[Closed] machete attack in woolwich london (bbc news atm)

Sounds pretty horrific from what they're saying on the news 😯

contentious i know but we shoot the culprits and then try to save their lives. yes i know its makes us as bad as them if we dont but stop pussy footing around when its clearly obvious whats happend

R4 are saying it was Islamic militants who attacked a soldier and decapitated him whilst shouting "Allah Akbar" or "god is greatest".

contentious i know but we shoot the culprits and then try to save their lives. yes i know its makes us as bad as them if we dont but stop pussy footing around when its clearly obvious whats happend

I wouldn't call that contentious

vertical climber - Member
contentious i know but we shoot the culprits and then try to save their lives. yes i know its makes us as bad as them if we dont but stop pussy footing around when its clearly obvious whats happend

But that's what makes us who we are, and is what in the end we fight for, if we lose that then "they" win.

It's for intelligence the dead can't tell you anything

There can be only one!

jesus I would never live in London.

contentious i know but we shoot the culprits and then try to save their lives. yes i know its makes us as bad as them if we dont but stop pussy footing around when its clearly obvious whats happend

Even if we still had the death penalty the decision to 'sentence' the criminals would be left to the courts and not the police.

As for being clearly obvious what happened. Do we know if they form a small part of a larger organisation, was it a random attack or planned, if planned are there likely to be more in the pipeline. The answers to these and many other questions will be easier to answer if the people that carried out the attack are still alive.

But that's what makes us who we are, and is what in the end we fight for, if we lose that then "they" win.

Any news on the deceased unit yet? Last i heard my old battalion was based there. Bloody awful though regardless.

Shoot to stop, not to kill. We are better than them. That said, if they die as a result of the reasonable and proportional force applied, meh.

Thoughts for those who have lost a loved one.

Shocking. Some of the footage they're showing on ITV isn't very appropriate for this time of night. They've just shown one of the suspects wielding a bloody machete talking to the camera.

I quite like the French approach to religion and the fruicakes that it attracts.

Early reports said the victim was wearing a 'Help For Heros' tee, and the assailants drove a car at him first, before going at him with the blades. The attack, as jon1973 says, was allegedly being filmed as it took place, then the Police shot them. They're currently undergoing hospital treatment.
I hope without anaesthetic.

Genuine non trolling question. What is it that defines this as a terrorist attack rather than a murder?

What is it that defines as a terrorist attack rather than a murder?

I was interested in this. Some of the footage I've just seem of the suspect with the machete (now with audio and his face visible) seems to suggest it was some sort of anti-government 'protest'.

RIP gunner. Awful thing.
Tragically, nobbers like the BNP and EDL will probably benefit from this.

Genuine non trolling question. What is it that defines this as a terrorist attack rather than a murder?

It appears they filmed (and therefore planned to broadcast) the attack, and it was performed in broad daylight, and seemingly with no attempt to flee the scene - as they were intercepted by the police yards from the scene. That would be done with a view to spreading fear. Its (seemingly) a terror attack [i]and[/i] a murder in the sense that you could intend to acheive the same or similar terror without actually murdering anyone.

If you look at the previous IRA campaigns attacks were often accompanied by last minute warnings, acheiving the terror without necessarily the murder, even though the attacks were potentially deadly

Sobering reading; if a slightly abrasive vernacular. From liveleak.

May 22st, 2013 -PERSON DEAD WITHOUT A HEAD CONFIRMED FOR BRITISH SOLIDER. TWO SOMALIANS CRITICALLY INJURED.

One man is reported dead and two others injured amid reports of a shooting incident close to the Royal Artillery Barracks in Woolwich this afternoon.One witness reported seeing a man beheaded in the street in an attack by two men.

The report also said that police officers opened fire after the attack in John Wilson Street in Woolwich.

There were reports that shots were fired after an apparent sword attack near the army base.

Pictures posted on Twitter appear to show two men lying on the road in Woolwich.

The air ambulance landed at the scene and paramedics treated victims in the street.

David Dixon, the head of Mulgrave Primary School, told the BBC that he walked out of the school gates and saw a body lying in the street. "We shut all the gates and made sure all the children were inside," he said.

Mr Dixon also confirmed hearing gunshots.

The Metropolitan police would only say officers had been called to reports of ‘an assault’ on John Wilson Street.

Wellington Street has been sealed off and an air ambulance has arrived on the scene.

John Wilson Street is currently shut in both directions between Artillery Place and New Ferry Approach.

Twitter user Boya Dee writes an account of the incident online. These details have not yet been verified.

He wrote: 'Ohhhhh myyyy God!!!! I just see a man with his head chopped off right in front of my eyes!

'Oh my God!!!! The way Feds took them out!!! It was a female police officer she come out the whip and just started bussssin shots!!

'Mate ive seen alot of s im my time but that has to rank sumwhere in the top 3. I couldnt believe my eyes. That was some movie s.'

The two black bredas run this white guy over over then hop out the car and start chopping mans head off with machete!!

'People were asking whyyy whyyy they were just saying we've had enough! They looked like they were on sutn! Then they start waving a recolver

'Then boydem turn up!! Woolwich feds didnt want it... They had to wait for armed response.. Helicopters everyting...

'Then thats how u know they were on sutn cos they actually went for armed feds with just two machete and an old rusty lookin revolver

'The first guy goes for the female fed with the machete and she not even ramping she took man out like robocop never seen nutn like it

'Then the next breda try buss off the rusty 45 and it just backfires and blows mans finger clean off... Feds didnt pet to just take him out!!

RIP to the poor chap

Bloody animals!!

jesus I would never live in London

RIP gunner. Awful thing.
Tragically, nobbers like the BNP and EDL will probably benefit from this.

indeed, this will ramp up attacks on those who are perceived as 'alien'-- pretty sure the perpetrators wouldn't give a hoot about that 🙁

'Mate ive seen alot of s im my time but that has to rank sumwhere in the top 3. I couldnt believe my eyes. That was some movie s.'

What the **** has this person seen that is worse/stranger than some poor bloke being decapitated in the street then the perpetrators being shot by police?

what makes you think your chances of succumbing to a machete attack are less in any other conurbation?

Pretty sure the chances are statistically almost zero in any UK city as you suggest (including London). Sadly you don't want to be the "almost"

wrecker - Member
RIP gunner. Awful thing.
Tragically, nobbers like the BNP and EDL will probably benefit from this.
POSTED 7 MINUTES AGO

Rainbow - member
RIP to the poor chap, but it make you wonder what this country is going to turn out, it's Broken Britain now!
Time to close the border gates and stop these people who hate English people and our culture in here.
Bloody animals!!

Edit; ninja edit fail

Lots of similar stuff has happened before, machete attacks, people being deliberately targeted, persons being shot on the street by the police, sometimes as innocents.

Massive overhyping by the media again.

Just perhaps some of the interviewed people could be assesed before theyre put live on tv.

But condolances to the dead mans family,and freinds and do they really need this broadcast live.

a very large minority in this country would be well advised to get and keep off the streets tonight.

a very large minority in this country would be well advised to get and keep off the streets tonight.

Who, and why?

RIP to the poor guy, what an awful way to go. Condolences to his family.

Who, and why?

charity chuggers? people carrying guns and machetes? people who can't engage their brains when using the internet after reading a sensational news item?

a very large minority in this country would be well advised to get and keep off the streets tonight.

Given the prior for morons beating up people nothing to do with a specific minority (not saying it was justified just it was their reason) I'm not sure I'd put bets on anyone bent on "revenge" against "them" doing anything other than being thugs. They'd be thugs anyway, just tonight they're pretending they have a reason for their **** - ish behaviour

Reports of controlled explosion due to take place soon on "suspect package" according to C4 news and other media sources.

Makes me feel sad for his family, fellow soldiers and friends 🙁

I don't know what disturbs me more, this attack or the reaction it has caused among my "friends" on faceplantbook 😕

You don't mean left handers do you....they are a minority and there is a awful lot of them.
I know a few and I'm worried now

charity chuggers? people carrying guns and machetes?

Chuggers, I'd agree with you on.

people who can't engage their brains when using the internet after reading a sensational news item?

That would be fantastic. The streets would be half empty. Could we not impose such restrictions permanently?

v8ninety - Member

Point scoring at its worst.

RIP the victim to this horrific attack

Rip to that chap, terrible. And yes, this isn't only in London this happens

soobalias - Member
a very large minority in this country would be well advised to get and keep off the streets tonight.

Who, and why?

do you really have to ask?

I do wonder about terrorism and murder and war, on the day they announce that a man is to be charged with Horseguards. Was the IRA a war for freedom or terrorism?

As they say the winners write the history books.

Who, and why?

I expect he means anyone that's looks like they may appear to be a muslim. There's a fair chance of some equally deranged white supremacist nut job going out looking for revenge.

do you really have to ask?

Not really. I'd just like soobalias to justify their statement.

I expect he means anyone that's looks like they may appear to be a muslim. There's a fair chance of some equally deranged white supremacist nut job going out looking for revenge.

If that is the case, then should the police and appropriate agencies not be mobilised to help protect people within our nation, from hate crime?

Haven't "certain groups" been threatening to do this for some time? Very sad that such nut jobs live freely in this country, and most probably fully supported by "the system" too.

One of the most ignorant things you could have said, there's laws against inciting a riot you fool.

depends on the posters meaning, it could be that, or it could be a simple statement that there are people in this country who would use an incident like this to go 'packi bashing' and that rightly or wrongly there are times when keeping you head down makes sense.

Ultimately there will be one loser. Muslims. Really sad that a whacky minority will alienate and if these attacks become more frequent worse for the good people who believe in Islam.

R.I.P.

rightly or wrongly there are times when keeping you head down makes sense.

So, all brown people should stay indoors then? Because there may be a few nutters out there intent on causing harm?

Maybe we should discharge all military personnel from service immediately then, following that logic. As they are all obviously at risk.

Ultimately there will be one loser. Muslims. Really sad that a whacky minority will alienate and if these attacks become more frequent worse for the good people who believe in Islam.

I think it's wrong to label the attacks as by 'Islamists', as is being reported on the news from Whitehall. This itself is inflamatory and sure to ignite fear and hatred.

Well said Hora

Oh shit. I look a bit swarthy. And I've got a beard. Best cancel the pub tonight then.

Well said Hora from me too.

What evidence is there to even suggest that the attackers were muslim..?

The bloke on the ITV clip gives no indication that the attack was a terrorist act or anything to do with religion..
He bangs on about violence in his home country a bit, but the way he speaks, sounding more like a south London hoodie than anything else, the motivation could be anything from a drug debt, to a drunken argument or because someone knocked his underaged sister up..

Sloppy and inflammatory reporting [i]as usual[/i] unless I'm missing some crucial point here..

a brutal day for sure though.. thoughts go out to all the families

[url= http://beforeitsnews.com/eu/2013/05/beheading-in-london-graphic-pictures-soldier-behead-attackers-shot-2522000.html ]graphic video content[/url]

Hora is very much on the money there.

who:
anyone who could be perceived as a victim, (thugs prey on the weak) anyone with brown skin (i know thats wide, so are racial prejudices), anyone who would stand by the comment 'allah akbar' basically anyone who can be linked to the widely reported status of the attackers

why:
because this horrific event will just ratchet up the tension which already exists widely across the country and nobody will be surprised to hear of 'revenge' attacks taking place

to try to be clear, im not telling anyone to stay indoors. Just like i wont think twice about wearing my help for heroes t-shirt...

So, all brown people should stay indoors then?

imo no, but to tweak the question, are there areas of the town in which you live that have a reputation? would you go out of your way to go there just because you are allowed to? As i said there is a proportion of the population looking for trouble, there always is. I can remember someone i worked with saying that in the 70's they would go out for a night in Glasgow and anyone who they considered a Celtic supporter was fair game. In his words he then joined the Paras because you could legally beat the crap out of someone.

Many reports of the attackers shouting Allah Akbar.

very well put hora,

much better than i managed.

Fair comment yunki, but I've a feeling you'll be proved wrong.

to try to be clear, im not telling anyone to stay indoors.

Forgive my obvious confusion, then.

a very large minority in this country would be well advised to get and keep off the streets tonight.

?

Can we stop the silly bickering please.

Maybe we should discharge all military personnel from service immediately then, following that logic. As they are all obviously at risk

or just remind themselves of the risks and avoid any unnecessary ones.

project - Member
Lots of similar stuff has happened before, machete attacks, people being deliberately targeted, persons being shot on the street by the police, sometimes as innocents.

Massive overhyping by the.

Firstly, please give examples of public beheadings of military (or any other) persons in the UK with deliberate focus on "sending a message".

Secondly, having just left a couple of people who live in the tower block you will have seen on the TV, I'd suggest you are wrong with this 'over hyping' - it took over 20 minutes for armed police to turn up so the perpetrators spent some considerable time finishing their work.

well advised
must

different see.

Now Nigel Farage is calling for calm...

I expect he means anyone that's looks like they may appear to be a muslim.

It is very sad, and the circumstances are horrendous but it's not likely to have been the only murder in the UK today.

OTOH that twitter account is fantastic.

Drac - Moderator

Can we stop the silly bickering please.

Evidence suggests not.

The murderers should be punished according to Vald III Dracula rules ...

The video is truly shocking, I'm a Muslim and genuinely ashamed of this individuals action. He absolutely does not represent Islam in any form.

Firstly, please give examples of public beheadings of military (or any other) persons in the UK with deliberate focus on "sending a message".

PC Keith Blakelock, Broadwater Farm riots.

Or a bloody close effort.

Whilst I agree with Hora's and other's views I think the biggest loosers are the victim's family and friends tonight. I think it's about time we stop arguing when facts aren't clear and respect the poor chap.

If you feel the need to discuss the matter do it tomorrow when the details are clearer.

RIP

Just heard a news reporter on the radio say 'Aloo Akbar'. Sounds like a tasty potato dish down the local Indian takeaway place.

Not exactly the typical image of a Muslim or for that matter recent immigrants. The guy apologises for women seeing his actions but says women in his own land have to see such acts. All in a south london accent.

One mixed up boy, I can't help wondering if it will turn out there's someone been whispering in his ear . S,pose its all part of the journey but not easy for a lot of people to accept.

20 mins for an ARV to arrive is about right . I am going to guess the 999 police line was flooded with multiple similtaneous calls about a knife and gun attack.
Any SO will not send out GP to deal with this sort of incident.

Horrendous attack . I saw some stomach churning stuff in Woking on 7/7 and kept my cool but seeing religous fanatics celebrating this sort of incident makes me angry.

My son goes to cadets (except when he's revising for AS exams) and we always used to think they were being a bit excessive insisting that he's not allowed to wear any kind of identifiying military kit when travelling to/from cadet events on public transport. Seems not. EDIT: just walking out of barracks is enough.

Very sad and my thoughts go to the family of this young man, probably not much older than my own boy 🙁

Mashiehood, well put, very well put.

it took over 20 minutes for armed police to turn up so the perpetrators spent some considerable time finishing their work.

serious questions must be asked of hogan howe, police commisioner, on why such a delay, when so much money is wasted each day on armed guards for politicians, the royal family and Julian assange, when the public who pay his wages are left to the mercy of 2 nutters with sharp knives.

The means may be more gruesome (if you consider being blown apart by a bomb any less gruesome) but is it any different to what the IRA used to do?

Reports that the EDL are going to be in woolwich tonight. 🙄

The EDL have just said that they are going to "make their presence felt" in the area tonight. Idiots.

IIRC armed forces (assume this includes cadets) were required not to wear uniforms when the IRA were active back in the late 70s for fear of them being targeted.

Edited due to others posting the same thing within a minute of me.

Indeed project and the shocking thing is that there appeared to be no police even near by keeping the public away, suprised no people took actions themselves.

Invariably, the IRA's aim was to induce terror by fear, not by actual death. Hence the "coded warnings" etc. It was more about terrorising by fear in many cases. Yes, there were myriad deaths and killings, but for the most part, the motivation was to scare the crap out of the "opposition". I grew up checking the car for bombs before any journey, etc. One could say that the tactic of fear worked, up to a point. Never stopped me, or my family, from carrying on our normal life, however.

Equally, the IRA would not want to be seen to do it. Being photographed would shatter the illusion of terror.

There is a new genre of terrorist, driven by getting themselves in the media, focussed on generating online terror. Far more scary, far more deadly. Far harder to deal with.