To this day I still can't fathom out how and why the riots were able to happen... Has the UK learnt anything from this ? Or would the police still pussy foot around ???
Sorry, I don't understand.
Obviously if they'd been cyclists then they'd have been quelled pretty much instantly.
Obviously if they'd been cyclists then they'd have been quelled pretty much instantly.
Only if they were on 27.5", makes quelling riots come alive.
[url= http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_riots_in_London ]london riots[/url]
I remember William the Long Beard, he caused a right stink trying to introduce a new rear axle length.
Er, the police kinda lit the fuse didnt they? Dont think they were pussy footing around when they were 'dealing' with Mark Duggan.
Yes, I was in a tall office building in East London that day, we watched the palls of smoke appearing all over the place.
It was a bit worrying, and the cycle home to west London a bit interesting.
I blame the repeal of the riot act.
The topic tombola sure throws some strange ones out sometimes.
Yes, if only Churchill was still in charge, that'd have made things a lot better.
Has anyone blamed Thatcher yet?
A riot is the language of the unheard.
Martin Luther King, Jr.
Who ever hears of fat men heading a riot, or herding together in turbulent mobs? No - no, your lean, hungry men who are continually worrying society, and setting the whole community by the ears.
Washington Irving
I blame the social inequality, class divide and disillusionment of the lower classes who cant afford a 650B+ bike, or a Boost 110 fork.
It was to do with pudding, wasn't it?
If only the Home Secretary had authorised the use of 13 pounder field guns on the streets of London, we wouldn't be in the mess we are now.
It was to do with pudding, wasn't it?
That was the great fire.
That was the great fire.
Loving your work.
I think its inconsiderate to the families of the victims to call it a Great Fire.
Who ever hears of fat men heading a riot, or herding together in turbulent mobs?
It's only because they can't run fast enough
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What tyres for burning barricades?
I was in Canary Wharf at the time, mad to see it coming down the Avenue and heading this way, but behold CW Security.. Blimey they had armoured Tanks coming in a patrolling Waitrose.
We had a car burned out on Westferry road near the Island Gardens entry, but TBH thats happened before 😆
What tyres for burning barricades?
Maxxis Ignitors
Panaracer cinder
Fire XC Pro's.
Is this the proposed anti-Murdoch ones coming next week?
What tyres for burning barricades?
Maxxis Ignitors
Then panaracer fire xc for a quick getaway.
unfitgeezer - MemberTo this day I still can't fathom out how and why the riots were able to happen...
TBH I can't fathom how the kangaroo courts afterwards were able to happen.
Which principle of law do you suggest they ignored Northwind?
It did give us some interwebular gold, though, didn't it?
Wel gangzta, innit?
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ninfan - MemberWhich principle of law do you suggest they ignored Northwind?
Resident right-winger agrees that crimes against property should be treated with greater severity than crimes against the person shocker.
[i]"The average custodial sentence was 16.8 months - more than four times the average term handed down by magistrates' courts for similar offences."[/i]
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8695988/London-riots-Lidl-water-thief-jailed-for-six-months.html ]London riots: Lidl water thief jailed for six months[/url]
[i]A college student with no criminal record was jailed for six months on Thursday for stealing a £3.50 case of bottled water during a night of rioting.
Robinson’s previous good character and early plea of guilty to a non-dwelling burglary, as well as the low value of goods stolen, the fact he was in education, and his remorse, were in his favour. [/i]
[url= http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/more-half-uk-drivers-who-kill-cyclists-escape-jail-1457623 ]More Than Half UK Drivers Who Kill Cyclists Escape Jail[/url]
TBH i doubt he even wants to defends them [anywhere but here]
"Blimey they had armoured Tanks coming in a patrolling Waitrose."
The unarmoured ones weren't much of a success.
The unarmoured ones weren't much of a success.
They weren't even organic.
agrees that crimes against property should be treated with greater severity than crimes against the person shocker.
I reckon I can defer to the court of appeal on that...
[i]This is not new found sentencing policy. In the context of a riot in Cambridge some 40 years ago, this court observed:
"When there is wanton and vicious violence of gross degree the court is not concerned with whether it originates from gang rivalry or from political motives. It is the degree of mob violence that matters and the extent to which the public peace is broken…
Any participation whatever, irrespective of its precise form, in an unlawful or riotous assembly of this type derives its gravity from becoming one of those who by weight of numbers pursued a common and unlawful purpose. The law of this country has always leant heavily against those who, to attain such a purpose, use the threat that lies in the power of numbers…
In the view of this court, it is a wholly wrong approach to take the acts of any individual participator in isolation. They were not committed in isolation and, as already indicated, it is that very fact that constitutes the gravity of the offence."[/i]
There's a very extensive discussion on the seriousness of offences committed in association with a riot and the justification for sentencing in the [url= http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2011/2312.html ]judgement[/url], however I'm sure you would prefer to jump up and down and say 'it was only a bottle of water'....
Yes Z-11 I am fully aware that we live in a society which values property, specially property owned by industry and commerce, often higher than human life. Had Nicolas Robinson killed a cyclist through careless driving he more than likely would have escaped a prison sentence, however because he stole £3.50 worth of bottled water, something which he instantly regretted, he went to prison. You don't need to point that fact out - but thanks anyway.
Generally we sentence according to the severity of the crime, not the severity of the outcome - that's why an offence of [i]careless[/i] driving is sentenced more leniently that one of [i]dangerous[/i] driving, which is in turn less serious than manslaughter or murder through delbaretly driving at someone to injure or kill them
even if the tragic outcome is the same.
Yes you obviously think that a 6 month prison sentence is an appropriate punishment for stealing £3.50 worth of bottle water, despite plenty of evidence which suggests that the offender is extremely unlikely to re-offend. As I said - your stance is completely predictable. As is mine of course.
No - I think it's an appropriate sentence for looting a shop under the cover of a riot
😐
It's pretty much irrelevant whether it was a bottle of water or a flatscreen TV, it's the 'looting under the cover of a riot' that earns the sentence.
Now, Go on then, see how you do:
for the record i meant the 2011 riots !
What worried me was the alarming rate it went from bad to mental in such a short period of time absolutley lawless so when the Armageddon day comes when/whatever that may be society will break down in a matter of hours... scary...that was a taster of when something serious happens how little power the police have...
Tbh I'm surprised that there hasn't been more of the same. The gap between the rich and the rest continues to widen, another flashpoint is all that's required to get to that jump off point and it start again. Some truly reactionary sentences meted out to the protagonists.
that was a taster of when something serious happens how little power the police have...
I'm not sure what power you think the police are lacking. IMO the police did an excellent job of protecting the centre of Croydon during the rioting and looting - not a single shop behind the police lines was hit.
All the looting and damage was done to buildings beyond the reach of the police, although they did respond with considerable speed to isolated incidents, often arriving at the very early stages of looting and securing the buildings.
What more did you expect of them? They were limited by their numbers, although we did eventually have in Croydon police from as far as Wales paroling the streets.
.
although we did eventually have in Croydon police from as far as Wales paroling the streets.
As [i]far[/i] as Wales! Never mind Wales, you had a mob of Teuchters down there a couple of weekends running. My boys have Big Ben snowdomes to prove it 🙂
What worried me was the alarming rate it went from bad to mental in such a short period of time absolutley lawless so when the Armageddon day comes when/whatever that may be society will break down in a matter of hours... scary...that was a taster of when something serious happens how little power the police have...
What amused me was how a bit of rain seemed to kill them off. Who wants to riot in the rain?
Generally we sentence according to the severity of the crime, not the severity of the outcome
As it is not exclusively then the charge can still be made that it was excessive.