[Closed] knocked of my motorbike whilst filtering - anyone with same experience?

If you have the van driver's details, surely you should pass them to the insurance company?

Something similar happened to someone I know. Call their bluff. It'll go to court. Chances are they'd rather not lie in court and settle, the day before... It'll take months though.

As above, the Van driver is your witness.

Also make sure your insurance company are very clear on the Fact that the driver admitted liability numerous times at the scene (potentially in front of the van driver/witness??)

Someone please give me something to be genuinely positive about. Please.

You're not seriously hurt (hopefully!)

As above, the Van driver is your witness.

Yes, but he's also a 3rd party as I struck him too, so is there not a conflict in calling him directly?

I will take it to court as there is no way on God's Earth im accepting liability, and yes, he'll have to lie in court to get away with it.
I just feel that even at this early stage, the van driver could be the key IF he did hear the driver saying what he said.

[IMG] [/IMG]

[i]Something similar happened to someone I know. Call their bluff. It'll go to court. Chances are they'd rather not lie in court and settle, the day before... It'll take months though. [/i]

Nope. It'll go knock-for-knock, if you are lucky - otherwise you'll be paying for any damage to his vehicle.

Been there, and had many near misses too (especially on the M25, western section for me).

Sorry, but I can't see it going any other way - especially as your one 'witness' didn't actually see what happened.

EDIT

[i]I will take it to court as there is no way on God's Earth im accepting liability, and yes, he'll have to lie in court to get away with it.
I just feel that even at this early stage, the van driver could be the key IF he did hear the driver saying what he said.[/i]

Anything said in the 'heat of the moment' is not really admissible, and you don't have to admit liability.

Filtering is a grey area, even somewhere like the M25 (road surface looks around A3?) where its common place.

I always cringe when I see bikers "filtering" on the motorway for this very reason. Glad you're not hurt, but I can't help but feel it's a 50/50 scenario at best in terms of insurance.

Heal quick

You're not seriously hurt (hopefully!)

Thanks, I know what you're saying, but.. im so skint that I cant see past the possible expense at the moment.
Must. Be. Positive.

Flying to US tomorrow on business trip. 9 hours couped up like a sardine with suspected partial torn bicep, bruised heels and shin/knee gashes - not to mention current onset of killer neck ache.
Oh joy!

I always cringe when I see bikers "filtering" on the motorway for this very reason. Glad you're not hurt, but I can't help but feel it's a 50/50 scenario at best in terms of insurance.

I feel the same. Despite filtering being totally legal and bikes having right of way when doing so. It totally sucks that this guy can simply lie, and probably get away with it.

I hate having another reason to despise human nature in general.

Yes, but he's also a 3rd party as I struck him too, so is there not a conflict in calling him directly?

He's still a witness.

Did he hear the driver say that be swerved into you ?

I hate having another reason to despise human nature in general.

Don't tar everyone with that brush.

On topic - was there no-one behind who'd have seen this? Guessing you don't have their details tho.

go to www.mcnninjas.co.uk which is a bike site and search for posts by a poster called "TC". he's a retired traffic cop who now works in the accident investigation for insurance companies. He has previously posted case law where filtering has been deemed acceptable and the car driver at fault.
Why did you not call the police if you were injured though? injury TA's they should attend and would solve a lot of problems.

chin up dude. Shit happens..

If you're injured (and I'm loathed to say this) but go to a no win no fee solicitor. Irwin Mitchell in Sheffield have a good rep for this kind of thing.

I had a similar incident on my fixie. Woman knocked me clean off at a roundabout, all apologetic at the time and then denied everything. No witnesses and only contacted the police after the event as I couldn't get her details any other way.

Dragged on for 2 years but I won in the end.

Important bit now is to write down everything you remember in as much detail as possible to form the basis of a witness statement.

If it does go to court, or even whilst the solicitors are arguing over things the more detail you have the more questions can be asked of the other party and the more awkward it is for them to avoid responsibility.

Note no win no fee works on a prospects of success basis. At all times the solicitor will be considering whether you have a 50% or greater chance of winning. If they keep acting for you, you know they must think there's a chance of victory.

Cheers

Danny B

Have a look here regarding a judgement on filtering[url= http://www.bikersoracle.com/vfr/forum/showthread.php?t=119463&highlight=filtering ][/url]

Also if you've got accidental damage away from your home on your insurance you'll be able to claim on that.

Hope it all works out. Almost had a similar incident on Thursday. Stationary traffic, filtering between a car and a small truck and the car steered in to close the gap for no reason. Traffic then started moving leaving me in a dodgy position and nowhere to go. Luckily i managed to get away with it.

Good luck. And get well.

Hope you make a speedy recovery but surely if filtering you should expect the unexpected? Very few car drivers seem to check their mirrors these days so I presume that you were filtering at a speed where you'd be able to stop easily if the unexpected happened in front?

Filtering should be banned IMO.

IMO get some advice from a motorcycle forum not from here. They will know a lot more than the people here.

Ho hum, your opinion is a ridiculous and clearly ill informed one. Filtering is safer for the biker and it reduces congestion. I smell a spitefull car owner sitting jealous faced in traffic while bikers zip past making progress.

Hope the op nails the lying beemer driver in court and heals up soon aswell.

[i]Filtering should be banned IMO. [/i]

What, along with overtaking, 'cos you can't? 😈

Filtering should be banned IMO.

What, along with overtaking, 'cos you can't?

Used to have a bunch of muppets filtering down the M60 when I drove that. Lots of jostling traffic and bikes doing 40/50mph vs 15-20 of the cars with close packed junctions. Recipe for disaster but then again I'm not the one putting myself there.

I'd probably seek legal advice from a specialist on the area as the driver could easily get someone to sort his side out to make it your fault. EG he could have moved over to avoid "Some other driver who moved" etc.

Bred2shred - Member

Ho hum, your opinion is a ridiculous and clearly ill informed one. Filtering is safer for the biker and it reduces congestion. I smell a spitefull car owner sitting jealous faced in traffic while bikers zip past making progress.

Aye!

Filtering at 85+ on the M8 westbound from Hermiston Gait!

I am not a spiteful car owner.

I take it you are one of those nippy wee motorcyclists doing ya bit!

b r - Member

Filtering should be banned IMO.

What, along with overtaking, 'cos you can't?

Overtaking is fine.

Undertaking isn't....

😈

double post, sorry

[i]Undertaking isn't....[/i]

If you can be undertaken, you're in the [b]wrong[/b] lane.

b r - Member

Undertaking isn't....

If you can be undertaken, you're in the wrong lane.

Not by someone who is breaking the speed limit 😉

Not to be a couch expert but the tyre mark does support your version of events not his- that's not a clipping while riding alongside, it's clearly a riding right into the side, which would be hard to arrange while filtering.

Was there a 999 call? anything useful in it?

I just don't really understand why a BMW driver would be pulling out of the BMW lane...

Northwind - Member

Not to be a couch expert but the tyre mark does support your version of events not his- that's not a clipping while riding alongside, it's clearly a riding right into the side, which would be hard to arrange while filtering.

Was there a 999 call? anything useful in it?

I just don't really understand why a BMW driver would be pulling out of the BMW lane...

I am a "proud" BMW driver and I will change lanes as the road and car conditions change...

Without looking or indicating like the rest of the BMW drivers i'll wager. 😛

Bred2shred - Member

Without looking or indicating like the rest of the BMW drivers i'll wager.

I indicate.

I have had to replace my indicator bulbs countless times because they have been worn out....

Northwind, I hope you are right. I too think that the mark on his door gives a fair idea as to how I came into contact. Pretty difficult to make such a mark if he was pointing directly forward.

I was travelling under 20mph, which is the legal limit. He moved across my path so quickly that despite hitting both brakes I had no choice but to hit him. I must reiterate, he moved across to the left very suddenly and he had absolutely nowhere to go, if he didn't hit me he would presumably hit the van in the middle lane. There was no other traffic that he was trying to avoid as he was sat in the outside lane.

Ho hum - member

Aye!

Filtering at 85+ on the M8 westbound from Hermiston Gait!

I am not a spiteful car owner.

I take it you are one of those nippy wee motorcyclists doing ya bit!

Dont tar us all with the same brush. Yes some bikers filtering etiquette is far from ideal. But you'd punish those of us who do it safely just to make yourself feel better.

I drive to work and ride the bike so i feel i know more about the situaton than you do.

So how about you wind yer neck in and less of the nippy wee motorcyclists.

And BTW you still ye still come across as spitefull.

b r - Member

[i]Undertaking isn't....[/i]

If you can be undertaken, you're in the wrong lane.

Humbug (although I appreciate you're hopefully not entirely serious)! More than once I've pulled into the outside lane to overtake slower traffic, only to watch some twit undertake me at 90 and pull out three cars forward, braking hard and causing havoc.

And on clogged dual carriageways, you're constantly overtaking / being undertaken without switching lanes.

Bred2shred - Member

Dont tar us all with the same brush. Yes some bikers filtering etiquette is far from ideal. But you'd punish those of us who do it safely just to make yourself feel better.

I drive to work and ride the bike so i feel i know more about the situaton than you do.

So how about you wind yer neck in and less of the nippy wee motorcyclists.

And BTW you still ye still come across as spitefull.

I am not spiteful.

And I am not going to "wind my neck in".

Some of you guys on motorbikes are an accident waiting to happen and I am buggered if I am going to end up feeling bad because one of you ended up dying because you were exercising your legal right to filter!

Filter when the traffic is moving slowly, but not at 85+ mph!

Edit - how does riding a motorbike make you some sort of "road" god?

Ho hum - Member

Filter when the traffic is moving slowly, but not at 85+ mph!

So should it be banned or not? Make your mind up feller. Doing it at 85mph+ is already illegal.

.

member - Ho hum

I am not spiteful.

And I am not going to "wind my neck in".

Some of you guys on motorbikes are an accident waiting to happen and I am buggered if I am going to end up feeling bad because one of you ended up dying because you were exercising your legal right to filter!

Filter when the traffic is moving slowly, but not at 85+ mph!

Edit - how does riding a motorbike make you some sort of "road" god?

Not spiteful eh, i think yer 3rd paragraph might shoot you in the foot there matey.

Ffs i've already agreed with you about fast filtering and that i dont condone such behaviour.

And as for the last comment, it doesn't make me a "road" god. Just better than you.

Think bike!
Think biker!

Edit - how does riding a motorbike make you some sort of "road" god?

Filtering is an art so it is.

The fact that it winds up car drivers was a complete delight for me.

but not at 85+ mph!

I wouldn't class that as filtering.

That's just undertaking and wreckless riding.

Thread seems to have go a bit de-railed - I think most people would agree that filtering at high speed is stupid and risky. The OP said he was filtering at a slow pace - dunno what that is..but on the M25 it's hardly going to be fast is it 😛

Anyway, hope the OP gets well soon.

could always try http://www.sorrymate.com

Slimjim, i see you hit/got hit by a bmw with the optional mirror and indicator fitted.

50/50 split on costs, put a claim in for your injuries and stuff damageded etc, then buy a car or use public transport,instead of dressing up as a power ranger lookalike or someone going to a gay fetish club night. 😀

I'd keep pushing!

The tyre mark on the car couldn't have been caused by you clipping the car and falling off.

The insurance company is simply trying to get you to back down to save money. The fact its TPTF might actually help in that you could hire a proper no win no fee type lawyer and won't lose the no claims bonus like you would otherwise (maybe!?).

IMO the key to winning stuff like this is persistence. Pay out the money yourself now, but then just take a relaxed view of things. Keep feeding the other driver extra letters, and bits of eveidence every 2 weeks or so (pictures, quotes from the other driver etc...) eventually he will get tired of coming home to find another letter to get stressed about and just give up.

If it goes to court, the BMW driver will be cross examined in court. Unless he's a moron, its very likely he'll just want to avoid the hassle (especially since he's lying).

Thats what happened to me anyway

Dirk, I didn't watch much of that vid but 9m34s is enough to confirm that the rider is a ****.

Dirk, I didn't watch much of that vid but 9m34s is enough to confirm that the rider is a *.

It does look like he is filtering through some quite narrow gaps that might just disapear at any time (not been in london much tho), but the manouver at 9m34 is possibly the least questionable. Completely stationary traffic, goes around a parked car, why is that *ish?

[i]I was travelling under 20mph, which is the legal limit.[/i]

There is no such thing as a legal limit for filtering. Its whatever you feel is the safest (including not doing it).

[i]If it goes to court, the BMW driver will be cross examined in court. Unless he's a moron, its very likely he'll just want to avoid the hassle (especially since he's lying).[/i]

Go to court, are you serious? Knock-for-knock if the OP is lucky, and as he's TPFT he won't loose any NCD as there is nothing for his Ins Co to pay out.

Amusing that the guy in the video describes the woman in the mini as a "****ing retard" for basically doing exactly what he's doing, trying to get to the head of the traffic first regardless how much of a pain int he arse he's being to other road users.

Just a thought and I'm in no way an expert, but if the BMW was pointing straight ahead as he claims then won't there be some sort of damage further back along the car where you would have clipped him with your handlebars or footpegs before your front tyre made contact?

if the BMW was pointing straight ahead as he claims then won't there be some sort of damage further back along the car where you would have clipped him with your handlebars or footpegs before your front tyre made contact?

I think the suggestion was the OP lost control and hit the BMW, nothing to say he hit the back of it. If the OP actually hit it as it was angled across the road there is nothing in the damage to say he couldnt have been the one that swerved into the car.

As much as i like the baron he is a **** in that video

Going up the rhs and cutting in front of the van - does no one any favours tbh.

[i]Amusing that the guy in the video describes the woman in the mini as a "**** retard" for basically doing exactly what he's doing, trying to get to the head of the traffic first regardless how much of a pain int he arse he's being to other road users.[/i]

Nope. the lady in the Mini was in the wrong lane for the way she wanted to go, but most probably not sure of the junction.

As a motorcyclist the one pleasure you got on a 5hitty weather day was at least knowing your journey would still take no longer than normal and you'd pass hundreds (if not thousands) of cars/van taking twice as long to do the same journey. Nevermind the folk crammed into trains/tube.

But back to the OP. A problem I had with one bike (Fazer 1000) was that I could never get enough weight over the front tyre and consequently would often lock the front tyre when travelling slowly and needing to suddenly brake due to situations (esp filtering) - this caused me quite a few bottom-clench issues. Got an Triumph with ABS after that and never a problem, even with u-turning black cabs...

Had a very similar incident a year ago, I guess I got lucky as the guy that pulled out into me admitted full liability so it all panned out OK for me in the end. Did take 11 months for everything to finally get sorted though.

What is this 'filtering' as if it is some legitimate practice. The Bmw driver positions himself safely in a lane and you scoot down his blind spot in his mirrors. You took a risk..........

duntstick - Member

What is this 'filtering' as if it is some legitimate practice. The Bmw driver positions himself safely in a lane

Now you're not even trying are you? Filtering is legal and legitimate, and the BMW wasn't "positioned safely in a lane", he was changing lanes dangerously. I rate this an F. F Minus.

Your word against his, He could just say you appeared out of know where. I see this all the time travelling with work. I'm always aware of bikers as they do have a habit of just apearing next to you in traffic. This isn't a dig at you but bikers are like roadies, it's always the car drivers fault when infact most of the time its te other way round.

i've not read any of the comments but I've been here and i'm afraid it's a straight forward case.

I was riding in Liverpool and riding down a street which was full of cars waiting in a queue for some lights. The oncoming lane was closed so I had the whole oncoming lane to myself, so I was using it. Up ahead I could see a junction on my right (which had no entry signs, so nobody on my road could turn into it) and though if a car appears at that junction they won't look left, they'll only look right so it's best I slowed down and get near the centre, and straddled it.

As I did that a black cab decided he'd leave the queue, presumably to use the junction as a 3 point turn spot. No indication, straight out and I hit his front offside wing and went over the bonnet. 1 night in hospital with a sore leg...

at the time some bouncy little scouser came out of a coffee shop offering to be a witness, so I told the copper to get hold of him whilst I was taken off to hospital. When the copper came to hospital later he told me the scouser wouldn't give his details as a lot of people in Liverpool won't talk to the Police 🙄

The next day I was offered an equivalent 1200cc motorbilke, which was incredibly a Suzuki Hayabusa, which amazingly I couldn't insure if I had bought it as i was just short of the 2 years NCD you need for hyper bikes.

So, they delivered this 'busa to my home address and as I was out my ex signed for it, WHICH WAS A LOAN AGREEMENT @ £138 per day!!!! I had about £1300 of damage to my bike, my helmet and leathers etc and recover, excess etc came to about £1200. As Buell had only released the bike parts were thin on the ground and i had this hire bike for 36 days 😆

For months all sorts of claim companies were asking for claim reports etc etc and after 12 months of me pushing my own insurers for my losses, the other insurer came back with a request for a witness, at that point my insurers said they'd accpeted 50/50 aka 'knock for knock' on my behalf.

I vehemently refused to do so and was told if I wanted to push it down the court route then I'd get the whole bill if we lost. So I lost my nearly 2 years NCD, 50% of my third party losses and then they screwed me down further, I got about £350 for about £1200 of loses.

The peace de resistance was 2 years later I got a bill for £4968 from help hire who said despite the fact I had a 3rd party losses policy, I wasn't entitled to a hire bike as I had access to another vehicle, being my car. My solicitor told me it would go away and they had no hope, then the court forms and then the court date!!

In court, their insurers argued that I shouldn't have had the hire bike and 'because you paid for the policy' wasn't good enough reason. They even mentioned the fact someone called me one day and I said I couldn't talk to them because I was driving and didn't have hands free... I was driving my own company's van. I then mentioned that I had a track day season ticket and used to do regular tracks days, to which the reponse was "you're not insured for track days" to which they got a "i am with a specific track day policy' 😆 and at the point where the judge was really looking like he was going to favour them I realised I hadn't signed for the hire agreement.

Cools as cucumber I asked them for proof of signature and they opened up the file and saw it was signed very clearly by Miss K Cox. Within three minutes we were out of the court room scot free.

When you filter, you don't often break the law, you just lose your rights, so if you gonna do it make sure you don't have a coming together as it will always be knock for knock. My missus had the same in my company car three years ago with a foreign truck who took her out of lane 2. The insurers can't be arsed to fight with a foreign insurer so they penalise their own by making them go 50/50...

Good luck.

scousebri - Member

He could just say you appeared out of know where.

Nothing "appears out of nowhere", it's a bike not a tardis. And even if his obs weren't good enough, just indicating as you're bloody well required to by law would also have avoided it.

STATO - Member

Dirk, I didn't watch much of that vid but 9m34s is enough to confirm that the rider is a *.

It does look like he is filtering through some quite narrow gaps that might just disapear at any time (not been in london much tho), but the manouver at 9m34 is possibly the least questionable. Completely stationary traffic, goes around a parked car, why is that *ish?

Undertakes a moving taxi by accelerating towards a parked vehicle. Asking for trouble, so many different ways that could go wrong. Anyway, as mentioned I didn't watch much of the vid - there are no doubt worse manoeuvres on show.

Northwind take a pill and relax.

As I did that a black cab decided he'd leave the queue, presumably to use the junction as a 3 point turn spot.

I came within inches of buying the farm in a similar situation on my pushbike. I learned my lesson and calmed down. Hard to blame the motorist too much, I think, given my behaviour. Yes, he should have looked, but I put myself in a clearly dangerous position.

he was changing lanes dangerously

And even if his obs weren't good enough, just indicating as you're bloody well required to by law would also have avoided it.

I didn't read it as that - to me it sounds like there was already a van in the other lane. The BMW was moving around within his own lane and therefore narrowing the gap. No doubt he should have been more aware but you would not expect him to indicate. Not sure this effects who is at fault in any way, just correcting what looks like an interpretation inaccuracy.

I don't ride a motorbike so have never seen the road from that perspective, and whilst appreciating filtering as one of the huge advantages of riding one, it always looks like a lot of risk to put yourself in. Whilst they allow humans to drive cars the risk of one having a lapse of concentration (or just negligence) is always going to be there - do it enough and surely the law of averages will catch up with you eventually.

No, fair enough actually, I'd lost track of the original post.

At best this will go 50/50 - sorry. Filtering always is a risk and its tough luck.

Think bike!
Think biker!

I have often wondered when seeing these signs round Rivington and other bikey meccas whether or not they should read: "Think car, Think you'll win?" In reference to treating Sheep House Lane like your own personal racetrack.

I used to motorcycle in the 7os and 80s retiring my bikes in 1992. At the time the only filtering i came across was in town traffic at barely walking pace.

I'm amazed at some of the filtering i have seen in the last few years. It's an incredibly dangerous practice. You can shout thats it's legal all you want - to me it seems a bit dumb - car drivers are not expecting you to be there.

I hope that your injuries heal soon.

I was hit whilst stationary in my car by another car, the driver was looking behind trying to find the name of the road she'd just turned into. She admitted responsibility but then her insurance company tried to agree 50/50; my company rang her up asking her if she was willing to go to court. It was then sorted in my favour.

It should just be banned on safety grounds full stop, enough kids lose dads on bikes as it is, legal or not its only a matter of time before this happens and right or wrong the main thing is you are lucky to not be more injured or dead.

On the other hand an outright ban, but giving bikers use of the hard shoulder does make sense, stick to left, out of the way and safe

Banned because people move 1-2 tonnes of metal without looking? Not sure that makes sense. Filtering can be safe or dangerous depending on how you do it. Provided you are doing it safely, it seems nonsense to ban it because drivers refuse to use their mirrors.

Bland.

If people didnt live in bubbles when in their cars then you wouldnt be writing that

The problem is peoples attitudes, theyncant deal with thenfact that their car is not the best way to get around on our roads. Education is the issue for both mc and car drivers.

Get it all the time on the pusher , folks closing gaps to stop me making progress through absolutely stationary traffic in town. And i mean i can see them looking at me in the mirror before moving into my path. It annoys them greatly that my manuverable vehicle for 1 ( incidently the number of people usually in these stationary cars ) can just scooch round them.

I sadly think that whats happened here is mr bmw has gone to close the gap to "teach him a lesson" admitted fault at the scene so the police dont get called as it would be dangerous driving charge and then is trying to take the motorcyclist to the cleaners.

Lot's of the usual STW speculation and inaccurate legal advice. Here's the legal precedent which made it clear that not only is filtering legal for bikers it doesn't result in contributory negligence when a driver causes them to crash.

http://www.claimssolicitoruk.co.uk/injury-claim-success-stories/motorcycle-filtering-legitimised.php

I've been here and i'm afraid it's a straight forward case.

I presume your insurers weren't aware of that, which makes it clear that if you had gone to court you'd have won given that legal precedent (your case is remarkably similar to that one on the surface). Well that or it was just easier for them not to go to court - those suggesting it won't end up in court, well it will if you want it to (unless the other side settles).

End of thread methinks, hopefully the op can use this to his advantage.

Nice one aracer.

The critical difference though is that in the link posted above the rider was riding down the outside of a single line of traffic, in other words he was overtaking a queue of traffic and he was riding in the opposite lane.
The OP was riding between two queues of stationary traffic, all heading in the same direction.

It doesn't make a fundamental difference, Rockhopper. The issue for the OP is that the driver is lying, not the legality of his position or the liability for what actually happened. The question is whether he's prepared to take it to court, and whether the driver is prepared to lie under oath. I can't see any way in which the OP's insurers will take full responsibility for the incident unless they're taken to court.

[i]On the other hand an outright ban, but giving bikers use of the hard shoulder does make sense, stick to left, out of the way and safe [/i]

Do you actually drive? The hard-shoulder is for emergencies, nothing more and nothing less - unless signed otherwise (as per M42).

I'm not saying that - I'm saying that the case law referred to above isn't relevant to this accident.

Update:

3rd party insurers have admitted liability. Whoop!!

It was written to me in a paragraph way down a page from my acting solicitors - almost as an aside, I couldnt belive my eyes when I spotted it!
So justice prevails, thankfully. Although I highly expect its resulted from more of a costing exercise than a moral decision..