IDS voted
Cheers. I’m going to have to check the other names now… (never believe at face value what others post I suppose).
even if ALL Scottish MP’s voted against Fracking in Scotland, the UK Govt could easily win to Frack here.
Are you sure that isn't a devolved policy?
Those votes have changed. Truss is now listed as voting no.
Kwarteng is on the didn’t vote list. How fast things are turning.
Lots of big hitters on the list up there too.
I can understand DUP and Sinn Fein not voting, but why did so many Labour members not vote?
Sweet lord preserve us, she now gets her own thread.
Buckle up everyone
Hatter nailed it with his start to this thread. It’s like nothing I’ve ever seen in politics before. She’s so utterly useless and toxic she’s not only destroying the Tories but the word ‘incompetent’ has lodged a complaint about being associated with her.
Yup Johnson is on holiday (again) on the Carribbean, not sure which donor paid for it tho
Ah he’s become an energy nomad.
TBH he had a hard time getting Brexit done and the Covid partying so he needs the rest.
Anne Marie Travelian is presently is on radio 4 telling us it’s simply business as usual today and nothing has changed. Mad Lizzie will carry on delivering her growth agenda
She’s just been asked if she’s living in a parallel universe
Jesus wept! 😳
Sweet lord preserve us, she now gets her own thread.
Buckle up everyone.
Phew it’s been a month and what a ride.
Ah shroTrussingers vote,perhaps she didn’t vote hoping they would let her go.
I think that just what happened is that the Labour party created a situation whereby the Tories just forced all their MPs to vote for fracking? Something that goes against a clear manifesto promise, and against (I think) the clear will of the public.
I think that labour tried to stop fracking, and the tories trapped themselves with sheer stupidity and arrogance.
Sounds convenient, I voted No but my vote didn't register, now it's turned out like it has I can disclose that. If it had gone differently, I could have denied it.
Under normal times you'd accept the explanation, in current times you're suspicious about everything.
Anne Marie Travelian is presently is on radio 4 telling us it’s simply business as usual today and nothing has changed
Sadly she is right though. It is business as usual for this bunch of idiots.
I can understand DUP and Sinn Fein not voting, but why did so many Labour members not vote?
^^^This - can any of our own political big hitters explain please
Anne Marie Travelian
That ****ing thunder**** is my MP.
And she's being absolutely destroyed on ITV news just now...
but why did so many Labour members not vote
Because they were elsewhere. For everyone but the Tories it's business as normal effectively, so if it's not a vote you're likely to win you'd not go out of your way to be there. Most of the missing labour MPs are from the farther flung parts.
Cruella is set to deliver a parting speech in the commons this morning
Remember when Geoffrey Howe stood up behind Thatcher and quietly delivered a stiletto between the shoulder blades
Well it’ll be nothing like that
Picture it reimagined by ceebeebies
Maybe some of those. But Johnson? He’s just off on his jollies again. A work shy absent father of a politician. That he can still claim to be an MP is a mystery.
It tends to happen with all ex leaders, they go into hiding for a while, then reappear on the backbenches, i'd hazard a guess Truss and her team are requesting him to avoid Parliament, he's a showman who would love to revel in all her misery just now if he could!
I don’t like politics particularly and have no time for the he said she said behaviour it usually drives, but I have to say it seems like Liz Truss and the Conservative Party might be in danger of uniting the whole country! The whole situation is beyond parody.
Very refreshing to hear a politician (of any brand) speaking so openly:
I think we need a general election now (but agree the Tories will do all they can to avoid it)
Edit: Taken from another forum, before I’m accused of being a Grauniad reader 😀
I imagine Rishi is presently sat with his feet up by the pool in California, laughing his tits off and thanking the lord that he’s nowhere near this absolute ****ing shitstorm!
Apparently he's actually very active as a local MP (surprised me, I had him down as a stereotypical safe seat parachuted in absentee MP too).
Some other MP on before who was slating the government. Amazing bit of a mess. We have gone from Labour offering no opposition to Conservatives collapsing and will offer no opposition once Labour get its. Complete collapse.
I *think* that having the whip removed means your letter to the 1922 committee doesn't count (somewhere up thread a Tory MP was going on about how he would vote against the motion so he kept the whip and his letter still counted). So assuming a greater % of Tory MPs who abstained last night sent letters in than have those who voted, this makes Liz's position more secure. Also apparently the 1922 committee has decided they need letters from 1/3 of MPs (presumably not counting the whipless) to take action now and ignore the one year no-challenge period (I think that bit was a Peston tweet).
So it was all a masterful ploy to flush out opponents and de-whip them.
I can understand DUP and Sinn Fein not voting, but why did so many Labour members not vote?
^^^This – can any of our own political big hitters explain please
Because of Starmer, Corbyn, Blair, Michael Foot. Obviously.
Because they were elsewhere. For everyone but the Tories it’s business as normal effectively, so if it’s not a vote you’re likely to win you’d not go out of your way to be there.
It wasn't particularly about Labour winning the vote, that would have been a bonus - as said elsewhere it pushed the tory MP's into either voting against their leadership in a confidence motion, or against a divisive local issue manifesto pledge that will then be used against them at election time.
It was about seeing who'd do what.
The is it - isn't it a confidence vote just showed up the cock up in a brothel ineptitude. The scenes in the lobbies just shows up further how nasty some of them are, and hopefully has longer lasting sanctions to come. It's all icing on the cake.
May I’d abroad. I can imagine her being canvassed as a continuity PM 😉
Braverman to cosplay Howe. That speech in full. Worth a read. You don’t bring down a government very often.
https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1990/nov/13/personal-statement
Yup Johnson is on holiday (again) on the Carribbean, not sure which donor paid for it tho
He needs to get back jogging if he's still hoping for a bit of a comeback.
https://twitter.com/IamHappyToast/status/1582993797901713409
I am not in favour of a GE just now, I honestly think the tories need to do their winter of discontent as it will keep them out a lot longer, the voting public are not that switched on so will remember who was in charge when their life went tits up and lets face it the worst is still to come irrespective of who is in. The only fly in that ointment is how much more damage can they inflict on the country in the meantime.
It tends to happen with all ex leaders
He was the same as leader though. Anyway, there’s another thread for that. I’ll shut up. I was just pointing out his lack of a vote is unlikely to do with having “a small amount of integrity”… he has none.
Does feel like we're back to that BJ denial phase that the PM must go and we have to sit out another month that everyone knows the ending of.
Very refreshing to hear a politician (of any brand) speaking so openly:
Listen carefully to his words though. He's angry about
1. The damage done to the Party
2. The fact he never had a cabinet job
3. The fact ERG people did
4. Tory MPs are worried about losing their jobs.
He only adds at the last moment that he's worried about constituents. Even now, all he's actually worried about is his £85k/year with all expenses paid and subsidised meals gravy train hitting the buffers.
Just another bitter jealous self-serving Tory.
For Liz it must be like queuing for two hours for an Alton Towers ride that lasts about 15 seconds of screaming and vomit.
dazh
It does have consequences. If you plot a graph of the UK national debt vs GDP growth you’ll see that periods where the govt runs a surplus or lower deficits (ie the debt is being paid down) correspond to periods where we have a recession.
This all sounds very like religious dogma to me.
By that I mean it's written in a book that defines good and evil and self serving/fulfilling rules.
A recession is simply defined as 2 successive quarters when GDP doesn't grow... and that is to use a religious type term "evil" whilst increasing GDP is "good" and then everything else has to fit into that dogma.
Just to illustrate that take Singapore where the population is set to drop fairly dramatically (lets say 10% for illustration) over the next decade.
(also reducing the ratio of those that are productive) - following this dogma of "the great and mighty GDP" Singapore will be increasingly poorer by this measure if its GDP stays the same whilst the GDP/capita increases by 10%.
To look at this from the other side of the coin then this belief of the more you spend the better off you are ultimately means just increasing populations is the simplest lever to increase GDP regardless of how poor the quality of life of that population is.
What this seems to miss is the natural resources are finite. I'm including food not only iron, osmium or whatever here... some are finite over a period of time (food) and others finite in a strict sense (minerals).
If we are instead looking at services then why would anyone in a global and increasingly remote work economy then employ someone from the UK for something where no physical presence is required like a remote support or remote project manager etc??
From my simplistic point of view we are simply borrowing to spend... increasingly with no prospect of paying back the debt in terms of global currency in the longer term.
It wasn’t particularly about Labour winning the vote
It wasn't about winning the vote at all. It was a total trap to force conservative MPs to vote against the will of their constituents on a very emotive, yet also pointless vote, or vote against Liz/The Gov. and risk losing the whip. The ejection of those 39 MPs from the Tory party would be a massive score for Labour. It was a no win situation.
However the gov. may have managed to scrape out of it by saying at the (very) last second it wasn't a whipped vote, then proceeding to create basically a human corridor straight into the against vote in the lobby for conservatives. A minor breach of house rules but lets them get away with no sanctions for MPs as it wasn't a VOC after all... we shall see.
Listen carefully to his words though. He’s angry about
1. The damage done to the Party
2. The fact he never had a cabinet job
3. The fact ERG people did
4. Tory MPs are worried about losing their jobs.He only adds at the last moment that he’s worried about constituents. Even now, all he’s actually worried about is his £85k/year with all expenses paid and subsidised meals gravy train hitting the buffers.
Just another bitter jealous self-serving Tory.
There's got to be easier ways of earning £85k, it's a lot, but if you're clever enough you could probably have an easier time earning it by studying engineering, medicine or law at uni and having a straightforward career in any of those. So like engineering/medicine/law they probably do go into it for a mix of enjoying politics and wanting to make a difference. So like any other employee / company you'd be absolutely livid if the career you'd worked hard at was being systematically demolished by the incompetence of a new manager.
I've zero sympathy for the front bench, the ERG and those who got us into this mess.
I've equally got less time for the 6th form politics of Momentum on the Labour side or the SNP.
all he’s actually worried about is his £85k/year with all expenses paid and subsidised meals gravy train hitting the buffers.
He's already said he's not standing at the next election, so that bits not true, even if the rest is.
Listen carefully to his words though. He’s angry about
1. The damage done to the Party
2. The fact he never had a cabinet job
3. The fact ERG people did
4. Tory MPs are worried about losing their jobs.He only adds at the last moment that he’s worried about constituents. Even now, all he’s actually worried about is his £85k/year with all expenses paid and subsidised meals gravy train hitting the buffers.
Just another bitter jealous self-serving Tory.
That's exactly what I thought when I was listening to it. He seemed worried about the Tory party not the UK.
However, to be fair to him, he is standing down at the end of this term.
Is there perhaps a free Monarch we can import from a small European country to take over? That's (mostly) worked before. Worth a shot?
We all just need to be patient. If we can put up with this nonsense for another 16 days it’ll be November 5th and I get the feeling that the country might be up for a little historical reinactment.
it’ll be November 5th and I get the feeling that the country might be up for a little historical reinactment.
In that we all get caught, hung, drawn and quartered?? I'll opt for the V for Vendetta version thanks 😉
Hasn't she got to hang on until Oct. 31st to get her pension entitlement?
I reckon Starmer will be PM by Christmas.
Should a decision be made to have an ‘immediate’ election, what is the shortest amount of time that is required? And, what is a reasonably practical ‘shortest’ time?
It wasn’t particularly about Labour winning the vote, that would have been a bonus – as said elsewhere it pushed the tory MP’s into either voting against their leadership in a confidence motion, or against a divisive local issue manifesto pledge that will then be used against them at election time.
This. Clever bit of manoeuvring from Labour.
