Some of the regular posters making utter fools of themselves on this thread is eyeopening. Reminds me of the residents of Springfield with pitchforks and torches.Wrecker I agree with every word you have written.
Would you describe yourself as a regular poster?
(well I suppose Andy Schleck also stood on a TdF podium with him, and I don't think he's been tainted yet).
The Schlecks have been caught making payments to one of the dodgy doctors, Fuentes I think but could have been Ferarri or something to do with Operation Puerto. Anyway they claimed they just paid for "training advice", who knows whether they were dropping off some blood while they received their advice.
Some of the regular posters making utter fools of themselves on this thread is eyeopening. Reminds me of the residents of Springfield with pitchforks and torches.Wrecker I agree with every word you have written
No need for abuse from us when you play the fool so well unaided
It looks like wrecker does not even agree with every word he has written. He accepts he writes from a position of ignorance as he neither follows road cycling nor has he read the actual report he is discussing. I cant see why you would praise this and criticise those providing the actual facts
Yes I would whats your point?
Jeez Junky you are obsessed, I thought TJ was the king of tenacity but it looks like you have taken his mantle. 😆
The only one which could be interpreted as remotely, possibly, slightly considerable is the masseuse IMHO. Even that's a bit coded.
That was just the first thing I found when I checked links from the current BBC story - you could always try doing a bit of your own research to find out more about her testimony, but I'm feeling generous today, so [url= http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Emma+O%27Reilly ]here's more about Emma O'Reilly[/url]
Have you considered deductive logic?
I was alaways TJ light but I have more shades of grey than just black and white
On a more positive note, Jimmy Engoulevent is now 137th in the 2004 Tour de France.
Deductive logic? You will have to explain that to me.
On this thread you are coming over as TJ heavy, that is in no way intended as an insult just my opinion which you have already called foolish.
Well, as someone here already pointed out (I think) it's interesting to see that times for Alpe d'Huez the are getting longer. That pretty much shows the effect that doping can have
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpe_ d'Huez#Fastest_Alpe_d.27Huez_ascents
Interestingly, the times are about 4% longer in the last couple of years, which is about the % increase in performance that they reckon doping gives.
Of course this is all internet based amateur research!
If you want to see the nuts & bolts of the case it's all laid out here:
[url= http://cyclinginvestigation.usada.org/ ]USADA [/url]
Can't see that this has been mentioned but the BBC live text says that SCA have said that they're pursuing him for the bonuses relating to 2004.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/20025271 (15.22 update)
On this thread you are coming over as TJ heavy
Is that a euphemism for "correct and not afraid of saying so in the face of lots of fools arguing with him"?
No its not aracer
Is that a euphemism for "correct and not afraid of saying so in the face of lots of fools arguing with him"?
That's a good one....
[quote=jfletch]The Schlecks have been caught making payments to one of the dodgy doctors, Fuentes I think but could have been Ferarri or something to do with Operation Puerto. Anyway they claimed they just paid for "training advice", who knows whether they were dropping off some blood while they received their advice.
There are two of them you know. What you mean is what follows:
[s]The[/s] Frank Schleck has[s]ve[/s] been caught making payments to one of the dodgy doctors, Fuentes I think but could have been Ferarri or something to do with Operation Puerto. Anyway [s]they[/s] he claimed [s]they[/s] he just paid for "training advice", who knows whether [s]they were[/s] he was dropping off some blood while [s]they[/s] he received [s]their[/s] his advice.
Much better. Also much more correct. I don't think anyone has ever come up with anything on Andy Schleck despite the fact his older brother seemed to have got away with the whole Fuentes thing. There's enough dopers around to drag extra people into it.
Can't see that this has been mentioned but the BBC live text says that SCA have said that they're pursuing him for the bonuses relating to 2004.
More here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/20029617
No surprises there - this was the company who Lance took legal action against because they refused to pay his bonus. $2.5 million of the $7.5 million they're after is in legal fees etc. (a significant proportion is presumably Lance's own legal fees they paid previously)!
My mum has won as many Tours as Lance. Who'd a thought it?
My mum has won as many Tours as Lance. Who'd a thought it?
Blimey! your mum too??!!!!!
Small world
I don't think anyone has ever come up with anything on Andy Schleck despite the fact his older brother seemed to have got away with the whole Fuentes thing.
Oh good - I hadn't bothered to check, but did think he was the only other "clean" rider to have stood on a TdF podium with Lance (the other is mentioned above and is of course Fernando Escartin).
I would say that this is no longer about LA - this could be the biggest eye-opener in sport ever... So many people hate LA that their focus is just on him, but get your heads out of the sand.. Does anyone REALLY believe that Merckx, Indurain, etc. were 'clean' - you've got to be kidding me if you do... and you think cycling is in a bad way? This is well ingrained in sport as a whole... everyone wants the edge, the science of sport will always look for those 'edges' - even Joe Bloggs down the street is willing to take any kind of supplement so he just looks better than his mate at the gym - it will never end - there will always be a new 'drug' and substances that are legal now could well become illegal, but what's the point. Stop focusing on LA and take a long hard look at sport as a whole, things will come out that will make this look like a third rate news story when they start taking the lid off football etc. Cycling teams will come out with all sorts of claims about being anti drug, but at the end of the day a domestique, scared of losing his place in the team is always going to chance that 'edge'. As far as LA is concerned, he has a winning mentality and still maintains fitness... I can respect that, much more than some winners who then go on the piss for 6 months!
...also from that BBC sports news feed, David Millar is to speak to 5live at 17:15 - should be interesting.
I would enjoy seeing Carlos Sastre get more recognition if he was clean; I liked his attitude and approach.
Wow this is ridiculous, even when Pat 'USADA has no juristiction' McQuaid and Phil 'USADA bribed witnesses' Liggett have both agreed with the decision there are still people arguing? Fantastic.
Does anyone REALLY believe that Merckx, Indurain, etc. were 'clean' - you've got to be kidding me if you do
Well, no. They were both known dopers.
Anyhoo, I've read some of the links put up (thank you aracer) and it's confirmed that LA is a cheat (I knew this), a bit of a bastard (I knew this too).
It's not in any way confirmed that he was Mr Big in the doping world.
David Millar is to speak to 5live at 17:15
Oh good. Another drugs cheat.
spxxky - Member
Does anyone REALLY believe that Merckx, Indurain, etc. were 'clean'
If you're going to choose someone as a 'do you really believe xxxx was clean' then try and pick someone who didn't test positive!
I would enjoy seeing Carlos Sastre get more recognition if he was clean; I liked his attitude and approach.
3 time TdF winner apparently
http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/08/25/if-not-armstrong-who-won-the-tour-de-france-or-tour-dutopia-from-1999-to-2005/
Oh christ are we going to go over the MILLAR GOOD - MILLAR BAD stuff again?
A[s]nother[/s] reformed drugs cheat.
🙄
Oh christ are we going to go over the MILLAR GOOD - MILLAR BAD stuff again?
Looks like it 😉
Haha... good one Lifer! The number of clean riders winning anything I believe you could count on the fingers of one hand
reformed? is that like cheap burgers?
Drug cheat is drug cheat surely 🙂
The number of clean riders winning anything I believe you could count on the fingers of one hand
Yeah, because the dopers were winning most of the races. Did you think that post through? 🙂
Has this been confirmed as yet or just Lance's wins voided?
at the risk of interrupting an interminable p1ssing contest and answering a post, Christian Prudhomme (Pres of ASO, organisers of TdeF) said last week that the tour wins would not be handed to another rider due to the taint on the era, and it is effectively a lost decade of the tour. Not sure Pat McQ can spare any time from back-covering and not explaining what Verbruggen did with Nike's $500K and LA's $100K donation to disagree with Prudhomme's decision.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/oct/12/tour-de-france-lance-armstrong-prudhomme
Greg Lemond
http://media.newstalk.ie/podcast/67851/popup
On Lance Armstrong:
“At one point, I didn’t have a choice. I knew too much, let’s just say, from 2000 on. At first, after the Festina affair, the story that Armstrong had lost weight and come back, I bought into the story. But then I started hearing rumors. And the rumors were observations from people within the sport. In 2000 I heard some very disturbing stuff from somebody within the team. And I kind of backed away from cycling at that point. I knew I was in a zero, no-win situation.”
“In the months or years to come there will be a lot of stuff, probably, revealed. It’s not going to be just a black period for doping. … He’s destroyed people. If you go against him he tries to destroy you. He’s been trying that for 10 years with me.”
On reduced sanctions for riders who give up their suppliers:
“I’d much rather have a Floyd (Landis) come out and admit it, but give up his source, because somebody’s giving those drugs to somebody. And it’s usually a doctor, a team manager, somebody. And if they do that and it leads to an outing of those guys, I’m all for them racing within six months. Second time, you’re out. All these doctors — they’re the same ones that were doping riders in the Eighties and Nineties. They’re still there. So it’s those guys, and the people who aren’t willing to change that, who need to go.”
Atlaz, No, the best dopers were winning the races - everyone was doping!
I presume some of you lads will be chipping in a few quid?
Christian Prudhomme (Pres of ASO, organisers of TdeF) said last week that the tour wins would not be handed to another rider due to the taint on the era, and it is effectively a lost decade of the tour.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/prudhomme-this-era-must-be-remembered-as-an-era-without-winners
Although the UCI say it's up to them not ASO, and they'll decide on Friday (another example of the UCI never failing to miss an opportunity to do things in the wrong order)
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-confirms-lance-armstrongs-life-ban
I think the UCI can say what they want but if the ASO refuse to hand the jersey to whoever it is the UCI decides won, what can they do. I can't see how McQuaid could force Prudhomme to give Ulrich a yellow jersey, it's not like they can stop the race taking place.
All the UCI is doing is setting up another stupid argument they can't win (like the spat with USADA) and they'll eventually back down from.
Wait a minute! Maybe Pat is trying to bring the UCI down from the inside, it's the only rational way to look at it, after all could one person be this incompetent?
[quote http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/20029617
I presume some of you lads will be chipping in a few quid?
What has amazed me is that the level of drug taking in not just cycling but ALL sports has taken so long to be properly brought into the open.I would say that this is no longer about LA - this could be the biggest eye-opener in sport ever
I was involved in a legal performance supplement developed by a former olympic champion (who shall remain nameless but has admitted use of drugs throughout his career) and it was a non-starter due to not being anywhere near 'strong' enough to interest anyone at a reasonable level, never mind 'professional' and this was 15 years ago!
[s]Another[/s] reformed drugs cheat.Oh christ are we going to go over the MILLAR GOOD - MILLAR BAD stuff again?
Looks like it
Clearly you are in the good camp then lifer and aracer?
I think the UCI can say what they want but if the ASO refuse to hand the jersey to whoever it is the UCI decides won, what can they do.
I think all they're proposing is changing what it says in the record books (and what it says on Wikipedia 8) ). I don't suppose there would be a new victory ceremony either way - did AS even get given a MJ for 2010?
Wait a minute! Maybe Pat is trying to bring the UCI down from the inside, it's the only rational way to look at it, after all could one person be this incompetent?
Actually you may have a point.
spxxky - Member
Does anyone REALLY believe that Merckx, Indurain, etc. were 'clean'
If you're going to choose someone as a 'do you really believe xxxx was clean' then try and pick someone who didn't test positive!
Merckx did.. He tested positive 3 times and was kicked off the giro in 1969
Clearly you are in the good camp then lifer and aracer?
I'm in the camp that thinks he's worth listening to. His past actually gives a more complete perspective than if he was totally clean.
I'm in the camp that thinks he's worth listening to. His past actually gives a more complete perspective than if he was totally clean.
Fair point
