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Can't say I'm surprised. I never thought the people drinking one or two pints were the problem. And the problem drink drivers two or three times the old limit aren't going to stop because the limit is changed.
https://velvetgloveironfist.blogspot.com/2018/12/lowering-drink-drive-limit-had-no.html
It's simply too early to tell. Think long term cultural change.
In the mean time...
this change was associated with a small reduction in per-capita alcohol consumption from on-trade alcohol sales.
seems like good news from a general public health point of view.
That's because there's no enforcement.
When Random Breathtesting was introduced in Queensland, it cut the incidence down markedly.
Two factors stick in my mind: the police used to kettle an area so no one could squeeze by; and morning commute testing to catch those still under the influence. The latter had a noticeable effect amongst the big drinkers I knew because people became more aware of the problem of a heavy night - you can't just "sleep it off".
If you drink and drive in Queensland, they will get you in the end.
But that needs regular enforcement, and we should have it here.
It changed my habits (and I can't be the only one). If I need to drive, it's zero alcohol beforehand.
The article is concerned about rural pubs closing. I doubt rural pubs are living or dying due to single pints being bought or not being bought by car driving customers.
From the opening paragraph...
By contrast, driving after consuming a small quantity of alcohol poses no threat to others and is fine
Not a biased article at all then ?
Not biased at all..
Always eager for an easy, feel-good headline, the Scottish government voted unanimously
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-46541752
Researchers suggesting that more needs to be done to advertise the lower limits, plus a possible argument for random breath testing.
We did this not too long ago...
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/no-accident-reduction-for-lower-drink-drive-limit/
Not a biased article at all then ?
The tone of the piece is a bit swivelly, and a link to a IEA tract top right. There may be an agenda...
dmorts
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It changed my habits (and I can’t be the only one). If I need to drive, it’s zero alcohol beforehand.
this.
as for the 1 -2 pinters not being the issue. Oh I was ok after 2 pints I'll be fine with 3 and so on.
Ranty man on his blog expects decades of culture to change overnight.
It may not have had an impact on the levels of people caught over the limit, but it’s absolutely changed people’s habits. For example, it was common practice in the past for people at our MR team AGM to have a pint or two before driving home. Since the limit was lowered, that behaviour has changed to soft drinks all round. Likewise, no one goes to the pub after training, instead people tend to make a brew at the base and chat there. Assuming we’re not an isolated case, the ‘people caught’ stat might not have changed, but the ‘people abstaining before driving’ one has definitely gone up.
What we need to do now is get the local to have a read of the non-alcoholic beer thread and start stocking some decent options...
Drink driving stats are a measure of how many people are getting caught drink driving, not how many people are drink driving. You'd expect some correlation between the two, but I'd be interested in whether the police are still carrying out the same level of enforcement giving the cuts we've had to their budgets over the past decade.
Well it affected me, I won't even chance a pint now then drive so I consider it to have worked.
OTOH it hasn't affected me.
It's years (decades) since I had a pint and then drove soon afterwards. I'm also extremely cautious about how much I'd drink the night before a morning drive. But then that sort of backs up some of the assertion that it hasn't really affected the "hard core" drink drivers.
The report linked to covers all RTA rates. There are many other factors that might influence that figure so I can't see how any conclusion can be drawn regarding drink driving numbers. It might be argued that those in favour of BAC reduction were a little too optimistic about initial results.
I know plenty of folk - myself included - who would take the car when going out for dinner & think nothing of having a beer or a glass of wine with it (maybe 2, you'll be fine...), nowadays there's not even the temptation.
The problem drink-drivers are probably still doing it but the "2 pints are fine" culture is definitely changing.
Then you get home & check the "lager cocktails" thread & pick a random concoction to make up for lost time 🙂
As I recall, the study results did not include any stats about how many drivers were actually still being caught driving over the limit, and the authors noted this. They were simply demonstrating there had been no reduction in RTIs after the limit was lowered, but not investigating why that was the case.
If your low consumption problem drivers have just carried on, because they don't think they are going to be caught, then of course the number of incidents will not have dropped.
"If your low consumption problem drivers have just carried on, because they don’t think they are going to be caught, then of course the number of incidents will not have dropped."
If the users of this forum are any guide the new law had it's intended effect of making many previous 1 pint drivers go to zero. Presumably corroborated by the reduction in rural pubs alcohol sales as per the BBC report. This has had zero effect of RTAs or fatalities. Maybe 1 pint drivers are not a problem?
I doubt rural pubs are living or dying due to single pints being bought or not being bought by car driving customers.
A local place closed down about a year after the change. Used to be very busy, well regarded restaurant but business dried up immediately because of the need to drive there.
Yep lots of folk no longer risk "a couple is safe".
Although saying that we're close enough to the border to see lunch dinners from down south have a glass or two. A few well placed cop cars would really spoil their nice lunch.
If I'm going to have a few I take the bike these days.
Its had a significant effect in that folk no longer think a pint or two is OK - and its well proven that a blood alcohol level between the scots and english limit increases your risk of accidents hugely.
Personally I'd lower it further.
It changed my habits (and I can’t be the only one). If I need to drive, it’s zero alcohol beforehand.
Used to have a pint and wait a decent amount of time, now I don't. Not averse to a non alcoholic* beer though, noticed a LOT more of them being offered since the limit got lowered.
*yes, I'm aware it still has nominal amounts of alcohol but mostly counted for tax and licensing reasons.
"It may not have had an impact on the levels of people caught over the limit, but it’s absolutely changed people’s habits. For example, it was common practice in the past for people at our MR team AGM to have a pint or two before driving home. Since the limit was lowered, that behaviour has changed to soft drinks all round. Likewise, no one goes to the pub after training, instead people tend to make a brew at the base and chat there. Assuming we’re not an isolated case, the ‘people caught’ stat might not have changed, but the ‘people abstaining before driving’ one has definitely gone up."
So basically, what you're saying is that a pint after work has stopped, for no good reason.
The evidence is stark, and the change was made in 2014. No reduction in fatalities or injuries and measureable reduction in sales (and the above habits).
Reaction times tend to get better after your first pint before going downhill. So go for that pint people. It literally doesn't hurt *anyone*.
Reaction times tend to get better after your first pint before going downhill.
Interesting.....as long as you can back it up with a reliable source?
It’s not worth the bother. I won’t drink if I have to drive in the morning.
It’s not worth the bother
Interesting seeing the behaviour of my mother’s social group in the very rural highlands. All in their 70s and arguably most entrenched. All those who drank one/two have now stopped or at most have one very small glass of wine. The one man who was renown for driving after too much still does. So whilst that is not wildly encouraging personally if you have ever sat in the passenger seat of my mother’s car you’d see it as a huge positive that her remaining faculties are being fully utilised.
Reaction times tend to get better after your first pint before going downhill
Utter bullshine - the opposite is well proven. One pint is enough to impair your driving significantly
In my younger days I could pass a breathalyser after 3 pints of Guinness. No laws broken and legal to drive but it definitely made my driving faster and more aggressive.
I was listening to this being discussed on Jeremy Vine yesterday. One of the people he had on the phone was head of road policing in Scotland. He said the figures used for the report stopped at 2016, so didn't include anything from 2017 or this year. He also said that 2017 and this year's figures showed an significant decrease in drink driving related incidents.
Yes. The same thought had gone through my head.
Although saying that we’re close enough to the border to see lunch dinners from down south have a glass or two. A few well placed cop cars would really spoil their nice lunch.
You'll be lucky if there is more than one police car patrolling the whole Borders road network at any one time. A few spare ones to check for drink drivers is a pipe dream.