[Closed] Lance, latest have we done it yet.

A lifetime ban for having a contaminated protein shake would seem a little unfair?

LOL. Do they believe in santa claus too?

Cenbuterol has been used in some protein shakes etc, as a 'cutting' agent, it is supposed to promote lean muscle mass. However, I am pretty damn certain that Contraband certainly did not take clen knowingly, I mean, why the hell would he? It's not like he's got a weight problem, and it doesn't have any benefits to the cyclist, none that I'm aware of - if it does please enlighten me.

Saying that, I don't for one minute think that's he's clean, but clen, really, really?

"It is UCI’s view that USADA’s reference to national law is not appropriate."

Just about sums up the UCI.

Cadel seems to be either very naive, which i doubt, or very silly to think this is a storm in someone else's tea cup.

oh and won't be long before Hora makes a visit.....15posts.....

Reality Check: The search for a competitive advantage has been going on forever. This is why the sports governing body introduces rules in respect of the sport. To control the boundaries and to adjudicate on acceptability. Often done to keep costs down for the masses of weekend riders who like to emulate their heroes.

The UCI has systematically failed to take control and deal with the doping situation in cycling. Frankly anyone who thinks the sport is a) clean now, or b) that Armstrong/US Postal were the exceptions are naive in the extreme. Every professional was at it, and in all likelihood still are, but just in more sophisticated ways.

What is currently happening is scape-goating. The absolute reality is that if what is happening to LA is the right route, then you might as well write off all professional results for the last 30 years or so, perhaps longer.

What is necessary is strong and clear leadership indicating that cheating is intolerable and will be sought out wherever and whenever it occurs and more importantly that samples will be kept and new technology will be applied retrospectively. What actually stops this sort of thing is the likelihood of being caught. If the LA example is to do anything for the sport, the retrospective element has to be the one.

However, I am pretty damn certain that Contraband certainly did not take clen knowingly, I mean, why the hell would he? It's not like he's got a weight problem, and it doesn't have any benefits to the cyclist, none that I'm aware of - if it does please enlighten me.

Saying that, I don't for one minute think that's he's clean, but clen, really, really?

Common theory is that he took it during the off season (or pre-Tour anyway) during his build up. When blood was removed to eb stored, it still had traces of clenbuterol in it and it was re-infused on the rest day (the perfect time to do it). The next day he got tested and there were still sufficient traces of it there to show up.

There was information being circulated at the time (no, I can't find the source...) that non-verified tests had found traces of plasticizer (used in blood bags) in there as well but because the tests weren't legally valid, they couldn't be used to prove he'd had a blood transfusion.

I'm convinced Contador is guilty of doping but so far he's mostly been smart enough to avoid getting caught conclusively.

Oh and +1 for everything that Berm Bandit said ^^

atlaz - I read the 'at this stage' as lip service due to several references that LA could, if he choses, contest jurisdiction through arbitration or the courts.

Well he's already challenged it through the courts and lost so I suppose in theory he could keep appealing but I think he'd lose. And he refused arbitration so again, not sure he has much room to move there. I think Pat saying there are grounds for challenge doesn't reflect the reality of the situation.

Berm Bandit nails it. Bravo.

Cenbuterol has been used in some protein shakes etc, as a 'cutting' agent, it is supposed to promote lean muscle mass. However, I am pretty damn certain that Contraband certainly did not take clen knowingly, I mean, why the hell would he? It's not like he's got a weight problem, and it doesn't have any benefits to the cyclist, none that I'm aware of - if it does please enlighten me.

What is necessary is strong and clear leadership

We are screwed!!!

+1 for bermbandit too. It's the same sort of farce that led people to label Ben Johnson a bad apple and not representative of what was/is going on in athletics.

Annoyed at the likes of Indurain, Valverde and Sanches coming out in support of Armstrong. The old arguments about why are these people coming forward now (subpoena under oath, knowing that the truth will eventually come out, and not wanting to go to jail for perjury perhaps... rather than just thinking about a good book deal!) And the supposed lack of "hard evidence" of a failed drugs test (I'd have thought those particular riders would be more than aware of how easy it is to avoid failing a drugs test.)

Kimmage, Millar and Berm Bandit for UCI takeover !

I just can't see why Bertie would of taken it at all. He isn't one for noshing down on too much sausage like Ullrich did. I agree that the most likely explanation was a blood transfusion, but he'd of used his own blood, and it still begs the question 'why did he take the stuff in the first place'.

What is currently happening is scape-goating. The absolute reality is that if what is happening to LA is the right route, then you might as well write off all professional results for the last 30 years or so, perhaps longer.

[img] http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v709/sixfootsneak/failtacular.jp g" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v709/sixfootsneak/failtacular.jp g"/> [/img]

I just can't see why Bertie would of taken it at all.

Peer Pressure

noshing down on too much sausage like Ullrich

think he means literal, not purple trumpet

"Omerta" ...ha!...bunch of drama queens

You know it's been peloton slang for many years, right?

Peleton....Sportive....Soigneurs ...Omerta..... bunch of drama queens!

In the Panel’s opinion, on the basis of the evidence adduced the presence of clenbuterol was more likely caused by the ingestion of a contaminated food supplement.

incoming hora....?

Cav praises Rolf Aldag but forgets that Aldag doped throughout his career and only adimitted it when accused by Jef d'Hont. He stood by and said nothing as teammate Ulrich took on Werner Frank the German anti-dope expert and won in court (Frank later turned the tables when more evidence came to light). Aldag is very much part of the problem in the same way as Yates at Sky.

[url= http://www.velominati.com/the-lexicon/#COTHO ]Kimmage, Millar ..... for UCI takeover![/url]

🙄 😆

2001!

in another thread (and probably somewhere here too) someone posted a link to an article by [url=In the Panel’s opinion, on the basis of the evidence adduced the presence of clenbuterol was more likely caused by the ingestion of a contaminated food supplement.]nicholas roche[/url]

If you look at all the riders recently who have been caught and admitted doping, some people are saying it's great that these riders are helping the sport. But saying, 'I'm sorry, I was doping from this year to that year but I'm not going to do it again and I'm cleaner than clean... I'm helping anti-doping because I talk to kids about it,' or whatever, that's a load of bull. That's not helping anti-doping.

Helping anti-doping is saying. 'Okay I doped. I got it from this doctor. These are the riders that I met in the waiting room. This is how it's done. These are the new products that are in the peloton that are not yet detectable. These are the products that we use to mask the ones that are detectable. This product does this, this product does that. This is how we beat the test.' That's helping anti-doping.

Cenbuterol has been used in some protein shakes etc, as a 'cutting' agent, it is supposed to promote lean muscle mass. However, I am pretty damn certain that Contraband certainly did not take clen knowingly, I mean, why the hell would he? It's not like he's got a weight problem, and it doesn't have any benefits to the cyclist, none that I'm aware of - if it does please enlighten me.

If I remember correctly it is usually used by asthmatics as it helps breathing and as you said, promotes lean muscle mass. So basically he could have used it earlier in the season for training to build up his strength and "open" his lungs whilst training and climbing. Given the effects are over a longer period usually, it's odd he was caught with it on that day.

So there's two possibilities:

1, Contaminated cow or supplements
2, Blood doping with blood taken earlier in the season

The first seems to be a problem for me as it would mean that the team just let him do what he wants during a TdF where he's a GC contender.

The first seems to be a problem for me as it would mean that the team just let him do what he wants during a TdF where he's a GC contender.

And for that matter, why don't the doctors test the blood that they a re-infusing to make sure that its clean? Especially in the case of Landis. Something about these cases never really rung true for me. It s not like the riders were taking out their own blood, storing it, then putting back in, they had help, and you'd like to think that the team doctors knew what they were doing.

Another disturbing report about the 'hologram hero' and John Kerry/Obama

http://reader.roopstigo.com/view/roopster/story/595#/chapter/2/

alex - well that would presume that for Contador for example, the team were helping him dope. Not sure the rest of the team's performance really backed that up though. From the Hamilton book and interviews though, it sounds like the whole Fuentes transfusion service was a little unprofessional at times but at least Hamilton took responsibility for personally checking the blood was his own (even if he got a bad bag once).

alex - well that would presume that for Contador for example, the team were helping him dope. Not sure the rest of the team's performance really backed that up though. From the Hamilton book and interviews though, it sounds like the whole Fuentes transfusion service was a little unprofessional at times but at least Hamilton took responsibility for personally checking the blood was his own (even if he got a bad bag once).

That's true, I forgot about the gory findings in his fridge. The reason Hamilton was so adamant that he didn't dope (or at least the doping of someone else's blood) was that he always checked the name on the bags, and never had someone elses. It must be tough for these doctors, what are they going to write on their cv's when they are applying for jobs at the local hospitals, now that the are banned from working in sport, I hope that they put some cash away for a rainy day.

Supposedly the whole thing with Ferrari was worth 30M euros. Decent pocket money.

And how do you stop a DR working in sport?....very hard, you could ban Ferrari from UCI events, ban him from being employed by teams but unless you strip his license (which a sports governing body will find hard to do) then there is nothing to stop him having a practice in Italy and seeing private patients.....who just happen to be cyclists.

Scardeypants....spot on, until a repentant doper is prepared to come forward and say: this is what we use now....you (UCI/WADA) cant test for it successfully because we do this to cover it up....him, him and him should be tested because they're well known for it....etc etc....then all the guys like Millar are doing is simply 'fessing up and then smiling for the camera and saying "drugs are bad kids, dont dope"....its good PR for them but they are still keeping quiet about their doped up colleagues in the peleton!

There was information being circulated at the time (no, I can't find the source...) that non-verified tests had found traces of plasticizer (used in blood bags) in there as well but because the tests weren't legally valid, they couldn't be used to prove he'd had a blood transfusion.

That is what I heard and the ashenden thought his biological passport showed clear si=gns of doping
I fear we have this generations equivalent of the LA failed test in 99 for cortisone and they still turned a blind ish eye to it all. Some of the statements from Spain were just ridiculous about how he was innocent and just downright denial like we got/get still with LA
The spanish cycling reaction was terrible whereby they just ignored the rules and did not ban him and he compete deven though we all knew what would happen to his results.
Terrible for cycling that this can still happen in the present

then all the guys like Millar are doing is simply 'fessing up and then smiling for the camera and saying "drugs are bad kids, dont dope"....its good PR for them but they are still keeping quiet about their doped up colleagues in the peleton!

To be fair to Millar, when he returned from his ban to find that his new team were all doping, he wrote to the head of the UCI (was Macquaid in the job at that time?) personally. He says he never received a reply.

one of the points that is missing from the contador case is the appearance of plasticizers in his blood, which was ignored by CAS - the only way they could have got into his blood stream was by using an older style of blood bag, no ifs or buts.

And again this year at the vuelta he looked like a normal rider until the rest day before the mountains and then suddenly turned into an 'amazing' rider with continued accelerations, the like of which we havent seen since.... oh... erm

The UCI are embarassed by this whole matter - they had the same info from landis and hamilton, only they chose not to actually do anything about it, except take the same stance as Lance and try and spin them off as unstable liers, unfortunately 2 agencies in the US did their job for them and now theyre backpedalling like mad, but to say one thing in a press conference and then to say something else in a written release makes McQuaid look like a lying hypocrite, there are some countries governing cycling bodies already looking to place a vote of no conifidence in the UCI as a result.

makes McQuaid look like a lying hypocrite,

er.... 😉

After originally hammering them in the press when they first made their statements, Pat even called Hamilton and Landis scumbags in the press conference this week. Hard to imagine that it creates an environment where whistleblowers come forward, particularly as a lot of those whistleblowers may well be doping themselves.

"I hope that people remember that the events being uncovered mostly occurred seven or more years ago, amongst a minority of those involved in a sport which has already changed and moved on"

Oh, what a shame, I had high hopes for Cadel. I'll add him to the list.

I think the constant line from the peloton that the sport has changed is one of the most depressing (and predictable) things about all this. It's the same thing we heard in 1999, among other occasions.

Remind me who won the Vuelta? And who's hot favourite for the TdF next year? Oh, and who won the Olympic road race?

Quite.

Hi Lance,
First of all, I want you to know I love you. You are my favorite cyclist of all time. I say this because you have been an American hero not just for all the American cyclists, but for me. I know you have to be struggling through the obsession of the media right now - in this case, like attracts like. They are feeding on it. What I see is that you have touched everyone and in a good way. I am sorry for what has happened the way it has happened. It is what it is and no matter how angry folks are right now, they all need to see you rise above this, which you can do. My hope is that you will help repair. I just want you to know in my heart I appreciate what you have done for cycling and for every single person affected by cancer. Thank you Lance. And may peace be in your heart.
Tinker

that's a prize enabler right there.

[img] [/img]

Added to the list. Gosh, they make it easy, don't they? Forget retrospective testing, just wait for them to open their mouths

I appreciate what you have done for cycling

Jesus, who'd have thought Tinker Juarez hated cycling so much

What I see is that you have touched everyone

Not another Jimmy Saville is he? *sorry*

I appreciate what you have done for cycling and for every single person affected by cancer.

Every single person affected by cancer? 😕

I started listening to the 5live podcast [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/5lspecials ]Peddlers - Cycling's Dirty Truth[/url] well worth a listen.

(you need to scroll down a bit for the download link)

However, I am pretty damn certain that Contraband certainly did not take clen knowingly, I mean, why the hell would he? It's not like he's got a weight problem, and it doesn't have any benefits to the cyclist, none that I'm aware of - if it does please enlighten me.

Hasn't got a weight problem you say? Please remind me of the important measure of how fast you can ride up a hill - it's power to XXX ratio, now what is that XXX? Meanwhile, excuse me for not being a pharmacologist (no idea if you are - please tell me I'm talking a load of tosh if so) and just getting this info off the web, but you yourself mention it promoting lean muscle mass, apparently it also "causes an increase in aerobic capacity, central nervous system stimulation, and an increase in blood pressure and oxygen transportation", all of which you might think were handy for cyclists.

There is also a suggestion that it's more potent than salbutomol, now I accept that has no proven performance benefits for non-asthmatics, but that doesn't seem to have stopped an awful lot of cyclists being registered as asthmatic in order to be allowed to take it for therapeutic purposes...

At the time of Berties positive test, someone posted a link to tests of European beef for traces of clean (apparently in days gone by it was widespread) I can't remember exact figures, but we're talking hundreds of thousands of samples taken with zero showing any traces of clenbuterol. That coupled with Berties name (or at least CONT) being written on blood bags in Puerto tells me all that I need to know. Surprised at the cuddles statement, but its hardly surprising to see Bertie trying to play down the LA evidence-i bet his lapping his chamois at the thoughtt that witness testimony can now see you banned!