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...Am I making a mistake?
As a self employed person I'm looking at moving back into the corporate world in the area of sales/marketing management at strategic level. A director friend has said that I'll need to brush up on my skills as things have changed in the last 10 years, I presume he means the introduction of computers. My previous company didn't use email!!
Anything else I need to look at? Have I been overtaken by loads of 25 year old MBA holders with no real world experience?
What should I expect?
Cheers.
A director friend has said that I'll need to brush up on my skills as things have changed in the last 10 years
Don't think so tbh. I mean the newer version of Word looks a bit different but that's not going to be an issue!
No idea about the business side of your area of expertise tho 🙂
As a self employed person I'm looking at moving back into the corporate world in the area of sales/marketing management at strategic level
Well you can aim high, but there is a lot of competition out there.
Good luck.
Don't think so tbh. I mean the newer version of Word looks a bit different but that's not going to be an issue!
What did the original version of Word look like? My last company didn't even use email, nothing, I repeat nothing, on the field sales was computerised. 😯
Not really sure what you've said there geoffj, but thanks.
Have I been overtaken by loads of 25 year old MBA holders with no real world experience?
Almost certainly. They'll have experience by now, too.
The main difference is that you're expected to be available 24x7, particularly if they give you a work phone. Spanish corporate hours are longer than UK hours, too, especially in management positions.
Have I been overtaken by loads of 25 year old MBA holders with no real world experience?
That depends what you've been doing for the last 10 years. If you've been picking fluff out of your belly button for most of them, then I would guess that the MBAs will probably have a head start on you by now.
If on the other hand, you've been working in a related position then I don't suppose you will have missed out much.
More observations: you need to learn Excel, and fast. Think data introduction, graphics, pivot tables.
Basic Powerpoint and Word skills are also essential. Personally I'd forget about Open Office, unless you're really unlucky you won't have to use it.
Most sales systems that I've seen are web based, given you're posting on here you shouldn't have any problems there.
24/7 not a problem, but I think that's Spainish owned companies or old old style management
Excel a problem. "Think data introduction, graphics, pivot tables. " Think WTF are you talking about?
PowerPoint not as an issue as I hate it and spend most of my time telling folks to avoid it. In the last 4-5 years (100s of presntations) I've only seen 1 good one, and they didn't use PP!
Any suggestions on Excel for tontos?
Most of the MBA holders I come across are thick as shite and can only get a point across by stating that they have an MBA!
Spanish corporate hours are longer than UK hours, too, especially in management positions
Are they bollox, I'm working on a project in Barcleona right now and they've all gone home for the weekend!
Catalan regional deviation perhaps?
Spanish corporate hours are longer than UK hours, too, especially in management positions.
not here - they do longer days in the winter and shorter days in the summer and all mgmt positions are 24/7 when you've got a mobile.
So plan MTB trips to the Cairngorms where there's no signal.
Depends on the company, brassneck. Wait and see what time mogrim posts again... 😈
Excel is vital in business these days
Being able to present complex data in a simple and intelligable way is also important.
If you have only seen 1 presentation out of 100s that was any good and was not done in powerpoint in the last 10 years then you've been looking in the wrong places, same goes for all the "thick as sh1te" MBAs. I would guess that most are at least above average intelligence and many are very very bright.
Don't mean to be personal, but you may need to change your approach a little if you are going to need a bit of help from the technologically savvy people who have been in the corporate world for the last 10 years 😉
Most of the MBA holders I come across are thick as shite and can only get a point across by stating that they have an MBA!
Aaaah the old inverted snobbery defence.
Would you like a sack of kind edwards for the other shoulder? 😆
I had a rather enjoyable "gap year" out of the corporate world in 2010 and recenly plunged myself back in to it. OK, so not as long a gap as you, but my key observations are;
- Shaving everyday is a real pain
- As is deciding what to wear (Rather than just grabbing my FiveTens, jeans and a t-shirt!)
- Business travel really isn't that glamourous. (Hadn't really forgotten that, but it's tiring as hell!)
- Conference calls can really drain you!
However....
- The £££ factor is 8) 😆 8)
- BA Airmiles are ace!
- I love the challenge
Don't mean to be personal, but you may need to change your approach a little if you are going to need a bit of help from the technologically savvy people who have been in the corporate world for the last 10 years
Nothing wrong with my approach. Which area of the technologically advanced corporate world do you hail from?
I assume you're familiar with the Spanish education system and the level of tuition in some of the MBAs offered.
I have actually been working in the corporate world as a trainer for the last ten years and have seen hundreds of presentations where the presenter thinks it's the dogs and the reality is something completely different. But don't let that stop you judging me.
I have actually been working in the corporate world as a trainer for the last ten years and have seen hundreds of presentations where the presenter thinks it's the dogs and the reality is something completely different. But don't let that stop you judging me.
<cockerknee> Any old iron, any old iron, any any any old iron. <cockerknee>
I had a rather enjoyable "gap year" out of the corporate world in 2010 and recenly plunged myself back in to it. OK, so not as long a gap as you, but my key observations are;
- Shaving everyday is a real pain
- As is deciding what to wear (Rather than just grabbing my FiveTens, jeans and a t-shirt!)
- Business travel really isn't that glamourous. (Hadn't really forgotten that, but it's tiring as hell!)
- Conference calls can really drain you!
This is the more informed reply I was looking for. Point by point.
1. Not a problem except I have a Parker not a Merkur.
2. I find wearing a suit less taxing on the mind than choosing casual.
3. All part of the job.
4. No real experience of conference calls..
Gracias.
<cockerknee> Any old iron, any old iron, any any any old iron. <cockerknee>
Whoosh!
Its like raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaain on your wedding day (except its not)
Still whoosh, where's the irony? I'm not judging anyone, if that's what you're refering to.
I'm not judging anyone, if that's what you're refering to.
the presenter thinks it's the dogs and the reality is something completely different.
Really - I'd suggest you were judging their judgement!
50 slides in a 20 minute presentation is acceptable?
1 slide with more info than the whole FT is acceptable?
Presenting the same info in a line graph, bar chart and pie chart is acceptable?
My comments are from first hand experience and often backe by the directors who have to sit through this drivel.
No I am not judging them on a snippet of info, as a presentation coach, I'm telling them their presentations are crap based on detailed observations. 😀
I have actually been working in the corporate world as a trainer for the last ten years and have seen hundreds of presentations where the presenter thinks it's the dogs and the reality is something completely different.
At least you're used to that bit of it. You might want to also consider that your corporate presentations will have to follow the corporate stylesheet, and quite possibly include 5 or 6 or 20 slides that your boss thinks are appropriate, too. All packed full of 12pt text.
Are they bollox, I'm working on a project in Barcleona right now and they've all gone home for the weekend!Catalan regional deviation perhaps?
lol, Friday finishing is a different matter! During the week though working til 8, 9 O'clock is not unusual. There's definitely a culture of putting in the hours, even if they're not entirely productive (hence my posting on here during the day 😆 )
Looking into it a bit closer the data seems confusing, not sure if Spanish hours are longer or shorter. Certainly the sensation I get from visiting my parents in London is that the rush hour there starts at least an hour earlier than it does in Madrid, although lunchbreaks are probably longer here. No siesta, though, despite the reputation!
"Think data introduction, graphics, pivot tables. " Think WTF are you talking about?
...
Any suggestions on Excel for tontos?
You'll need a copy of Excel, for starters! There're loads of tutorials on the net, and Amazon is full of books on the subject. Google Is Your Friend.
Have I been overtaken by loads of 25 year old MBA holders with no real world experience?
Most of the MBA holders I come across are thick as shite and can only get a point across by stating that they have an MBA!
What about these comments then?
Like I said, good luck.
@mogrim, at home now or long lunch??? 😆
At least you're used to that bit of it. You might want to also consider that your corporate presentations will have to follow the corporate stylesheet, and quite possibly include 5 or 6 or 20 slides that your boss thinks are appropriate, too. All packed full of 12pt text.
This is a difficult one and not easy to classify, some companies have templates others no. More often than not the idea of fulling slides is a bit of a myth, the majority of directors I've spoken to really, really, really want clear and concise presentations and not reams of bullcrap. I had one student who refused to remove the moving gifs that served no purpose to the presentation except distract, he didn't get the money he was asking for. But I hear what you're saying.
No siesta? NOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooo!
Galapagar this weekend?
What about these comments then?
I think you don't know me very well and the comments served their purpose very well, thanks.
50 slides in a 20 minute presentation is acceptable?
1 slide with more info than the whole FT is acceptable?
Presenting the same info in a line graph, bar chart and pie chart is acceptable?no no yes.
HTH
😯
50 slides in a 20 minute presentation is acceptable?
1 slide with more info than the whole FT is acceptable?
It is when the boss says so!
Galapagar every weekend, it is where I live after all. Not doing Los Embalses though if that's what you're asking. 30€ seems a little steep to ride the same trails I do on a regular basis!
It is when the boss says so!
I'm working in a Korean company at the moment and the bosses basically demand a report on PP, they interrupt to ask questions then when they have enough info they stop the presenter mid sentence...
Galapagar every weekend, it is where I live after all. 😆 Not doing Los Embalses though if that's what you're asking. 30€ seems a little steep to ride the same trails I do on a regular basis!
It'll be interesting after last year's debacle. I reckon it'll be seriously down on numbers and yes a bit too expensive for what it is.
You might need to upgrade your work phone...
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I got me some red braces too. 😆
sales/marketing management at strategic level
it's all big hand small map isn't it at that level?
you should have the monkeys jumping through hoops for you rather than the other way around
See if I was expected to be available 24/7 I'd be wanting paid 24/7. Sounds like a life I would not want to lead.
See if I was expected to be available 24/7 I'd be wanting paid 24/7. Sounds like a life I would not want to lead.
You are paid for it, that's one of the reasons managers make more money than the people under them.
It'll be interesting after last year's debacle. I reckon it'll be seriously down on numbers and yes a bit too expensive for what it is.
Didn't do it last year, so no idea what really happened. Valdemorillo was half that price, really can't see how they can justify that cost.
They are not paid that much more.
I missed Valdemorillo, I've heard it's less technical than Los Embalses, and Los Embalses isn't that technical as in last time I rode it I managed 44t for about 95%.
Last year lots of folks got lost as, I believe, a local landowner who had a grievance with PCRompepiernas removed or changed the signage, but what I saw it wasn't well marked on the Saturday either.
big_n_daft, you've got the idea. 😆
They are not paid that much more.
And being available 24/7 doesn't mean they work 24/7 either, much the same as I am currently available 24/7 but without the same rewards. There are other benefits too, not just money, IMHO.
... so long as the job is not becoming a banker or financial investor ...
Hey don Simon, I think you'll be competing against these kids
What's all the talk about Spain?!
What's all the talk about Spain?!
The OP (Don Simon) lives in Spain. And so do I. Hence Spain.
I missed Valdemorillo, I've heard it's less technical than Los Embalses, and Los Embalses isn't that technical as in last time I rode it I managed 44t for about 95%.
Nothing particuarly technical about Valdemorillo, lots of mud, a couple of granny ring climbs, singletrack, snow and fog. Great fun, well worth the money.
The main difference is that you're expected to be available 24x7, particularly if they give you a work phone. Spanish corporate hours are longer than UK hours, too, especially in management positions.
Agreed, I work for for a Spanish bank. Work mobile needs to be on 24/7, I would say I work pretty much everyday of the week. BUT - Last weekend I attended a conference call whilst sat on a rock at Gisburn, so its how you approach your workload.
Usual hours are 08:30 start and i'm home between 17:45 - 22:00 dependant upon current workload.
My boss regularly has dial-ins at 05:00, that would be unacceptable for me but i'm not earning 6 figures.
Most of the MBA holders I come across are thick as shite and can only get a point across by stating that they have an MBA!
Agreed, but most end up moving to corporate banking as they don't like real work 😆
I dont have a MBA but my counterpart who looks after the opposite side of the business does, I believe that once you have got yourself in a middle management position on merit, and you have then further proved yourself, the lack of MBA is not a limiting factor.
And YES - Excel knowledge is essential, i'm OK but would be stuck if I didn't have staff who are fist class in both Excel and Access. Also having patience with PP would be an advantage.
Good Luck
Nothing particuarly technical about Valdemorillo, lots of mud, a couple of granny ring climbs, singletrack, snow and fog. Great fun, well worth the money.
If I can get my arse in gear I'll probably give it a go next year.
What's all the talk about Spain?!
What's it got to do with you? My thread and we'll talk about Spain if we want, and what mogrim said. 😆
Cheers oxnop.
My first two questions would be.
Do you have a proven record of success in a sales leadership role during the last five years and in the type of company you want to work for?
Do you have evidence of successful over achievement of KPI's in a strategic marketing role in the type of company you want to work for?
Your competition will have and I would suggest that some of your comments seem slightly at odds with reality.
I recruit at this level every day. My clients are all large corporates. Without evidence of the above I could not consider you for senior roles of the type you described.
With all due respect joolsburger I said in the OP that I have been out of the corporate world for ten years so the answers to your two questions clearly has to be no, so sorry no commission from me. Fortunately the circles I move in have an opposing view to you, which is why I'm reconsidering a return.
Your competition will have and I would suggest that some of your comments seem slightly at odds with reality.
Would you care to explain further, please?
I recruit at this level every day. My clients are all large corporates. Without evidence of the above I could not consider you for senior roles of the type you described.
I'm impressed and feel quite honoured that you wouldn't consider me, I wouldn't actually consider you to represent me as you have made a decision on so little or such personal information. Might I suggest you do some research first. 😉
Apologies let me be clear, I don't represent candidates I work for my clients.
I am, for example, currently retained to secure a EMEA VP of Sales for a multi-billion dollar business, I would suggest that this fits the description, strategic sales position. My client requires the individual concerned to have clear target achievement in a comparable role over several years allied to considerable leadership skills and so forth. I did not suggest you do not have these. I simply enquired as it is the case that most corporates would expect recent and relevant experience.
I wish you every success in your potential search.
No need to apologise joolsburger you'd have to go a long way to offend me, I find it interesting that a multi-billion dollar business will exclude a huge pool of talent simply because someone has decided to step off the corporate ladder. If we are going to step into the territory marking side, the supply chain director of what is probably the second largest retail company in the world seemed to think that my 10 years away would not exclude me from the running, but infact the experience I have gained while away might be a bonus and although some of my skills would need brushing up, there wouldn't be a problem.
You still, however, haven't explained or expanded on your "attitude at odds with reality" comment, your wealth of experience and advice might just help me in my [i]potential[/i] search.
No, really, I wish you every success.
And I thank you with the same grace it was offered.
I'm guessing a lot of this squabling could be put to rest if we knew what you'd been up to in the last 10 years.
A spell in Her Majesty's would no doubt be viewed very differently to setting up own business or taking time out to raise children or travel etc...!!
colwyn58, at last someone who knows what the right question is. 😀 I see no squabbling either but I do see the element of corporate life that I thought might have matured a bit, but judging by the tag I was wrong. 😥
I have been self employed and running my own modest business, both of which change the focus of the product from a good to a person, and probably more importantly, networking. 😆
I have been self employed and running my own modest business, both of which change the focus of the product from a good to a person, and probably more importantly, networking.
aah, a trainer.
Given your seemingly arrogant dismissal of other people and their skills and opinions, I imagine you will fit in quite well in the corporate world. 😉
aah, a trainer.
aah, you've seen that I've said I'm a trainer in another thread then? 😉
Given your seemingly arrogant dismissal of other people and their skills and opinions, I imagine you will fit in quite well in the corporate world.
😆