[Closed] Jury Service advice

I can only comment from a genuine point of view from one of our regular subbies who was there last month.

We wrote him a letter stating he was on 160/day no matter what. He had three weeks off, he never actually got on a proper case,  he claimed back about 400 quid. He was sent home most days and they expect you just to be able to go back to work at the drop of a hat. It's pretty shit! You can only defer once I believe as he did the first time!

I've just had my summons too.

In short you can't claim back more than the allowance. Although the allowance does go up substantially after the two weeks.

Most employers apparently will carry on paying a salary, in which case you can't claim the allowance (but your employer can). Has she asked her boss?

If she's self employed then I think the options are either:

A) Take it on the chin as one of those things you have to budget for if your self employed, its £65 better than being sick for example.

B) Plead financial hardship and try and get an exemption (read this somewhere but not in the official website so it may be a bit of a longshot, probably best to focus on the impact on other people than herself).

C) Ignore it and risk the £1000 fine, your still £2000 better off.

Why not just look on gov.uk?

https://www.gov.uk/jury-service

Lose £3k???

So that means she earns £365 a day after tax? So that’s £95k a year AFTER tax?

If that’s the case £3k should be pocket change.

There’s too many people who earn a fair bit of cash finding ways to duck out of jury duty. Everyone needs to be represented in our justice system, not just the poor and low paid. Just go and do it, take it very seriously - it’s a privilege and it’s something you’ll never forget.

That sentiment is all well and good. My boy got well and truly stiffed by the brilliant "privilidge"! A lot of people can't afford to lose that money. It' a shit system and needs a shake up. When you look at how much the ****ing barristers earn for 10 mins representation on a day adjournment it's a kick in the stones for Joe blow jury member.

If the case goes on for 2 weeks (which it says it could) this will cost her about £3000 in lost earnings.

Obviously we cant afford to lose that sort of money.

definitely dont do your civic duty,you earn more than most so why should you?

Praying for your loss Hope you a pull through

PS If you dont get out of it  and you need some food or elecy money   start a thread and we will  all help out.

I can see the problem for someone on a "normal" wage. But like robdob says, its hard to find too much sympathy when she's earning £160k (assuming she's an employee not a ltd co paying herself via dividends).

On that note, does anyone know if the £65 is taxable income?

3k over 2 weeks. That in my book is 1500/week. Which is 78k a year. Oh and what difference does it make what you earn. Clearly worked hard at school, got a good job etc etc why the **** is her loss of earnings any different. Live to your means etc etc

I agree (mostly because in a good period a £400/day rate would be a very nice target to aim for in my old line of work, not that I ever saw anywhere near that).

However even on 1/4 of that I had a lot more disposable income and savings than I do now on nearer an 1/8th!

I'm as pissed off as anyone would be that the allowance isn't closer to an average wage rather than minimum wage (especially as you only claim lost earnings so no everyone could claim it all anyway). But losing 2 weeks wages if your earning £30k is going to hurt a hell of a lot more than if you're earning £130k!

Oh and what difference does it make what you earn.

Because here we have a person on a six figure salary claiming poverty.

Who are you going to claim the loss of earnings from? I htink your employer will still pay you or top up the allowance

Hmmm Ok - some helpful comments.

Regardless of what she earns we still have a mortgage, school fees, car etc etc and all of the other normal monthly payments so losing that amount of money will have a big impact.
Like most people we live within our means (and sometimes right up to the edge of them)

She was looking forward to doing her civic duty but as she is self employed, if she doesn’t work she doesn’t get paid so this will mean a complete loss of earnings.

To the usual comments

Newrob - believe me 3k is not pocket change.
junkyard - she also pays more than most in tax but its nice that you’re so concerned
Ransos - i don’t recall claiming poverty - but screw you

Five options realistically, although a bit late for one.

1. Ignore the letter. It's not recorded delivery. You will go to hell and Karma will get you etc.

2. Do jury duty

3. Write a letter claiming you'd be on the poverty line and see what they say.

4. Defer it, save some cash and do it when you're called up again

5. Take out insurance to cover the loss of earnings. Bit late for that mind.

<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">Your choice.</span>

Interesting moral problem.

I can see all the points but probably fall just on the "it's your duty, should have got insurance" side, there's just no need to find ways to live to £1.5k per week, and you should be able to find ways of saving it.

Freely admit to bias due to working with folk in poverty.

Have you checked to see if your home insurance covers loss of earnings through jury service?

It appears that jury service compensation is taxable for self employed people so those assuming the £3K lossing in earnings was after tax are wide of the mark.

Intereting one. I know the allowance goes up significantly after 2 weeks but the £65 a day for the first two weeks is well short of national average income. Would seem to be the least they should do really.

I am always surprised to hear about those on significantly more than normal income levels 'living to their means'. Does seem short sighted and very 'jam today'. Everyone should ideally be living to a standard relative to their income with something in reserve but sadly those at the bottom end of the income range just can't. But if you could and you elect not to....well...it's hard to be too sympathetic.

Live within your means is my advice. I’m always astonished by the research showing how many people don’t have even a few hundred quid spare. Of course for people on or close to the poverty line it’s often not possible and I understand that, but...kids in private school and 6 figure salaries..,.bafflement.

If if you choose to spend every pound you earn, well of course you’ll get caught out occasionally.

I'm doing it at the moment. During the induction talk the staff asked if people we're going to significantly lose out and if they were to have a private word. I get the impression some were allowed to go after a week. I guess this is down to discretion and will vary on the sympathy of the staff and location.

I started last week and was told not to turn up on Monday as no cases were starting. Arrived Tuesday, but didn't get a case until Thursday afternoon. My employer is paying my wages anyway, but it has been so frustrating just sitting round. The whole thing does seem very wasteful of people's time.

This whole 65 quid a day thing is bollox. You don't get it unless you've started a case and are actually in court. Well that's what happened to the lad who works for us. They just expect you to be able to turn up then f not required nip back to work.

Some people on here really seem to resent the ones who are doing well for themselves. Why not enjoy life and spend what you have a bit!

Go and do your service, in my opinion. It’s an important thing.

If it’s 3k after tax/deductions, you really should be able to stand the cost on that income. If it’s 3k gross then your actual reduced income is really rather a lot less.

If your choices up to now based on self employment  don’t support that then my advice is to make different choices in future and build up some contingency funding to cover this sort of down side to self employment.

i suspect this isn’t the advice you wanted, but you did ask on an open forum!

Go do it: it’s an important thing!

Why not enjoy life and spend what you have a bit!

You said it!

It would have been so easier not to mention the amount of lost income ah well.

A quick suggestion for the OP,

as your wife is self employed I am going to assume , and apologies if I am wrong, that she has some sort of income protection insurance to cover unexpected events which reduce the income.

As such I would suggest the first thing to do would be contact the insurer with a vague “ does my policy cover jury service ? “ type question.

if the answer is Yes , then bingo make a claim, alls well

but if it is no, then time to ask for a deferment on grounds of financial hardship, and get some sorted for when it comes round, it may never happen, and to help offset the cost speak to her accountant about getting the premium counted as a claimable cost against tax.

If she doesn’t have any type of income protection insurance then I would suggest it is time to give it serious thought and get some.

Ransos – i don’t recall claiming poverty – but screw you

You said you couldn't afford it. That is entirely your fault. Suck it up and stop whining about your non problem.

Is your wife's income steady? Are there ebbs and flows in her work? Is this a short term contract/job coming up?
When I was self employed I'd have weeks of high wages and weeks with no work... If so, go for a deferment and hope the next one lands in a quiet time?

I think there may also be an exemption for sole traders etc where it would cause you to miss deadlines, and consequently lose clients and further work?

Regardless of what she earns we still have a mortgage, school fees, car etc etc and all of the other normal monthly payments so losing that amount of money will have a big impact.

I'm calling excellent troll, well done sir.

It would have been so easier not to mention the amount of lost income ah well.

that would of only been #humble though 😉

£65 a day for the first two weeks is well short of national average income.

If you did 8 hours paid work each day, for national minimum wage then you would get £62 and change.

So Jury Service is basically a minimum wage job.

My sympathy would very much depend on the situation.

Full time employment . Your company should cover it. If not then I have a bit of sympathy.

Contractor who's work is very much only available on a contracting basis rather than permanent. Again it's not particularly fair.

Ltd Co contactor who has made a decision to contact rather than get a permanent job due to the benefits of sky high day rates and tax benefits ... Tough titties.. That's very much the chance you take.

the obnoxious haven’t invaded there yet.

Bit of an over reaction there and  I  dont see what is  obnoxious [ extremely unpleasant]about pointing out that the person is  relatively  wealthy and they should do their civic duty - which of these do you disagree with  to the extent that you find   those saying it "obnoxious"

I can see no reason for such a ludicrous and foolish claim and a mod being  abusive is a poor thing to see

The answer could have been given without questioning what the guy spends his cash on, you seem lost now that you can't report Jamba every day.

Of course you seem to think it was directed at you rather than in general.

 I dont see what is obnoxious [ extremely unpleasant]about pointing out that the person is relatively wealthy and they should do their civic duty – which of these do you disagree with to the extent that you find those saying it “obnoxious

But in reality you wrote..

Praying for your loss Hope you a pull through

PS If you dont get out of it and you need some food or elecy money start a thread and we will all help out.

£3000 in 2 weeks, assuming Mon - Fri is £300 per day.

If that's gross that is not a huge amount for a self employed person.

That's £1500 a week, allow for no holiday pay etc. You are looking at about a £70,000 gross income.

No employment rights, no sick pay, no pension. All the risk on the individual.

As a comparison, you would need to pay around 30% of that income into pensions, insurance etc. to get similar benefits to what a typical public sector package gives you.

So, about £45,000 to £50,000 a year when compared to a professionally qualified person in the public sector.. A decent wage but hardly "wealthy".

Also, if a "contractor" is on very short term contract's, isn't the rule of thumb, 3 times what you get as a salaried employee?

Am I the only person in the UK who wants to go on jury duty?

I fancy seeing how it all works.

I'm firmly in the suckitupprincess camp here. And stop bragging about what a shitoad of money you have.

Great, your wife earns over a hundred k a year. Have a bit of class FFS and keep that to yourself eh.

So many employed people just assume that the self employed work five days a week, fifty two weeks a year, work usually ebbs and flows as do day rates, profit and turnover often have very little in common, my profit usually runs to about fifty percent of my turnover, last year it was nearer thirty percent as I had to invest in lots of kit.

The OP's wife may just have a busy few weeks booked in, so many just assume stuff and throw meaningless figures around.

The OP’s wife may just have a busy few weeks booked in, so many just assume stuff and throw meaningless figures around.

This was my first thought. A lot of contractors will earn heavily over short periods rather than have a regular fixed income.

The advice about deferment then sorting your insurance would sort her out if that's the case.

As for all the pious griping about people having too much income, perhaps we should be consistent and lay into everyone who comes on here contemplating shelling out thousands for something to ride around in circles.

Nice bit of goading to boot at the end there junky 😉 you missed of the "princess" word which is a shame.

Surely the civic duty bit is serving on a jury, not having to give up a whole wodge of your income when doing so.

JY - U OK Hun?

There are some bitter mofos on here, this thread, McMoonters flat social commentary and a good few others.

I'd support banning the obnoxious, it makes for some pretty unpleasant reading.

As a comparison, you would need to pay around 30% of that income into pensions, insurance etc. to get similar benefits to what a typical public sector package gives you.

As a comparison, no one gives a ****. To the op live your life, take you chances and try to be a decent member of society and do the right thing the fact that your wife earns loads is great I expect so suck it up and get on with life.

When I was first called up I deferred it & planned for the inevitable loss.(just like paternity leave)

i told them a date when I was available from and that’s what I got .

i enjoyed it - old bailey, beautiful courts& attempted murrrrrrrder,what’s not to like?

Nothing to do with loss of earnings for me but i know theres an exemption if your working abroad but domiciled in the uk.....as in its not reasonably practical to expect you to fly home.

You do have to speak to someone on the phone and explain the situation to invoke it though,

i look forward to being called up again so i can perform my civic duty but ill be damned if i was flying back from australia for it. Flyings a waste of my time at the best of times.

I suspect now that they know im adhoc short notice contracted to countries abroad i probably wont get another shot.