[Closed] Ken Livingstone - you cretin

Couldn't have anything to do with the fact that he's an unlikeable, hypocritical, tax-dodging oaf, could it?

Couldn't have anything to do with the fact that he's an unlikeable, hypocritical, tax-dodging, [b]anti-semetic[/b] oaf, could it?

FIFY

In an opinion poll, Londoners said that they thought Ken would be more effective at running the city, but Boris was a better bloke to have a drink with. I conclude that Londoners have got what they deserve.

Couldn't have anything to do with the fact that he's an unlikeable, hypocritical, tax-dodging oaf, could it?

Which one?

He made a major error with the tax question. Made him look very stupid.

In addition, when he came out and said he looked after those London's who struggled to put food on the table it made me cringe trying to play this card to get out of the above mistake.

Two recent trips to London have convinced me that the city centre is now populated and frequented almost entirely by toffs while all the dross are living waaay out in the suburbs. Boris being a toff would be the natural choice of the majority of voters.

Boris wins by default this time. The opponents from the other two main parties are the same ones from the election four years ago.

Time to move on Mr Paddick and Mr Livingstone.

tax-dodging oaf

just shows where the recession and cuts are biting, or not.

wo recent trips to London have convinced me that the city centre is now populated and frequented almost entirely by toffs while all the dross are living waaay out in the suburbs. Boris being a toff would be the natural choice of the majority of voters.

Or if you actually lived in London you'd see the people as aspirational, wanting to be their best, be the best. The Toffs DONT live in London. The Minions tend to.

Klunk - Member
just shows where the recession and cuts are biting, or not.

Biting where they need to, at the cheap lager bloated butts of the dole scroungers and wasters 😆

Lot of it comes down to serious dislike of Ken. I never voted vor him, but I dont think he was a terrible mayor. People forget how far he went to get on with business and central government so as to get things done for the city.

Once back in opposition it was back to the same old 1980s rhetoric trying to Balkanise London into ethnic groups and so on. I can tell you that in my circle of right thinking liberal Londoners, when he declared that he wanted to "turn London into a beacon of Islam" there was a collective answer of - No, actually thats not what we want thanks very much.

[i]Biting where they need to, at the cheap lager bloated butts of the dole scroungers and wasters [/i]

nice way to describe the rest of the country. 🙄

Was Ken Livingstone actually tax dodging? I thought it was shown that he had done nothing wrong, and in fact by taking money out of his company as earnings rather than dividends he was actually paying more tax than would be required by someone minimising their tax liability.

Basically it was just a load of mudslinging by the right wing press. Which clearly worked.

He made a major error with the tax question. Made him look very stupid.

In addition, when he came out and said he looked after those London's who struggled to put food on the table it made me cringe trying to play this card to get out of the above mistake.

Dont forget his Oscar attempt as well! Crying at his own election vid...

Sorry Ken I dont particularly trust Boris but I trust you even less!

Rightwing press? Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/apr/03/boris-johnson-rant-ken-livingstone

Livingstone has been accused of hypocrisy for denouncing those who avoid tax while having set up a private company, Silveta, to channel his earnings, so he was liable to pay corporation tax at 20% rather than income tax at a higher rate.

"The fact is, Boris and I are in exactly the same situation," Livingstone told listeners. "We both had media earnings. We both put them through a company. You have to pay tax on the money you take out."

At the very least Ken was avoiding paying his share. Legally but if you want to throw mud, make sure your not wearing a white shirt..

MSP, his tax affairs were entirely legal. The problem was his posturing about anyone using such tax affairs made him look more than a little hypocritical. Combined with the promise (Still unfulfilled) of publishing his full tax details, as every other candidate did, he really shot himself in the foot.

That's an article showing Boris loosing it in an interview, with some "hearsay" about Red kens taxes. Nothing in their showing any impropriety by Ken at all.

Cap'n STILL?

MSP can you read?

Kens by far the better mayor but his PR machine was way outdone by Borris'
kens anti semitism probably outdid borris racism and sexism, but not by much

Borris has been a dreadful mayor;
his defence of his city chums in the face of their utter failure, his vanity project multimillion pound buses, fares rising through the roof, claiming crossrail and hire bikes as his own, his neutering of the cycle highways, alienating the met, trying to derail phonehacking investigation, pollution through the roof and his neglect of the poorer boroughs- his contempt for the voters during the riots couldnt have been more evident.

hes very popular in the city and had a lot of money thrown his way and has had the backing of the evening standard

the tax thing is quite amusing city mates have been slagging ken off for being a hypocrite yet they use similar or far more shady methods to reduce their own tax bills

The fact that he wanted to make London "the beacon for Islam" lost him a lot of votes, possibly the entire Jewish vote right there. A lot of people will remember the cronyism of his tenure when Lee Jasper [s]embezzled [/s] funded various organisations with hundred of thousands of pounds with nothing to show for it. Despite all this it was the tax dodging what done it. [url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/london-mayor-election/mayor-of-london/9136015/How-Ken-Livingstone-funnelled-238000-through-tax-avoidance-scheme.html ]No one likes a hypocrite[/url].

MSP, his tax affairs were entirely legal.

Not just legal, they were some what exemplary as far as I can recall, like I said he declared money taken out of the company as "earnings" how many others are actually that honest.

The biggest shock to me was how much money people were willing to pay to hear him speak, but I don't think there was any other mechanism for him to use for tax purposes other than a company.

Its not how he went about maximising his income from his earnings its the fact that he 'assumed' that Boris would do the same and I bet he was a bit shocked when it turns out Boris wasn't cut from the same cloth.

Not just legal, they were some what exemplary as far as I can recall

MSP you are really bending over backwards here. If you go and say that people who take measures to avoid tax should be banned from standing for public office THEN DO EXACTLY THAT you can hardly be surprised that you get labeled as a hypocrite.

Oh and the Guardian must have felt a tad hot around the collar reporting that seeing as they pulled a similar trick when they sold Autotrader.

also borris is a loveable cuddly ape

[img] [/img]

[url= http://www.buzzfeed.com/greggdd69/15-orangutans-that-look-like-london-mayor-boris-jo-5v0w ]http://www.buzzfeed.com/greggdd69/15-orangutans-that-look-like-london-mayor-boris-jo-5v0w[/url]

Its not how he went about maximising his income from his earnings its the fact that he 'assumed' that Boris would do the same and I bet he was a bit shocked when it turns out Boris wasn't cut from the same cloth.

Yes he is, his tax on his mayors salary is paid directly, the tax from media earnings go through a company.

There are alot of contractors who work within the public sector on day rates 200-1,000 a day who also class themselves as Ltd companies.

If everyone paid fair tax on what they earnt maybe this government/country wouldn't need to borrow/be in deficit so much.

A politician should at the very least lead by example not get the best for him (Jack).

MSP you are really bending over backwards here. If you go and say that people who take measures to avoid tax should be banned from standing for public office THEN DO EXACTLY THAT you can hardly be surprised that you get labeled as a hypocrite.

The moment he takes money from his company claiming it to be anything other than earnings, then that will be a fair criticism, has he done that?

the tax from media earnings go through a company

No Boris's are paid directly to him, but congratulations you are the only person in the country who doesn't think Livingstone got it wrong, are you Lee Jasper?

EDIT: In addition, Ken seems to have used the money to pay political staff, that is not a tax deductible expense and if he claimed one, he will have crossed the line.

“The other thing is I’ve used that [company money] to pay for people to work on the campaign for mayor.”

(Crossed with Z)

MSP, his tax affairs were [u]entirely[/u] legal.

Thats still an open question - as there is some level of 'confusion' still ongoing as to the role of people that Ken paid, through Silveta, to work on his election campaign, which was listed as a donation from Ken to the party, however also seems to have offset against tax as an allowable expense, which would not be legal.

Klunk - Member
....the cheap lager bloated butts of the dole scroungers and wasters

nice way to describe the rest of the country.

It was the nicest thing I could think of 😉
don't have an awful lot of time for the RotC to be honest- terrible bunch of chaps, flat hats, skinny dogs and all those eating and breeding disorders, really most unseemly.....

Ken or Boris? What a choice? Would you like you're huge shit sandwith on brown or white bread sir.

Another mighty fine reason, if yet another were required, I'm glad I don't live anywhere near that hell-hole

Thats still an open question

But how can that be? He promised to publish his tax affairs in full didn't he? Surely he did that [i]before[/i] the election? Every other candidate did. Maybe I missed it somewhere. That must be the case. He wouldn't have [s]chosen[/s] forgotten to publish them, would he?

Combined with the promise (Still unfulfilled) of publishing his full tax details, as every other candidate did, he really shot himself in the foot.

This is crucial.

Why havent you Ken? WHY? Everyone else has except you.....!

Edit: It appears Ken [url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/interactive/2012/apr/05/ken-livingstone-income-tax-details ]has[/url] but not till last night. Cunningly not giving much time for them to be examined...?

At least with Boris you get a slightly amusing character. Ken is just a bit too 'Steve Davis'.

Ken or Boris? What a choice? Would you like you're huge shit sandwith on brown or white bread sir

which is why I voted for neither.

Another mighty fine reason, if yet another were required, I'm glad I don't live anywhere near that hell-hole

have you tried it? I used to have that impression

Londoners - you are aware that the rest of the country is laughing at you? Well... even more so than usual.

You've elected a performing monkey. Well done 😆

have you tried it? I used to have that impression

Spent loads of time down there. My sister lives in Kentish Town. Good for a weekend? Certainly. Live there? You must be ****ing joking!!!

At least with Boris you get a slightly amusing character.

As depressing as it is, i think thats why he's won. Its like voting in the class clown at school. Yes, he's quite amusing, but FFS he's useless!

It helped a lot that the Evening Standard & The Metro (the Daily Mail's London papers) heavily favour Boris too.

kens tax shenanigans and steve davis personality aside hes still the better mayor

boris has been and will continue to be a disaster

probably even more so in his 2nd term as he focuses ever more on callmedave floundering in the job he really wants

and yes london has its faults but i cant bring my self to move away, its just too much fun, at least londoners care enough about the place they live to engage in the mayoral elections!

Yes, he's quite amusing, but FFS he's useless!

Maybe, but I don't live in the village of london so I'd rather see Boris fumbling around in the news than the bad Phil Collins lookalike that is Boring Ken ...

at least londoners care enough about the place they live to engage in the mayoral elections!

GREAT POINT!

+ 7,500,000 (population of London. All figures are ish & in no way reflect voter apathy or turnout)

Its been a useful exercise for the rest of the country (thats the bit outside the M25). Note how everyone else has voted NO THANKS to elected mayors.

Its also highly amusing that there is a movement within the Tory party that thinks that the performing baboon shtick has worked in London, its bound to go down a storm everywhere

Could there ever be a starker illustration of how far removed from reality these people are?

at least londoners care enough about the place they live to engage in the mayoral elections!

Which is strange considering how many other major uk cities have voted against having an elected mayor ...

I think they're a good idea myself.

I think it's a pity the other cities haven't voted for having mayors, it's one way to inject a bit of variety of opinion and regionality into the major political parties: a successful mayor would stand a great chance of leading his or her party in the future, and wouldn't simply be another Westminster party HQ apparatchik.

Spent loads of time down there. My sister lives in Kentish Town. Good for a weekend? Certainly. Live there? You must be ****ing joking!!!

Binners Kentish Town is a notorious cr4phole and good for one thing only - heroin. Next time you are down come up the hill to the N.London leafy paradise that is Crouch End, N8. I never want to live anywhere else.

[img] [/img]

easy McBoo, that's where I live. It's quite nice I'll have you know.

My favourite Gym/sauna was in Kentish town. No binners it was a council gym not a man on man wrestling place.

I was never a fan of Kentish town as a place though. Just dirty suburbia.

Each to their own innit? Whatever makes you happy. 😀

I can see that clock tower from my house.

I was living in London (Lambeth) when Ken was head of the GLC. Presumably many others still living in London have less than fond memories of certain aspects of his 'rule'.

If I still lived there, I'd rather have a Tory buffoon over a pseudo-intellectual, duplicious muppet any day of the week.

brakes - Member
Ken or Boris? What a choice? Would you like you're huge shit sandwith on brown or white bread sir
which is why I voted for neither.

So how's that working out for you? No vote = no choice

I still voted.

This

Lot of it comes down to serious dislike of Ken.

and the fact he never came across as genuine in his whining nasal type way, I couldn't put money one what it was he was going to improve. when I saw the summary leale that came through he door, I wondered where kens policies were. He tried too hard to discredit an not hard enough to prove himsel to be excellent at the job IMO.

As for Boris, at least we've seen some thing actually happen - new buses, freeze in council tax and a few others, and he comes across accidentally geniune even if thats a bumbling kind of way.

Not voting is basically voting the BNP in, which would be pretty stupid of anyone who took that route.

For some reason I always get him mixed up with George Galloway, I think they are probably equally slimy.

Which one was on Big Brother ?

[url= http://www.notkenagain.com/ ]Not Ken Again[/url]

easy McBoo, that's where I live. It's quite nice I'll have you know.

Yes cheap shot, apols. Kentish Town isn't a bad place at all.....bit better for a night out than Crouchy for sure. And you've got the Forum.

I find Ken intensely dislikable, especially since deciding to run for Mayor again - his desperation to get back in to the job really shows. He seemingly says what he thinks will get him votes, regardless of any basis in fact, and his claims to understand issues like cycling are just laughable.

The telegraph have [url= http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/andrewgilligan/100154544/ken-livingstone-four-new-lies-every-week-throughout-the-campaign/ ]done[/url] a [url= http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/andrewgilligan/100155047/ken-livingstone-34-separate-lies-on-transport/ ]three[/url] part [url= http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/andrewgilligan/100155430/ken-livingstone-has-told-85-different-lies-during-this-campaign/ ]summary[/url] of the lies told just during this campaign. Interesting reading.

(fellow Crouch End resident, I rather like it)

simong most of that telegraph article is very selective in supplying sources and facts, though i expect nothing less from borris workmates! and andrew gilligan is hardly a trustworthy source himself
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/davehillblog/2008/nov/03/gilligan

So who voted Labour then? According to the Guardian Ed Miliband is on his way to Downing Street.

I'm not saying that it's a fair and unbiased analysis of lies told by all candidates in this campaign, just that Ken has told a crapload of them. He seems to like pulling claims out of thin air to suit his purposes, and doesn't expect to be pulled up on them.

[b]Politician in Not Being Entirely Honest Shocka!!![/b]

HoratioHufnagel - Member
...
It helped a lot that the Evening Standard & The Metro (the Daily Mail's [b][u]FREE[/u][/b] London papers) heavily favour Boris too.

That's the key to the London elections.
Tight wad Londoners just lap up all the free "news". 90% of every tube carriage have their heads stuck in this sh1te rather than talk to each other.
Goes straight to the sub-concious before they're even awake in the morning. Then everyone hates Red Ken, but none of them are really sure why.

when they going to announce who is going to be mayor, thousands uinemployed and they cant evn get enoyugh peeps to count x marks on bits of paper.

his vanity project multimillion pound buses

Hmm. I could swear that Ken did exactly the same. Decided that for some reason what we needed was those God awful bendy buses and despite the fact Londoners overwhelmingly preferred at the most an upgraded Routemaster, went ahead with it.

I love old routemaster buses both for their absolute convenience for getting around central London or the hilarity that ensues from their total lack of health and safety compliance. I've seen plenty of people leap for the platform, miss and then have to hang on until the bus stops, being dragged down the road to avoid letting go and going under the vehicle behind.

I've seen plenty of people leap for the platform, miss and then have to hang on until the bus stops, being dragged down the road to avoid letting go and going under the vehicle behind.

survival of the fittest - keep it coming...

You do seem to be obsessed with different types of buses down there. I suppose when the streets are paved with diamond encrusted Damion Hurst skulls, there's nowt more important to worry about

Decided that for some reason what we needed was those God awful bendy buses and despite the fact Londoners overwhelmingly preferred at the most an upgraded Routemaster, went ahead with it.

"Only a moron would axe the Routemaster"

Decided that for some reason what we needed was those God awful bendy buses and despite the fact Londoners overwhelmingly preferred at the most an upgraded Routemaster, went ahead with it.

I think the people who actually used the busses on a regular basis much preferred the bendy ones. They were a lot more comfortable, easier to use and carried more people. The people who disliked them were the usual suspects (motorists, taxi drivers etc).

There were a bit of a pain cycling, but i'm not sure they were actually any more dangerous.

The best thing Ken did was the congestion charge, which surely must have helped cycling too. All cities need it.

Ther routemaster , was out of production for so long and was basicly a london product, made by AEC, in a factory now long gone.Only Newcastle bought them when new.

The new Borismaster is made in ireland the northern bit, and has a hybrid diesel and electric drive,along with aconductor, who doesnt check tickets or sell them, but chats to the driver.

As for the merc bendi buses we now have them in Liverpool and theyre great, loads of customers and flat floor for wheelchairs and prams

The people who disliked them were the usual suspects (motorists, taxi drivers etc).

AND cyclists.
AND people who paid to use them; about 50% of the people who used them just got on and didn't bother tapping in with their Oyster card. they were a big hit with fare dodgers.

for ease of use the bendy buses were great, and really good at moving large amounts of people quickly, really useful on the very busy routes

but also very easy for fare dodgers!

as a cyclist they were worse than a regular bus to overtake

its closer than a lot of people expected

http://www.londonelects.org.uk/im-voter/results-and-past-elections/live-results-2012?contest=23

BBC reckon Ken Ltd could still natch it 😯

thankfully whoever get to be mayor will have ABSOLUTELY no effect or possible intrest for the rest of the UKPLC.

You mean apart from the massive economic input of London to UKPLC?

Anyway, looks like it's going to second preferences. Could be interesting to see.

project - Member
thankfully whoever get to be mayor will have ABSOLUTELY no effect or possible intrest for the rest of the UKPLC.

IF (and i think its unlikely) borris were booted out hed be sniffing rond the PMs job sooner rather than later, that could make a big difference to the country

frak me they are making borris sweat!

9.52pm: My colleague Dave Hill says he's heard that they have found two more ballot boxes from Brent & Harrow to count.

[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2012/may/04/boris-ken-london-mayor-election-result ]http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2012/may/04/boris-ken-london-mayor-election-result[/url]

Christ, I really hope it's not that whining turd Ken. Give me Boris any day.

bendy buses carry more fare paying passengers that a routemaster does. they have proper disabled access unlike the routemasters and don't cost a gazillion pounds. If it was primarily about UK jobs we could just carry on building and buying UK made double deckers

they are a nightmare to overtake though because cars pin you but other than that I don't see what the problem is