[Closed] Looking for a VPN? CyberGhost cheapness.

https://stacksocial.com/sales/lifetime-of-ra4w-vpn

$39 for a lifetime sub. No idea if it's any good or not though. There's a few others too:

https://stacksocial.com/search?cat=390&query=VPN

VPN Unlimited seems to get good reviews, and that's $29.

https://stacksocial.com/sales/vpn-unlimited-lifetime-subscription

I use Ivacy. Works well with good speeds when needed and five simultaneous logins.
Always deals on...

Hmmm... Interested... Who is everyone using? There are loads and a quick google would suggest some are rubbish.. Would like access to Netflix USA and hiding t*****t traffic.

I'm using PIA over port 443 (so it looks like HTTPS traffic and BT therefore don't throttle it). You can choose which end point you use, I'm on Southampton, benefit being you still get served UK pages rather than France, Netherlands etc like with some other providers.

Can you trust the end point of the VPN any more than Mrs May's spies?

And besides there will be back doors in the software soon enough.

Still. Host an Amazon/Azure VM in the US, set up VPN server on it, and away you go. Not sure how the cost will stack up, but would be just yourself as user. Netflix though I guess is going to get costly on data transfer.

actually, I'm on a server in Manchester - my son says he chose Norway which led to my confusion about where server would be...

[quote=deadkenny ]Can you trust the end point of the VPN any more than Mrs May's spies?

To be honest I don't know. They say they don't keep logs, but who really knows?

In terms of the software, you are free to use vanilla openvpn on your client (and I do) but of course you no way of knowing what's been done to the code running on the server.

I suppose we have to rely on the face it would be extremely bad for business if they were to reveal any user identities/data.

I'm looking too - this one looks good, supports P2P, TOR over VPN, $5.75 per month for 6 devices, so theoriticaly you could chip in with a mate and have 3 secured devices each, bringing the cost down to $2.87 per month...based in panama [url= https://nordvpn.com/features/ ]https://nordvpn.com/features/[/url]

retro83 - Member
...I suppose we have to rely on the face it would be extremely bad for business if they were to reveal any user identities/data.

Or [i]I suppose we have to rely on the face it would be extremely bad for business if they were to[/i] [b]make public that they had revealed[/b] [i]any user identities/data[/i] :).

Can you trust the end point of the VPN any more than Mrs May's spies?

I'd at least want one which terminated outside the UK, somewhere privacy friendly like Germany. Terminating in the UK is a bit pointless as the VPN company will still have to log all your traffic for Mrs May's inspection.

I'd at least want one which terminated outside the UK, somewhere privacy friendly like Germany.

You might want to have a look at this -
[url= https://www.my-private-network.co.uk/vpn-provider-14-eyes-country-something-know/ ]https://www.my-private-network.co.uk/vpn-provider-14-eyes-country-something-know/[/url]

If you are serious about finding a quality VPN (and given the way legislation is going I suggest we all get serious about it), grab a cup of tea and spend some time and braincells here..

[url= https://thatoneprivacysite.net/ ]https://thatoneprivacysite.net/[/url]

OMG It's a damn minefield of options! 😯 😕

I'm swaying more towards NordVPN at the moment.

Terminating in the UK is a bit pointless as the VPN company will still have to log all your traffic for Mrs May's inspection.

Is it though? If we legislate that ISPs have to keep logs, a VPN provider is not an ISP. I'd doubt that they get bundled up in the same law for the simple reason that most MPs probably have no concept of what one is. Remember not so long ago, someone made a speech in Parliament describing IP addresses as Intellectual Property addresses.

https://thatoneprivacysite.net/

That's a really good read. Thanks for that.

opera has a vpn built in if you just want to hide browsing.

I'm using IPVanish - seems decent enough, has apps for iPhone, tablet, PC etc too.

Is it though? If we legislate that ISPs have to keep logs, a VPN provider is not an ISP. I'd doubt that they get bundled up in the same law for the simple reason that most MPs probably have no concept of what one is.

Normally laws are drafted as loose as possibly to catch all and then the finer details are argued in the courts and it all gets endlessly refined via case law....

I wear my tin foil hat when it comes to Tor. Short of actually reviewing the source code each time there's a "security" update I can't trust the binaries and hashes (or that the peers reviewing it are reliable). Not updating is a vulnerability also. And these days there's a likelihood of a large amount of end nodes being under surveillance.

Not that using it for dodgy Netflix shenanigans is going to upset government spies, and besides it would be worse than useless in performance.

footflaps - Member 
I'd at least want one which terminated outside the UK, somewhere privacy friendly like Germany.

Would have to be US to get US Netflix.

I bought a cyberghost lifetime sub off StackSocial 'just in case'. Seems legit.

You have to keep up with the updates as servers sprout up and die off, but I suspect thats the same with all of these services.

For £16 for life it was cheaper than running an AWS instance and offers a wider variety of egress countries.

Would have to be US to get US Netflix

I'm struggling to decide the best VPN.. never used one before outside of work..I'm not bothered about getting American netflix if I can unblock eztv or whatever, and not have to hunt for a new proxy or mirror site every few weeks...I want it to be good enough to stream at reasonable definition, P2P friendly is a plus.

I'm using PIA over port 443 (so it looks like HTTPS traffic and BT therefore don't throttle it). You can choose which end point you use, I'm on Southampton, benefit being you still get served UK pages rather than France, Netherlands etc like with some other providers.

Retro83 - what kind of speed do you get on PIA when you're connected?

I use PIA and I notice no degradation in my connection speed. Most IT/security peeps I know use it.

monkeychild - Member
I use PIA and I notice no degradation in my connection speed. Most IT/security peeps I know use it.

In terms of bandwidth it maxes out my BT fibre connection no problem. There is a bit more latency though as you'd expect.

Short answer is it makes no noticeable difference except to gaming.

Okay scratch that, I just tested it again. No difference on ping now either.

[img] [/img]
[img] [/img]

This is using the native windows 10 VPN client, not the PIA tray program. No reason for that just that I'd rather not have extra programs running when it's already built in to W10.

IPVanish for me. Well priced and performance is good. In an audit of VPN providers they scored very well for protecting anonymity (of course it [I]they[/I] really want to screw you over then such audits would be a fix anyway 😉 ).

To be honest though. Most of the time I browse in the clear. They can keep and store all my posts to STW if they really want 😀

IP vanish and PIA are based in the states which is not something I would want, as has been said before it has to be a non 14 eyes country where the operator is based.Have a look at Nordvpn based Panama,6 devices,vpn, double vpn, vpn over tor, I`ve had good service from them for the past few years. I personally would be a little skeptical of a lifetime sub for $20..you pay peanuts...

IPreadtor here, but it gets a bit interesting having to convert bike parts prices from Swedish to GBP

Some good stuff on here. Philosophical question...

As a citizen (not a corporate) would you rather have the perennial bad guys like the Chinese be spying on you, or your own government / their best mates?

Assume all are open to hacking / unintentional data loss.

IP vanish and PIA are based in the states which is not something I would want, as has been said before it has to be a non 14 eyes country where the operator is based.

Depends what you're using the VPN for, really. If you want total security against targeted investigation then absolutely - it has to be a company that can't be leaned on by the authorities.

But if you're using a VPN just to mess with them, to make sure they can't just sweep up all your data and do data mining on it, then it doesn't have to be that secure.

As Ben said there are a number of use cases here (including watching US Netflix), the emerging one being the latter - "But if you're using a VPN just to mess with them, to make sure they can't just sweep up all your data and do data mining on it, then it doesn't have to be that secure."

Me - I'll be looking for a service hosted in a country with a strong privacy record that citizens of that country hold in high regard, preferably European.

Me - I'll be looking for a service hosted in a country with a strong privacy record that citizens of that country hold in high regard, preferably European

Even with all the great info posted in the link I listed earlier I am having a real problem weighing various strengths and weaknesses.
From having spend a few hours going through the spreadsheet on the site it seems as though IVPN are about the best going in terms of data logging (none), and privacy standards. However they are pretty expensive in comparison to others (although they support multi hop in that price which many others either don't support or charge extra for).
The only issue I have with them is that they are based in Gibraltar.. As that is technically part of the UK, that means they fall into 14 eyes territory. IVPN have addressed this in an extensive blog post essentially saying that Gibraltar sets it's own laws and legal system, if they are leaned on by government then they will move out of Gibraltar. Having said all that the new laws that are coming into effect mean that if they were leaned on by government then they would be prevented from telling anyone about it..

The more I read about this new legislation the more dangerous and insidious it seem to be. From what I can make out it essentially gives Parliament the ability to retrospectively change what constituted illegal activity and then prosecute people for breaking that law even though it wasn't illegal when they did whatever it was.!!!!!!!

This probably doesn't help, but after reading and using the site thatoneprivacysite.net, I went with NordVPN. Downloads seem to be the same speed as without a VPN and can have 6 devices. It also seems to work with US Netflicks, although it hasn't been 1080 HD quality yet.

Why the hell would you use a vpn to watch netflix, using a vpn for everything is going to flag you up nicely to your isp and the security services - mow that youvr managed to distinguish yourself from your average traffic - so that the next time you decide to pull your todger - GCHQ will be watching through your webcam. Just use one for sensitive searches such as health queries etc

Why the hell would you use a vpn to watch netflix

using a vpn for everything is going to flag you up nicely to your ISP and the security services

Here's a tip, next time you pull your todger just stick some tape over the webcam. 😆 😆

Nope, they'll have a lovely list of known VPNs and commercial users - anyone not in both will end up bumped up a naughty list - same goes for TOR.

Just seen that the PM can actually sign off on targeted intercepts of MPs. Great.

If you dont mind them tapping you, then there is no point to using it all the time. As I said, use it for sensitive queries like health ones and then go back to doing what you usually do - that will prevent your sensitive data from being leaked and not flag you up.

But if you are connecting via a VPN what options do they have to intercept. Off the top of my head I can think of...

1. Snoop your Wi-Fi/network
2. Install something on your device (phone, laptop, tablet)
3. Confiscate your device and carry out forensic analysis, or look in your history.
4. Go medieval on the VPN provider and get access to their records

Government: We think you were doing something illegal because you connected via a VPN.
Me: Prove it
Government: ...

This also presumes that they have the manpower to manage such a list that Tom alludes to and also that they have even more manpower to investigate everyone who uses a VPN and is on the naughty list. The more people that start using a VPN the bigger the problem is going to get.

Might be useful..

Started changing my mail over to another provider because I was'nt like the total Google domination feeling.

I came across these mail providers:

Tutanota Encrypted Mail
https://tutanota.com/
*code open source.
Based in Germany.

ProtonMail
https://protonmail.com/
NOT Open Source, but based in Switzerland.

I'm using TutaNota at the moment and see quite good.

And then they will ban VPNs....once the golden period of narrowing their search numbers ends.

GCHQ will be watching

You know VPNs carry encrypted traffic, right? Unless they've compromised the connection that's not possible, all they will be able glean is that you have an encrypted stream of data. They wouldn't even be identify that it's a VPN connection (though the default port 51 would give that away unless you changed it). That's the whole point.

[img] [/img]

And then they will ban VPNs....

That would cripple UK businesses though, the ecomomic cost would be incalculable.

And then they will ban VPNs....once the golden period of narrowing their search numbers ends.

Again, you're not getting it. You can no longer ban VPNs than you can ban Welsh. It's [i]encrypted[/i] traffic, that is all. PPTP can be blocked because it uses a fixed port (and other technical stuff around encapsulation), but that's no great loss because it's insecure anyway. If you were to install OpenVPN and make a connection over port 443 (the same port https:// uses), the traffic would be indistinguishable from someone browsing a secure website.

And then they will ban VPNs....once the golden period of narrowing their search numbers ends.

Cougar, they wont intercept the traffic - and your ISP will be able to tell - via your connection records whether you are connecting to VPNs and conversely the security services.

If youre worried about your local council abusing this law, what do you think your council will think when they ask for the data and get a bunch of vpn adresses? That youre a fine upstanding member of the community?

I think someone doesn't really know what a VPN is.

using a vpn for everything is going to flag you up nicely to your ISP and the security services

I spend 8 hours a day on VPNs working on remote networks!

Was in Nigeria this am, New York & Chicago this afternoon.

Loads of companies set up their employee laptops so they can only connect to the internet via a VPN back to HQ.

A good reason for running a VPN is that lots of information about your browsing will be held by ISPs - private companies. They can be hacked - see Talk Talk for example - this has identity theft implications.
They may also sell the information... say to a private insurance company (e.g. Virgin Broadband to Virgin Health) to affect your premiums if/when the NHS gets privatised. Never underestimate how many clever people at profit making companies are figuring out ways to analyse your "anonymised" data and "tailor your services" through it.
Things can happen retroactively too. The info is there, just needs the right laws.

Nothing retroactive is going to happen, storing just basic data like the primary web adress for a year is going to cost them millions and millions. Theyve been fighting this for that reason.

Companies like google do though....

they wont intercept the traffic

A third party cannot intercept the traffic in any sort of meaningful manner. Any attempt to capture the data and pass it on (a "man in the middle" attack) will change the security signature, so you'll know it's been tampered with. The only way to intercept it is to poison one of the end points. And even if they could they couldn't do anything with it [i]because it is encrypted.[/i]

and your ISP will be able to tell

Your ISP will be able to tell you had an encrypted session to an IP address somewhere. They could employ deep packet inspection to potentially reveal that it is VPN traffic, but there's ways to prevent that (SSH / SSL tunnelling).

This..

A good reason for running a VPN is that lots of information about your browsing will be held by ISPs - private companies. They can be hacked - see Talk Talk for example - this has identity theft implications.
They may also sell the information... say to a private insurance company (e.g. Virgin Broadband to Virgin Health) to affect your premiums if/when the NHS gets privatised. Never underestimate how many clever people at profit making companies are figuring out ways to analyse your "anonymised" data and "tailor your services" through it.

This legislation is essentially creating a massive single point of failure for private data about every UK citizen. If you don't think that it is going to be a massive target for identity theft and other hacking you are horribly naive.
Why would identity thieves go to all the trouble of organising large phishing campaigns with success rates in the single % when they can simply get all the data they need to compromise the identity of as many people as they like..?

I would love to know once this is all up and running whether members of the cabinet are subject to this legislation on their personal computer use.?! or whether they are excepted due to 'national security'..

Pm has to sign off on targeting MPs doesnt she? I dont see how they can escape being hoovered up by ISPs though, Id have thought it would be next to impossible to account for all the devices, house moves, elections and changes of who has a seat in Parliament.

Here's a thing.

With cars you have a registered keeper. Any misdemeanours and the keeper is legally obliged to disclose the driver (in England at any rate). You've got a breadcrumb trail.

But IP addresses aren't linked to an individual person, but a household. Say you're in a student accommodation with half a dozen people you barely know and a shared PC, and someone downloads kiddie porn or something. Who do you prosecute? There's no legislation I'm aware of (yet?) that makes the bill payer responsible for identifying users, and how would you go about policing that anyway? "Who was using the computer at 8pm on this date four months ago?" Umm...

I have not been too bothered by this although I resent the intrusion.

However, the more I think about it, the more I dislike it.

No doubt at some point it will be outsourced to a private company, and whatever data they are gathering will get hacked, all in a nice tidy package.

Arent IP addresses often duplicated at any one time anyway? Hence the introduction of ipv6?

No doubt at some point it will be outsourced to a private company, and whatever data they are gathering will get hacked, all in a nice tidy package.

That's already what will happen, the ISP's are required to collect and store this information (no idea how ISP's outside of Virgin/Sky/BT/TalkTalk are supposed to be able to afford the infrastructure) and make it available to the appropriate civil services when asked.
Actually, thinking about this, it's not unreasonable to see this being the first step towards a state sanctioned national ISP once all the current ISP's start going out of business because of the massive infrastructure overheads associated with this pointless madness.. I'm sure Mein Fuhrer May will love that.. just run all the internet traffic directly through GCHQ and cut out the middle man.!
Give it a few years and at this rate we are all going to be looking into the quality of the riding in China so we can emigrate to a freer state..

Make no mistake people, this is not a crime prevention measure, it's about harvesting big data which is worth money..[s]virgin media selling data to virgin health[/s] virgin health requesting data from virgin broadband users to weight policies is the tip of the iceberg.

Every man and his dog will have access to mass browsing habits of targeted demographics.

And that's not even getting started on how safe your data is, ISPs will be golden geese for hackers and botnets, if they are sat on massive amounts of personal data.

Arent IP addresses often duplicated at any one time anyway? Hence the introduction of ipv6?

Not duplicated but shared.. your ISP will generally assign your account an IP (unless you ask for a static one then it may change but in reality rarely does). The internet connected devices within your house are all assigned a local IP address by your router, these are IP addresses that are designated for local traffic and are not used on the wider internet. Once a device requests something from the internet, your router keeps track of it's internal IP address, sends the request out to the internet using the external address assigned by your ISP and when the data comes back it figures out which device to send it to.. hence you can have 100 devices connected in your home but only a single public IP address (hence the problem with figuring out who was naughty in a house/flat).
Once IPv6 is fully rolled out, everything that connects to the internet will have it's own PUBLIC IP address so the NAT (network address translation) will be unneccesary and legislation like this will become even more creepy as they'll be able to record where you were and which device you were using when you accessed whatever they decide is illegal that week.!

And that's not even getting started on how safe your data is, ISPs will be golden geese for hackers and botnets, if they are sat on massive amounts of personal data.

Exactly, if this goes ahead even close to how the legislation is written ISP's will all become massive targets and I wouldn't bet an old sock on the chances of the data staying secured for more than about 24 hours. (I'd have to think seriously about betting on 24 minutes!)

Of course, history has proved that every Internet company stores its data responsibly using irreversible encryption. Er, oh.

In other "who watches the watchers" news, I've just remembered about this so I'll just leave it here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regin_(malware)

Also, this is an interesting read as to what direction ISPs may take:

http://www.revk.uk/2016/11/snoopers-charter-and-a.html

Loads of companies set up their employee laptops so they can only connect to the internet via a VPN back to HQ.

and the civil service itself!

and which device you were using

What if I was using a spoofed MAC address?