[Closed] Just received a notice of debt recovery

If it's more than 6yrs ago tell them to get ****ed

Does the supreme court issue judgements on parking fines? Serious question, but it sounds odd.

Statute of limitation for simple contracts is 6 years...

Court judgement from 2015 wouldn't have reached that, though. If it's an actual judgement against you, then I guess OP has to take it slightly more seriously.

The last time I piped up on a parking thread I got mobbed, but still...

Who is the parking co?

I would chuck it in the bin. Or for a bit of sport send it back and say 'not known at this address'

If memory serves, any debt co can't take you to court for the debt, the original parking shysters must.

Aren’t Scottish hospitals free to park?

What is the date on the letter received by Lex?

I would be contacting the company asking why this has taken so long to be raised (if you think this is genuine).

Could it be a money making idea by the hospital - review old parking records and "monetise" them?

Aren’t Scottish hospitals free to park?

Except at Glasgow Royal Infirmary, Edinburgh RI and Ninewells. Another PFI success story.

@tomhoward This Scottish Hospital was free parking and the carparks were littered with the little plastic envelopes that had been stuck on hundreds of windscreens. RAH Paisley for ref.

I think it looks like the company has gone through its records and thrown out a load of 'chancer' letters to get a few quid in from folks who wont check up and just pay just as @cletus said.

@boomerlives The company is dcbl from Runcorn in Cheshire.

@martinhutch On reading it again the 'supreme court judgement' is a classic bit of Matt Hancockism. 'The supreme court ruled in 2015 that it is lawful for a parking operator to pursue payment of fines through a county court, this means (no it doesn't) you cannot at this stage appeal the fine'.

The language is great and proves its almost a begging letter, 'Your next opportunity to dispute the charge would be if the matter was taken to court'

Sorry bin this ones for you....

it's amazing the things you can get done during lockdown. I hope they didn't have furloughed staff going through the records...

When in 2014? Tread carefully here.

After six years a debt becomes statute barred, making it unlawful for them to pursue it. HOWEVER if you admit liability to the debt you reset the clock for another six years. For this reason never, ever talk to anyone over the phone about this, it's far too easy to slip and incriminate yourself.

Right let's tidy up a few issues here.

1. Lex usually pay the fine regardless and then bill the person who leased the vehicle plus an admin fee. It's most likely Lex trying to get reimbursed and will have nothing to do with parking co. It's a pain that Lex does this because it takes away your right to appeal (I think most leasing companies do it this way). I'd tell Lex to jog on.

2. Don't ignore it, boomerlives, no wonder you got mobbed that is rubbish advice, Scotland is probably different but definitely in England and Wales a PCN from parking on private land is enforceable. It's covered by contract law which is what Beavis vs Parking Eye sorted out. It doesn't make financial sense for the parking co to take it court, it costs more than they recover but they will do it, especially if you're an arse. They have to or there is no deterant to not paying

3. 'original parking shysters' who do you mean the land owner, hospital, supermarket, they decide to charge, they set the parking restrictions, they determine who can and can't park on their land and why shouldn't they. The parking enforcement companies just provide the service, in many cases the land owner takes a share of the revenue, in other cases they pay the parking enforcer a flat fee and keep all the fines themselves. The whole thing is highly regulated and is about to be tightened up further. Any company caught issuing PCNs without good reason can have their access to the DVLA revoked by the DVLA and that's the end of them. DVLA is pretty hot on this.

I think it looks like the company has gone through its records and thrown out a load of ‘chancer’ letters to get a few quid in from folks who wont check up and just pay just as @cletus said.

Lockdown silver linings no. #34 - Parking company shits fallen on hard times due to lack of motorised traffic 🙂

As above, make sure Lex is not going to pay the thing, though.

according to the photocopied letter that Lex Autolease have sent me

Out of interest, who's that letter addressed to and what's the date? Who is claiming to have written to whom and when? A debt company is chasing Lex, Lex have forwarded this on to you saying... what?

Because as stumpyjon says,

Lex usually pay the fine regardless and then bill the person who leased the vehicle plus an admin fee.

... they did exactly this to me years ago. I guess they're the registered keeper and therefore legally liable, then you're contractually obliged to reimburse any charges under your lease agreement? So a failure to pay, assuming there was anything to pay in the first place, is on Lex is it not?

I guess they’re the registered keeper and therefore legally liable

Scotland has only just passed legislation to allow keeper liability. Why not go back through your files, find a load of Scottish cases with lease companies named as the keeper, punt a letter to the lease firm, wait to see if a load of them just get paid automatically without anyone even looking at the date or bothering to contest?

To answer a few questions:

The letter was issued to Lex in Birmingham on 9th July 2020 in relation to an alleged contravention of parking 28 May 2014.

Lex have simply photocopied the letter addressed to them and sent it to me. DCBL are the agent recovering the 'unpaid parking charge' and have written to Lex.

Nobody has written my name on the letter that DCBL issued and its not on anything other than the envelope that it came in.

Lex have not written to me saying I have to pay anything.

DCBL don't know me from Adam, unless Lex have given them that info, but I've not been contacted directly by DCBL.

Again, just to be clear this was in a Scottish Hospital where parking was (and currently is) free, I've worked there since that date and not had any issue with parking notices and at the time of this alleged 'parking contravention' did not receive anything from Lex or anybody else.

If the only thing with your name on it is the envelope...

What are you being asked to pay by whom?

Indeed. MOD's delete thread. Runs away.

The letter was issued to Lex in Birmingham on 9th July 2020 in relation to an alleged contravention of parking 28 May 2014.

Then unless it's different in Scotlandshire it's Statute Barred and pursuing the debt is illegal. Pursuing a debt without proof that such a debt exists is also illegal and refusing to drop it when challenged classed as harassment.

I might be tempted to contact Lex just to remind them of that (and inform them that it was and is a free car park) and that should they pay the fine you will not be reimbursing them.

Just because it is a free car park doesn't mean you can't get a PCN. However agree with above, it's Lex's problem. They need to pay if anyone does and then attempt to invoice you afterwards. Whatever you do don't pay the debt people unless they contact you directly and they can problably jog on as per Cougars post.

I think parking charge notices have to be issued within a set time, 6 years is way outside. If it was issued to Lex and they ignored it that's Lex's problem. My guess is the debt recovery firm is chasing up old debts to make money, Lex are having a punt sending it your way.

If the car park never had any charges, could it be a scam based on some stolen database of employee cars from the hospital cross referenced with old DVLA data?

If Lex have passed on a letter from the parking company, ignore it.
If Lex have paid and want the money back talk to them and at least tell them you won't pay.
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Important bit of rules for Scotland. It is the driver who is responsible. The supreme court judgement someone metioned above refers to England and Wales and allows the company to pursue the registered keeper when they can't/won't divulge the name of the driver, this is the bit which does not apply in Scotland, there is no obligation to disclose who was driving and they cannot pursue the keeper instead. They will have to prove the identity of the driver by other means.
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i have no idea what happens if an English driver gets a penalty in Scotland or vice versa.

@stumpyjon I think your last point is valid as suggested by @cougar. It's shocking to think that some folks will get this and just panic and pay up, half tempted to report it, if it's illegal it shows that some companies will risk anything to make a few quid.

Looks like a 5 year limit for chasing a debt in Scotland.

https://www.scotlanddebt.co.uk/articles/personal-debt/statute-barred-debt-in-scotland

Thought the RAH car park was limited to four hours for visitors after that you could be penalised.

Just because it is a free car park doesn’t mean you can’t get a PCN.

That's a point. A lot of places are free "up to 2 hours" or similar, common in supermarkets.

It’s shocking to think that some folks will get this and just panic and pay up

I think that's what they bank on. When my then-partner got one a few years ago for a credit card she'd never had she was like "lets just pay it, I don't want the hassle." I was of the inclination, "not while I've got a hole in my arse."

Plus as I said earlier, I don't know about Scottish law but here if you admit to the debt it cancels out the Statute Barred status and resets the clock.

How long is the statute for debt in England?

Was there a covering letter from LEX? If not, what are they expecting you to do?

Bin and ignore - I know there are those who would say this is the worst thing to do but I’ve had this a couple of times in the last 15 years. The letters got increasingly strident and then funnily enough, they stopped. If you engage, you’re doomed as they’ll just keep harassing you until you pay...

Timbog160, fine in this case but you are running the risk of ending up in court if its a legit PCN issued correctly. Question is do you feel lucky cos if you do end up in court it can be costly, way beyond the cost of paying promptly.

The law was clarified 5 years ago so what you may gave got away with before then is not relevant.

Sounds like some random company phishing to me... put it in the circular file.

running the risk of ending up in court if its a legit PCN

If it's not been to court after 6 years already, then I'd suggest they are chancers looking for a nibble on some bait.

Which Matty, in this case what I said, tell Lex to jog on.

The advice from others to ignore PCNs in general is outdated and could be very costly.

@stumpyjon yes having reread the OP’s post this is a fair point. To be fair the purported PCNs I received were from a private parking company with a well known history of trying it on, and harassing victims. If, for example, I received what was clearly a legit PCN then I’d probably simply pay it unless there was a valid reason to contest...

6 years, yeah, right...

Just lifted from the resolver (links to money saving expert) website:

You should expect a private parking firm to fix a notice to your car before you leave the car park and then post you a follow-up within about 2 months.

If the parking firm has to get your details from the DVLA to send you a ticket by post alone, they have to send it within 14 days.

Timbog160, which company as a matter of interest?

Muddyarseguy, it's not the parking company pursuing the PCN against the OP, it's a debt collection agency pursuing Lex autolease so we're not talking about the issuing of a PCN.

The assumption is a PCN was issued to Lex 6 years ago as they were the registered keeper, they ignored it (which is unusual as they normally pay and charge the hirer). The PCN was then passed to said debt collection agency who are now scrapping the barrel for revenue and have taken a punt at sending out letters for all outstanding debt hoping a few will pay up.

Either way the OP is in the clear, if Lex didn't pay the ticket at the time it looks like their debt has expired, if they did then the debt of the OP to Lex has also expired.

@stumpyjon I can’t for the life of me remember but a quick google showed they were well known for it, and using increasingly strident tactics. I remember receiving court documents, which it turned out they had simply knocked up on word and never went anywhere. I can’t actually remember why I received the original PCN but it was something ridiculous like not parked in a space properly (on a patch of unlined wasteland) or similar. I had maybe half a dozen letters over a few months then they gave up. Prob over 5 years ago though so as you say things may be different now.

I also got nobbled a few years ago by a very complex new bus lane system in Bradford with cameras - I suspect I could have fought that one based on poor signage etc but as I had driven (briefly) the wrong way and it was from an LA I figured it was just easier to pay.

Ok, the latter one is totally different, interesting to know more about the others. There's a huge amount of bull poop floating about the internet about how the private companies work. Back in the early days of clamping it was the wild west, clamping got outlawed and Beavis vs ParkingEye set out some ground rules which were long overdue including what constituted a reasonable charge (needs to be enough to cover costs, make a reasonable profit and act as a deterant). People moan about the discount but it's actual quite fair, pay up quickly if you broke the rules and it costs the parking co less to process, be an idiot about it and their costs go up which you then pay.

Maybe some of the smaller operators are still a bit sharp practice but the bigger ones have got their act together and are well aware they need to act as lawfully as they can, the media love jumping on cases of little old ladies nurses getting fined. The internal processes are well regulated, automated and quality controlled. Believe it or not they tend err on the side of caution and don't issue a PEN if it's dodgy, there's no point, it'll cost them in admin for no ultimate payback, plus the DVLA doesn't like complaints from motorists about them inappropriately giving out driver details (which an invalid PCN would count as), they can stop providing the parking so with details, if that happens the parking co is dead.

Don’t ignore it, boomerlives, no wonder you got mobbed that is rubbish advice

Worked for me.

Twice.

Went to court once.

Won.

Pay if you want. But you only encourage these scumbags.