[Closed] Lyme Disease - explosion of cases in the US

Bloody nuisance here in the South Downs too right now. Lots of us are pulling ticks and my lad is currently on antibiotics for a bite that turned into a bullseye rash.

As I understand, Sweden and Czech have a vaccine. Surely this has to be a better route than the ongoing cost and disruption of folk getting sick and needing treatment. The worry of antibiotic resistance too must be an issue. I note my lad is getting through 5 bottles of antibiotics right now.

One small reason why I'm glad my fitness comes from road cycling.

Chances of being seriously injured in a road incident vs. acquiring something particularly nasty from a tick?

A meaningful comparison because no one ever got seriously injured in a mountain bike accident 🙄

Globalti said "one small reason" so clearly has a sense of perspective which you missed - Lyme is an additional worry for off roaders that isn't a factor on road. I lived in NE USA in the late 90s and was always outdoors either MTB or climbing, they were zealots when it came to checking for ticks after rides. When I moved back to UK in '99 there was a huge lack of awareness here.

Its OK - tom will be along shortly to tell you its all in your imagination / a con by doctors trying to empty your pockets

Globalti said "one small reason"

Yes, he did. One big reason though, would be that it's dull as ****. 😆

yeah I get all my news from rollingstone site. It tells the facts others ignore.

As I understand, Sweden and Czech have a vaccine. Surely this has to be a better route than the ongoing cost and disruption of folk getting sick and needing treatment. The worry of antibiotic resistance too must be an issue. I note my lad is getting through 5 bottles of antibiotics right now.

Agree it would be good to have a vaccine available for those working outdoors, pets etc - I believe the original lymerix vaccine was aimed here. There was apparently little demand at the time, though, and then a collection of grasping parasites brought a class-action lawsuit against the manufacturer and that was that.

Yeah, vaccine for those who spend a lot of time outdoors in high risk areas only. Obviously pointless for huge swathes of the population and country.

I was unaware of lymerix history. Disappointing.

Is it a real explosion of cases,or an explosion of diagnoses by financially motivated American doctors?

Is it a real explosion of cases,or an explosion of diagnoses by financially motivated American doctors?

Do you know what it's like to have worsening health, struggle to ride a bike, to go back and forth to NHS doctors with a long list of symptoms, to be told by an NHS consultant that he "wasn't concerned by my symptoms". WTAF?

What would YOU do?

yeah I get all my news from rollingstone site. It tells the facts others ignore.

BBC gets its medical and science news from here:

http://www.sciencemediacentre.org/

Funding from Pharma:

http://www.sciencemediacentre.org/about-us/funding/

See what Wiki has to say:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_Media_Centre

I struggle to see the motivation for the "big pharma" conspiracy. Why on earth wouldn't they sell a drug to combat something if they thought they could get away with it?! They are supposed to be money grabbing bastards!

I am not saying that Lyme disease does not exist,or that it is not a debilitating disease,but I am deeply cynical about the doctors who suddenly start diagnosing it,as I doubt that there has been an enormous increase in the tick population,or in the number of people entering tick infested areas.This is of course an opinion,so don't waste a "cite"

Obviously this is only my observation, but I have pulled more ticks from myself, family and pets this year so far than any other year to date. I also have seen far more deer per ride than any other year so far. Again, only an observation, so not to be extrapolated, but from my own pow, and in my day to day life, there are more ticks.

@Yak best of luck to your son.

Maybe there has been a big increase in the proportion of ticks carrying it ? When we lived in New Jersey in the late 1980's our neighbours told us not to let our kids run around in the garden due to Lyme. It's a dicease we have ignored in the UK but is well established elsewhere.

I'm constantly pulling ticks off my legs from having to bash my way through overgrown bridleways here in North Dorset. But that's ok though as the local council prefer clearing pointless sections of road verge so the drivers can admire the cut verge and mashed up litter.

Count zero. I get them from multiple sources and check who wrote it. I certainly wouldn't take articles from that site as fact. Or any site TBH inc BBC etc. I also get info from NHS pages who's judgement I think, believe, is produced by medically qualified people.

I'd suggest this site be included with the ones you quote. I'd agree all those aren't reliable. So why assume this source is? It' seems to be primarily a music site?

I am not saying that Lyme disease does not exist,or that it is not a debilitating disease,but I am deeply cynical about the doctors who suddenly start diagnosing it,as I doubt that there has been an enormous increase in the tick population,or in the number of people entering tick infested areas.This is of course an opinion,so don't waste a "cite"

Rising deer populations?

Anecdotal, but I've lost count of the number of people I've heard say "never seen on until a few years ago and now remove them regularly"

And I wouldn't dismiss diagnosis being wrong/tricky either. The tests haven't been great.

The more you search for something on the Internet the IP of the search engine and Facebook believe your looking for more of the same information and like minded groups. Your then into confirmation bias.

Your seeing more news, information, data or groups on Lyme? Maybe it's partly caused by confirmation bias. I'm not suggesting it doesn't exist. I've certainly been bitten many times as has my cat. Rabbits here seem to be the cause.

I don't think the issue here is whether Lyme disease exists or not or even if it's more prevalent.

It's whether there is Lyme disease (easily diagnosed and treated), Chronic Lyme disease (disputed) and Neurological Lyme (I think I saw that, might just be another name for Chronic?).

The Rolling Stone article has plenty of content from the CDC questioning Chronic Lyme's existence. The celebrity endorsement of the condition reminds me of the celebs that jumped on the Autism from Vaccines bandwagon.

This is of course an opinion,so don't waste a "cite"

Don't worry your opinion certainly doesn't carry any sense of any actual fact or understanding

Your seeing more news, information, data or groups on Lyme?

Not 100% you're responding to me, but just in case.

This is in person, fell runners being the group in particular. People that'd run for years without so much as a nibble. There could be scope for them just not noticing and ticks getting knocked off by towelling mud off or scrubbed of in the shower.

From my experience certain areas have a lot ticks. On the farm and when I was mountain marathoner it seemed to be mainly dependent on rabbit population their infested with them sometimes. I suspect the little blighters increase depending on climate and hosts. It doesn't surprise me thst incidents increase or decrease. Certainly a lot more people running these days

I am not saying that Lyme disease does not exist,or that it is not a debilitating disease,but I am deeply cynical about the doctors who suddenly start diagnosing it,as I doubt that there has been an enormous increase in the tick population,or in the number of people entering tick infested areas.This is of course an opinion,so don't waste a "cite"

I understand that some people had been diagnosed with ME, CFS, Fibromyalgia, Somatoform Disorder, Depression etc and following testing were eventually diagnosed with Lyme. Presumably there will not be any figures available.

The US medical system is different and there are plenty of 'functional medicine' doctors who have a huge amount of broad-based knowledge meaning they can unravel a patient's medical history and know what to do with their findings.

I struggle to see the motivation for the "big pharma" conspiracy. Why on earth wouldn't they sell a drug to combat something if they thought they could get away with it?! They are supposed to be money grabbing bastards!

In the context of a single patient: sell one drug to deal with one illness; or sell dozens of drugs, potentially for the lifetime of the patient, treating symptoms of countless misdiagnosed ailments. Expand that into the context of a nationa/international market*. If you were in the business of selling pharmaceuticals, which option would you prefer?

*estimated 300,000 new cases in the USA annually, the majority of which are currently misdiagnosed. Think about how many 'treatments' are being sold.

as I doubt that there has been an enormous increase in the tick population,or in the number of people entering tick infested areas.This is of course an opinion,so don't waste a "cite"

How does one form an 'opinion' on tick populations? I would be more inclined to research and 'cite', so as not to waste an opinion.

ymmv, but data is surely useful when forming opinions?

In recent years, ticks and the diseases they carry have become a rapidly growing problem across the UK.1, 3 In fact, in Great Britain the distribution of ticks is estimated to have expanded by 17% in the last ten years, and the abundance of ticks have increased at 73% of the locations surveyed

http://www.bigtickproject.co.uk/ticks-in-the-uk/?gclid=CLWOmsD40NQCFaa87QodkDoL_Q

Climate change being global, I would suspect parts of the US to be experiencing similar increases?

As a local anecdote a hard winter that comes on quickly is "good" for ticks. One of those horrible wet grey drizzly ones is "bad" for ticks.

Again, anecdotally, in the 15 years i've been somewhere with proper winters, those years it's got cold really quickly and stayed cold have always seen any pets we've had coming home in the spring with (sometimes) a dozen ticks a day. Usually following on from 4 months with none at all.

Horrible wet drizzly winters where the temperature is all over the place, we'll just keep getting the odd tick all winter with a slight upturn in the spring, maybe half a dozen a week.

The vaccine for tick borne encephalitis is available freely, and recommended for people living in the countryside, or who spend significant time there.

The vaccine for lyme disease isn't. BUT the awareness of it seems to be high, and most GPs/Nurses will see you immediately if you think you've got it. We've been three times in the last 15 odd years. Always been seen immediately and had drugs within the hour.

I'm not sure if this site has been highlighted on here before but it seems to have a lot of relevant info - http://www.bada-uk.org

I'm based in Surrey and I'm finding a lot of ticks on me and my dog this year. In certain areas it's not unusual to knock 5 or 6 ticks off my dog when we stick to paths and don't venture into the undergrowth. Speaking to other dog walkers and they are experiencing the same.

Looks like they're a problem in Boston too - http://www.fox25boston.com/news/theyre-back-number-of-potentially-dangerous-ticks-high-across-new-england/536510204

I've posted this link before, research carried out in Salisbury, Wiltshire.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/311862697_Ticks_and_Borrelia_in_urban_and_peri-urban_green_space_habitats_in_a_city_in_southern_England

I currently work for the forestry commission and there's a lot about Lyme on the intranet as so many staff work outside and can contract it, some really horrendous long term undiagnosed cases.

How does one form an 'opinion' on tick populations? I would be more inclined to research and 'cite', so as not to waste an opinion.

Don't forget brexit Britain has had enough of experts and scientific facts!

globalti - Member 
One small reason why I'm glad my fitness comes from road cycling.

Ridden off road for some 10 years on a regular basis. Never seen one tick, and I've been in plenty of undergrowth.

Not saying it doesn't happen and I hear about it a fair bit around Surrey, though mostly from dog walkers as dogs seem to be more of a magnet for them. It's just I have more risk of injury from crashing (as have done many times) than getting a tick bite.

I am however aware of them and what to do to deal with them. Though I probably should carry a removal tool. My intent if I ever get one is to try and bag it, and if I get symptoms, I'm heading to the doctor with the tick and armed with the leaflet of information to convince them it's a concern.

The few times I do ride on the road is mostly not through choice and I fear for my life when I do. Ticks are least of my worries really when riding bikes. The main problem though with ticks is when doctors ignore your concerns due to lack of awareness.

When i got bitten, i developed the classic rash and numerous other symptoms. Blood tests in the initial stages are known to be pretty poor (cant remember the exact figures, but its circa 75% inaccurate). I got put on antibiotics which resolved the symptoms, but at the follow up visit, i was told because the blood test was negative, it wouldnt be reported as a case of lymes.

Obviously decisions about the spread/treatment of lymes would be based on this data and reporting methodology....

I've posted this a couple of times before but it is well worth repeating.

http://scotland.forestry.gov.uk/activities/walking/check-for-ticks

[b]Lyme disease awareness packs for schools and children[/b]

The charity LymeDiseaseUK have created awareness packs specifically designed for children of different ages. More info here:

http://lymediseaseuk.com/2017/06/22/school-pack/

North yorkshire seems light on ticks this year however i assume the monumental levels of horse flys have killed all the ticks.

I'm sorry,I didn't realise that anecdotes are more authorative than opinion.Personally,I've never seen a tick in Yorkshire,but I didn't mention that,coz I didn't think it was important.

Only anecdontal but across a number of us. For 45 years I have walked in the highlands - some years more than others. I got a tick in 1976, didn't get another until the mid 90s, get a fair few now. One trip between 4 of us in one day we had approaching 100 ticks.

I am in no doubt that more ticks are around than there used to be and its proven that a greater % of ticks carry lyme

I think there are multiple factors for the increased number of ticks but it seems F&M was a part of it. sheep were not moved around so were not dipped - so allowing tick populations to increase and become endemic and global warming might have some effect

I also think increased awareness means more people find themandmore people report tick bites to their GP

It's curious how the ticks get established in certain areas of the UK but are absent from others. Is it just related to the deer population?
I've never seen one in 5 years riding the dark Peak, and I know riders who've ridden the arse out of the place for 20 yrs plus say the same. But a family holiday camping in Exmoor and it's a cert that one of us will pick up a tick, even just there for a few days.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10419763

A decline in the sheep industry has led to an increase in harmful ticks, the National Farmers' Union of Scotland (NFUS) has warned.
Lyme disease, an infection that can cause arthritis if untreated, can be transmitted to humans through a tick bite.
The NFUS said sheep act as a "mop" as ticks attach themselves to the animals as they graze.
Sheep also keep down long grass which ticks use to reach anything passing by.

That's a 2010 article but it still seems relevant.

I'm sorry,I didn't realise that anecdotes are more authorative than opinion.

No one suggested that they were.

Good [b]data[/b] always beats either. Though at a pinch - if data for (let's say) a tick population had to be built from samples of either:

A. Anecdotes
or
B. Random opinions

Which would you choose?