[Closed] Jon venables back in custody for breaching conditions

Did someone mention leopards changing spots?

I sense a stw lynch mob forming..

Guess you are right clubber

Retired Detective Superintendent Albert Kirby, who led the murder inquiry, said he was surprised Venables was back behind bars.

He added: "I've always thought, with regards to that particular boy, that from what we've heard over the years there was every possibility he would have avoided going back into prison."

He can be recalled to prison for a very minor or petty crime. Murderers on parole ( as he was) have been recalled to prison and served years more for such things as shoplifting and driving offences.

He knows the rules the same as you and I.

Once you've made one cockup you make damn sure you never make another, and he's onld enough to realise that now. I struggle to care.

Fair point TJ - but given the situation, would you not make extra effort to avoid any sort of breach, I know I would however petty it may seem

For what its worth... I remember speaking to a teacher that taught JV. All the warning signs were there.

Strange timing really, as BBC 1 were showing a scene in their drama "five days" that would certainly remind many of those two murder children. Perhaps the lad watched it.

If i recall correctly the boys started doing things such as killing frogs/hedgehogs so perhaps the police feel any crime they commit needs extra vigilance.

clubber - Member
I sense a stw lynch mob forming..

Leave that to the other slags on his wing.

I'd be interested to find out what he did. Just out of nosiness obviously.

Who knows what he has done. It could be petty crime it could be serious. It could be non criminal act altogether such as going to Liverpool.

What is clear is that this shows that the parole system is working as intended.

These boys were not "freed" but remain under parole for the rest of their lives

Edit - before I am accused of it I am not defending him in any way nor passing any judgement on what has happened now.

Out of interest TJ, and because youre theonly person I know who has professional knowledge, how does it work when it comes to relationships/starting a family etc... Is it disclosed?

M6TTF - I don't know - its not really my sort of thing. I know a little about working in the judicial system but as a nurse.

So many peple must be involved in him living a lie. Presumably he was given employment, what is his employer told when he doesn't turn up for work, his family (god forbid he's ever been allowed to start one) it must be so time consuming and expensive to keep them secret only for him to mess up and put it all down the pan

waste of my hard earned...

I'm glad in a way.. it will keep the crazy eyed machiavellian mob from baying for blood for a moment or two.. and it shows that the system is functioning in a satisfactory manner..

Whatever he has done, it is serious enough that they decided to destroy the new identity that they've built for him.

I have as few facts as TJ, but can imagine that he hasn't been scrumping apples.

Just emphasises my point of a huge waste of tax layers coffers - once a bad egg....

I am a compassionate person but in my lifetime that case has effected me more than any other I've read about, I feel myself getting upset and angry just thinking about it - maybe as I have a young child and the thought of what they did happening to him is..... Well need I say more.

and what if your child was the perpetrator?

yunki
That's a worrying comment, it implies you would want to protect your kid if he or she was a child killer rather than march them straight to the nick and let them swing.

It shows he IS being monitored,I find that reassuring.

I'm not really implying THAT oldgit..
I'd be more than happy for the little sod to be out of my hands and into the hands of the judicial system...

I think all that I'm trying to say is that kids are effing 'orrible little blighters at times.. watch them in any playground in any school in any country..
and I personally believe that Bulgers killers were just 'orrible little boys who didn't know where the boundaries were.. not really their fault and probably quite easily fixed under the right circumstances..

leopards changing spots?
bad eggs?
they were little kids and were still learning the ropes.. they obviously had bad teachers..

give them a chance.. and the alarmist stuff about JV 'probably having done something awful'.. it's really not very likely at all.

I think all that I'm trying to say is that kids are effing 'orrible little blighters at times.. watch them in any playground in any school in any country..

Yup, killing each other left right and centre. 🙄

Give them a chance? They were given a chance, they were released under observation and couldn't stop themselves from doing something wrong again. Not the sort of person I wan't wandering the streets.

And to the person above who knows JVs teacher - why didn't they raise the point at a higher level, if all the warning signs were there?

good job they aren't wandering the streets then innit!!

He could have been recalled for something very minor - we just don't know. Murderers on license have been recalled and served years more for both shoplifting and for minor driving offences

good job they aren't wandering the streets then innit!!

That was our point, yours was that kids in general are unpleasant.

He could have been recalled for something very minor - we just don't know. Murderers on license have been recalled and served years more for both shoplifting and for minor driving offences

Stuck record TJ. I don't care how minor it is, everyone gets a chance to make mistakes, if you keep making mistakes you need further correction.

Anybody see the nasty piece of work reviewing the papers on Sky News this morning? "Louisa" something...

She didn't see why money needed to be spent on protecting Venables' identity. She thought that a lynch mob forming and killing him (presumably after a bit of torture) would be perfectly O.K. because "After all, it's only 30 years ago that we had the death penalty"...

Grils at work were saying 'poor fella, he'll be in a adult prison and they'll be out to get him'. As in they see him as some young boy still. I imagine hes grown into a bigger version of what he was.

At 10yrs old I used to hurt spiders, we had the odd lad growing up who used to stab people with metal compass and burn with matches etc. They were nasty pieces of work. I can imagine these lads would have gone onto eviler things.

At 7 I was able to realise that hurting spiders wasn't nice. I was able to realise that stabbing people with compasses was wrong (but funny at times) but pretty much harmless to large things like humans, everyone did it for a chuckle.

They have clearly been brought up badly to be like that, though some would say it's an inbuilt thing (I dont know, im no psychologist). Either way I think locking them up is the right thing to do and if they're that damaged by 10 I can't see much in the way of correction going on, most kids only get more viscious and unpleasant from that point on as fewer and fewer people have influence over them.

I think all that I'm trying to say is that kids are effing 'orrible little blighters at times.. watch them in any playground in any school in any country..

Yup, killing each other left right and centre

There is a certain amount of truth in this.
The most aggressive and violent time of a normal healthy person's life is during their infancy or early childhood. Just think about the terrible two's,with shouting, kicking or biting. If an adult behaved so explosively and violently they would be locked up.
Most children are taught and naturally develop to learn to control their anger and violence as their brain develops.

Coffeeking - you miss the point. We simply do not know why he has been recalled and it could have been for something minor. We just don't know.

It was mentioned on the news that Venables (could of been Thompson) was given a special dispensation to join the Army, the implication of that when an already vicious murderer being trained to kill somewhat contradicts the whole being out on parole for his crime. I suppose Jamie Bulgars Mother is glad he is behind bars though.

[i]We simply do not know why he has been recalled and it could have been for something minor.[/i]

Something minor PLUS the vicious murder of a small child.

Something minor PLUS the vicious murder of a small child.

News reports are implying that he could have been recalled for a "serious" offence, and that he'll be in the adult justice system for the first time. That'll make a change from the young persons system that he'll have been in previously.

From what the home sec said Venables was apparently recalled last week, so they've delayed letting the public know presumably to avoid every new youngish prisoner last week being attacked with boiling water & sugar mixture.

Well, after blowing a few hours reading that other thread on here about catching criminals in the act - and generally the plod not doing munch about it, good show that they've put this chap back behind bars.
I only hope it was for attempting to nick a bike.

could be petty crime it could be serious.

TandemJeremy - Member
Who knows what he has done. It could be petty crime it could be serious. It could be non criminal act altogether such as going to Liverpool.

Can I just add that, although I don't think it should necessarily be criminal for people to visit Liverpool, I would still make it indictable on the grounds of it not being very smart.

[i]It doesn't have to be any crime. His case manager could just not like his bevaiour, eg excessive drinking or unexplained absences from work. release under licence is not parole, you are still technically (as i understand it) subject to prison sentence and so can be recalled at any time and for any reason.[/]
I don't think it's a case of his case manager just 'not liking his behaviour'. I believe it'll be a case of him breaching a licence condition somewhere along the line.

Can't be a great time for a mid-twenties,dark-haired scouser to be getting dubbed up,I would imagine you might have some explaining to do!

esselgrunt
The case manager can make a judgement call on "appropriate behaviour". There are some specific conditions, but many are based on - is the behaviour appropriate or does it appear the person is likely to re-offend. Like I said, he is still technically in jail and can be recalled for any reason. If the Daily Mail starts a screaming campaign about the number of on licence crims stalking the streets of Middle England, a random number can be pulled in with no reason given. On licence offenders are not free people the way parolees are. Parolees have to be given a reason IIRC on licene don't

thats whats wrong with this country,civil rights and the protection of these shits,jon venables ,ian huntly and peter sutcliff too name but a few.where was there vitims civil rights ? and there families? this scum get banged up,then we have to pay for them ,all it takes is one injection ,and thats well worth the money.i personally would make them suffer buy letting them wait untill youve got enough positive evidence ,then out of the blue get rid off them!

I find myself having no sympathy for this character, they both had an horrific start to life and from what i understand they had a better upbringing in custody than they would have had at home, the chap that joined the Army i believe is or was in the Medical Corp, he has made a go of his life but this JV had a chance and failed to take it. He is probably on a segregation wing but should natural justice occur then it is what it is.

BigButSlimmer, cheers for that. I've only ever come into contact with re-calls who have breached licence conditions, didn't know offender managers could pull them in whenever. I think it's a good thing as it shows they're being monitored (ex cons & O/M's!)

they were little kids and were still learning the ropes.. they obviously had bad teachers..

Absolute bollocks. Kids, especially older ones, certainly know what's right and wrong when it comes to something as serious as what they did.

I don't quite understand why this had to be publicised, given that it was bound to create the kind of handwringing seen on this thread, if he's got a new identity then presumably he's John Smith, murderer, out on license, recalled because he breached his license terms, and only his parole officer and one or two others need know he is John Venables, he'll be held in a vunerable prisoners wing and probably on suicide watch, move on, nothing to see here, etc.

It really annoys me the naivety of some people who presume children do not know the right from wrong, my Autistic son aged 9 certainly does and always has, as does his older brother. I know it depends on their upbringing but Children know that it wrong to steal, Bully and defiantly kill. In fact its worse when a child commits such an act, as what hope is there for them then.

Coffeeking - you miss the point. We simply do not know why he has been recalled and it could have been for something minor. We just don't know.

I've no idea why you think I'm missing the point that you've made several times, I'm well aware of it. What's the point you're trying to make?

And I can't be bothered looking, but whoever mentioned the terrible twos - I'm not sure it quite relates really, I mean generally a 2 year old will kick and bite (through not being able to communicate their anger etc) but I speculate that they are not trying to kill people for fun, or intending to cause serious harm for their own amusement. As I said earlier, most kids go through a phase of biting/hitting for entertainment, but I'm not sure its even remotely related to what occurred in their original case.

As flippinheckler says kids DO know right from wrong, we are all born with an inherent sense of "do unto others", we just learn we can get away with things when we're not punished for it.

I'm not bothered by the guy being returned to the big hoose, but its interesting the naievity some of you have about kids behaviour. Lots of them are naturally boundary-pushing Amoral little s**ts.
I'm fairly sure that some of the 'hang-em/flog-em' type parents on here will have little darlings, that, in the course of 'normal bullying' have gone at least 50% as far (but were lucky enough not to get caught) as the Bulger killers.

west kipper - not sure where you were brought up or what your kids friends are like. I lived in a relatively small village (5000 or so people) where everyone knew each other at least through someone else. It was an outrage and held up as a grave error when I lobbed a small motor (out of an RC car) at a friend in order to pretend I'd "ticked" him in a game of tag. I was almost expelled for punching someone in the face in self defence. Parents still comment on it today and point out I was not an angel. And it wasn't even meant with malice; trust me out of hundreds of kids through that school if that's the one that sticks in parents and teachers heads the average incident has to be fairly tame! When we moved to high school we met some seriously unpleasant individuals (tied cats to train tracks and set fire to them as trains came etc). They are mostly in prison now.

Parental interest in their kids is IMO possibly the biggest missing factor here, back then if you got into trouble at school you went home to a roasting and a grounding. These days parents of kids in the school go in to complain that their kid got into trouble, totally undermining the teachers and backing the kids up in their error. Its this attitude that leads to future problems.

FFS, it's time to get on with your own life everybody, the do-gooder has won.
We've allowed a drug culture to flourish, we've allowed junkies to breed like wildwire, we've allowed our police farce to spend most of their time doing paperwork, we've allowed thugs/dealers/human traffickers/paedophilia/immigrants to excel.

And if they get the Jail?
We've allowed jails to become social gatherings for future projects(whilst not playing ds, ps, wii, telly, ipods, ect.)

What are the powers that be doing about it?
still filling their own pockets cause none of it directly affects them.
This country is F*cked because most of us are a selfish lot.

So what's your solution, steffy?

I would only have the solution if I ruled the country, but I don't so my thoughts on the solution are meaningless here.

AL_F
and the like minded, the country loves ya.

Ah, so you don't actually have any idea. Thought so.

Yes al_f, no idea.
Wish I could always jump to fast conclusions like your good self.

Steffy, So what is the problem with letting immigrants flourish? Or is that another one of your "ideas"?

Anyway, a child killing gay is going to be straight into solitary.

[b]So what is the problem with letting immigrants flourish? Or is that another one of your "ideas"? [/b]

No problem with them flourishing legally,it's the illegal stuff I was referring to and have a problem with.
But you probably think we have a first class legal system that takes care of them just as well.

If they had hanged the little bastard in the first place they would not have this problem now.

[b]Edric 64,[/b]

You should'nt have said that.
The singletrack do-gooders will be along to educate/re-habilitate you just shortly.

I do believe that this thread is about to change. Will that be tea or should I get a beer, hmm.

There will be a lot of people out there who know where he lives,his new name and occupation,let us hope they keep it to themselves,for the sake of all the vigalantee types that will now be looking for him.

What they did was wrong,and they got punished by the law of the land, which sometimes feels unfair to the victim and the families,along with concerned onlokers.

There will be a lot of people out there who know where he lives,his new name and occupation,let us hope they keep it to themselves,for the sake of all the vigalantee types that will now be looking for him.

Doubt it's an issue now, if he's been re-incarcerated.

coffeeking wrote:
[i]Parental interest in their kids is IMO possibly the biggest missing factor here, back then if you got into trouble at school you went home to a roasting and a grounding. These days parents of kids in the school go in to complain that their kid got into trouble, totally undermining the teachers and backing the kids up in their error. Its this attitude that leads to future problems. [/i]

I could'nt agree more.

"Well, after blowing a few hours reading that other thread on here about catching criminals in the act - and generally the plod not doing munch about it, good show that they've put this chap back behind bars."

This is the main thing, to me. People are blowing off about us being too soft, "the do-gooder has won.", probably the same people that went mental when he was released. But actually it's proof that the system works. This isn't a failure of the justice system, it's a success. I think it's a shame for him if he couldn't take the chance he was given but that's his issue, frankly I don't care that much but I do care that people can be given a chance, and that the process is out there to deal with that.

This country is F*cked because most of us are a selfish lot.

i'd say society as a whole is f*cked due to a universal selfishness and, worse still, greed.

all gone a bit Daily Mail, hasn't it?