MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
Just catching John McDonnell’s speech on 5Live.
It’s about 70% clapping at the moment.
Listening to it too.
Can I just confirm....
Labour lost the last election, didn't they?
Absolute boy.
Thornberry queen of sass, mocking Johnson 😉
Labour lost the last election, didn't they?
They did. But they’re really gathering momentum.
I see what you did there. Nice one Jamie.
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C’mon! The joke wasn’t that laboured.
Listening to it too.Can I just confirm....
Labour lost the last election, didn't they?
Yeah, but everyone lost the last election, and they lost it less then expected, but still more than the Tories lost it.
TBH the current version of the Labour Party is dead to me, I switched back to them at the 11th hour as I was promised by our Local MP they'd fight Brexit, or a least 'Hard Brexit' which has proven to be total BS.
Corbyn and his squad have gone back to type, Purge anyone who doesn't sing from the handbook, ban journalists who don't write what he thinks - seems there's no room for debate in a far-left socialist utopia.
Corbyn and his squad have gone back to type, Purge anyone who doesn't sing from the handbook, ban journalists who don't write what he thinks - seems there's no room for debate in a far-left socialist utopia.
That may be true but it's been 100pc successful. The Labour Party is now theirs and if Corbyn went under a bus tomorrow he would be replaced with a like minded candidate. There won't be a moderate Labour leader for decades. Perhaps ever.
Labour lost the last election, didn't they?
Yes. ...but the left have got Labour for good.
It's going to be interesting to see if this uneasy truce between Jezza and his MPs can hold for the week, particularly over their somewhat contradictory attitude to Brexit. I suppose with a hall full of Momentum disciples I'd probably be inclined to keep my head down.
I know that a lot of people like Andy Burnham and Sadiq Kahn, who may not be singing from the same hymn sheet, have been asked not to bother turning up this year. They certainly won't be addressing the faithful. I'm sure Tom Watson is probably locked in a cellar somewhere
Listening to John McDonnell’s speech the country is about to be delivered the socialist utopia for which it has yearned for decades. I worry that the echo chamber has taken the less-shit-than-expected election result as a ringing endorsement of Corbyns core policies, and are far too conveniently discounting what a truly dire and hopeless campaign the Tory's ran.
Either way, I doubt the majority of voters are going to be hearing much to enthuse about either this week or next, as both parties gallop off towards their respective outer fringes, leaving a yawning great chasm in the middle, marked 'none of the above'
Cant argue that this is the leftist labour conference I can remember
at the same time, policies like ditching PFI & renationalising rail are hugely popular with voters accross the political spectrum.
silly that they are not debating brexit, [b]but [/b]its all the Tories can talk about and look what its doing to them.
It seems to me that corbyn and co are better at playing politics in these interesting times than many give them credit for
Either way, I doubt the majority of voters are going to be hearing much to enthuse about either this week or next, as both parties gallop off towards their respective outer fringes, leaving a yawning great chasm in the middle, marked 'none of the above'
Yup. Sadly that's how I see things too.
Groundhog half century ?
It seems to me that corbyn and co are better at playing politics in these interesting times than many give them credit for
You must be consuming different media to me, seems to me that most commentators think Corbyn has played it perfectly politically. This was never about winning elections, it's was about taking over the party. That's happened. The left are now secure, if Corbyn goes under a bus he'll be replaced by another hard left candidate.
You'd be hard pushed to find a commentator who doesn't agree with that analysis.
It seems to me that Corbyn and co are better at playing politics in these interesting times than many give them credit for
I wouldn't dispute that. But just look at the absolute shambles they're facing? The Tory conference next week is going to be an absolute car crash of vicious factional in-fighting. They're in the full throws of it already, and there's a week to go!
All labour has to do is vaguely keep it together to look more like a statesmanlike and competent government-in-waiting, in comparison. But just because the truce is holding, for now, I doubt that behind the scenes they're much more united than those opposite.
There is only one game in town right now... Brexit. The vast majority of Labour MPs are pro-EU, The vast majority of labour members are pro-EU and The vast majority of Labour voters are pro-EU, but the leadership is instinctively anti-EU and has been for decades.
That can't hold, long-term. The question is if Jezza can cope with shifting his position. I think the election, and policy on Brexit since has showed that he's a bit more pragmatic than we'd been led to believe
Heres hoping! Though from what he's said over the weekend, I'm not optimistic
What a ••••ing mess!
Are their 2 sh*tter leaders than Corbyn and May. The next fortnight is going to be a car crash for politics in general. No one is a winner from those two idiots leading our main parties.
No one is a winner from those two idiots leading our main parties.
Vince might be...
That's happened. The left are now secure, if Corbyn goes under a bus he'll be replaced by another hard left candidate.You'd be hard pushed to find a commentator who doesn't agree with that analysis.
the same comentators that decided he would be obliterated by a tory landslide?
Corbyns popularity & the lefts hold on labour are precarious, his surprise showing at the GE had many factors-
partly an anti-establishment kickback that also delivered brexit
+ a youth vote pissed off at austerity [b]&[/b] brexit
that core of hard lefties in momentum loose power when he does- because its the same things keeping them both in place
kimbers - Membersilly that they are not debating brexit, but its all the Tories can talk about and look what its doing to them.
That's because the Tories are (just about!) in government and Brexit is the most important issue in government for decades. It's easy in opposition as there's no need for firm policies other than those which will win over undecideds at the next election - hence renationalising the railways.
Labour is in a mess over Brexit - McDonnell fudged it this morning as 'building a consensus within the party' - and they're taking the opportunity to avoid the difficult questions this week.
Corbyns popularity & the lefts hold on labour are precarious
indeed. Which is why their priority is to change the electoral rules so that they need to get fewer nominations to be put forward before you can be on a leadership ballot.
Labour MPs may be keeping quiet for the time being, but their position hasn't shifted that much. Corbyn knows that the bottom line is that when he retires, the present electoral system won't be allowing him to appoint a successor in his mould because Labour MPs won't wear it, no matter how many Momentum members shout at them
he same comentators that decided he would be obliterated by a tory landslide?
Yes, but in their defence, those commentators spotted May was s**t long before most of 'us'.
Corbyns popularity & the lefts hold on labour are precarious, his surprise showing at the GE had many factors-
partly an anti-establishment kickback that also delivered brexit
+ a youth vote pissed off at austerity & brexit that core of hard lefties in momentum loose power when he does- because its the same things keeping them both in place
I hope so but I doubt it. The Labour's been under threat from the left for decades. Now they're in control. I really can't see how/why they'd give up. Saying their (already poor) appeal to voters will be short lived doesn't help - they don't care about votes.
indeed. Which is why their priority is to change the electoral rules so that they need to get fewer nominations to be put forward before you can be on a leadership ballot.Labour MPs may be keeping quiet for the time being, but their position hasn't shifted that much. Corbyn knows that the bottom line is that when he retires, the present electoral system won't be allowing him to appoint a successor in his mould because Labour MPs won't wear it, no matter how many Momentum members shout at them
He's already lowered the nomination requirement:
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2017/09/jeremy-corbyn-secures-big-victory-labours-national-executive-committee
The left have the party, for good.
There won't be a moderate Labour leader for decades. Perhaps ever.
A glance at policies across many European governments would tell you that Corbyn is a moderate.
Labour MPs may be keeping quiet for the time being, but their position hasn't shifted that much.
You mean that they're petulant children who can't bring themselves to support the outcome of two leadership elections?
Yes, but in their defence, those commentators spotted May was s**t long before most of 'us'.
woooooaaaahhhh there
some of us have being saying she was useless for quite some time, during the leadership election her failings were pointed out by quite a few comentators, including the torygraph + spectator (tho that was more to back Borris), her record at the home office was an obvious red flag she just seemed like the sensible option compared to the rest & many a righty got all nostalgic over the thatcher thing
You mean that they're petulant children who can't bring themselves to support the outcome of two leadership [s]elections?[/s] invasions?
FTFY 😉
A glance at policies across many European governments would tell you that Corbyn is a moderate.
Really? How many European Governments are supporting leaving the EU/EEA? How many European Governments have been campaigning to leave the EEA for three or four decades?
But we had a referendum that was then voted through parliament. We've already triggered article 50. It's fine that [i]we're[/i] protesting against leaving, but you can't really expect Corbyn to. All they can do is put forward their 'deal' and oppose particular aspects.Really? How many European Governments are supporting leaving the EU/EEA?
All I heard on the radio was some berk quoting the Parrot Sketch from Monty Python.. dear god, that’s about the dumbest thing he’s ever done Shirley ?
Once the filly busters have had thier way I’m interested to hear what the policies and groundswell of the conference actually is.
At least PFI is being talked about.
Credit card interest cap is interesting.
[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/labour-only-doing-better-because-may-is-utterly-shit-20170926136453 ]The Mash raises a valid point[/url]
Professor Henry Brubaker of the Institute for Studies said: “There may be some public interest in Labour’s policies but it’s more likely voters thought, ‘I’d rather vote for a dead squirrel than May.’
Ohh, very well played there Prof..
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He has a point though..
Really? How many European Governments are supporting leaving the EU/EEA? How many European Governments have been campaigning to leave the EEA for three or four decades?
The Labour party campaigned to remain in the EU, and lost. Are you suggesting that they should ignore the referendum?
Any chance of actually talking about the content of the conference?
McDonnell:
.. how exactly are we going to manage these industries when we take them back into public ownership? And let's start doing the detailed work now.Let's start doing the consultations with consumers or passengers or whoever and also with local authorities and local councils or whoever.
Impressive if it happens. Doing actual work to try and do a good job of something and produce what people want. Refreshing change...
? is Guido Fawkes blog stuff vaguely reliable or is biased tosh ??
Reliable, they have a pop at both Labour and Tories equally.
I see Labour has managed to shoot itself in the foot again over anti-Semitism. Jackie Walker is back at the Fringe although banned from the main Conference. The “free speech” event over Zionism banned recording and tweeting as people’s words would be “mis-interpreted” - oh the irony.
Silence from the Labour leadership following their latest conference anti-Semitism crisis. The chief of the Equality and Human Rights Commission Rebecca Hilsenrath says they are in danger of being seen as a racist party:
“Anti-Semitism is racism and the Labour Party needs to do more to establish that it is not a racist party. A zero tolerance approach to anti-Semitism should mean just that. When senior party ?gures are saying there is a problem then the leadership should take swift action. It is not acceptable to simply say they oppose these views. These comments by party members show more needs to be done to root out anti-Semitic views that clearly exist in the party. Any suggestion of kicking people out of any political party on the grounds of race or religion should be condemned.”
One of the most biased sites around. It's like the right's version of The Canary.towzer - Member? is Guido Fawkes blog stuff vaguely reliable or is biased tosh ??
It's not surprising that Jamba thinks it's neutral. He probably thinks he is too.
Just look at the main page and read the headlines.
guido any good?
considering its just guido & the daily mail trying again to smear corbyn with the anti-semitism thing again
and again (normal) people will look at the comments at a labour fringe meeting and say 'what a dick', even if he is a jewish israeli and not actually a party member,
also Staines' efforts to out William Hague looked a lot more like homophobia than journalism
You can tell the Tory press are rattled. In a truly 'couldn't make it up' moment the Daly Mail has today decided to dedicate its front page to the Labour Party's alleged anti-semiticism.
Jammers is going to have to bring me up to speed about when exactly the Daily Heil started its crusade to fearlessly defend the rights of ethnic minorities. I may have missed it
But if its the Labour party conference and that's the best they can come up with......?
Of Paul Staines (the man behind Guido Fawkes)
he described his politics as "Thatcher on drugs". He relates that at college he was a "right-wing pain in the butt who was more interested in student politics than essays", who went on "to work in the various right-wing pressure groups and think tanks that proliferated in the late eighties".
his various companies have helped Boris Johnson on his social media output, are registered in off-shore tax havens.The only thing reliable about him is that he's honest about the fact that he's a right-wing shit stirrer.
Indeed. And just to reiterate - jambalaya just said he thought they were "Reliable, they have a pop at both Labour and Tories equally."
I think whats really worrying the RW press is that Labour are coming across as the grown ups, Tories now copying their transition idea & with policies like killing the colossal waste of PFI.
because they know whats coming....
Zombie May is going to come out on stage to the Tory party conference to forced applause and gritted teeth,
with Borris & the other vultures circling like skeksis
the colossal waste of PFI.
Most of which was incurred by.....oh. Hold on. Erm.
Awks. As the kids say.
Awks. As the kids say.
As Corbyn and John McDonnell have always been so effusive in their praise of Gordon and Tony's 'economic miracle'?
Given the choice, I reckon they'd have the pair of them in the dock Flashy. For Crimes against the People, in front of their newly founded Peoples revolutionary Court 😉
Most of which was incurred by.....oh. Hold on. Erm.Awks. As the kids say.
It was a Tory idea, enthusiastically embraced by New Labour. I'm not sure why that's awkward for Corbyn & McDonnell.
ransos - Member
Most of which was incurred by.....oh. Hold on. Erm.
Awks. As the kids say.It was a Tory idea, enthusiastically embraced by New Labour. I'm not sure why that's awkward for Corbyn & McDonnell.
Shadow Health Sec said on the Today programme that we needed all those lovely shiny new buildings as "in the 90s many hospitals and schools were still in Victorian buildings". He went on to say that most PFI contracts did give value for money but a small number were costing too much. His proposal was to go through every PFI contract out there and assess VFM. When asked how long that would take, he agreed it's years, rather than months, so would take way longer than a Parliament to actually derive any value.
Seems it's another meaningless headline policy
Seems it's another meaningless headline policy
It's going to look like a comprehensive 20 year plan compared to any 'policy' you'll be hearing next week
AlexSimon - MemberOne of the most biased sites around. It's like the right's version of The Canary.
It's really not much like the Canary; it's the UK's Breitbart.
When asked how long that would take, he agreed it's years, rather than months, so would take way longer than a Parliament to actually derive any value.
imagine planning long term rather than just looking to make yourself look good for the next election !!
There won't be any policy next week.
None.
Just an anti Labour media shitstorm.
Have you joined the Liberals yet Binners?
🙂
I bet you could do a nice picture of Vince sucking a Werther's and trying to look like he can still remember where his slippers are.
There won't be any policy next week.None.
Just an anti Labour media shitstorm.
I actually think that they're now so busy fighting with each other, they've forgotten about the labour party that they failed to win a majority over a few months back
kimbers - Member
When asked how long that would take, he agreed it's years, rather than months, so would take way longer than a Parliament to actually derive any value.
imagine planning long term rather than just looking to make yourself look good for the next election !!
But McDonnell said that they only put in the manifesto what they will deliver within the term of the Parliament. There's setting a vision and including a policy promise and he's not clear about the difference.
His proposal was to go through every PFI contract out there and assess VFM. When asked how long that would take, he agreed it's years, rather than months, so would take way longer than a Parliament to actually derive any value.Seems it's another meaningless headline policy
Eh? PFI contracts are often 25 years or more.
The quote I gave coems from the Head of Equality and Race Relations Committee. The Jewish community pretty much unviversally described Shakrabati’s “report”as a whitewash. The media didn’t ban Jackie Walker or setup a meeting where attendees compared Israel to the Nazis (something which is always done to cause maximum offence) nor attempt to normalise “anti-Zionism”. Corbyn could have put all this to bed by publishing the report into Oxford University Labour Club.
Labour’ policy idea to nationalise the utilities at something other than the market price will guaranty a significant legal challenge. Do you think the French Government is going to allow major French companies to be so significantly under paid without a significant responce ? What about all the pension funds who own Utility shares ?
As for credit cards a cap on interest rates does make sense (it exists in the US), it has to be very carefully managed or it will just have the effect of significantly reducing availability to those who need them most. Labour’s idea of a cap on total repayments exists no where I am aware of and makes no sense imo.
Run on the Pound and Capital Flight
Surely McDonnell must understand to even say such a thing is idiotic in the extreme. Anyone with half a brain would have no assets invested in uk markets with McDonnell in charge of the economy.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-41393021
Surely McDonnell must understand to even say such a thing is idiotic in the extreme. Anyone with half a brain would have no assets invested in uk markets with McDonnell in charge of the economy.
Because he should have known that dishonest commentators would misrepresent his words? Meanwhile, remind us when was the last run on the pound....
The Indepedent. Damn The Right Wing Press.
Supposedly a speaker said you should be able to question whether the Holocaust took place.
Meanwhile, remind us when was the last run on the pound....
Ohh so many to choose from. .......
Just go with the last two. The one about 24hours before Cameron resigned. Or what about the one under Major that lead to 15% inflation. If only they'd had a plan rather than a catchy tune to hum whilst leaving their resignation press confrence?
kimbers - Member
I think whats really worrying the RW press is that Labour are coming across as the grown ups,
Be serious. It's snake oil and populism. Make major saccharin policy statement - to great hurrah - and hide on the details. PFI being the latest example. McDonald says one thing, contradictory details v quickly follow, then the smokescreen.
The brilliant (genuinely) ability of labour to be anything other than grown up when it comes to social media - shows how well they understand social media and how to target those without experience of checking the details. The Tories are crap at that.
@thisisnot a Marxist speaking ofnationalising companies at historical non marlet share prices is going to scare the living daylights out of any pension fund manager. I wonder how McDonnell will stop Hedge Funds shorting utility shares ahead of a GE when he is not even Chancellor, will he be begging the Tories to do that for him ?
Haven't seen full/any coverage but what was the comment on scenario planning re fall in £?
thisisnot a Marxist speaking ofnationalising companies at historical non marlet share prices is going to scare the living daylights out of any pension fund manager. I wonder how McDonnell will stop Hedge Funds shorting utility shares ahead of a GE when he is not even Chancellor, will he be begging the Tories to do that for him ?
[Not being serious, or am I]
But you keep having a go at Gordon for making the opposite mistake!
And it'll just make up the shortfall of the more recent underpriced Royal Mail shares.
[/Not being serious, or am I]
[quote=teamhurtmore said]Haven't seen full/any coverage but what was the comment on scenario planning re fall in £?
This bloke's on the case.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Barbrook
If only the brexiters had the foresight to plan for such an eventuality...
Like I said Labour coming across as the grown ups with a plan
The right wingers worried because they know the Tory conference is going to be a farce, a puppet leader encircled by enemies and only one policy- brexishambles !
Network Rail is already a 'nationalised' company and look at how well it does - the majority of problems are caused by signal failures (in this age), etc.
Haven't seen full/any coverage but what was the comment on scenario planning re fall in £?
He basiy said they were being sensible and had contingency plans incase the market got spooked by a leftist win.
Network Rail is already a 'nationalised' company and look at how well it does - the majority of problems are caused by signal failures (in this age), etc.
Bit like saying the majority of IT failures are computer related?
@kimbers the 13% odd sell off in the £ isn't a run imo. We are only really back at 2009 levels vs the € and the world didn’t end then. You are quite right though Cameron did nothing to prepare for a Leave result. At least Carney was on the ball. Having a Marxist running the economy of the world’s 6th largest economy would be unprecidented, certainly would scare the S out of me personally and professionally - how to protect myself ? As I said before by 2023 I’ll almost certainly be retired so probably easier to scoot
As for Tory conference Brexit is the issue of the day / next couple of years so it makes sense for it to be centre stage unlike in Brighton. I have no doubt they’ll try and roll out a few new ideas elsewhere but Brexit is the issue for 2017/18/19 ..
Short RBS - easy 😉
Well going long ceratinly didn’t work out
We are only really back at 2009 levels vs the €
And the $? That one that oil is priced in?
Network Rail is already a 'nationalised' company and look at how well it does - the majority of problems are caused by signal failures (in this age), etc.
Network Rail was formed because its private sector predecessor failed spectacularly.
Details details @molly 😉 I will admit I chose my point of reference deliberately. My view that will retrace back against the dollar too, anyway oil is at 50 now not 100 so not so much of a problem. If we can make shale work then it will be even less of a factor
Labour don’t seem to be able to think of stuff that won’t cost gazillions, student loans (£100bn / £10bn pa), investment bank £250bn, nationalising utilities (no way imho they can do that below market value) plus of course all the public sector pay rises
In nearly 20 years of visiting the US it's never been this low.
The public investment bank thing - presumably any return on that investment goes back to the public purse?
I wouldn't worry if I were you anyway Jam - the Tories will simply sell it all off again in their next government.
Labour don’t seem to be able to think of stuff that won’t cost gazillions,
I know, investing in the future, crazy stuff...
If you want to talk about political follies that will cost the country billions...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/brexit-paul-krugman-zero-chance-britain-better-off-eu-leave-single-market-custom-union-exports-trade-a7965871.html?amp
Kimbers - would you like to post the one line summary on how Paul assesses the cosy?
any return on that investment
😀
He gives it a cosy factor of extra snuggly I believe
Regards costs- it was because the benefits of membership have already been analysed, and quantified, citing examples
since you seem reluctant, here we go
“It’s not a huge cost ... but it is a cost,” he said.
As I said on other thread - some perspective
“It’s not a huge cost ... but it is a cost,” he said
Since you seem reluctant to put a number on it he said ~2% of GDP which is 40bn? Think of all the industries Labour could nationalise with that!
They should write that on a bus or something