Presumably as everything is bar coded and scanned they know this from stock control anyway?
Presumably the clubcard gives them that extra level of detail. The (perhaps apocryphal) story I heard was that in late night opening Tesco they'd put beer next to Pampers on the end of isles The theory was that they'd noticed that it's young men buying nappies at night (through tracking clubcards) as they've been sent out by their partners...So offer them beers at the same time. Apparently worked. Dunno, maybe urban legend.
[i]Presumably the clubcard gives them that extra level of detail. The (perhaps apocryphal) story I heard was that in late night opening Tesco they’d put beer next to Pampers on the end of isles The theory was that they’d noticed that it’s young men buying nappies at night (through tracking clubcards) as they’ve been sent out by their partners…So offer them beers at the same time. Apparently worked. Dunno, maybe urban legend.[/i]
Have I presented to you? I used to use that lots in the past while explaining that it was probably a myth but helped people understand how data mining and slice and dice might actually work.
Dunne's (major supermarket chain) in Ireland has one - every time you spend €25 you get a voucher for €5 off your next €25 shop, or over €50 €10 off your next €50. Crucially, they have a validity period (basically "from tomorrow until next Sunday"), so it locks you in to shopping within that period, and gives you a clear 'discount' for doing so.
Even though you know Tesco is cheaper for most products (and has a wider range), it's tough to tear yourself away from that really obvious loyalty benefit.
Also, Canadians have traditionally been effing mad for loyalty programs; both the meta-loyalty programs (Air Miles and Aeroplan (v similar but Air Canada specific) points would be applied to particular products, like 'buy this this week and get a bonus 10 air miles') and the store-specific such as President's Choice. It looks like loyalty to them is dropping among younger shoppers, but no indication that decreased loyalty will lead to the big store brands actually competing on price.
Or does that burst the reality bubble and make you feel a bit uncomfortable?
No, shops have been doing that for decades. Loyalty cards may give more details but they’re there to entice people back based on offers and shopping habits. Not much different to the huge discounts on certain products, such as Bailey’s at Christmas it’s about pulling in customers.
<em class="bbcode-em">Dunno, maybe urban legend.
The beer and diapers story - explained here and yes, largely a myth; interesting that it's become Tesco rather than Walmart over the many retellings.
Waitrose's loyalty card has introduced an incentive scheme so complicated and difficult to use that we shop there less as a result. When we tried to explain that to them they weren't interested as their loyalty scheme seems to be run by kids who think customer digital engagement with their web presence is more important than selling things. I suspect that will not go well.
Edit: what on earth has gone wrong with this forum software - where did that em class=... stuff come from?
Or does that burst the reality bubble and make you feel a bit uncomfortable?
tbh, if I'd ever read any small print on any loyalty card sign up that is exactly what I'd expect it to say. Doesn't it?
But as said by someone further up the thread - from a data mining perspective, are they really needed anymore? Their own till receipts she what sells with what, where and when. As pretty every transaction is now electronic and most people will use the same payment method time after time you can track that payment methods purchasing history and tie together the till receipts. And then those of us who use delivery or click and collect have a fully fledged account. They know when we assemble the shop, how frequently we add or subtract before the deadline and when are our favourite delivery slots.
Actually, it's the delivery side of things that has kept me loyal to tesco not a loyalty card. Since I moved a couple of years ago tesco is no longer my closest shop. But 'my favourites' etc are well developed and I know my way around the site so my sofa grocery shopping is a slick operation and I cba to start again with Sainsburys.
I work for an organisation that 'owns' one of the largest, if not the largest Loyalty Card in the UK - the internal 'messages' I see are telling us that we see them (and the data collected) is very important, to us 🙂
Also it's worth pointing out that often it's the poorest in society that are the most exposed to data mining. Purchase tracking and loyalty cards are strongly associated with price differentials, the cost of not being tracked or not having a loyalty card can be as much as £30 on a weekly shop.
Being able to determine whether a company gets data from you; like a lot of things, is now a measure of your relative wealth.
A side note - I see that Tesco now do many discounted items that are now 'clubcard price' where they might have been previously just discounted. So if you rocked up without your clubcard (or you were not a tesco frequent flyer and didn't have one) you have to pay the full price. I'de be interested to know if this works. Is the discounted price a loss leader or is there still a profit to made on the discounted price (I'd imagine they lean very heavily on the supplier to get the product at a discounted rate to put on promotion so the 'loss' is shared down the supply chain, not just be the retailer)?
I know the way I'm wired - if I know that the product could be bought at a discount but can't be by me, I see the higher price as a supplement I'm being asked to pay and would refuse to purchase it. It's the same with companies like Alpkit - I know they do 15-20% discounts across the whole range or a subset of products a few times a year. I now see that reduced price as the standard price, and the price the rest of the year as an enhanced price to be avoided at all costs unless truly desperate. I'm currently refusing to buy a One Up tool set for the same reason, because I missed the discount week. If the discount week had not happened I'd be a happy punter paying the full price. It would be interesting to know if the profit margin on the extra impulse purchases at a discounted price balance out against the comungenes like me who alter their purchase history in a negative way.
Tesco Clubcard through our credit card with them, but very rarely shop there now!
Lidl plus card is pretty good, 2, 5 & 10 pound of your shopping after spending 50,100 & 200 with them.
So that 17 quid is pretty much a weekly shop in Lidl.
I refuse to shop at Tesco now due to their loyalty card pricing.
They've just closed the one nearest to me, so I no longer have to worry about that! Was very irritating though and put me off using it.
It would be interesting to know if the profit margin on the extra impulse purchases at a discounted price balance out against the comungenes like me
(disclaimer, I know nothing about how Alpkit arranges it's finances) I wouldn't have thought that forecast EBITDA is based of full RRP of products.
No, shops have been doing that for decades. Loyalty cards may give more details but they’re there to
entice people back based on offers and shopping habitsmanipulate shoppers into spending more.
IFTFY! Its OK though, because just like TJ refusing to believe advertising works on him, we are all smarter than the data minining systems used by the supermarkets and we only ever use the scheme's/vouchers/discounts when they are in OUR best interests not the shops. Don't we?
But as said by someone further up the thread – from a data mining perspective, are they really needed anymore? Their own till receipts she what sells with what, where and when. As pretty every transaction is now electronic and most people will use the same payment method time after time you can track that payment methods purchasing history and tie together the till receipts. And then those of us who use delivery or click and collect have a fully fledged account. They know when we assemble the shop, how frequently we add or subtract before the deadline and when are our favourite delivery slots.
And yet, all the supermarkets continue to run these schemes at considerable expense. They aren't stupid - either they aren't able to access the data you think they can from your card payment (and if not why have gov or visa/mastercard etc stopped them? - to protect you!) OR the loyalty card lets them track even more information. e.g. loyalty cards can be linked within a household? what do you not buy on line (if people always forget X, then you want to promote X not just to those who's last minute shop is yours, but to the people who order on line from you but shop in person at a competitor)? Its not just about the aggregate data though its about using that data to manipulate you at an individual level - your vouchers/offers are personalised to you. How would they get those deals to "me" if they didn't have a direct relationship only via my payment card.
But ‘my favourites’ etc are well developed and I know my way around the site so my sofa grocery shopping is a slick operation and I cba to start again with Sainsburys.
If sainsbo's etc were smart they'd develop a tool to go and scrape that information for you and populate their favourites to get you started!
@convert yes waiting for something appearing in a sale is sensible, especially a big purchase.
@Poly ya that’s right you’ve just reworded what I’ve said. Well done.
Ironically TJ’s posting history on here probably gives away far more than a club card could.
Just for total disclosure, I am preparing a presentation on peoples views on loyalty cards and discount schemes and I needed some "Voices of the People" type perspective. I will not be using any names/usernames and very little in terms of direct quotes, but rather using this thread as a source of sentiment regarding data awareness and acceptance of this among consumers.
Used to get stamps for Free Burrito at Mission Burrito.
Works well for them as they can have a higher visitor price(its in Bath a tourist honeypot trap) and still have regular local customers.
mmm the veggie burritos with the hottest sauce are the biz, i prefer them over the meat.
@convert yes waiting for something appearing in a sale is sensible, especially a big purchase.
I guess it is a language thing maybe, but with Alpkit I don't actually see it as the sale price anymore - just the standard price. With the price the rest of the year as a supplement. Maybe it's something specific to Alpkit's way of working. I see a sale as something that gets rid of end of lines and over stocked unpopular products etc - you might get lucky and the thing you want is in the sale and in your size, or you might not. There is an element of perceived luck. With Alpkit you can 100% guarantee the thing you are after will be discounted at various times of year.
Is the discounted price a loss leader or is there still a profit to made on the discounted price (I’d imagine they lean very heavily on the supplier to get the product at a discounted rate to put on promotion so the ‘loss’ is shared down the supply chain, not just be the retailer)?
Be under no illusions, it will be almost unheard of for Tesco to have a loss leader. Their buyers pass that pain all back down the supply chain. Do you want the product in a better place on the shelf? well you need to discount. Do you want it in more stores? well you need to discount. Do you want your version of the product to be cheaper that the competitor? good, we have a special discount you can offer our loyalty card holders... etc.
I know the way I’m wired – if I know that the product could be bought at a discount but can’t be by me, I see the higher price as a supplement I’m being asked to pay and would refuse to purchase it.
Tesco shopping is not quite as discretionary as your alpkit example. You can't just not eat for two weeks to see if the price comes down. I'm pretty sure the tesco "don't use a club card pay a premium" price has come about because of Apple/Google pay. When people opened their wallet to pay its was (near) zero extra effort to swipe a club card and gain some points. When you are tapping your phone/watch it is now a PITA/extra step to get a card either on the phone in their stupid app or physically and so I suspect many casual shoppers have stopped doing it, and tesco needed to find a way to make it worthwhile. Like a substantial saving on something to bring it back to its normal price. I don't know why Tesco don't have the option to keep loyalty card in the Apple Wallet and have it location sensitive so it appears at the top when you walk in the store. It makes me suspect their privacy policies may not be apple-compliant.
[Oh and I don't know how smart Alpkit are - but I suspect they are fine waiting for you to cough up the cash. They know that as soon as they do offer it at a discount that many people like you will snap it up because they don't want to miss out. That lets their sales director manipulate you to buying when he needs it for his quarterly/annual sales target to get his bonus! In reality if you can live without it just now to potentially save 20% one day in the future, you probably don't need it at all and the prudent decision would be to keep the money in your pocket]
I guess it is a language thing maybe, but with Alpkit I don’t actually see it as the sale price anymore – just the standard price. With the price the rest of the year as a supplement.
Rapha ran into this problem. Everyone except the "must have new thing NOW!" people were just waiting for the sales which were at fairly set times of the year so you could plan ahead. And what would happen then is people would buy several sizes and return the ones that didn't fit (leading to more costs of restocking, damaged goods etc) or buy loads and eBay the rest, usually at a profit.
It significantly impacted their bottom line. They do still do sales but not on the same scale that they once did.
Tesco Clubcard prices are sometimes genuinely lower than other places. Current example - Famous Grouse Smoky Black.
Clubcard £15
Asda £19
Morrisons £20.50
Of course there would be nothing stopping Tesco beating other pricing without making it Clubcard only but I guess it's their choice.
We don't buy most of our groceries there because they are not cheap overall.
Supermarket Average basket price Aldi £75.61 Lidl £76.99 Asda £85.22 Tesco £86.63 Sainsbury's £87.24 Morrisons £91.03
Rapha ran into this problem.
And what would happen then is people would buy several sizes and return the ones that didn’t fit (leading to more costs of restocking, damaged goods etc)
If they just had consistent sizing they could save a lot - I have to buy 2 or 3 sizes each time as it's completely random whether or not I can fit into it. I wear anything between M and XXL depending on the item. Their latest GTX jackets were a size smaller than their previous version, so I'm now XXL in those, but only L in a jersey..
Maybe it’s something specific to Alpkit’s way of working.
I have it on good authority their sales are mainly initiated to help cashflow, if they have a supplier bill coming due and are a bit short of cash in the bank, they run a quick sale until they have enough. They're not like Tesco etc who have billions on hand and can negotiate very aggressive supplier payment terms.
Anyone remember Green Shield stamps ?
(I remember my parents cashing in multiple books to buy a new iron).
The beer and diapers story – explained here and yes, largely a myth; interesting that it’s become Tesco rather than Walmart over the many retellings.
There are also key points when you swap your shopping habits - so the cards can get target them:
How Target Figured Out A Teen Girl Was Pregnant Before Her Father Did
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-target-figured-out-a-teen-girl-was-pregnant-before-her-father-did/?sh=a2e85b066686
You’d be surprised how effective they are. Forget you own opinion and look at the masses, not the cynical, semi tech savvy forum user.
Where they are managed at their peak I.E data utilised, linked to payments, prompts, targeted offers, altering behaviour to increase average basket value and repeat purchases they increase revenue by up to 44% Vs competitors not running a scheme. Think Nando’s. No from Deloitte so take with a pinch of salt but they do work.
Personally I hate to use them but I am not the target user.
Just for total disclosure, I am preparing a presentation on peoples views on loyalty cards and discount schemes and I needed some “Voices of the People” type perspective. I will not be using any names/usernames and very little in terms of direct quotes, but rather using this thread as a source of sentiment regarding data awareness and acceptance of this among consumers.
You mean... we're being secretly manipulated for our data, in a thread about being secretly manipulated for our data?
I’m not sure when the Tesco Clubcard was introduced, but the Met Office had a Cray C90 from 1991. 16gb of RAM 31 years ago!
I worked on the Clubcard phone lines when it was just launched, it was the mid-90s.
There was no supercomputer in our bit of Old Tesco House, but there was a vending machine that did egg sandwiches.
The idea behind loyalty cards is to increase individual spends. It has been proven to work significantly. Obviously that is done by collection of data and algorithms to inform the retailer in how to make individual nudges through vouchers etc.
It is up to you to decide if they work for you, but they definitely work for the retailers.
eg does your measurable increased spend with McDonalds, save you more over all by spending less elsewhere? Or are you actually spending more overall due to being sucked in by "promotions" etc.
FYI - they collect data on you via your credit/debitcard spends, so without a loylaty card you are still getting probed.
Just for total disclosure, I am preparing a presentation on peoples views on loyalty cards and discount schemes and I needed some “Voices of the People” type perspective.
Oh I forgot to say, loyalty schemes give me the ****ing horn.
Just for total disclosure, I am preparing a presentation on peoples views on loyalty cards and discount schemes and I needed some “Voices of the People” type perspective.
I find they inspire me to commit satanic ritual killing sprees......
Is there a way to put loyalty cards on an iPhone?
That's pretty much all I carry these days. Not that I ever carried loyalty cards anyway - the exception being Coop as it's our local small supermarket which we visit several times a week whenever we're low on something...
Yes.
either with their app or apple wallet.
I don't think "entice people back based on offers and shopping habits" actually means the same as "manipulate shoppers into spending more." The former is a friendly, positive message just like calling them loyalty cards (we reward you for being a loyal customer) the latter is more sinister - you give us your data and we will use that data against you, and people like you, to trick you into buying stuff you didn't need or paying more for a perceived higher value product. None of it is done to make your shopping trip more pleasant, cheaper (unless you'd go elsewhere if it wasn't) or more convenient. If 50% of people who buy spaghetti also buy pasta sauce they don't move them beside each other - they move them apart so you also walk past the garlic bread, or the parmesan etc. Unless of course, the data says putting a high price sauce close to the pasta actually sells more of the higher margin product.
Just for total disclosure, I am preparing a presentation on peoples views on loyalty cards and discount schemes and I needed some “Voices of the People” type perspective. I will not be using any names/usernames and very little in terms of direct quotes, but rather using this thread as a source of sentiment regarding data awareness and acceptance of this among consumers.
Is the audience particularly interested in the views of gobby IT managers who ride mountain bikes?
@poly it’s exactly the same. Just it can be more direct by offering free Percy Pigs next time you shop. The other is cheap Baileys so people will be drawn for a bottle, may as well do my shopping too. Oh look bags of Walkers for £1 may as well get 3 packets then
Is there a way to put loyalty cards on an iPhone?
As Drac says, with their app or apple wallet, but if that does not work, the third party Stocard App will often work and you can then move the card to the Apple Wallet
Just for total disclosure, I am preparing a presentation on peoples views on loyalty cards and discount schemes and I needed some “Voices of the People” type perspective
Ethically, you need to say that at the start, not after people have weighed in.
[i]Just for total disclosure, I am preparing a presentation on peoples views on loyalty cards and discount schemes and I needed some “Voices of the People” type perspective
Ethically, you need to say that at the start, not after people have weighed in.[/i]
Just for total ethics, I only started this thread for shit and giggles but thought I would throw in a post about polling your replies to see where that sent the thread but not many people took the bait.
