[Closed] JFK

Stinks of Alex Jones and "infowars" to me.

And for that reason.

I'm out.

The best US President ever.

Really?

The US and USSR probably came closer to nuclear war during the Cuban Missile Crisis (under Kennedy) that at any other time. The Soviets had tactical nukes in Cuba as well as permission from Castro to use them if US forces landed. The US was completely unaware of this and didn't think that there were any nukes in Cuba at all...

US involvement in Vietnam also escalated significantly under Kennedy.

He was also rather flawed in his personal life. He seems to have had a rather hard time keeping his pants on. Although if I had a shot at Marilyn Monroe, well...

I think that the fact that he was assassinated skews peoples perception toward a much more positive reputation than if he survived.

Bay of Pigs on his watch too, which really led to the Cuban missile crisis.

yawn

Obviously, Lee Harvey Oswald was just a patsy and couldn't have made that shot

An ex-marine sharpshooter with a hunting rifle made to fire accurately at a long distance.

Right.

I am not one for conspiracy theories but thought the explanation of the 3rd shot as a Secret Service accidental discharge seemed plausible.

Although LHO did pretty well with his 2nd shot and that may well of been fatal anyway.

An ex-marine sharpshooter with a hunting rifle made to fire accurately at a long distance.

It was a WW2 surplus Italian Army rifle.

It was a WW2 surplus Italian Army rifle.

Never been fired, only dropped once? 😀

thanks for that Bazz, Tea up nose now 😀 LOL

Never been fired, only dropped once?

I had a pair of their army boots from the Surplus shop.

The heels were at the front to make retreating easier 🙂

I grew up (in the States, Florida) after his death and it was all encompasing, the media, the outage from it, the family intreague, my Mother followed it intently and it must have rubbed off on me because I somehow feel part of it.
Those Films and TV shots of them all, it's like I lived it, like I know them all..

Bit strange that 😀

Decided to Google Abraham Zapruder last night when checking out the new Parkland film. Hadn't heard of him before, but [url= http://dangerousminds.net/comments/zapruder_speaks_vintage_interview_with_the_man_who_shot_the_kennedy_assassi ]his live footage[/url] of the assassination itself is incredible.

WARNING: the footage starts at the 5:20 mark on the YT vid and literally shows the [b]bloody[/b] reality of what happened. NSFW for some here no doubt + please think twice about watching if you have a disposition towards this kind of thing. I watched it twice last night and have no desire to see it again.

spacemonkey - Where have you been! 🙂 I am assuming you have been in space for the last 50 years if you have only just discovered the Zapruder footage! This must be one of the most famous and widely watched films in history!

Conspiracies ay.

@winston: I've always been fascinated by the whole JFK thing so TBH I don't know how I never hear about Zapruder. Or maybe I did years ago before the interweb?

TBH, i've never really understood what all the fuss is about. The "President" is just a political title, kill one of them, and another one comes along pretty quickly (in fact, about 2.5hrs after they shot the previous one in this case!) In our democratic countries, the president alone does not carry enough weight to pass policies by themselves so killing one man is hardly going to change a nation now is it? In fact, historical evidence suggests exactly the opposite, whereby if someone is made a martyr their policies and beliefs survive for longer in the public opinion!

Interesting fact about Mr Zapruder - according to his family he never once looked down the lens of a film camera again after that day.

[img] [/img]

Obviously, Lee Harvey Oswald was just a patsy and couldn't have made that shot

Despite what you'll have read on the conspiracy sites making those shots would be easy for any half-competent shooter. There is some talk about the telescopic sights being damaged (although it's not know if they were damaged before or after JFK was shot) but it the rifle also had iron sights and at the close distance the shots were from it'd have been easier and faster to use those.

I thought there had been a number of test done by marksman the vast majority of which failed to match the shots that was supposed to have been fired by Oswald. Either accuracy or timing.
I don't really go in for conspiracy theories but I've always though there was something fishy about the JFK murder.

I think a lot of the problem with this is that people think Oliver Stone was making a documentary (including Oliver Stone, to be fair).

thought there had been a number of test done by marksman the vast majority of which failed to match the shots that was supposed to have been fired by Oswald. Either accuracy or timing.

Nope. The vast majority of tests the shooters made the time and hit the target. The conspiracy theory make a lot of the scope being out - which it was in the tests - but not enough to be a problem.

Lee Harvey Oswald was just a patsy and couldn't have made that shot

He was an ex. Marine, the US Marines have one of the highest marksmanship standards in the US, having to qualify at ranges way beyond those normally used in the military. He was also ranked very highly for his shooting ability. In addition, he was shooting one of histories fasting reloading bolt-action rifles over short range at a very slow moving target. I'm quiet confident all my kids could have pulled of those shots with that rifle.

Do not take details from the film JFK as factual. When the film was released Oliver Stone was universally slated for its inaccuracy, to which he responded 'Hey it's only a bit of light entertainment' (or something like that).

Interesting reading here...

http://22november1963.org.uk/what-is-the-jfk-assassination-magic-bullet-theory

The US and USSR probably came closer to nuclear war during the Cuban Missile Crisis (under Kennedy) that at any other time.

And it was Kruschev who saved the day iirc.

I don't normally have any time for conspiracy theories......

However, I'm pretty convinced that John Peel was the mastermind behind all this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy_assassination_rifle

molgrips - Member

The US and USSR probably came closer to nuclear war during the Cuban Missile Crisis (under Kennedy) that at any other time.

And it was Kruschev who saved the day iirc.
- See more at: http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/jfk?replies=3#post-5532702

How so?

TuckerUK - Member

Do not take details from the film JFK as factual.

Do not take details from an official government narrative as factual.

Sure, LHO's bullet would be responsible if it could do a bit of a hairpin turn in the air.

And there was also probably some special driver training where it's best to not floor it and get the president of the country away from any danger ASAP, but instead to go slower. 🙄

Anyway, the occult ritualism of the whole thing smacks of something planned by initiates in high places. For them to get away with it of course they would need someone else to blame it on - poor old Mr Oswald. Then repeat the official narrative enough for it to become the established truth (a technique they learnt from Goebbels & co) et voila. And the pièce de résistance was to begin to use the term 'conspiracy theorist' to smear anyone who questions or points out holes in the official story. The scumbags at the top are clever, you gotta hand it to them. Their lies fooled me for a long time too.

^The official line is a great piece of fiction.

Joe, from my understanding (which may well be flawed) there was a standoff, and fingers were on buttons, but Kruschev decided he couldn't bring himself to wipe out millions of people, so agreed to back down.

Anyway, the occult ritualism of the whole thing...

please explain ?? ......

Jacqui did it!

... and by the way, that video at the top of the thread? That's not Kennedy, that's someone doing a poor impersonation (notice no live video, just a portmanteau of still shots). Typical conspiracy theorist. Start with a fake, then build more fakery on top. Feh.

There was programme on earlier this week that pointed the finger for the fatal headshot (the one that took 1/2 his head off) at the following security detail and specifically the guy seen holding the rifle. It was pretty plausible but [url= http://www.philly.com/philly/news/Shooting_holes_in_theory_that_a_Secret_Service_agent_killed_President_Kennedy.html ]THIS[/url] debunks most of it fairly easily.

The secret service agent accidentally shooting JFK was one I hadn't heard of til the other week but it has one major plus point for me.
I would believe in ineptitude over conspiracy (government or otherwise) any day of the week.
So yeah some muppet with his finger over the trigger got jolted in the speeding car and blammo.

I used to be keen on the JFK conspiracy theories. Oliver Stone's film played a big part in that. He weaves a very convincing tale.

Trouble is a lot of it is factually incorrect.

Oswald was an excellent shot, he had plenty of time to fire 3 shots and the so called magic bullet actually travelled in a straight line.

Still its a nice story and Oswald was a murky enough character that he makes an excellent starting point for conspiracy theories.

If you want a proper dodgy assassination look no further than JFK's brother

Oliver stone makes a good film that's for sure...

Another big fan of his work here obviously..... 🙄

[quote=6079smithw]Sure, LHO's bullet would be responsible if it could do a bit of a hairpin turn in the air.

I actually find the secret service guy theory quite believable certainly puts a lot of the other theories to bed and explains a lot of why a lot of the testimonies by secret service agents dont seem to tie up with anyone elses

Just been having a scan on the Cuban missile crisis - as far as I can see, Russia only put missles on Cuba because the Americans had them in Turkey and Italy, and their withdrawal was kept secret, which kinda made Russia look like it was all down to them, and they chickened out when things got a bit spicy.

Well, I never knew that!

Russia only put missles on Cuba because the Americans had them in Turkey and Italy

And America only did that because... (point being you could go back for years with the tit for tat stuff.) And some of it was Cuba wanting them due to the American Bay of Pigs failed invasion.

Love the Umbrella Man film above, very good stuff.

Also have we done Oswald's assassination? As fascinating as Kennedy's I think.

That bit about the turkey missile base only came out after the 30 year de-classification period - there was a lot published in 1993 afaik.

its true but the fact is the US put missiles on the USSR border so they the USSR did the same] but the US would not accept this . The USSR publicly removed theirs from Cuba and the US secretly removed theirs afterwards - I hope thats correct its a while since I read up on this

On a related issue, I saw a short voxpop about the anniversary last night filmed at a gathering of "conspiracy theorist" types in the USA who were sporting their legally-owned guns in a demo at "the Grassy Knoll" and at a bar in Dallas.

They were saying stuff like "Obama is a member of the Muslim Brotherhood" and everything that happens in the world is because of the "Bilderberg Group" and how they weren't "allowed" to "practice their faith" anymore and so on...

They looked, frankly, as if they were completely barking. The programme said that they represented roughly 62% of political opinion in the USA today.

Don't know about you, but I find that slightly worrying...

I think a large part of the trouble is that the US government are like the international boy who cried wolf, they spend so much time denying their involvement in things like the Iran-contra affair, small wars in Latin America etc. that when they say "We had no involvement in this assassination", not every one believes them.

The fact is we may never find out the truth unfortunately, and if there was something to hide then that suits any perpetrators.

I think a large part of the trouble is that the US government are like the international boy who cried wolf

Yes, but to be fair they get accused of being involved in absolutely everything.

hard to explain that given how isolationist they are and how they rarely do anything outside their own borders and never get caught doing it either
It not like they are spying on us all now is it...

No bullets travelled in anything other than a straight line (until they hit something that deflected them), that's another film myth. People most probably heard gunshots from the grassy knoll because of the way sound travels and is reflected off buildings. It's very hard if not impossible for a human ear to find the direction of a gunshot in a built up area.

And as for key witness statements being contradictory, well, doh, yeah. It's a very well known and very very well documented failing of humans. Indeed, one famous experiment had a University/College class taken down the bar/pub for lunch were a murder was staged. When questioned afterwards the majority of students identified the wrong perpetrator.

As with everything else in life, and as I've said before in this thread (and others), if there is no concrete peer reviewed court admissible evidence to support something, you can safely dismiss it.

Ok, so not knowing much about all of this and being part of the generation that was seemingly put on the wrong path by the JFK film, what about Jack Ruby? That whole thing's still pretty suspicious, hey? I mean as in silencing LHO before he could stand trial...

No, it was John someone, not Jeff Kay 🙄

It's very hard if not impossible for a human ear to find the direction of a gunshot in a built up area.

The weirdest thing for me, about the whole thing, was Carol Kirkwood presenting the weather from the JFK memorial (Runnymede) this morning.

"And now here's Carol with the weather...from the JFK memorial"

😐

what about a car engine on a busy road?

Continuous noise, you can track it.

Jack Ruby? That whole thing's still pretty suspicious, hey?

I've heard Ruby was a small time wannabe who hung around the cops trying to get himself some influence, he loved JFK with a passion, and thought he could become a hero by shooting Oswald. In my limited experience of people that doesn't sound implausible.

For the record, I've not seen the movie you all speak of.
It's not where I've seen the evidence for these things, only books and websites.

As with everything else in life, and as I've said before in this thread (and others), if there is no concrete peer reviewed court admissible evidence to support something, you can safely dismiss it.

I've heard Ruby was a small time wannabe who hung around the cops trying to get himself some influence, he loved JFK with a passion, and thought he could become a hero by shooting Oswald. In my limited experience of people that doesn't sound implausible.

What a goody two shoes toe-the-line rhetoric.

It's been exposed that paid-for trolls exist to maintain the official authority line on forums if anyone's dare questioning it.

Trolling the internet to discredit loons and get paid for it - Awesome where do i apply?

Hillsborough is a good example

yes they have happened but you have to prove each one not point out that sometimes they happen

Trolling the internet to discredit loons and get paid for it - Awesome where do i apply?

Citing paid trolls is a prime example of conspiracists sounding completely bonkers,

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.
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not least because WTF would any government pay someone to do it when there's plenty of rational people around who will pick holes in the more outrageous theories for free!

It's been exposed that paid-for trolls exist to maintain the official authority line on forums if anyone's dare questioning it.

Has it ? Where ?

...Jack Rubenstein

Why not use the name, literally, everyone else uses ? Jack Ruby.

Did you use "rubestein" rather than "ruby" to make it sound like you had some sort of superior knowledge about this subject ?

A little tip for you, if you are going to do that in future, his first name was actually Jacob, not Jack.

🙂
Well played the glover

This is going to get funny, I can feel it in my bones. 😀

What a goody two shoes toe-the-line rhetoric.

That's not what I've been called by some posters on the religion threads where I've pointed the exact same thing out! 😆 You obviously haven't chanced across my postings much, I don't DO toeing the line. 😉

Oswald wasn't going to go quietly. He said he was innocent and was just a patsy.

He said he was innocent??? Well now you tell me! Well that's him off the hook then. 🙄

Lots of people in the street below who pointed up at him at the depository window shouting 'there's the shooter' (or words to that effect) disagree. Sure, they could be mistaken, but coupled with all the other evidence.

goddaamnn mutants did it

http://www.thebentbullet.com/#!/home