[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/men-in-balaclavas-offer-soothing-prospect-of-war-2013052369728 ]Daily Mash synopsis[/url]
More credible than some of the reporting I've seen............
yes the one thing this situation does not need is a bunch of thugs showing "white Power" on the streets.
I wonder what the EDL think of the IRA or Catholic priests? Bet they think thats OK
Really? 😯
The first song in their repertoire is usually "no surrender". It's normally the second, third and fourth as well. The EDL are not renowned for complicated compositions.
Aren't they tied up with the UDL? That famous pro-catholic mens club?
Mincing around in funny masks shouldn't be much of a concern. It's not like they're blowing stuff up and kneecapping people. Extremest fail.
Probably not 🙄I wonder what the EDL think of the IRA or Catholic priests? Bet they think thats OK
Enlighten me?
The EDL in action...
"Fat Ninjas"
very good.
This is a brief synopsis of me learning a lesson.
Sas shoot ira in Gibraltar. Me jumping around like we had won the world cup.
Ira people get buried. Idiot throws hand grenade at the funeral.
People killed at funeral have a a procession.
2 squaddies end up stuck in procession.
Squaddies dragged from car and beaten to death.
A very clear line of events all linked.
You have to break the circle of violence.
As much as I'd like the 2 idiots from yesterday flayed alive ultimately it does no good.
Peace.
As much as I'd like the 2 idiots from yesterday flayed alive ultimately it does no good.
Indeed. The best thing we could do is collectively shrug, put them down as the lunatics they clearly are, and then studiously ignore them. No security crackdowns. No using it to further political agendas
I notice the security forces were straight on the bandwagon last night. Wasting no time in telling us that this demonstrates the essential need to monitor everyone's emails, mobile phones and social media use.
Erm... why exactly? I must have missed something but how would that have prevented what happened yesterday?
well said Gonzy. They were apparently heard to be shouting Allahu Akbar (God is Great). I guess this is why it's being presumed they are muslims.
i read that as well....however as sad and horrific as their actions may be the root cause of their actions need to found and stopped before more follow in their footsteps...it is all too easy nowadays for young muslims and non-muslims who convert to the religion to be radicalised with extremist views that have been twisted out of proportion and in no way whatsoever represent the tenets of Islam....
i have argued this with many learned muslims that what they preach is always their interpretation of the Quran and that it could easily be manipulated to represent the ideology of the individual rather that what is actually scripted in the Quran....hence what we are seeing today with the increase in extremism in our religion...
Indeed. The best thing we could do is collectively shrug, put them down as the lunatics they clearly are, and then studiously ignore them. No security crackdowns. No using it for your own political agendas
i agree binners...
highlighting what they have done only give more fuel to their cause...
however not highlighting their actions only leads us to think we are safe when we are clearly not...
the main reason is because the vast majority of muslims can read the Quran in arabic but would struggle to translate what they have read into their own language...they therefore rely on scholars to translate the scriptures, who are free to translate this into whatever context they please...yes you can buy a translated copy of the Quran nowadays...but who has translated this and what spin have they put on it?
as a mulsim it makes me sad to say this but this is the main reason we have these extremists in Islam...because they are left to preach about the religion as they see it and the rest of the muslim population blindly follow....
as a mulsim it makes me sad to say this but this is the main reason we have these extremists in Islam...because they are left to preach about the religion as they see it and the rest of the muslim population blindly follow....
I read a book ([url= http://www.amazon.co.uk/Al-Qaeda-True-Story-Radical-Islam/dp/0141031360 ]think it was this one[/url] ) about Al Qaeda and I seem to remember it echoed some of what you said, but also that the most extreme forms of Islam were massively funded and promoted by rich Saudis/the Saudi regime as a way of proving their Islamic credentials, despite being closely allied to the west and probably not very good Muslims.
They funded hundreds of schools, scholars, teaching materials, preachers etc all espousing a very extreme, violent form of Islam basically. And that certainly at the time this was the fastest-growing form of Islam and becoming quite dominant in many areas.
Dunno how true it is but the author seems to be generally well respected.
Whether they are representative of the Islamic faith or not is neither here nor there, most of the public understand that these extremist morons are in the minority and are not a true example of what ordinary muslims believe.
However, they did what they did in the name of Islam...albeit their twisted extreme version of Islam but Islam nonetheless.
This is the problem i have with all religions....it attracts scum like this who carry out their actions in the name of an outdated faith which has no place in a modern society.
I'm staggered that in the 21st century religion still causes such friction....people are feeble and disappointing, i'd hoped in these enlightened times this kind of thing wouldnt happen....the Westboro extreme christians in the US are an example also....
....i'd section them all under the mental health act and throw away the keys.
This is the problem i have with all religions....it attracts scum like this who carry out their actions in the name of an outdated faith which has no place in a modern society.
The trouble is; scum are scum and will behave as such. If it wasn't in the name of religion, they'd just find something else to misbehave under the banner of.
The two in question are likely not intelligent and have been indoctrinated by some pervert somewhere. It's these people we need to grip, and we need the help of non-radical muslims to do it. There will never be a shortage of feeble minds to convince.
If it wasn't in the name of religion, they'd just find something else to misbehave under the banner of.
Maybe they will, maybe they wont however a reading of the Koran hardly leaves them short of justification.
This is interesting: one of the men has been named as Michael Adebolajo. Michael is a Christian name and Adebolajo is Yoruba, from western Nigeria. Most Yorubas are Christians.
I think your playing fast and loose with the term "interesting"
It's interesting to me because he is either a deranged Christian or he is a deranged Christian who recently converted to Islam. If the latter, whoever influenced him has done a particularly effective job. Maybe they recognised that he was deranged and recruited him as cannon-fodder to the cause?
I didn't think of it as being about religion directly. It's about one group (Muslims) versus another (British soldiers) not along religious grounds but as revenge for perceived injustice. That injustice being killing other members of their group in wars in the Middle East.
You could just as easily replace 'Muslim' with say.. 'white', 'american', 'aristocrat', 'communist' or any nationality, and find plenty of similar events through history.
Well, you're right, it happened in a very public place but is it any worse than two white racists stabbing Stephen Lawrence with a broken bottle?
You could just as easily replace 'Muslim' with say.. 'white', 'american', 'aristocrat', 'communist' or any nationality, and find plenty of similar events through history.
You are right however few of those you named would find specific support for their actions written in a book that dictates how they live their life.
According to the news one of them is a UK born Christian of Nigerian descent who had converted to Islam.
You are right however few of those you named would find specific support for their actions written in a book that dictates how they live their life.
I'm not sure it matters if it comes from a religious text, a political manifesto, or ideas of race and origin. My point is that there are plenty of other secular motivations for terror and generally nasty behaviour.
My point is that there are plenty of other secular motivations for terror and generally nasty behaviour.
Its very important. Can you name me a secular text that has 1.8bm adherents that includes an extensive list of sections that would be classified as hate speech.
I'm not saying for one moment that there are not a lot of nasty people around and many dont need and motivation, secular or not to commit terrible crimes.
It's a bit rich to attack the media when we have 6 pages on a cycle forum devoted to the same subject. The only thing we have in common is that we are all ignorant of the facts in the case especially the background and motivation. But the media have minutes and inches to sell and stories to make interesting and people naturally want to talk about it. Bizarrely, googling the EDL and Woolwich last night led me to the Ipswich Town supporters club website!!
But nothing is really gained from is it terrorist or is it religion debates IMO apart from (potentially interesting) speculation. So it is reported that witnesses heard "Allah Akbar" - perhaps they misheard, perhaps the criminals were religiously motivated, perhaps they and the witnesses had simply watched too many episodes of Homeland? We simply don't know anything other than one person has been killed and his family and friends must be suffering greatly. Shouldn't it just be left there?
@ Grum - there may be an element of truth in that...the saudi royal family is a strong influence over religious affairs and as Mecca is located there and is the focal point of every muslim's prayers...what they influence has a knock on effect to the rest of the muslim world....its a known fact that they have been funding the production of the translated Quran...but like you said what most people dont realise is that this version of the Quran promotes their ideology of Wahhabiism...a sect of islam which openly promotes a hard line approach to the religion that borders on extremism....
as for the saudi royal family....they're just a bunch of hypocritical tosspots who have been seduced by money and power....and many other things they shouldnt be getting involved in...
@ wrecker - its true...if it isnt religion it would be something else they would hide behind...but in this case it is religion and more specifically islam....we are already struggling to distance ourselves from the perception that we are all extremists who like to wage jihads on anyone and everyone...the actions of the minority always have sever repercussions to the greater many...this is my chance to lay the boot in at those culprits who tarnish my faith so wrongly...
@ globalti - if this is the case regarding the name of one of the men, then it makes for interesting reading as it would definitely point to the fact that he has been converted and radicalised by someone who needs to be caught...however the name michael is also accepted as a muslim name as it was the name of one the the archangels and is spelt Mikail...but usually it is frowned upon to take the name of one of the angels in islam...but you're correct that whoever recruited them did so for that purpose that they were two nutcases of low intelligence who could easily be manipulated...
Can you name me a secular text that has 1.8bm adherents that includes an extensive list of sections that would be classified as hate speech.
bible's gotta be a contender surely..?
Wow Camerons speech on the news wasn't sitting on the fence, it was quite stern IMO. Well done.
bible's gotta be a contender surely..?
I was going to say that there's a lot of stuffs in the "good" book which must qualify....
bible's gotta be a contender surely..?
I dont think the bible could be termed "secular"
In the end let's not forget that, as somebody else posted recently on STW, this is all about whose imagined best friend is better than who else's imagined best friend.
Thought this might be of interest to some...
Too many titles handed the killers the megaphone they craved. Those who quietly reject the offer of hatred and division deserve to be heard too.
[url= http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/05/after-woolwich-how-media-got-it-wrong-and-how-public-can-get-it-right ]New Statesman article[/url]
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this is all about whose imagined best friend is better than who else's imagined best friend.
No, it's not.
Can you name me a secular text that has 1.8bm adherents that includes an extensive list of sections that would be classified as hate speech.
It is a text that can be used by some as justification for violence. There are many of those. And there is lots of justification for violence that's not written in big books.
I still think the fact that it's a religious text is a red herring.
It is a text that can be used by some as justification for violence. There are many of those. And there is lots of justification for violence that's not written in big books.
But thats just a rearrangement of some words. Can you answer the question?
[url= https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/941372_387384508046417_151942173_n.jp g" target="_blank">https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/941372_387384508046417_151942173_n.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
😆
Is that real? I'll happily submit to Aslan.
the EDL advocating the wearing of the burka...
[url= https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/164940_583482965006764_643108299_n.jp g" target="_blank">https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/164940_583482965006764_643108299_n.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
bunch of ------- (insert at your pleasure!!)
Is that real? I'll happily submit to Aslan.
looks like it been photoshopped, but its funny to think of them as a bunch of idiots....
EDIT: they are idiots!! 😯
have those fellas got their mums to sew EDL badges on or do the EDL actually produce and sell their own range of balaclavas?
But thats just a rearrangement of some words. Can you answer the question?
The answer to your question is 'no' but that doesn't help us much, because I don't think your question is a good one. Which is what I was trying to say.
It's an odd look. They must have a knitwear designer in their leadership I guess.
That Russell Howard did a brief sketch on 'em a while back.....
Unsurprisingly, most seem like that.
The really sad thing is, they seem to be getting some local support following this terrible incident by preying on the fears of gullible psychos.
preying on the fears of gullible psychos.
It happens on both sides then......
