we've just picked up a new to us (but from 2019) VW tiguan that has lane assist. I went for a quick drive in it, and thought it was just tramlining really badly under certain circumstances, but its the lane assist trying to do something when it shouldnt.
Then I went round a corner, and felt the steering wheel tugging a bit like you used to get with older FWD cars when turning under power - thought it was torque steer ,but no, its lane assist.
This is my first car with lane assist and its bloody awful - I presume from this thread that it will just turn itself back on next time I start the car.
I dont really see how this system can be considered a good thing, who needs it?
I dont really see how this system can be considered a good thing, who needs it?
All the folk who are texting as they're driving down the motorway....
I dont really see how this system can be considered a good thing, who needs it?
Those who go around a corner and drift over slightly.
Left-right-left surely should be right-left-right though, unless I’ve misunderstood what you’re referring to?
I am talking about turning right at a junction Look left, then right, then left again to see if it’s safe to go.
We have just got a 22 plate Polo with this function on it, and I had already googled how to switch it off !
We live in the countryside and it always 'tugs' at the steering wheel. It is annoying that you cant switch it off full stop but I can live with it. In 5/6 yrs time this will be the car that our son learns to drive in, and quite frankly I cant see how this feature will help him learn as the car tries to pull him left and right.
Its not an intuitive system to use. In theory you can take your hands off and it will drive itself for a little while, but then it almost appears to give up and not work. IMO it appears to work when you want it least and not when you want it most.
Our other a Merc system is much better, there are 2 buttons on the dash where you can turn off either steering support and or adaptive cruise. The Merc you can easily drive for miles not touching the accelerator or brake, and to some extent steering wheel (although you have to touch it every 30 seconds). That system allows you to indicate and it will change lanes automatically too. I do know one section of motorway where it can be driving itself and it will slam the brakes on for no reason whatsoever, I always remember to disengage it now on that section.
The VAG option looks like meeting the minimum standard necessary to tick a box without making a useful tool. (I wish you could just switch it off) but its not the end of the world.
I dont really see how this system can be considered a good thing, who needs it?
Are you seriously suggesting all drivers are excellent and always pay attention? You. might not need it, but you'll be glad of it when that person coming the other way who was drifting over the line and would've hit you has it.
They do vary in implementation. Hyundai get a lot wrong with their UI but their lane-assist is alright. If you take your hands off the wheel and it activates i.e. you've drifted, it will loudly complain at you but still jerk the wheel, I think for the first time. It loudly complains about a lot, but in this case I think it's justified as not having your hands on the wheel in a corner is a significant issue :). When driving normally it does have its moments but it does ramp up the feedback somewhat rather than suddenly jerking.
It does rather sound as if VW's implementation is poor. I think that if it's now mandatory they will put a bit more effort into the system and perhaps deploy some better AI to analyse the road ahead.
@FunkyDunc I am disappointed that option wasn't specced on my car - it's far too complex to retrofit as well.
@FunkyDunc I am disappointed that option wasn’t specced on my car – it’s far too complex to retrofit as well.
At the time I bought the car I was looking at 5 series or E Class and this was the only car I saw in 6 months that had it as an option, I know I ended up paying quite a premium in the price of the car for it, but it has actually held its value higher too when looking at resale values on WBAC etc. Its been the best driving aid Ive had on a car in terms of taking the stress out of driving.
I dont really see how this system can be considered a good thing, who needs it?
To be fair when I first got my E-Class it felt huge and it did save me from driving in to a car in my blind spot on a roundabout. It steered and braked the car automatically and quite violently, but it definitely saved an impact.
A good system allows you to become very lazy on motorways you can almost drive with your eyes closed. In very heavy motorway traffic where you get that stupid surge to 50mph and then everyone slams on to 5 mph again the Merc already starts to slow itself down before I can see the traffic slowing.
However - as mentioned above if everyone used these systems our motorways would be safer. Even with the ACC set at the minimum gap distance you always get idiots pulling out in the gap in front !
When I get back in analogue cars I do notice the increased workload (stress) of driving. (although as yet I do not trust the VW system)
Ours is audible only, with a single switch to disable. The Toyota hire car I drove in the US was full driverless with radar cruise control and warnings as to when you need to put your hands back on the wheel! Mrs TiRed hates them with a passion. Probably the tugging of the steering wheel. Odd that she loves the adaptive cruise control though. It's a slow march to full driverless.
I once asked my local bus company
...
There response was that if they did it the right way round then there buses would be constantly stuck at the stops and they have force the issue by moving.
I've posted this before, but I once had an E-class Merc as a company car (I wasn't particularly important, the policy was that you got allocated whatever was free in the pool and I got lucky with a former director's old motor).
I found that other drivers actively went out of their way to not give you a break. If they saw you coming they'd close up gaps rather than let you out. Indicators just tip the bastards off so they can be more awkward towards you.
So I found myself avoiding indicating, it was the only way I could ever get anywhere (or "make progress" as it were). All the common complaints about large German marques and indicators - it's your own fault, it's a problem of your own making.
Hyundai get a lot wrong with their UI
...
It loudly complains about a lot,
I've posted this before also, but I nicknamed my old Hyundai i40 "Crosby" because you couldn't drive 20 yards without it going BING! for some paltry reason like leaving a speck of dust on the passenger seat without the seatbelt fastened.
Ah, you need a nice new leccy Megane ETech. Nice big actual button to the right of the steering wheel turns lane assist off or on, remembers what you set it to etc. Admittedly doesn't go all the way off but it is very unobtrusive. Makes for a very relaxed drive on dual carriageways when you turn it on together with the adaptive cruise control.
Sounds like the mighty VW group have got it very wrong. I must admit I test drove a VW ID3 and a Cupra Born (I know, I know, same car) before ordering the Megane and it was the UI and lack of actual buttons that put me off them.
it was the UI and lack of actual buttons that put me off them
Luckily I can't afford a modern car... any vehicle with just menus instead of physical buttons and switches just winds me up.
Luckily I can’t afford a modern car… any vehicle with just menus instead of physical buttons and switches just winds me up.
My newer car has about four ways of doing the same bloody thing either by using the touch screen, the physical buttons, the steering wheel controls or the touchpad in the centre console. And I still can't find a way to intuitively skip songs, it still takes an age to find the hazard light button and I *always* get the front and rear demister buttons the wrong way around. I think I prefer our 12-year-old Quashqui with its simple controls.
I’ve posted this before also, but I nicknamed my old Hyundai i40 “Crosby” because you couldn’t drive 20 yards without it going BING! for some paltry reason
Do. Not. Get. Bing. Me. Bong. Started. Bingboong.
😀 We had a test car here a few months ago. The number of warnings was absolutely excruciating.
Told me off for not looking forwards (glanced at the sat nav)
Moving around in the seat (was just moving a bit)
Playing the music too loud (you'll get distracted)
Lane change in some roadworks.
Driving too slowly, driving too fast (still below the limit)
All delivered in horrifically bad english (all the menus were in chinese, with no english option)
Funnily enough (for some reason this has just come back to me), I was out walking my dog a couple of days ago and I got to thinking that we are in a bit of a halfway house at the moment – no truly self-driving cars, but they are doing lots for us. In ten years' time, all cars will be fully self-driving, we'll just get in and be whisked off to wherever we want to go and the whole experience will be a whole less stressful. Until the cars become sentient and start having road-rage.
In ten years’ time, all cars will be fully self-driving, we’ll just get in and be whisked off to wherever we want to go and the whole experience will be a whole less stressful.
Self-driving cars have been "10 years off" for the past 50 years.
They'll still be "10 years off" in another 20 years.
Yes, there'll be a few outliers - little "transport buggy" type things in conference halls and maybe a few big public transport hubs, things like food delivery drones and (possibly) a few "autonomous car" lanes on motorways and maybe things like guided busways as well but otherwise, no chance.
They’ll still be “10 years off” in another 20 years.
They won't based on my Toyota rental experience. The regulation might be, but not the cars.
The 'ten years' time' prediction was a bit flippant, but in all seriousness, looking at the difference between my 12-year-old car and a new car, I don't think we'll be that far off – the acceleration of technology advances is staggering. My 12-year-old Quashqui was top of the range when new and the limit of its tech was Bluetooth, a decent sound system and 360 reversing cameras (but the definition is appalling and I daren't rely on it). My in-laws' brand-new Sportage (which is a very comparable car being a similar level and is top spec again) has Lane Keep Assistance, Lane Following Assistance (this is slightly different to Lane Keep – it guides the car in the right direction when using the sat-nav), Intelligent Speed Limit Assistance, Blind Spot Collision Avoidance, Parking Collision Avoidance, Remote Parking Assistance – it can't be long before all that is coupled together into a proper self-driving experience.
My newer car has about four ways of doing the same bloody thing either by using the touch screen, the physical buttons, the steering wheel controls or the touchpad in the centre console. And I still can’t find a way to intuitively skip songs,
Voice control?
looking at the difference between my 12-year-old car and a new car, I don’t think we’ll be that far off
Technology moves apace, but we're a long way off true automation yet. I can't offhand think of a modern car UI that hasn't been ****y in some form of ephemerally annoying way. My previous Civic's adaptive cruise control would shit itself and slam the brakes on if I dared to "undertake" a car ahead which was waiting to turn right.
On the current Seat there's a whole host of issues some of which are actual faults but one of the clearly irritating-by-design is the rear view camera which pops up a sort of radar overlay of the car on the left of the screen; clearly intended for a left-hand drive car, in a RHD car it covers up where the kerb is rendering the entire thing near useless. There's a touchscreen handle the size of a midge's cock that you can use to minimise it out of the way but if you take it out of reverse and re-engage because you're doing something wacky like "parking" then it pops straight back out again.
Voice control?
I haven't actually tried that, but yes the vehicle has it.
And I agree regarding some of the foibles these new systems have (such as my newer car having speed limit assistance that I daren't use as it regularly gets the speed limit wrong, including one instance near where I live where it thinks the speed limit on the main road is 5mph because it thinks the car is in the nearby school car park), but much of the technology is now there and there will be a point when it becomes reliable enough to deploy.
Of course, when you turn it off and get distracted you end up doing this...
My 12-year-old Quashqui was top of the range when new and the limit of its tech was Bluetooth, a decent sound system and 360 reversing cameras (but the definition is appalling and I daren’t rely on it). My in-laws’ brand-new Sportage (which is a very comparable car being a similar level and is top spec again) has Lane Keep Assistance, Lane Following Assistance (this is slightly different to Lane Keep – it guides the car in the right direction when using the sat-nav), Intelligent Speed Limit Assistance, Blind Spot Collision Avoidance, Parking Collision Avoidance, Remote Parking Assistance – it can’t be long before all that is coupled together into a proper self-driving experience.
I don't know how much of this is about 'new' and how much is about 'affordable' though. My friend has a 2007 car with lane-assist, and this Wiki page suggests it was first introduced to cars in the mid-00's. Albeit only to the most very expensive cars. I'm sure it's improved in that time. But it did exist!
Buy a van. When I bought mine new in 2018 you got the basic safety systems, ABS, ESP, etc, but had to choose a model with passenger airbag, A/C, etc.
The only "bing" is that you've left the lights on and no "bongs"
I picked up a VW Golf yesterday for driving at the National RR Champs and was trialling some of the safety tech during the drive to the venue.
The adaptive cruise control is good, the Lane Assist stuff is really annoying. It's like it's constantly scoring you on your driving and occasionally it'll flash up a stern warning to stay in the middle of the lane. It's got quite a noticeable tug on the wheel to keep you straight, it's disconcerting the first time you feel it.
Every time you start the thing - into the menu, disable it all. 🙄
MG4 here. Biggest issue on all reviews. As above - rural roads with often no white line on the left and a ropey one in the middle. Also it always turns on in the highest setting. I've seen some owners set their starting 'noise' to be 'turn the lane assist off'!
That's what I do, get in the car, one physical button to get to settings, toggle lane assist off completely, confirm and go. We've not tried it on the motorway yet. It's a shame as the ACC looks great, but LA is way too intrusive. Hopefully a software upgrade might improve it.
It’s like it’s constantly scoring you on your driving and occasionally it’ll flash up a stern warning to stay in the middle of the lane.
If it's constant, maybe the problem isn't with the car, maybe it's actually your lane discipline 🙂
"I demand the right to weave about and not watch where I am going without being corrected!"
😉
If it’s constant, maybe the problem isn’t with the car, maybe it’s actually your lane discipline 🙂
You know how you move slightly right within the lane to overtake a wide lorry or move slightly left to let a motorbike filter through in slow moving traffic?
Yeah, it was all that and it complained bitterly after a while.
Once traffic was free flowing, it did mostly shut up.
Got a modernish Skoda sitting outside (see the ‘signs of getting older’ thread). Has a feature which tries to stop you using the steering wheel when you cross the centre line of the road.
Unless you have the indicators on. I'm guessing you owned an Audi or BMW before?
It does rather sound as if VW’s implementation is poor.
I hired a T-Cross recently and on a motorway, it's not horrible, annoying if you don't signal, but at higher speeds it's just a resistance on the steering wheel. At low speeds it interferes enough to be distracting. Badly painted, or narrow roads where you almost invariably/accidently cross either the central line or a side line really pulls at the steering.
MG4 here.
I was offered an MG before I took the T-Cross above and honestly I don't understand how a car with that any features all competing for your attention alongside multiple graphic displays makes it into a hire fleet. I needed to drive out of Barcelona, and I rejected the car for the first time ever thinking that I just wouldn't have been able to to drive it safely without spending hours just learning the controls first. Combine that with left hand drive, hybrid, and bing-bonging...Nope.
@nickc - mmm the salesfella wanted to spend a hour with Carol explaining how it all worked. Once you get used to it, it's okay - main display tells you everything you need to know, big one on the left mostly fluff except the blooming air con etc which is a prod, poke and hope (no physical controls).
Volume and a few other things on the wheel as well. It's a bit of reclalibration tho every time I drive it coming from my Koraq. But the two things that get me every time are a) not start button, just stick selector to drive and go and b) regenerative braking - it's brilliant but then I get back in my own car and near t-bone the nearest wall 🙂
That lane assist tho can do one.
BMW i4 here. It turns on by default on every start. It's OK on dual carriageway and motorways - a sensible reminder to signal before changing lanes as otherwise is "tugs" the car back into the lane, and a useful safety net should I actually wander out of lane.
On A and B roads though it's rubbish - constantly interfering and trying to steer around bends itself which makes it feel like driving on patchy ice.
I've set up a "shortcut" to turn it off so that just 2 clicks of the iDrive controller turn it off - and have developed the habit of turning it off every time I jump in the car.
A bit annoying but just a single button press when you remember.
My wife said she read it was an EU reg. Didn't happen in the USA in the same model!
On A and B roads though it’s rubbish – constantly interfering and trying to steer around bends itself which makes it feel like driving on patchy ice.
Surely it's only doing that if you drift out of your lane though?
Surely it’s only doing that if you drift out of your lane though?
Who drifts when you are driving? That implies not being in control.
On country B roads where its easier to just cross the centre line rather than stay within lane and straighten out the bends (if safe to do so)
At worst you can straighten the line whilst staying in lane. You dont have to cross the lane for these things to start pulling you back, just get close to them
It also picks up all kinds of stuff on country lanes, such as seams in the tarmac, and frantically starts pushing you over. It's just not designed for minor roads.
Got very upset when I forgot to switch it off the other day in motorway roadworks with narrow lanes, kept picking up the original lane markings...
Got very upset when I forgot to switch it off the other day in motorway roadworks with narrow lanes, kept picking up the original lane markings…
Have to say its not as bad as that in either of our cars
It’s just not designed for minor roads.
Completely agree with that, and that's why I think we will never get to the stage of fully autonomous driving (thank fully).
It could be that some cars have capability to do it on certain roads ie a major road, but then you wouldnt want them mixing with 'manual' cars and vice versa
That might explain why 2 cars on the M62 roadworks suddenly lurched across, nearly putting those in the inside lane into the hard barrier.
Luckily all of them slammed on.
Luckily all of them slammed on.
Probably did that automatically too!
Not the cars veering over, the ones they were heading towards.
It looked odd as the offending vehicle drivers immediately pulled their cars back into lane.
I was a few cars back and it looked like when people jerk the wheel to spook another driver into moving over.
Who drifts when you are driving? That implies not being in control.
That was my point. If you stay in the lane then it doesn't kick in.
It turns on by default on every start.
That's bloody annoying in itself. How hard is it to remember settings? More computing power than the gods damned space shuttle and I've got to do the *ing Macarena every time I get into a car.
The Seat has this fancy profile system where each key has it's own user, it sounds great in theory but it's braindead. As far as I can tell its suite of functionality is to go "hello, [username]" when you get in; remember whether you wanted square or round dials on the dash; and occasionally **** up at random and load the wrong profile.
Back when I had ("bing!") the i40, the auto-hold brake thing defaulted to being switched off. On what planet is "yes, I'd like to roll backwards" a desirable setting, let alone the default behaviour?
I'm a proper technophile but my god, I miss real switches. Remember devices that had power switches which actually controlled the power delivery, so you could switch the *ing thing off when it went tits up? The old joke, "have you tried turning it off and back on again?" Yes, I have, it's too bollocksed to register the "off" button and you've Araldited the case together so I can't get at the sodding battery. So, now what?
We've gone from user-friendly to actively user-hostile and it boils my frozen sausages.
I can't even abide automatic lights in a car, god help me if/when I need a newer car, luckily I like motorbikes & yes despite having lights on all the time, they don't appear to be going down the safety control route that cars do, just abs, traction control & power limiting modes. All the above seems crazy when one safety feature above all would be to limit cars to a maximum as per the other thread & oh yes ditch the infotainment screens.
All of these extra 'stupid driver' aids just seem an additional expense to go wrong.
Dacia get low Euro NCAP results as they are selling cars without all these 'aids', its the same car underneath but without some of this expensive shoot.
My daughter is learning in a Puma, with hill start assist, clutch assist etc etc. She struggles with the clutch in our Aygo and learning to pull away, despite it being a piece of cake to drive and it copes with lazy gear changes well.
It also picks up all kinds of stuff on country lanes, such as seams in the tarmac, and frantically starts pushing you over. It’s just not designed for minor roads.
It is not just minor roads. We don't have lane assist, just front radar and bongs.
This week it kicked off as mrs_oab drove at 20mph into a coned road works.
Last week it kicked off on our local lane as the hedges need a trim - every 30seconds for about a mile.
In 18 months of owning the car it has bonged usefully properly once - and even then I think I was braking already.
Sh*te doesn't even come close.
extra ‘stupid driver’ aids
Mate, given how many drivers ARE stupid, surely we need all the aid they can get?
ditch the infotainment screens
What do you think happens on those screens? They don't show you movies (when you're driving).
We’ve gone from user-friendly to actively user-hostile
This is objectively not true, and you know it. I'm sure you remember trying to explain how to use Windows 3.0 or GEM or whatever to old people back in the day - I do. Now all I get is the occasional legit question from my Dad (being the same people from back in the day when they weren't even that old then) about something like cloud storage delivered via WhatsApp.