[Closed] Learners on motorways

Texting, shaving, applying makeup and eating cornflakes.

All at the same time.

Snoozing safely

Fitting contact lenses/eye drops

Approaching M-may, 40mph in outside lane on slip road, braking hard cos er, you can't filter into 70mph traffic while going that slow. Multiple looks over shoulder cos your mirrors aren't adjusted to see what is coming.

Signalling your demand for the driver in front to pull in as you are much more important than them by driving <6 inches from their rear bumper.

Oh and, every young driver needs to know that the ONLY place you indicate is the right indicator to get onto the M-way. Otherwise that stalk is surplus to requirements.

Going by my trip around the M25 on Saturday, the ability to drive three lanes deep at 50mph with not quite enough space to get another car in.

Oh and, every young driver needs to know that the ONLY place you indicate is the right indicator to get onto the M-way. Otherwise that stalk is surplus to requirements.

...unless you're in the outside lane, six inches behind the car in front , in which case it's permissible to indicate right to really drive home the point that you wish to overtake.

See also: Full beam.

tailgating (but that's more important for the HGV test)

also practice how close you can get to 70 in an average speed camera 50 zone thru roadworks (again, especially for the commercial drivers whose licence is a critical requirement for their job)

Indicate, wait for bulb to flash once and then pull straight into non-existent gap causing car to brake

Turning round in your chair to administer a couple of judicious slaps to the  two kids fighting on the back  seat.

Plenty of learner drivers already “driving” on Motorways...

At least this initiative does give learners some “guidance” ..

Which I’m all in favour of.

Pissing* into an empty Red Bull** can at 80mph.

*Male learners only

**Other caffeine based, tinned beverages are available.

Pissing* into an empty Red Bull** can at 80mph.

That's impressive. I don't think I could maintain that amount of pressure.

Usually slow to a sedate 5mph dribble towards the end.

You must not pee a lot. I'd struggle not to overflow a monster energy can never mind a tiny red bull one.

Pro tip : Lucozade or Oasis bottles have a much wider neck.

ooh get you Bertie Bigballs

Not me..... 2 sons with poor aim.

..and that's why your car smells like a care home 😉

Pro tip : Lucozade or Oasis bottles have a much wider neck.

Ah, but training isn't required. Cans take proper skill. Especially the switch between to prevent overflow, as pointed out by km79.

Pure amateurs...

Everyone knows these are what you need for the discerning driver on a longer journey ...

Always thought it was crazy that you could pass your test without ever having driven on  motorway, at night or in the pee'ing rain.. ...

Always thought it was crazy that you could pass your test without ever having driven on motorway

but there are no real unique skills required for the motorway - there's plenty of slip roads onto dual carriageways and they are often shorter so more of a test.

What else is there, the driving lane is on the left, just the same ?

Apparently the vehicle has to have dual controls and the learner very close to sitting their driving test ..but yep ..long overdue .

TurnerGuy..

An extra lane for starters and generally  vehicles travelling a lot faster ..

Hope they teach them what the three lanes are for

Left - slow

Middle - Fast

Right - Fasterer

Edit - Not serious.

Approaching M-may, 40mph in outside lane on slip road, braking hard cos er, you can’t filter into 70mph traffic while going that slow. Multiple looks over shoulder cos your mirrors aren’t adjusted to see what is coming.

I thought it was de rigeur to barge on expecting those already on the motorway to leap out of the way into the path of faster moving traffic.

There are only two rules:

1) Whoever is in front of you is a target.

2) Whoever is behind you is a threat.

True story, I actually said that to a Driving Standards Evaluator (or some equally joyless job title) who you had to spend half a day with before you could have your company car back in the day. It was clearly a joke, I laughed, he... actually I don't know what you call whatever he did to react, but it was clear he knew it was meant to be humorous and then I drove like an absolute saint, I didn't drive that well on my test. Mirror-signal-manoeuvre, ten to bloody two on the wheel at all times. Didn't speed, I was gracious and graceful behind the wheel.

The prick wrote it down and told my boss that he thought I had aggressive tendencies behind the wheel and was only behaving myself because he was there.

An extra lane for starters and generally vehicles travelling a lot faster ..

serously ?

An extra lane presents a problem ?

It is just one extra overtaking lane, nothing special, if you can cope with the driving lane being on the left and there being an overtaking lane, you can surely cope with there being two overtaking lanes?

And not much faster as most dual carriageways are NSL so just as fast and probably more crowded to get onto.

If you have problems with those two things then perhaps you are not ready for a driving test.

And dual-controls - if your instructor is not confident enough in your abilities that he needs dual-controls then you are really not near ready for a driving test.

I think motorways are different, not saying half the lessons need to be on there, but at least clock a couple of hours on the motorway to get used to changing lanes confidently, average speed sections, changing speeds of cars between the lanes etc, i have met a number of adults that drive, yet won't travel on motorways as they find it different.

Again, as above, i think that some of your lessons should be at night and there should be bad weather training at a skid-pan or similar. Think how many accidents involving younger drivers are where they get their first independence and are driving at night, and/ or where they have lost control of the vehicle and spun or left the road?

In the same way, they should teach them to deal with cyclists and horses and other vulnerable road users correctly from the off.

those already on the motorway to leap out of the way into the path of faster moving traffic.

Oh yes, there is that other skill of moving into the middle lane 5 miles before the next on-ramp, just in case someone might want to join the m-way.

serously ?

An extra lane presents a problem ?

Er, why else have they just decided to allow "Learners on motorways"??

there should be bad weather training at a skid-pan or similar

that would be a very good suggestion.

Er, why else have they just decided to allow “Learners on motorways”??

to get a headline ? divert from other news ?

the main problem with motorways for those who dislike them seems to be getting on to them from the slip road, probably not enough spacial awareness to make them feel comfortable turning their head to look out the side/rear windows and instead rely on their side mirrors.

Why don't learners have to go over to Europe to learn to drive on the other side of the road - that's more of a challenge than another lane, surely?

They could do that here. As long as they have dual control.

As long as they have dual control.

if they are close to be able to taking their test, and therefore supposedly somewhat competent, why do they need a car with dual controls ?

I can't believe they still don't go near a skid pan & getting learner drivers to feel what it's like when the car moves in unexpected directions. The first time a car skids the usual result is panic then bang. Even if you know the theory it all goes out the window

why do they need a car with dual controls ?

Er, fergidaboudit.

These days, thanks to ABS / DSC and other safety net electronics, luckily the classic 'PANIC' reaction when the car "unexpectedly" starts skidding of braking is actually not a bad one!

(ive put unexpectedly in quotes because ime, it's most often not the least bit unexpected, it's just the driver hasn't spotted the blatantly obvious warning signs.)

I'd also say that an a skid pan test is practically useless, as the average driver will have not intrinsically (ie muscle memory,not conscious thought) learn't the necessary response, esp. in a panic situation.   IME, doing high speed driver training, something that does work is putting the driver into a car that can be caused to suddenly spin (we used a modified ABS system to lock a front wheel and pitch the car into a spin), getting them to cruise up to 70 mph on a wide ex airforce base runway, and then without warning spinning the car!

Call it shock tactics, but it tends to be a lesson that is remembered, as the average driver really doesn't like going backwards at 70mph, especially when you after you've stopped you get out, look at the skid marks, generally covering pretty much all the width of the runway, and say "fancy that happening on the M1 in rush hour??

Leaving a service station and joining the A1 using the tiny slip road is far more dangerous than any motorway I've ever been on.

Er, fergidaboudit.

is that because you can't explain why someone who is suppossed to be pretty close to a competant driver already would need to be nursemaided to this degree ?

Twice in the last year I have worked with people who have admitted they "didn't know" that they could drive in Lane 1. They thought it was for trucks.

One of them had literally found out the week prior; the other was completely oblivious.

Even yesterday we attended a party about 45 mins away from home by motorway. A lady there had chosen to get there by A-roads as she doesn't do motorways and never has. Someone else had refused the invitation (kid's 8th birthday) because of the drive.

This new rule/idea is A Good Thing.

When I'm in power mandatory 5 year relicensing will be in force.

TurnerGuy - are you being deliberately obstinate?  Nobody is insisting learners MUST do the training, what they are doing is giving them the option.  They have always had the option to go for a lesson after passing their test but uptake of that is relatively low (possibly because it costs extra - by making it seem like it is part of the pre test cost it doesn't seem like an extra, and possibly because nobody* likes to think they are not an automatic driving god).

Research suggested that a significant number of newly qualified drivers were intentionally avoiding M-ways, which was part of the motivation to allow pre-test training.  The fact people are highlighting the issues they see with driving behaviour on motorways seems to suggest there is a need for training.

In some parts of the country you can clearly gain similar experiences to simple motorways from dual c/way but not every DC is comparable, and certainly some m/ways are very different.  How many learners live close to such "pseudo motorways" though compared to motorways.

*obviously some admit this, and e.g. I did go for a motorway lesson after passing my test - I'm not sure I had ever properly had to overtake anyone to pass my test, city test centre (like most people) and certainly no DC > 50 mph that I can think of.

is that because you can’t explain why someone who is suppossed to be pretty close to a competant driver already would need to be nursemaided to this degree ?

Well its a moot point because there is no actual requirement for the driving instructor to determine they are of a particular standard before heading for a Mway - it would just obviously be a stupid thing to do on lesson 1!

However dual controls seems like a wise choice for what is likely to be the first time someone has driven at 70 mph who has yet to independently verify their driving skills even at lower speeds.  At those speeds reacting to any hazards needs to be swift.  Insurance stats show that plenty of newly qualified drivers are likely to get their judgement wrong so I don't see why you wouldn't want an extra defence for the not yet qualified, why do you think it is stupid?