getting rid of the monarchy will do **** all for the poor and vulnerable of this country.
Scilly island residents would disagree
I couldn't see where the "angry couple" were claiming that getting rid of the monarchy would help the poor and vulnerable of this country.
Are the poor and vulnerable in the UK really suffering because of the Queen?
I have heard plenty of mention of cuts in welfare spending, unemployment, austerity, poor employment protection, and a multitude of others reasons why poor and vulnerable people are suffering, but I can't recall ever hearing the Queen mentioned as a cause.
I can’t recall ever hearing the Queen mentioned as a cause.
Getting rid of the poster boys and girls of social injustice couldn't hurt though could it?
No street partys round my way AFAIK, Fair bit of bunting/flags though. The WMC down my street had a 'family fun day' type do on aswell as afew other busy events I spotted on my afternoon ride out.
Regardless of wether you're a Replubican or not (Not fussed either way mesen) Its great to see familys out enjoying the events and socialising, can't begrudge anyone of that.
Getting rid of the poster boys and girls of social injustice couldn’t hurt though could it?
It would upset Royalists, much like Royalty seems to up set you.
Social injustice? I reckon we should start by getting rid of the Bezos’s & Musks of this world. I’d ban billionaires before royalty of any country.
I must say Ernie I am surprised at you. I mean I have seen little englander attitudes in your posts before but I thought you really understood the politics of this sort of thing
The symbology of the royal family is important in our class ridden society
By joining in the jubilee celebrations you condone it - would you join celebrations for other aristocracy - especially ones with such unpleasant records. You say yo are a green. Their record on green issues is appalling
While the money is not huge in national terms its still wasted money ( And enough to give every healthcare worker a few hundred quid extra a year)- and how many of Londons homeless could be housed in Buck Place?
Or are you just poking the "wishy washy pale pink liberals" again? 😉
I must say Ernie I am surprised at you.
And I am surprised how profoundly you fail to understand me.
I despise gesture politics. I despise political correctness and all the other things which give middle-class pseudo-radicals their misplaced sense of intellectual and moral superiority.
I also despise racism, sexism, homophobia, and a political and economic system which denies power to ordinary working people.
I believe that the absurdity of the monarchy, a hangover from a long gone feudal past, has no place in an advanced democratic society.
I believe that an advanced democratic society is one in which political and economic power is in the hands of the people.
Anti-monarchy rhetoric is a nonsensical side issue which doesn't deal with real issues confronting real people. It is a distraction away from what should be real goals.
And btw I do not say that I am "a Green". I have said that I have voted Green. I am fully aware that the Green Party is just another middle-class protest party which is totally unconnected with ordinary voters.
However for very obvious reasons the Green Party does not at present attract self-serving career politicians, which for me makes them currently more attractive than either Labour or the LibDems, neither of which appear to be anything other than slightly watered down Tories, although Labour now seem to be challenging even that.
I understand more than you think and agree with everything you say there. What I don't get is supporting the jubilee "celebrations" I agree doing a "Vivian" from the young ones is pointless. But showing support for the monarchy?
I was there for three hours and not once did I hear any reference whatsoever to the queen.
Edit : btw I did not actively seek to attend, a ticket was bought for me and I did what I was told. I had no strong objections to going and I am rather glad that I did. I genuinely found the ethic interactions heartwarming. And I had an interesting conversation with a young lady from Peru.
I was there for three hours and not once did I hear any reference whatsoever to the queen.
Which is , for me the thing that boils my piss the most. So many sheeple just happy to be thrown a bone by their betters. It's sooo far past my understanding I can't get my head round it. I accept that there's far bigger fish to fry but if I can avoid drinking in the local conservative club I can avoid celebrating the jubilee too, it's a win win
So many sheeple just happy to be thrown a bone by their betters.
Who do you think organised the street party I attended? It was ordinary people organising something for themselves and their community. No one told them to do it.
And btw you might want to reconsider the use of the word "sheeple" in the future. I associate it with the language of far-right conspiracy theorists, which I suspect isn't exactly the image that you want to project.
So many sheeple
AKA people who have a different opinion to you.
AKA people who have a different opinion to you.
No people who go to Jubilee parties but think the monarchy "has no place in an advanced democratic society". I will happily accept the view that many think the Monarchy is great and want to have a party to show it. I just would not go.
you might want to reconsider the use of the word “sheeple” in the future. I associate it with the language of far-right conspiracy theorists
You are welcome to associated it with whatever you want
Can anyone tell me when the actual jubilee is? was it today? yesterday? tomorrow?
If it was today I spent a fair portion of it in Ikea, did not see any regalia but tbf I need some cheap grub for the kids and a way of getting them out of the sun for a few hours while they slept 🙂
Actually, the only place I have seen any bunting (South Wales) is in the window of 'Spoons, and the old couple next door who've printed out an A4 picture of the queen and stuck it to the inside of the window with a soft toy corgi either side.
Just back from the bash at our village hall. Sorry to report that I had a great time. I caught up with neighbours I'd not seen in ages and met some new ones. I ate too many sausage rolls and had a few beers. It's a farming community, so we found out how lambing had gone, heard woes about fertiliser and diesel prices and a bit of local gossip to the background noise of kids laughing on a bouncy castle.
The weather helped, but there was a really chilled vibe and people seemed happy to just be able to gather and chat after the shit couple of years everyone has had. As with ernie above, I didn't have or hear a single conversation involving the queen or royalty. I'm sure this all sounds very twee and unsophisticated to some, but it was really pleasant.
The village hall has a weekly pub night which we used to go to, but after the Covid restrictions we fell out of the habit. I feel really guilty about it as there is no village pub, it's run by volunteers and is teetering on the the brink of viability due to poor support. I am resolved to support it a bit more after seeing their efforts today. Me and Mrs Bloke were wondering whether to bother going beforehand, but are really glad we did. It shouldn't take something like the Jubilee to connect with your neighbours, but in lieu of any other reason it was welcome all the same.
bit of local gossip to the background noise of kids laughing on a bouncy castle.
Aren't kids noisy on bouncy castles? When we were having our quiz the little gits were laughing and screaming so much that we couldn't hear the questions. Someone actually shouted out "can we turn off the bouncy castle!". In the end we settled for the questions to be relayed down
Aren’t kids noisy on bouncy castles? When we were having our quiz the little gits were laughing and screaming so much that we couldn’t hear the questions. Someone actually shouted out “can we turn off the bouncy castle!”. In the end we settled for the questions to be relayed down
Bizarrely the bouncy castle was inside the village hall and we were sat outside, so the noise was just about bearable!
Invited to a BBQ (didn't go), some parties here and there. I'm not into this cap doffing fawning nonsense.....although time off work is always welcome!
Decided to mostly ride my bike. **** me that Steel City DH track is rapid, felt like I was pullin G in the berms!
I think it's a bit like having a piss up at Christmas whilst not being Christian. Many atheists do because for us the piss up is the important part.
It’s just a shame that the one person who can’t attend any of these events are the one who nominally they are for. Feels like they are marking an ending. In many ways.
BBC seems to be concentrating on the papers slamming Harry & his lovely wife. Apparently they rushed back to spend precious time with his mum, rather than party with journalists and celebrities. A “snub”. Our press are just down right horrid and self serving, aren’t they.
His mum's been dead 25 years, assume you mean Nan? Which allows me to post this.
TBH It all reminds me of that film the Golden Child 🙂
I don’t mind her(that’s the indoctrination from a child) but TBH she stands for everything you don’t want in the world 🙂
Undemocratic privilege of the institution.
Almost every house in the village has bunting, + the shop, school and pub. Bunting at the school was designed by the kids.
Street party (bring and share) on Thursday afternoon followed by free BBQ and beacon lighting, village walk on Friday, neighboring village party today (Saturday) and service of remembrance in the village church on Sunday.....
Village prizes for best house decoration & fancy dress on the Thursday
Some are pro royal, some are not but still engaged in the street party and beacon lighting and generally had a good time, will prob come to the second party on Saturday. a couple of house holds are on holiday.
No people who go to Jubilee parties but think the monarchy “has no place in an advanced democratic society”
I'm atheist but still celebrate Christmas. Similarly, I expect a lot of people enjoyed a party with their neighbours.
Just listening to some people on R4 today saying something to the effect that all the crowds at the Mall etc. cheering Charles and William show that public support of the monarchy is more than affection for the person of Elizabeth. It didn’t seem to occur to them that the same crowd is a self selecting and possibly not completely representative sample of the population. Certainly if the small get together that our six neighbours on our track had yesterday is representative many are at best ambivalent. Having said that it was the Jubilee that precipitated the event which was definitely a really good and enjoyable chance to meet that we hadn’t had for a number of years. The invite didn’t mention the Queen btw.
It shouldn’t take something like the Jubilee to connect with your neighbours, but in lieu of any other reason it was welcome all the same.
This needs to be a key message coming out of this.
The atheists and Christmas parallel is quite valid. I hope A-A isn't the kind of sheeple who gives and receives gifts at Christmas, or eats chocolate eggs at Easter. Given the damage that religion has done to the world.
I think it's all going rather well from a progressive's point of view.
Liz isn't making it to all the events herself, which is drawing a fair amount of personal sympathy but also prompting a lot of people to say "But look what comes after".
Randy Andy has been given an enforced sickie so as not to be in any way visible.
De Pfeffel is a constant source of embarrassment and Liz would tell him to do one altogether if she could. Seeing that shambling mess and his gauche wife anywhere near Queenie is keeping the Partygate wound open.
The Brexit-caused chaos at airports is also taking up a lot of media time and space. Again it holds the country's folly up in sharp focus. It also creates the impression that half of the country just wanted to **** off somewhere (anywhere) else for a week despite the 'glory' of the occasion.
For everyone else it is about a couple of days off work and maybe attending one monarchy-themed event. But I think it will go down in most people's memories as 'that year when we got the Thursday and Friday off instead of the Monday' and the event will limp through this weekend with the inevitable dread of Monday morning looming larger and larger.
When it is over, nothing much will have changed, but the problems of a hereditary monarchy will be in slightly sharper focus. Even the elderly couple next door were very lukewarm about the prospect of King Charles V.
When we wake up on Monday, Russia will still be in Ukraine, prices will continue their skyward trajectory and we'll still have a government that is a living insult to the people it is supposed to serve.
public support of the monarchy is more than affection for the person of Elizabeth. It didn’t seem to occur to them that the same crowd is a self selecting and possibly not completely representative sample of the population. Certainly if the small get together that our six neighbours on our track had yesterday is representative many are at best ambivalent.
Quite. I think a lot of people have a soft spot for the Queen, even people who are probably ambivalent at best about the monarchy, and for the last few decades that goodwill has allowed the monarchy itself to kind of hide behind it. But when she's gone and it's out in the light again it will be obvious that it has no place in the 21st century. I don't think there's anything like enough goodwill towards the rest of them, especially Charles and Camilla, to allow it to be effectively tolerated the same way it has been.
I don’t think there’s anything like enough goodwill towards the rest of them, especially Charles and Camilla, to allow it to be effectively tolerated the same way it has been.
Good.
Quite. I think a lot of people have a soft spot for the Queen, even people who are probably ambivalent at best about the monarchy, and for the last few decades that goodwill has allowed the monarchy itself to kind of hide behind it. But when she’s gone and it’s out in the light again it will be obvious that it has no place in the 21st century. I don’t think there’s anything like enough goodwill towards the rest of them, especially Charles and Camilla, to allow it to be effectively tolerated the same way it has been.
That's a good somethingion and pretty much how I see it. At the age of 16 when I didn't know my arse from my elbow I swore an oath of allegiance to the Queen when I joined the army. Even then I knew she was just a symbolic figurehead. In the intervening 42 years my views on just about every major issue, including politics, religion, diversity, social justice, the monarchy etc. have taken a 180 degree turn. Doing the opposite of what is supposed to happen to peoples views as they age. I do however retain a degree of respect for the Queen as a person, but that doesn't extend to the monarchy as an institution. I can't imagine young people joining the forces in the near future, feeling at all comfortable pledging allegiance to 'King Charles'.
I think a lot of people have a soft spot for the Queen, even people who are probably ambivalent at best about the monarchy, and for the last few decades that goodwill has allowed the monarchy itself to kind of hide behind it. But when she’s gone and it’s out in the light again it will be obvious that it has no place in the 21st century. I don’t think there’s anything like enough goodwill towards the rest of them,
Yep I’d agree with this,she’s almost like an old aunty figure of a bygone era.
@blokeuotheroad I imagine the vast majority won’t give a toss when they do their attestation. It’s all just part of the process.
When I joined my interpretation of it was my country (and fellow countrymen) and the Queen was just the way of saying it.
However for very obvious reasons the Green Party does not at present attract self-serving career politicians, which for me makes them currently more attractive than either Labour or the LibDems,
This will be my approach to all our future elections until the main parties see that they are there for our service and not to feather their own nests.
assume you mean Nan?
You make a good point. Don’t post before coffee.
I do however retain a degree of respect for the Queen as a person, but that doesn’t extend to the monarchy as an institution.
I think you speak for millions there.
This is a fairly posh part of Cardiff:
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/cardiff-community-held-street-party-24134388
One thing I think this is showing again is the continuing divergence between Scotland and England ( once again I dunno about Wales / NI)
There is virtually nothing happening around this in Scotland - no protests even - simply the vast majority do not give two hoots about the jubilee. One local nostalgia facebook page has lots of comments - 50:1 anti jubilee celebrations. Comments in the scottish press are a similar ratio. Its leith jazz festival weekend and the market is on. Big street party atmosphere. Nothing to do with the jubilee anywhere visible.
its very much seen an english thing. Union flags here are the preserve of the sectarians. there is probably something happening in south lanakshire tho I guess.
flagshagging simply gets no traction here at all. the whole thing is a celebration of little englander nationalism.
I do however retain a degree of respect for the Queen as a person, but that doesn’t extend to the monarchy as an institution
Which is probably part of the conditioning process we go thru,other than being a granny figure why does she deserve respect,since allegedly it’s supposed to be earnt?
flagshagging simply gets no traction here at all. the whole thing is a celebration of little englander nationalism.
Posted from the country run by a nationalist party 🙂 you'll say it's not the same thing, but there is a lot of the same thing rolled up in it.
But I don't want to derail the thread so I'll not say any more.
flagshagging simply gets no traction here at all. the whole thing is a celebration of little englander nationalism.
Every now and then I let my guard down and start to think you might be a decent person. Then you revert to type and prove me wrong.
I think this is showing again is the continuing divergence between Scotland and England
Not really, there seems to be relatively little going on around me either (North of Manchester), a few half hearted efforts with bunting but very much the minority. I think most of the celebrations ate London / home counties centered.
I think a lot of people have a soft spot for the Queen
I think you are right but I find it strange how this has swung 180 since the 90s when she was largely disliked after being literally forced into any kind of dignified response to the death of her grandson's mother.
Maybe a symptom of the Nationalism that stalks all corners of these islands in one guise or another?
Every now and then I let my guard down and start to think you might be a decent person. Then you revert to type and prove me wrong.
It helps to remember he's actually English and Scotland is his adopted country. In some aspects I agree with TJ, the whole thing is a celebration of what used to be and/or an royalist idealist view of what England used to be 50-60 years ago, hence of-the-age symbolism like Lancaster Bombers.
England is a very different place today, not one I'm particularly proud of being involved with. We should stop living in the past find a national figure head(s) which could steer us to being a decent people. There are many individual English people who we can look up to with pride in sports, scientific achievement and many other areas from huge corporates to village greens, but unfortunately as a nation we are generically tarnished with imperialism, stupidity, lies and deceit shrouded by our directionless flag waving of an outdated symbol of a long time powerless Empire.
Oh Moley - I understand I know nowt about Welsh politics so don't comment on them You should do the same about Scots politics.
Ta Kryton.