[Closed] just been properly screwed over - employment content

erm.... I hate to say this, but I'd get your desk cleared now. Save you doing it at half three with a security guard stood behind you

Was going to chip in but it's all been said up there ^^^^ . Will tune back in after 3 to see what the 'feedback' was ... good luck methinks. 😯

If you don't jump, you'll be pushed.

That would surely constitute unfair dismissal would it not? Looking for another job isn't a sackable offence, I'd have been sacked loads of times if it were.

pretty sure they won't sack me. for starters they have no grounds to do so, and why the hell would they stop me being recruited if they're just going to can me.

I suspect the 'news' will be that they will pay my relocation, but they have consistently said that I won't know what I'm getting for my promotion until everyone's pay reviews are announced at the end of the month.

I know I should have given up on them earlier, but everything else about the company (except pay) has been good. I enjoy the work, like the people (those around me, not management), have a relaxed work atmosphere (t-shirt and jeans) and can work flexible hours (I work early to early, so I'm home by 5pm).

In answer to some comments before, yes I was going for the job offer as a bargaining point, rather than specifically wanting the job. This is established in the company as a way to get them to take your pay requests seriously. It was only once they started threatening me and behaving so poorly that I decided I wanted to get shot of them.

Dave

[i]why the hell would they stop me being recruited if they're just going to can me.[/i]

because they don't want a competitor to gain a commercial advantage but don't trust you anymore?

pretty sure they won't sack me. for starters they have no grounds to do so

Thats extremely [s]naive[/s] trusting of you

15 minute count down!

In answer to some comments before, yes I was going for the job offer as a bargaining point, rather than specifically wanting the job. This is established in the company as a way to get them to take your pay requests seriously. It was only once they started threatening me and behaving so poorly that I decided I wanted to get shot of them.

If it's an 'established method of getting the company to take your pay requests seriously' then how have previous applicants got around the cartel issue?

I'm on tenderhooks.

This will be good.

I'm on [s]tenderhooks[/s].

tenterhooks

FTFY 😉

15 minute count down!

This will be good.

Or it'll be a tragedy for a fellow forum member.

Good luck with the outcome alfa. Sorry to hear about this travesty.

I really really hope we're all wrong 🙁

here is a good article on [url= http://www.ere.net/2011/05/24/why-you-and-your-candidates-should-never-accept-a-counteroffer/ ]why you should never accept or court a counter offer[/url]

alfabus, be careful you’ve probably got colleagues on here. If you work for a big company you can always go for the option of creating a nuisance of yourself to the point where they ask you to leave and give you a nice big wedge to walk quietly (compromise agreement).

Anything....? I'm distracted now and need to know... 😐

*optimist head*

Hope he gets his pay rise...

or at least remembered to lube up before the meeting...

Regarding the breach of contract thing - my mrs got some legal advice when her employer wanted to change her contract. The advice was that if a notice period is such that no competitor would ever offer you a job, then that would not be enforceable because it's an unreasonable restraint of trade. But you'd have to prove it!

the two companies work for the same customer and have an anti-poaching agreement

I'm not gloating and I hope he gets a good outcome, when I said good I meant distracting. I'm not such a bastard as to wish the guy the worst. And I've learned something too this is a thread that just keeps giving.

the two companies work for the same customer and have an anti-poaching agreement

I suspect that's precisely what they [b]don't[/b] have. You'd have to be pretty brave to enter into an agreement that would likely be voided on public policy grounds.

I can't see [thankfully] a good reason to sack him

Anyway, there's usually a few procedures to follow before they get to that stage

Well he is still in the meeting so that is good news......could have stormed or been kicked out mind 🙁

This will be one muppet manager not a company conspiracy. Many big IT companies do this, rely on staff inertia and don’t keep peoples pay in line with the market. Many people move around every 2-5 years in order to keep salary at the market level, some leave and come back again. I don’t know many people who have had a pay rise in the last 4 years without moving.
I’ve seen staff get poached by the client whom we have an anti-poaching agreement with and the company just lets them go. Not seen anything like this happen with a competitor though.

In my experience the counter offer always comes after the letter of resignation.

Lessoned learnt for future hopefully. Sign new contract, hand in resignation, then consider any counter or counter-counter offers.

Fingers crossed for alpha...

I'm back.

Not much to report I'm afraid - he basically gave me a sneak peak at what is in store for me in the pay review at the end of the month - it amounts to a 13% pay rise.

Not sure if I mentioned this before, but last month a friend of mine joined the company at the 'career level' below me (effectively joining as what I was prior to my promotion). He is paid 33% more than me. For them to suggest that a 13% pay rise is sufficient to get me to market rate is laughable.

Oh, and they said they'll try and push through the relocation expenses... woop de ****ing doo.

I have just started uploading my CV to loads of recruitment sites.

Dave

Phew! You need to get the **** out of Dodge fella. But you know this already

Have you pointed out your salary is way off market rate?

Have you actually gone to your manager with a strong case as to why you deserve a pay rise?

Seems odd that new vacancies (which I assume you had the right to apply for) can be advertised at such a higher rate.

Well you should still call the firm that withdrew the offer and have a chat with.

My advice is don't put your CV on line find a couple of agencies that specialise in what you do and work with them.

Been involved in IT management for a huge company for a while and this is absolutely typical. It's all about what you can negotiate when you first come through the door, as after that your potential for increases is, in my experience, extremely low. These mahoosive (and mostly American) companies are masters at minimising cost increases by imposing processes to specifically prevent managers from being able to award pay rises over & above stipulated (and typically crappy) amounts, usually dictated by a salary grade/performance calculation. I managed quite a few people a while back and there was very little correlation between job responsibility and level of pay. Sadly I have found that there are only ever two choices...lump it or move to another company.

Well, might be time for a truth pill - try and get some honest feedback on why what you think you are worth is so much more than what they think you are worth ??

Of course, the purity of the job market will tell you that.

Good luck !

chin up mate

the good news is that you have the credentials to go out and get a job with a better package than you are on now.

Keep your head down and get on jobserve then move when you get the next offer.

last month a friend of mine joined the company at the 'career level' below me (effectively joining as what I was prior to my promotion). He is paid 33% more than me.

Good luck with the job hunt. FWIW a cousin of mine was in an almost identical situation to yourself 4 years ago and after a pitiful wage rise offer he told them to stuff it, took two weeks holiday and never went back. He is now earning nearly 4x the salary he was on. Ok he has had a couple of 'right place, right time' strokes of luck but it shows what can be achieved.

Similar last year. I enjoyed the work and the company, but the money was not where it should have been. At my appraisal I made it clear I needed the rise and that I felt underappreciated despite jumping through all the required hoops and doing my job and more. This was agree'd with "but our hands are tied by HR"... which is BS.

So... I walked out of the appraisal and fired the CV out... I made the decision to go, not in a hurry but to find the right thing. Two months later I handed in my notice and was asked "why are you leaving"... big company so the exit process was rather amusing! I know not to burn bridges thought but still I enjoyed the discomfort in the room.

Contracting for twice the money now and half the BS... life is great.

I've since heard that the chap who took over from me is a contractor earning what I am now... and that there has a been a shuffle amongst the managers who lost a lot of staff over a short period... *chuckle*

Look around - find the right thing and dive in... do the same in 3-5 years time.

wot pedalhead said. So true.

The bunch that recently took us over seem proud of the fact that the average employee age is 25 [that must have been before we joined 🙂 ]

They just take graduates and pay them well, when they start looking for more money, they seem to realise it's a non-starter and move on - making way for the next graduate

I've only ever had pay rises by leaving. I was walking out the door of one job when the boss offered me a decent rise. I took it. After a month the employer whom I had rejected called me and asked if there was anything they could do to get me to change my mind. I went with the new employer on even more money.

When I arrived at new employer I met someone else who had been employed the month before (IE when I should have started) , doing the same job as me, who accepted 40% less than I had been offered...

Well you should still call the firm that withdrew the offer and have a chat with.

Do this. Quickly.

OOh page three, Ok good to hear that the news isn't as feared (by STW at least) ... but dear god yes, get on and get out, it's the only way ... [now if only I could listen to my own advice ... 😉 ]

toys19 - Member
I've only ever had pay rises by leaving

So you're not very good at your job but you can talk a good interview? 🙂

So you're not very good at your job but you can talk a good interview?

Or he's a marxist, attacking the system from within.... 😉

another update:

Had a few more chats with my former project manager and with a couple of others I trust. They reckon that the job at Y is gone and I should forget about it (a couple of them had been advising senior management to let me go, but they seem to be interested in 'the principle', rather than my individual case), play nice and look for a new job.

With that in mind, I uploaded my CV to a job board for my particular sector. Have already had 2 calls from recruiters - one of which was recruiting for the job I was offered, the other has some interesting stuff which I *should* be 'allowed' to take.

What a ridiculous situation. Nice to feel in demand, but bloody frustrating that they won't stump up the cash.... I have heard so many people today tell me simultaneously that I am brilliant and that I'm not worth paying for.

Thanks for all the supportive messages (and the not so supportive, but funny ones).

Dave

You live to fight another day.

Just don't show your hand so quickly next time..!

Time for a stealth pay rise.
Less hours - Same money = higher hourly rate .
Leaves more time for mountain biking .
Hope it all works out Ok in the end.
Your managers do sound like 'tards however .

clubber - Member

toys19 - Member
I've only ever had pay rises by leaving

So you're not very good at your job but you can talk a good interview?

Sounds like an accurate description of me..

I mean if you don't threaten to leave (as in make it look like you really are leaving) then most HR bods won't even thing of a pay rise, esp the 55% the OP wants, why should they, you are not leaving, they are not losing anything. That is my experience at least.