[Closed] Lets talk about Man Utd

In some respects, I feel sorry for Moyes. Poisoned chalice, acclaimed predecessor and err, well those two.

In all other respects, I don't. Getting rid of coaching continuity was his first decision and faux pas.

He would make a very good Championship manager and if I were to offer him any career guidance at this time, it would be that and in five years or so, he could have another go at being a mid-table premiership club.

Although, I imagine his severance deal would enable him not to bother with any of it any more. It's all about knowing one's limitations innit?

[i]Anyone who thinks Giggs should be given a crack is insane[/i]

I'm not sure who is qualified to say Giggs would be a bad choice, as I think he has as good a chance of anyone to succeed. I think someone who is still playing the game, yet is 40 yrs old and worked at the highest level for his whole career knows exactly what is needed.

What we don't know is if his personality is up to it....the media pressure, tactics etc. One way to find out!

He took over a club at the top,the champions who had won the Premier league by 11 points,have one of the best academy and a top worldwide player/club feeder system,are the biggest club in the world,the best supported etc etc,had £100+ million to spend,had plenty of time a full pre season -more than Pellgrini did and all he had to was finish in the top 4.Instead he has broken more records for cr*p perfromance and has led United to an all time premier low points wise.That really takes something and it isn't more time.

When Ferguson took over at united, he inherited a fantastic squad, by far the most expensive squad assembled in England at that time maybe even the world. Every bit the equivalence of the current City or Chelsea teams.
But it was a squad, given it's abundance of talents, very much under performing.
Whereas Moyes has taken over a squad that pretty much everyone accepts has over performed for the last couple of seasons, especially last season.

In my opinion, Moyes was faced with a much harder task than Ferguson was, not just because of the extreme expectation that now exists, but because it is easier to do something with an under performing team than it is with one that has overachieved. I know which position I would rather be in. And iirc in those first few years in charge Ferguson had a couple of mid table finishes.

My brother a die hard Red signed a petition at work a few weeks back calling for everyone to get off Moyes's back and to stick with him.It was only later he realised it had been devised and passed round by City fans 😀

dooosuk - Member
Where will Moyes end up? Swansea, Norwich? It's a long road back for his career now.

Personally, if I was sitting on a severance package like his and the stress etc the job had caused me over the last 10months I'd walk away from the game and not chase future glories, which can only end badly IMHO.

moyes would be welcomed a wealth of places

nick1962 - Member
It was only later he realised it had been devised and passed round by City fans

😆

That reminds me of city having an online vote to what one of the stands would be called when they moved into wastelands. All the united fans got on and voted for it to be named after Colin Bell, so it would then be known as the Bell End 😆

Ok. Can they give Moyes his job back? Sick of 5Live jizzing their pants over the story, who is going to replace him, what he had for dinner before being sacked, was it the sandwich he had last Friday that was the final straw etc etc.

Tony Pulis to keep us up next season

Man U fans - who do you want to replace him? And who do you think it will be?

The one positive about all of this is that Morinho didn't get the job last year which hacked him off enormously !

Negative for me is that I wanted to see Van Gaal at Spurs and there must be a good chance he goes to ManU now.

[i]Man U fans - who do you want to replace him? And who do you think it will be?[/i]

I'm not a Man U fan, but apart from Van Gaal who appears to be available , who else is there? I mean obviously there are decent managers out there, but such is the situation they would inherit and the pressure to get immediate results, you would wonder who would leave a good existing club to go there?

When Ferguson took over at united, he inherited a fantastic squad, by far the most expensive squad assembled in England at that time maybe even the world. Every bit the equivalence of the current City or Chelsea teams.
But it was a squad, given it's abundance of talents, very much under performing.
Whereas Moyes has taken over a squad that pretty much everyone accepts has over performed for the last couple of seasons, especially last season.

Mwahhahahah – WTF you on about – a fantastic squad me hole...
It was a bunch of underachieving pissheads with a few big names, had won bugger all since ’67 – SAF had replaced nearly 20 players before he won that FA cup 3 years later. But not only did he sort out the dross he invested a shitload into the youth setup, sorted out training so players were a lot fitter with better endurance and eating properly plus increased the number of scouts and coaches. The overperforming UTD has been top 2 in the Prem for the last 8 years, which included 2 Cl finals… maybe that’s their level and people forget it’s a team sport?
In a similar way to Brendan Rodgers, SAF showed things were moving in the right direction, positive changes were being made and when that happens you can see why managers are given time.
Moyes has taken the PL champions, added Mata (one of the best players from our rivals) and Fellani and dropped them down to his level (7th, and 20 odd points off the top), in the process he’s managed to mismanage his squad rotation (52 different teams as I recall, but played Rio for 8 games straight at the start of the season with his knackered back, dropped Nani into the Everton match when he wasn’t match sharp, but he could have been brought on when we were beating Newcastle/west brom), repeatedly thrown Valancia/Smalling in the right back position despite them proving again and again that they are “emergency” options there only and don’t get me started on his press conferences…. “Liverpool coming here as favourites”, “we enjoyed ourselves in the CL..”, “We aspire to be like Real Madrid, Barca etc…”

The one thing he appears to have gotten right was changing the goalie coach, although Steele was the one that has bulked up saveydavey and woods has benefitted.

I'd love to go back and find the bit where someone said "Utd are not a sacking club..."

and I said "you don't know that, they've never been in a position to have to sack their manager before as they've been winning".

But I cant' be bothered lol.

I'm only shocked it took so long to be honest... he got exactly what his results/performances deserved.

Mwahhahahah – WTF you on about – a fantastic squad me hole...

Well no one else had splashed the cash like united had at that time, they had won the FA cup twice in the years preceding fergi's reign, and were in the top 4 for the previous 5 years, but even so they were considered to be a team that should have been doing better with the squad they had.

All footballers were boozy smokers then, they all had bad diets and didn't understand fitness. There was relatively easy progress to be made in modernising training methods then, changes that cannot be made any more.

I know united fans want to rewrite history, but the reality is fergi took over a top squad, and struggled with it for a few years. In his first year he finished lower than Moyes, and in 4 of his first 5 years he finished lower than Atkinson ever had.

MSP - Member

Mwahhahahah – WTF you on about – a fantastic squad me hole...

Well no one else had splashed the cash like united had at that time, they had won the FA cup twice in the years preceding fergi's reign, and were in the top 4 for the previous 5 years, but even so they were considered to be a team that should have been doing better with the squad they had.

All footballers were boozy smokers then, they all had bad diets and didn't understand fitness. There was relatively easy progress to be made in modernising training methods then, changes that cannot be made any more.

I know united fans want to rewrite history, but the reality is fergi took over a top squad, and struggled with it for a few years. In his first year he finished lower than Moyes, and in 4 of his first 5 years he finished lower than Atkinson ever had.

Football was a completely different sport back then, far less corporate. The owners were completely different... the whole thing doesn't bear a seconds comparioson.

Yes I know, just replying to the mythical notion that Fergi took over a crap team an Moyes took over world beaters.

[img] [/img]
Well I guess it's all fixed again....

Giggs out!

Pretty impressive run of results by Sunderland (apart from beating united, which isn't at all impressive)

I'd be worried if I were a man u fan seems to me like the players now have control & don't want to lose it. It would explain the moaning from a few of them about a strict disciplinarian potentially coming into the club...

.Pretty impressive run of results by Sunderland (apart from beating united, which isn't at all impressive)

Agree entirely. Sorry about United's current predicament, but I think Poyet is going places - maybe not at Sunderland, though! 🙂

Giggs out!

I wont be able to use that joke for much longer 😥

He has some years to go before he can match Wengers level of fail

😥

I'm glad they lost, it shows it's the team which has let the club down not the manager. All this madness over Giggs getting the job permanently.

Marouane Fellaini really is not having a good time.

James Wilson is getting bigged up a [i]little[/i] bit too much.

Ryan Giggs is warming up.

Can someone explain to me why Manu U think they can sign players from clubs like Bayern Munich ? Man U have no Champions League next year and quite possibly the year after, they are certainly not going to win the PL next season so it's the League and FA cup to play for. Whoop-di-do.

£150m on transfers might not be enough to get them a top 4 next season.

Scholes hit the nail on the head with the club and Rooney, a desperation signing, way past his best and a huge 5yr contract as a reward. There is a reason SAF fell out with Rooney, he told him "you're not good enough"

they are certainly not going to win the PL next season

Would you bet your house on that?

Would you bet your house on that?

Yup.

@the-muffin-man - no I would not, I would not bet my house on anything. I'll do a tenner.

Man City will be better. Chelsea will be a lot better. Liverpool will be strong again. Arsenal will be there or thereabouts.

In fact I'll do a tenner they don't make the CL spots (ie they are 5th or lower)

Scholes hit the nail on the head with the club and Rooney, a desperation signing, way past his best and a huge 5yr contract as a reward. There is a reason SAF fell out with Rooney, he told him "you're not good enough"

Oh its far, far worse than that. They gave Nani a new contract. Thats not a sign of desperation, thats a sign of clinical insanity 😯

£150m on transfers might not be enough to get them a top 4 next season.

True. As Spurs so effectively demonstrated last season. But I think its more about the pedigree of the manager they bring in, than the money. Fergie proved you can massively over-achieve 2 seasons ago, with an average, ageing squad. The combination of a new manager making some shrews buys (of players who want to come and work with him), and getting the most out of the players who aren't performing, should see us back in the top 4. Maybe. It'll still be a work in progress though. So maybe not. But it'll be Chelski/City battle next season for the top spot.

@binners - yes Spurs showed that one special player at £100m is worth more than 4 expensive journeymen. Levy felt he had to spend all the money but he should not have. Willian was a big miss when he went to Chelsea. Levy's handling of the managerial position has been a disaster, Harry out AVB in was a massive mistake they are still struggling with.

Perhaps we should have a guess as to where Fellini is going to end up, one of the promoted clubs ?

Perhaps we should have a guess as to where Fellini is going to end up, one of the promoted clubs ?

Shaktar, Galatassaray

Training with the reserves WTF would buy him now?

Can someone explain to me why Manu U think they can sign players from clubs like Bayern Munich ?

They will double their salaries basically- I would say fan base, world wide appeal,increased sponsorship a world class manager but you will only argue about those.

I'll do a tenner they don't make the CL spots

IMHO liverpool had a great season this year but the second one is always harder and they need a bigger squad than this year, their defence is dodgy and Europe will be a distraction. I would not be so sure about them - One injury to Suarez or Gerrard is enough to derail them

One injury to Suarez

Really ? Consdiering how much of the season he missed, I'm not so convinced.

I'll do a tenner they don't make the CL spots

I'll take that one as well please?

He played 33 games in the EPL last year

TBH that surprised me so i double then tripled checked it

http://www.espnfc.com/player/_/id/125088/luis-su%C3%A1rez?cc=5739

Sturridge played less often - 29 games!
http://www.espnfc.com/player/_/id/85291/cc/5739

I got lucky there to be fair both those surprised me

I'll take that one as well please?

little tip for you Binners...never back your own team with money...the emotion gets in the way! The way to make money in footie betting is betting with people who are backing their own team!

I'm owed £200 spurs over Arsenal finish in PL
I'm owed £10 for Bale not scoring 30 goals this season
I'm owed £10 Man Utd non CL places.

by the way I'll have a tenner on that all happening again next season.

I will give you the first two

Has bale ever scored 30 goals in a season ?
When did Spurs last finish above arsenal?
Who would bet on that?

The funny thing was Junky, he was a Man Utd fan and said Bale would score 40 goals.....when I said how much? He said...okay 30!

Just remembered I won another bet with a Man U fan who wanted to bet me £100 spurs above AFC when they had just bought all their new players. I said I was still owed £200 from someone else so I'd be generous and make it a tenner. 😀

Spurs over Arsenal could be a decent bet for next season, IMHO, depending on Rockape's prices.

Spurs are a total circus of a club, lashed 100 million down the karzi as far as last season was concerned, and they still got 69 pts with a comedian at the helm. You'd have to say there's a v good chance they'll improve.

little tip for you Binners...never back your own team with money...the emotion gets in the way!

Indeed. A mate of mine has put 20 quid on City, at the start of ever season they've been in the Premiership. Firstly to curse them (as he says he never ever wins), and to make it easier to swallow if they did! 😀

In the same way, I find Fantasy Football **** with your head too. I found myself wanting Suarez to score, as I had him as my captain, then having a horrible realisation what I was wishing for, and then feeling violated and filled with self-loathing

[i]Spurs over Arsenal could be a decent bet for next season, IMHO, depending on Rockape's prices.[/i]

There are no prices....its a straight bet and you'll always get some spurs Mug willing to part with their dosh! 😀

The funny thing was, it was a Man U fan last time! (takes all sorts)

Seems like Man U are pulling out of the Kroos transfer now. Thought that one was sewn up. I wonder if van gaaaaaal has heard Kroos was only using Man U to engineer a better deal with Bayern? Or maybe Fabregas transfer is back on as reports suggest he's surplus to requirements at Barca

Fellani needs to go, at least they'll save on his wages even if they lose £15m on the transfer. He'll never be good enough- too slow (mind and body)

Also, imho nani was only given a new contract to protect his transfer value, otherwise he'd have gone for nothing this summer. His wages didn't go up. Probably a good decision by the club as they might get £10m for him if another club don't do their homework!

Edit- hope rumours of he Robben transfer are true. He's lost a bit of speed but he's still a class act

Also, imho nani was only given a new contract to protect his transfer value, otherwise he'd have gone for nothing this summer.

Twice what he's worth? 😯

According to the press, Fabragas has been pretty keen to come to United for a good while. They just weren't prepared to let him go. That appears to have changed

@Junkyard - I think Bayern players care more about trophies, playing for PeP

@Junkyard and @binners - you're done ! I couldn't afford to lose my house but I can handle £20.

@Garry - you made me chuckle

@Rich not sure I'd describe Robben as a class act, he's certainly a fine player though. He might be a bit overweight next season based on the amount of humble pie following the derogatory comments he made about Real's lack of ambition after the SF first leg.

According to the press, Fabragas has been pretty keen to come to United for a good while. They just weren't prepared to let him go. That appears to have changed

Pretty sure Utd were used as a bargaining tool for Kroos and Bayern called his bluff.

Which press, everything I've read has him talking up Arsenal. He's a Barcelona lad I doubt he'll leave

I think Bayern players care more about trophies, playing for PeP

If another company offered to double my wages I'd move in a heartbeat. Not sure why we expect footballers to be any different

Although it would be nice if they paid tax

Although it would be nice if they paid tax

There are lots of schemes they can use. One involves the salary being paid to an offshore company, which then 'loans' the player this amount every month at 0%. The loan is tax exempt.

At £260k per week I suspect they can employ very good financial advisors!

Edit- not saying they're all at it but a good number are. Gets reported every now again in the national media but no one seems to pay much attention.

Can we please have a thread on here that doesn't mention TAX! 👿

Sorry!

Seems the Fabregas rumours are gathering a little bit of momentum. Although I think £20m for Kroos would have been the better deal; not sure if cesc can be the box to box midfielder he was at Arsenal.

@RicB - the loan is a benefit in kind, taxable. HMRC aren't totally daft. The image rights are more complex but the salaries are caught.

@Roackape - yes indeed, we haven't mentioned that political party though, the one with UK in the name.

they've missed out on Cesc Fabregas as he's signed for chelsea.

Oops...

Heh.

Odd from the manager as he has pulled the plug on two midfielders [ cesc and Kroos] - its not like we are awash with midfield talent and seems to want more strikers....the only part of our team that are ok

Worried about another Moyes season....no signings some crap late ones and another poor season.
Perhaps we will can play with one up front five in the hole

Which press, everything I've read has him talking up Arsenal. He's a Barcelona lad I doubt he'll leave.

Agreed it's not looking good at ManU so far. Manager coming in and focusing on the big stuff like spending £4m digging up brand new training pitches to replace them with plastic grass so the team can train twice a day.

Oh my...

[img] [/img]

[s]Is that just for the US Tour ?[/s] Just seen the new sponsor stuff - yuch !

New season kit
FUGLY

Is there not rules about logo size?

Inside the collar features a red / white inner pride label ‘Youth, Courage, Greatness’ which represents the club’s values.

What we all think of when we think of the theatre of dreams

Oh my...

By far, far, better than some teams who are sponsored by money lenders and gambling sites IMO.

Don't know why this is allowed. Might as well just advertise shit like Benson Hedges too.

It's no Sharp.

[img] [/img]

By far, far, better than some teams who are sponsored by money lenders and gambling sites IMO.

Don't know why this is allowed. Might as well just advertise shit like Benson Hedges too.

Referring more to the look of the thing, Hora. Quite rare to see such a big logo on a shirt. Usually mostly text based.

Doesn't look that bad. Chevrolet getting their ad space but hey ho...

'This shirt belongs to you, always has, always will...'

Well, if you give them £55, it does. 🙂

Might as well just advertise shit like Benson Hedges too

your a silk cut mild man then?

@Jamie, tat's excellent. Look how far the game has come in terms of commercialism.

It's no Sharp

A £300,000 a week chap who struggles on the world stage. How would he fair against Europes best etc?

Not in europe so not a problem 😉

Hold on I have got it, it is the special Fellani shirt

Aim here for most success 😉

SIDEBAR: HOra - did you get my e-mail re routes as you never replied.

The last one was a figure of 8/going to ask Donk?

New Everton kit pulls off the logo shirt quite nicely, I thought.

[img] [/img]

nope will resend bear with me

Its awful because the Chevrolet logo was designed by American. From that point on, you're always fighting a losing battle.

Could be a lot worse though. At least its pretty plain. We're not drifting down the frankly inexplicable route Liverpool went down last year, with the 80's revival, puuuuuuuurple shell-suit-esque garb.

[url= http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-sick015.gi f" target="_blank">http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-sick015.gi f"/> [/img][/url]