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I find myself cringing every time I hear MJ's PYT.
Which is a shame because it's a great song.
Sounds plausible
Look up the work of the two designers I mentioned, their patents, prototypes, trade magazine articles, drawings… before Hitler got anywhere near the people’s car idea… also, note what happened to one of them… of course it was important that Hitler should take the credit for his pre-existing work, and that he was airbrushed out of the story… he was a Jew.
Thats all..
A wrong'un in a good way 🙂
Can't believe how many admit to liking Lost Prophets. Not cos he was a perve, but cos they were shit. Arf.
Thats all..
A wrong’un in a good way 🙂
Absolutely 🤠
As much as I like Ian Brown I do not like that he is a stoner. Hardly a bad crime I know but it still irrates me.
Very few musicians that are / were not. Certainly that means all reggae, most punk, most pub rock including Dr Feelgood ,all later beatles, lou Reed, Dr John etc etc
Love The Smiths and will always listen to them. Always thought Morrissey was capable of grade 1 bellendery but it's the band as a whole I listen to.
I like how 80% of contributors are talking about the thread, and 20% are talking about who drew the Beetle. Good old STW.
going by that hitler sketch he should have credit for the citeron ds not the beetle
I was a Lost Prophets fan. I thought I could listen to thefakesoundofprogress by dissociating the art from the artist (or one of them anyway). Turns out I couldn't and I didn't finish the album.
going by that hitler sketch he should have credit for the citeron ds not the beetle
The DS (and even more so the 2CV) rely heavily on the work of Josef Ganz.
Anyway… back to music… I’m lucky in that, apart from Morrissey, all my favourite artists have aged well… opinions wise… and at least we still have Marr.
On a wider note… Eric Gill is the person where I have the biggest conflict between work and person. Horrible human being, but such influential work. Very conflicting.
I was saying to someone the other day actually, imagine how good a band Marr could have been in if he'd never met Mozza.
On a wider note… Eric Gill is the person where I have the biggest conflict between work and person
Was just about to post about Eric Gill, my dad having been a great fan. Personally I'm happy enough to know that as long as evil b'stards aren't benefitting then what the heck.
Luckily I've stuck to vinyl & cd's and buy very little music these days so don't have to worry about who is rolling in the cash.
How's about Sizlers rather anti LBGT lyrics?
Look up the work of the two designers I mentioned, their patents, prototypes, trade magazine articles, drawings… before Hitler got anywhere near the people’s car idea…
Hitchens's razor.
going by that hitler sketch he should have credit for the citeron ds not the beetle
The sketch I saw was little more than a curvy line and similar to all the other cars of the era as far as I could see. But the argument isn't 'was it an original shape'. Or 'was it a detailed enough shape to be described as the truely the design of the shape'. The dispute is about whether he came up with it at all or whether he copied an existing design.
imagine how good a band Marr could have been in if he’d never met Mozza.
Seeing as most stuff he's done since the Smiths has been crap, I'm finding it quite hard to imagine.
Another Lost Prophets/Watkins tale here. They appeared to support every band in TJs from 1999 to about 2001, so it was fairly impossible to not bump in to them. Watkins always seemed alright, one of the other band members was a right knob. Fairly worried that it shows I'm the worst judge of character ever in retrospect.
Oh, and no danger of going back to listen to them because Debz is right, they were shit.
Seeing as most stuff he’s done since the Smiths has been crap, I’m finding it quite hard to imagine.
But The Smiths was his first successful band, Mozza stole all that youthful potential.
Best thing he did?
I must admit though, that when I read somewhere that he was a token pervert who enjoyed watching people get jiggy, whilst being w**ked off and having his titties chewed
Strange what some consider perverted. Seems perfectly normal to me.
I like how 80% of contributors are talking about the thread, and 20% are talking about who drew the Beetle. Good old STW.
Mussolini was a Pareto enthusiast too.
Makes you think...
Yep. Eric Gill the most gay rapey of the typographers.
And if we discuss Page (and I’m sure the STW legal team would rather we didnt) then Bowie has to be on the list. Goodbye to UFO, Hawkwind.... ahhh F it. The list goes on forever.
Marr-athon coming up…
One of my favourite bands of the last decade or so is Crystal Castles, however reports in recent years suggest the dude was a blatant wrong un' (I'll let you Google it if you're not aware).
Good job I've lost their CD I suppose.
This is still bloody good though...
And if we discuss Page (and I’m sure the STW legal team would rather we didnt) then Bowie has to be on the list. Goodbye to UFO, Hawkwind…. ahhh F it. The list goes on forever.
And the Rolling Stones, Iggy Pop, Bob Weir...
depends how close you feel to the artist and their music...
Wagner or whoever is distant in time and feeling for most if not all (he's not performed much in israel) and I most folk won't have a huge amount of personal identification with Tristan etc, so the music's just music.
With pop/rock and ahem youth culture, said the guy in his 50s, there is closer identification and feeling of being part of something. So who makes it and the vibe they put across is integral to the music.
Here it depends on what the original deal was. With the Fall say (who I never much liked but saw then four or five tines in the 70s and 80s) Mark E didn't particularly care what you thought. So he may well have been a mess of dodgy ideas (or not, I've just remembered 'I am curious orange' ballet music with Michael Clark) but it doesn't matter because you're not invited onside. Similar for middle class white audiences for some reggae and rap. It's sufficiently anthropologically distant that the news it may slightly encroach some feminist lines doesn't stop folk listening to it who'd react pretty vigorously were it coming from closer to home.
With stuff like the smiths, like it or not (and the first and only gig I saw them play I walked our of early slightly bored), for a lot of the UK audience it is close to home with the Manc vibe and young adult dislocation. here I agree with:
it’s OK to listen to MJ from before he probably got dodgy
smiths' music was on the side of the outsider, even if some later tropes may now be apparent (hang the deejay?). Crack on, doesn't matter what Moz did later, it was good then.
But with say Ryan Adams whose sins weren't the worst, it sounds like he was always a bit pathetic, it just took a while to come out, and so I can't listen to gold any more, which is a shame, but there we go. (Close to the John Peel/teenage groupies thing, some grown men who are into teenage girls tend to think this is normal - some views on this thread. It really isn't, they just don't know how they sound to the rest of us. Anyway, no need to llsten to led zep, thank ****)
It's a tricky one... R Kelly being a shady creep doesn't stop some episodes of his hip hopera from being pretty damn funny.
His music is still shite though and since he is indeed a shady creep, including blackmail n suchlike, I won't be sharing it
Then of course there's the whole Drake thing...
But he's once again, he's wack, so it's no great loss
How about Harvey Weinstein films?
Not necessarily something you'd immediately register as he doesn't generally make an appearance, but there's a helluva lot of em!
The list goes on forever
Yeah, as I already said, hours ago.
Those Marr videos, am I supposed to play them and go "Oh yeah! Much betterer than The Smiths!"?
And Electronic (I bought it!) - bland and ordinary (spot the hatred! Where?) and only got anywhere cos we all were interested in the individuals in the "supergroup". The reason why The Smiths divide opinion is because they were original and revolutionary. Nothing Morrissey or Marr did afterwards comes close. And I'm not that big a Smiths fan.
Anyway, this isn't a Smiths thread.
Think I posted similar thread a while back. Plenty of songs including Lost Prophets that I wish were covered by other artists so I’d feel good about listening to them.
I think Nick Cave is spot on. I would go further, I would say those who reject the artists work because of the artist are more likely to revere the artist, I prefer to like the work end of. I've never been a star struck hero worshipper type, I love the music not the person. Thats why if the person turns out to be a dick, or peado, I don't care.
I mean if the inventor of the uppy downy turned out to be a child raping cat strangler, would you go back to a nicely machined thompson and a hope QR?
I would argue that this is the problem with the world, too much hero worship of people of zero ****ing consequence.
Morrisey
MJ
Watkins
etc.
What exactly have they done of any real importance to warrant your love in the first place. Its just music, it doesn't change lives.
Anyone care to guess the sexual age of consent in Delaware in 1880, Hawaii in 2000 and Spain ten years ago. Spain is now 16 but much of Europe is still 14 with some provisos about age difference. Judge people by the laws in place at the time rather than now, on that basis some of the people cited above did no wrong. Some did but I'm struggling to think what Jonny Rotten did, he's always been worth listening to.
Its just music, it doesn’t change lives.
I think plenty would dispute that. But I agree with much of your post.
Taxi25 Yeah I get that, but I mean they are hardly heroes, its not brave and selfless to live your dream and become a rich and famous superstar..
@edukator.
His politics aren't universaly popular.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/jul/21/john-lydon-pil-palestinians
I'd still love to know what's wrong with Roger Waters ?
I'm surprised no-one's mentioned Eric Clapton. His outburst sparked the Red Wedge movement in the 70s didn't it? His excuse was drink and drugs.
Nor are Noel Gallagher's politics universally popular but I enjoy listening to him all the same. Rotten, Gallagher and Adam Boulton to moderate the debate, I'd watch that.
Edit: and what was wrong with red wedge?
I don’t mind s bit of Snoop/Dre tbh, do they count?
Not bothered with Ryan Adams since he was outed as a duffer. Shame.
Nothing was wrong with Red Wedge, it was a good thing. It was Clapton's nasty comments which drove Billy Bragg etc to tackle racism.
I’m surprised no-one’s mentioned Eric Clapton. His outburst sparked the Red Wedge movement in the 70s didn’t it? His excuse was drink and drugs.
Googling that lead me to this:
Sid Vicious and Siouxsie Sioux were sporting swastikas as fashion statements. David Bowie, who three months earlier had been photographed apparently giving a Nazi salute in Victoria Station, told Cameron Crowe in the September 1976 edition of Playboy '... yes I believe very strongly in fascism. The only way we can speed up the sort of liberalism that's hanging foul in the air... is a right-wing totally dictatorial tyranny...' In that same interview Bowie claimed that 'Adolf Hitler was one of the first rock stars.'
What the hell was going on in '76???
...and googling Jimmy Page and Bowie lead me to this:
https://allthatsinteresting.com/lori-maddox
and googling Jimmy Page and Bowie lead me to this
Yep... as I said on page 1.
I don’t think Hitler recorded many songs.
What the hell was going on in ’76???
People just said what they thought rather than dress it up as they do today. People are every bit as racist but find others ways of expressing it, by voting for example. People didn't do very well on a racist ticket back then now they do. Thinly veiled racism is still racism:
00:49
I think Nick Cave is spot on.
I think he was spot on ten years ago when most of my listening was done on CDs. Now most of my listening is done on spotify and every play gives money to shady people (or their rights owners).
Dunno what the solution is. Pirate Bay and then play from local files via spotify? Is it OK to steal music to avoid giving money to despicable individuals who happen to have made really good music?
If we stopped listening and reading and looking at art made by wrong uns, we'd soon run out. Paul Gaugain, TS Elliot, Conrad, Caravaggio Ted Hughes all be in the bin.
Dunno what the solution is
I buy most of my CDs (non-new artists) from eBay. Only Music Magpie gets any money then (hopefully their CEO isn't a Tory).
^ Yes that lower left window is entirely ‘off.’ The perspective is evil af and it has 7 panes where the others have only 6. It feels like that one window is not only looking at you, but right through you
*shudder*