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Dogs scare me shitless when they are being agressive towards me. Got bitten when i was a child and have been chased by some right scarey almost feral dogs about my bit growing up. tbh I've never been comfortable with them since.
Worst thing is that people just laugh it off in a he's just playing he'll never touch a soul, and don't see anything wrong with it. Aye marvellous mate, hope you're as understanding when i give it a playful kick in the teeth next time..
That's a bit like me, I always make sure there's someone between me and the scarey looking dogs.don simon - Member
Not sure how you guys manage to attract such things.I used to ride with a guy who would always, and I do mean always, attract attention from dogs. To make it worse he was scared of dogs, there were times where we'd have to ride in a group with him in the centre, protected by the rest of the group.
Again its owners, my dogs are not perfect but 90% of the time they let people simply walk by and pay no attention, it gets difficult, summer in the woods it gets crowded so they stay on the lead in busy areas. Occasionally they start to go to them to "have a sniff" but if I see them as sometimes the dogs are behind me I call them as I do not want them to harrass people. 905 of the time they come straight away. 99% on the second call. I certainly dont need to chase them all over the place to catch them.
Yea I agree if you feel threatened kick it in the nuts, better crack on the nose or simply stay still, hard when you are cacking it though,
Its like walkers v cyclists I read a lot of conflict here, dogs v walkers v cyclists is the same 90% get on great the odd few let everyone down and set poor examples.
Bare in mind I drive I cycle and I walk now I see the conflicts from every angle and try to understand them. My dog was nearly ran over by a lady cyclist on a footpath as she was going to fast. Its all about eductaion. See a dog slow down. Dog owners teach your dog good manners and yoursleves whilst your at it as dog owners dont have a right to let their dogs run wild.
AND PLEASE PICK UP YOUR SH!T and your dogs whilst your at it.
I don't actually mind, fair do's, dogs are dogs, sometimes they will get agressive, but the owner should be over immediately to control the dog.
The amount of times I've been really threatened by a dog, and you can tell when i'm literally terrified from them, and the owner barely even takes notice. it's unbelieveable..
I'm actually too nice after the fact, just my nature, maybe i should start getting aggressive with the dog owners..I agree it's absolutely their fault, but still that doesn't take away from the fact that if a dog ever goes too far, i'm not getting bitten again that's for sure..
Every right to defend yourself, I personally wouldn't hesitate if I felt threatened but if you can move away, many owners are idiots. Chavs with staffies and mastiffs are the worst in my experience. Trust me when I say this, the dog will invariably be more scared of you than you are of it.
Ok - accepted.
Frame it!!!
Doubtful! 🙁Trust me when I say this, the dog will invariably be more scared of you than you are of it.
IMO a good hard boot will teach the dog not to bite cyclists.
Unfortunately, it is more likely to teach the dog the opposite.
It could be that the last cyclist this dog encountered treated it badly (kicking, etc), and so now the dog is afraid of cyclists. Fear = aggression.
The way cyclists can help each other is to try to break this vicious cycle (sorry for the double-pun) by being extra-nice to every dog they meet; asking the owner if the dog is friendly, coasting by in a controlled manner, maybe even dismounting and playing with the dog before pedalling on.
On the other hand, I fully sympathise with folk who are bitten by out-of-control or fearful/aggressive dogs: it's always the owners' fault but all animals are unpredictable. You need to use a bit of trail sense and be prepared for dogs and learn how to be around them if you don't already. Because, despite what TJ says, dogs are allowed to walk bridleways off-lead. And dogs don't care much for the [i]letter[/i] of the law.
If any dog bit me it would be reported to the police. Whether it's put down or not is neither here nor there.
If any dog bit me it would be reported to the police.
Yes, that too. It could be a baby's face next time.
Yes, that too. It could be a baby's face next time.
Teeth or no teeth, babies can still do a lot of damage.
TandemJeremy - Member
Ok - accepted.
Anyone else really worried, that the world is going to end today ........
As something is very very wrong when TJ is appearing to be reasonable and rational.
Beat the owners, not the dog.
In this case why? the owner was out and the kid was banging on his front door and windows and sticking his hands through the letterbox.
. Because, despite what TJ says, dogs are allowed to walk bridleways off-lead.
I have never said they shouldn't - the dog should be under control at all times and under close control around livestock. I have said this many times. its only if you cannot control your dog without it being on a lead that you must keep it on one
..The way cyclists can help each other is to try to break this vicious cycle (sorry for the double-pun) by being extra-nice to every dog they meet; asking the owner if the dog is friendly, coasting by in a controlled manner, maybe even dismounting and playing with the dog before pedalling on.............You need to use a bit of trail sense and be prepared for dogs and learn how to be around them if you don't already.
However this is rubbish. Once again the selfish dog owner is putting the onus on the non dog owner. you have a duty to keep your dog under control and to allow me to go about my business without any hassle.
This is exactly why I always ride with a hoover full of aniseed, once deployed it works as a very effective decoy giving me ample time to pedal to safety.
I would also advise NOT painting a childs face on your knees.
Once again the selfish dog owner
I'm not selfish.
However this is rubbish.
No it's not.
You will have more luck talking to a brick wall DK, TJ has TJ's Law on his side.
No it's not.
Yes it is.
Only problem i've had with dogs when riding is accidentally stealing other people's. Turn round, I've got a dog, the dog's delighted as its had a good run, and obviously me riding is a heap more fun than their owner and their boring walking.
My dogs pretty good around people and riders, but i'm always very aware of whats going on cos at the end of the day, he's a dog, and not capable of seeing and understanding things in the way people are.
you have a duty to keep your dog under control and to allow me to go about my business without any hassle.
here we go again, care to show me the law that you describe?
the dog should be under control at all times and under close control around livestockA dog, unless its a working farm dog, should never be off the lead near livestock, thats so irresponsible. A farmer would typically shoot the dog and ask questions later. Righly aswell.
Passing dogs on a trail you should slow so as not to startle the animal, that said owners should be aware of their surroundings and the dogs potential reactions. All dog owners should have training to understand and work with their dogs.
Regarding my comments earlier the parent was not out with the child as the "little scamp" runs around at all hours day and night in the street. Its a wonder he has not been knocked down. Yes I have thought "social services" but I realy do not want to get involved with that as I dont see it helping. The said parent even gave me grief for asking said littleun to "get off my land" on one occasion.
A dog, unless its a working farm dog, should never be off the lead near livestock
this I'm afraid is complete bollocks there is many an owner who thought this that has been trampled by cattle.
Dorset knob -
it is complete piffle I am afraid - why should I have to take steps to placate your badly trained dog. why do I have to "learn how to be around them if you don't already." A well trained dog is of no hassle to anyone else and it is completely wrong to say I should stop and pet it. No - you should keep it under control at all times as the law says.
And yes AA - I have extensively quoted the law on this before. You like many dog owners do not want to accept your legal duties. I suggest you look up the legal stuff I quoted before. Or the kennel club has guidence for you.
its really very clear and simply - you have a duty to keep your dog under control at all times. That means your dog is not a hassle to anyone else at all.
However it does not have to be on a lead around livestock - it has to be under close control.
A dog, unless its a working farm dog, never dream of having my dogs off lead near livestock, thats so irresponsible.
Well that's me buggered then as there are sheep in the field next to my house, and some of the lambs regularly come into my garden (jump the fence).
So according to TJ's law, should my dog be on the lead in my garden? As its near livestock (within a few feet at times)
And yes AA - I have extensively quoted the law on this before. You like many dog owners do not want to accept your legal duties.
Have you? I didn't think you have ever quoted actual law's just TJ's law and guidance information.
funnly enough had dog aggro on sat whilst out on a ride coming down hill which is always busy with walkers so going slowly see a dog walker ahead of me (at least 20metres) she hadn't seen me or my bro who was a little bit behind me called out a cheerie hello to make her awhere of me so she had pleanty of chance to call her dogs(3)back and get them under control oh no she did no more than look up and throw a stick for her dogs to chase in my direction managed to just avoid dogs nearly put myself in a ditch(at least 10mtrs deep) in the process then got really shirty when i had a go at her for not having her dogs under control so advised her next time i'd give the dog/dogs a good kick next time this does seam to be on the increase at the mo 🙄
So according to TJ's law, should my dog be on the lead in my garden? As its near livestock (within a few feet at times)
do you actually bother to read what I wrote?
TandemJeremy - Member.... under close control around livestock.
TandemJeremy - MemberHowever it does not have to be on a lead around livestock - it has to be under close control.
Sorry I do not see the relationship between an owner being trampled by cattle and a dog on a lead. So an owner in a field of cattle should have his dog off a lead! Now that is BOLLOCKS!
Also you say many, do you have a statistic to support that? Is it hundreds, thousands or simply a rare occurence? Yes people have been trampled, not all with dogs.
Dog was barking, scared the cattle, dog should not have been barking owner should have seen the risk.
http://articles.cnn.com/2009-06-22/world/uk.cows.trampling_1_cows-dogs-incidents?_s=PM:WORLD
Dogs not on the lead
http://www.nairaland.com/752184/61-yr-old-woman-trampled
Dog was barking.
3 in 3 years from a quick search all avoidable with common sense.
were you on a footpath at the time? as it could be a militant walker.
Also if you attack a dog, and get mauled don't expect any sympathy from the Police, and if you hurt it expect a very large bill for damaging someone else's property.
RichC
And yes I have extensively quoted both law and the guidence to it
You like too many dog owners simply do not want to accept you have a duty to keep your dog under control at all times. If its properly trained and can do this without being on a lead then that is fine. All I want is as is my right to go about my business unaffected by your dog. its not too much to ask is it?
TJ is, of course, 100% correct. Dog owners should protect the public from the dangerous actions of their dogs.
And yes AA - I have extensively quoted the law on this before. You like many dog owners do not want to accept your legal duties.
you have never quoted a law, you have quoted guidlines and you have no idea what I do or do not do in real life, so I'd appreciated it you didnt make assumptions about me.
pingu.. well its in the daily mail it must be true, I however spent half my life working on farms with cattle so I'll take my own opinion thanks. If a cow wants to chase my dog it isnt going to have me attached to it.
Jeremy hit the nail on the head, "a duty", too many people see dogs simply as pets rather than what they are or what they were bred for. Herding, hunting protection. Most if not all dogs have specific traits aligned to their breed and most owners are oblivious to theeir dogs needs. People owning huskies that want to be out all day locked up, collies that dont get the required stimulation, yeah they all look great at 6-8 weeks old and everyone loves them.
They forget that they can grow to 50, 60 70kg and hunt like they were bred to do. Its doing what nature intended in many cases and owner education is paramount.
Most dog owners are idiots, some cyclists are, I am sure we have all had our moments but lets not tar everyone with the same brush.
In RichC's case the owner was a moron, wether it was a footpath or not if RichC was wrong not controlling your dogs is stupidity.
you have quoted guidlines and you have no idea what I do or do not do in real life, so I'd appreciated it you didnt make assumptions about me.
You would never make assumption about others on here, would you? 😆
AA - I have extensively quoted the law. You make it clear from your attitude to this question that yo are a dog owner that does not want to meet your legal responsibilities.
you are right about the cattle tho - again the guidance is that if yoau re with a dog and the cattle charge you let teh dog off the lead so it can runn off and draw the cattle away
AA
If a cow wants to chase your dog? Geez so you would happily let your dog in a field of cows to be chased, potentially shot by a farmer??????
As Tandemjeremy comments is correct that you can release the dog to distract the cattle. However IF you were in proper control that should not arise.
Cross fields of cattle but always give them a wide berth. A little common sense goes along way sometimes.
you are right about the cattle tho - again the guidance is that if yoau re with a dog and the cattle charge you let teh dog off the lead so it can runn off and draw the cattle away
but is it a law 😆
pingu...ever worked on a farm? Cows move you know so giving them a wide berth doesnt help
AA - I have extensively quoted the law.
Yeah TJ's law, not the law in the real world.
I have only ever seen you quote guidelines. This is where your total lack of any legal qualification or experience shows up as you do not know the difference.
In RichC's case the owner was a moron, wether it was a footpath or not if RichC was wrong not controlling your dogs is stupidity
Not me that almost fell off due to a walker not controlling their dog, actually what was described wasn't a case of the owner not controlling their pet but more a total disregard to anyone else. Its not the dogs fault its owner is a numpty.
The previous comment is correct that you can release the dog to distract the cattle. However IF you were in proper control that should not arise.
Hang on a minute, how can it be your fault that you are chased by some farmers cows? If anything the farmer is on dodgy ground as they aren't allowed to obstruct footpaths.
Doubt that "obstructing footpaths" would stand up RichC not with landowners who traditionally wrote the laws unfortunately! Not the meek and humble who can only enjoy it occasionally with all accusations of tresspass and rights of way, and I agree the dog owner you encountered was numpty.
AA not sure that having worked on a farm or not doesn't qualify me to sy "give a wide berth", probably because I have not worked on a farm I would have my dog under control and give the cattle a wide berth and never had an incident, and indeed not been trampled, simples.
Just saying common sense.
Facts
Most dog owners are inept at best.
Theres always a risk and if dog owners knew their animals better there would be fewer issues.
As a cyclist slow down a little when passing dogs and give the owner time if necessary to recall their dogs.
We are getting far to hung up on scenarios here, accidents and unforseen situations can arise but its rarely if ever a dogs fault usually the owners.
How many dogs do you still see out without owners, far too many. Unfortuantely the law of the land has to try to be a catch all for many situations which it simply cannot forsee every eventuality.
We are described as a nation of animal lovers but if you loved your animal you would be able to handle them and understand their needs and driving forces. I work really hard with my dogs from integrating them with and getting used to people, exposing them to unfamiliar surroundings, understanding them. I am far from the best and make mistakes that I learn from but the standard of dog ownership is far too low in this country.
As a cyclist slow down a little when passing dogs and give the owner time if necessary to recall their dogs.
Face it, we're all selfish, so that'll never happen.
Pingu glad you have never had an incident a.d hope you never do. You do however show a somewhat i dont know nieve or something understanding of cattle.
I do think its important to get this stuff right - if one wants dog owners to control their dogs its important to know their responsibilities
However, if cattle or horses chase you and your dog, it is safer to let your dog off the lead – don’t risk getting hurt by trying to protect it. Your dog will be much safer if you let it run away from a farm animal in these circumstances and so will you.
http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/ourwork/enjoying/countrysidecode/keepdogs.aspx
Also
When you take your dog into the outdoors, always ensure it does not disturb wildlife, farm animals, horses or other people by keeping it under effective control. This means that you:keep your dog on a lead, or
keep it in sight at all times, be aware of what it’s doing and be confident it will return to you promptly on command
Now you will claim this is just guidance - however under the law ( aminals act and various other bits of legislation and civil / case law) you ard judged on a whether you have taken reasonable precautions. Waht is reasonable is ultimately decided buy a jury but if you are withing the code or guidance then yoaure behaving in a rasonable manner.
Its not rocket science - all I want is to go about my business without being bothered by your dog and that is my right as it it your duty to ensure it happens.
Now you will claim this is just guidance - however under the law ( aminals act and various other bits of legislation and civil / case law)
can you post these laws rather than your guidlines. These are clearly bollocks
When you take your dog into the outdoors, always ensure it does not disturb wildlife, farm animals, horses or other people
My dog regularly kills rabbits this is not illegal.
keep it in sight at all times, be aware of what it’s doing and be confident it will return to you promptly on command
That would be a decision that only the dog owner can make, not a random passer by, no? I have pretty good eyesight and I've seen dogs be controlled perfectly over significant distances. What exactly do those statements mean?
Yes I do jave a niaive view of cattle hence giving them a wide berth, similarly you have a niaive view of dog ownership or people in general perhaps. I live in a city and enjoy the country and try to respect the countryside. So dont interact with cattle that often. Maybe you interact with them a whole lot more in significantly different ways, I don't know. However I do think that I am entitled to a vieewpoint.
Oh and I am still awaiting your statistics on the numbers of dog owners trampled by cattle to substantiate the "significant" numbers you speak of. As above I found three and there are factors there that indicate each may have been prevented.
Unfortunately should we therefore not destroy all cattle as they constitute a dangerous rampaging mass hell bent on trampling innocent walkers, indeed even rampaging through cities after escaping their abductors, hell bent on revenge for us eating them.
Or should we hold farmers accountable for not being in proper control of their cattle. Get real.