Yeah I am amazed. Why should something so obvious need explaining?
Trump supporters were deliberately trying to undermine democracy.
We’re they? Or were they protesting against a system which is rigged against the working class? It’s an oft-used accusation that anyone taking direct action is acting against democracy. In this regard the Kazakh protestors and Capitol protestors are no different.
No they weren't protesting against a system which is rigged against the working class. They weren't protesting against the system at all.
They tried to stage a coup because a billionaire told them a pack of lies, which they chose to believe, that he had won the presidential election.
A totally shocking article in the Observer today. It’s difficult to believe, I know, but apparently the ill-gotten billions of the corrupt ruling elite ended up in….
London!
Well, who’d have thunk it? I’m shocked! Shocked, I tell you!
How the Kazakh elite put its wealth into UK property
It's turning out this has ended up in a bit of a power struggle eh? Wonder if there was a genuine protest to start or not? Difficult to tell either way tbh.
anti-government protestors in the US a year ago. Would someone care to explain the difference cos I’m struggling?
Well, one has ordinary people protesting against an autocratic, undemocratic government, the other has a bunch of right-wing demonstrators complaining about a democratically elected government, driven on by a narcissistic, autocratic loser of an ex-president. Take your pick.
bunch of right-wing demonstrators complaining about a democratically elected government
I think you are being unnecessarily generous to the mob which attacked the Capitol in Washington. It's stretching it a bit to describe them as demonstrators complaining.
They went there with the specific aim of physically stopping the electoral college carrying out its legal and constitutional role.
Although the irony of the presence of the Oath Keepers among the mob who tried, unsuccessfully, to carry out an unconstitutional coup isn't lost on me!
I have just spoken with by boss in living in Almaty, it has quietened down now and hasn't heard any gunshots for 36 hours. The supermarkets have reopened som people can buy food and supplies.
The word in the Almaty expat community is that this was an organised attempt at a coup, there were a number of people waiting for something to happen so they could take on the government. The reason Russia was asked to step in was because the Kazakh military stepped aside leaving the police (who were still loyal) to try to calm the protests. The fuel protests were all they needed. When the shooting started the general population went home just leaving the organised rioters who were hoping for support.
Flights out of the country are have restarted from Astana, Almaty airport is being repaired and will be open again at the end of the week. There are still check points in the city so you can't go too far from home.
I worked in Almaty for a little while and am still friends with our business partners there.
The ordinary folk are (he tells me) not involved in this and are terrified. They're hiding in their homes and have been since the fuse was lit. The fuel price protests were peaceful but then escalated. He believes that there are a lot of imported / trained militants. Some speculation on social media that many may have come from Afghanistan. Who knows?!
Putin suspects western support for the uprising.
The Kazakh's believe it is a pissing match between the new guy and the old guy who still retains a lot of power despite not being the president any more.
Anyway - the more I read on this, the more confusing it all seems to be. but there definitely is an unseen hand being played by someone here.
Or were they protesting against a system which is rigged against the working class?
I wasn't aware that the Washingon rioters were protesting against capitalism and trying to usher in more democratic accountability. Kind of seemed like the opposite tbh.
I wasn’t aware that the Washingon rioters were protesting against capitalism
I didn't say that though. I said they were protesting against an elite which long ago abandoned any pretence of governing and operating in the interests of normal people. The problem isn't primarily an economic one, although it's inherently connected. The problem is that people of all political leanings have lost all trust and faith in their leaders. That's happened because over the past 20-30 years the political and business establishment lost sight of the fact that they exist by the consent of the people. And now the people take every opportunity, however ill-thought out or reactionary, to express that anger. The end result is things like brexit, Trump, Boris, the storming of the capitol, the anti-vax movement, climate change denial and all sorts of other reactionary nonsense.
interesting update from within the country, thank you<span style="text-decoration: underline;">.</span>
Dazh,
They were protesting against democracy. That's all.
said they were protesting against an elite
The attack on the US Capitol was not a protest. It was an attempt to stop the Joint session of the United States Congress from counting the electoral votes. It was an attempt to reverse the result of a presidential election.
Interesting article in today's Guardian concerning Kazakhstan.
"Why do foreign oil workers earn so much more than Kazakhs?"
I can understand why the expat community in Kazakhstan might be nervous and concerned by the thought of a challenge to the existing status quo.
Putin suspects western support for the uprising.
He is certainly claiming that, presumably he feels it provides him with some justification for intervention, but there really appears to be no evidence.
IME whenever Western powers are involved in interference and destabilisation of foreign governments, even when it is done completely covertly, there is a period of sustained criticism of the regime to prepare domestic opinion to accept regime change. This doesn't appear to be the case with Kazakhstan.
Furthermore I don't see how regime change would particularly benefit the West. The fuel protests which kicked things off were apparently in response to a change in government policy. According to the Guardian article :
The government is all about bringing in free-market rules and finally burying the vestiges of the command economy that prevailed when Kazakhstan was a Soviet republic.
I'm sure that meets the approval of Western governments.
“Why do foreign oil workers earn so much more than Kazakhs?”
I do not work in oil and gas, I work in mining. The problem in Kazakhstan is with education, particularly the way it is given, they are taught facts. There is no reasoning or problem solving taught, the expats are paid to solve the problems and not do the day to day work. Solving the problems to keep a plant going at $3M of revenue generation is worth more to a company than an operator who can be replaced.
I have worked with some great guys in KZ who can solve problems and foresee issues but these are in the minority (3-4 out of a couple of thousands).
Another problem stems from the soviet days, taking responsibility. Everyone wants a say but no one wants to take responsibility for fear of being punished severely rather than
It being a learning opportunity.
