MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
"Anyone heard anything from the labour party? That champion of workers rights?"
Old news:
Thousands of people have rushed to join the party to vote for him - they haven't done that because he's a centrist
Half of all Labour Party members voted for Corbyn to become leader - are half of Labour Party members all left-wingers ? Is there no centre ?
If you think Corbyn got elected leader because he is left-wing then you don't understand what's happened.
Clodhopper. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that not all the British electorate read the Labourlist website? And yet they're not just speaking to their own echo chamber, are they?
The Labour party have said eff all today about something that is an open goal for them. Or certainly bloody should be!!! Phillip Green is 'the enemy'. He's a turbo-capitalist asset stripper who is clearly the enemy of the workers.
But ....
nothing.
Not a bloody word!
Even Theresa May has come out and condemned him FFS!!!
And thats what's considered as being an effective opposition, is it? When you can't even muster making a statement on a day where the Tory wet dream of unfettered neoliberal capitalism is looking as shabby and threadbare as this.
Instead... the silence is deafening. So this actually manages to make it look like the Tory's are more concerned for workers that labour
Jesus ****ing christ! If you regard that as political competence....?
Old news:
That's a bit unfair clodhopper, when binners asks [i]"Anyone heard anything from the labour party? Remember them? That champion of workers rights?"[/i] he has a point.
Most Labour MPs would rather go on strike and not take up shadow minister positions to attack the Tories, preferring instead to, with the help of the media, attack the Labour leader.
Well what is he then ?
Left of centre left? Left wing would do it.
It doesn't matter how many Labour Party supporters, er, support him.
He won't carry that level of popularity into the country in a General Election and will lose. Just the same way all the other Labour leaders have lost, who the bulk of the conservative-minded English electorate percieved to be "Left Wing"...
"Labour, the Wilderness years." Chapter, oooh, I lost count...
a statement on a day where the Tory wet dream of unfettered neoliberal capitalism is looking as shabby and threadbare as this.
Theresa May is a Corporatist who believes in the control of the economy from Government.
The dreaming MP's you describe are, in fact, very few.
Which is actually the problem.
"Clodhopper. I'm going to go out on a limb here..."
And actually answer my question? 😮
Ah, no. Some nonsense about Labour not saying something you wanted them to say (have they been asked for a statement yet?).
You keep banging on about Corbyn, yet fail to answer a simple question. It's incredible to think that you've been posting countless thousands of words on this thread for [i]over a year[/i]. 😯 Yet in all that time, it doesn't appear that you've actually said anything of any real note or value. Monkeys and typewriters? I'm not so sure...
Most Labour MPs would rather go on strike and not take up shadow minister positions to attack the Tories, preferring instead to, with the help of the media, attack the Labour leader.
I'm not on anyones side here. There are no winners here. Apart from Sir Phillip. Certainly not the pensioners. Its a ****ing shambles! An absolute car crash!
But this on Corbny's watch. He's the leader. Allegedly. And he can't even muster someone - anyone - to get out there in the media and make a statement, when gifted a political open goal like this?
Seriously? No-one?
Phillip Green was appointed as an advisor to David Camerons government. An advisor about cuts to the public sector. Yes... really. You couldn't make it up
And yet the present Labour leadership is so utterly clueless that they're not that bothered about getting on the news broadcasts and maybe mentioning any of this. Seriously? Its an absolute tragedy. If this is how the official opposition behaves, then there really isn't an opposition at all
Binners; you can't even muster an answer to a simple question, so you're hardly one to criticise others. 😆
You know, if you put as much time and effort inot doing something constructive, as you do on here, you might achieve something.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-36868397
And on that note...
Isn't Frank Field Labour?
5thElefant - Member"Well what is he then ?"
Left of centre left? Left wing would do it.
So you posted a laughing emoticon when clodhopper claimed that Corbyn is left of centre because you think he is left wing ?
Well that's hardly the most hilarious thing I've seen today. Although obviously you found it very funny.
Personally I don't like the term 'left of centre' and I'm suspicious of people who use it. If you are to the left of the centre you are very obviously by definition not at the centre - you are to the left.
Left is [i]always[/i] to the left of the centre, so why even mention it ? It is as unnecessary as saying "to the left of the right".
So you posted a laughing emoticon when clodhopper claimed that Corbyn is left of centre because you think he is left wing ?
No, because he thinks JC is centre left. Which is electable.
As CTK alludes to Frank Field was all over the radio this morning condemning Phillip Green.
Frank Field is the the chair of the Work and Pensions Select Committee which published the report. And this whole thing has got very personal between him and Phillip Green. So he was speaking in that role on the radio this morning. Which is bipartisan and not party political
My point is that if the labour front bench can't see this as an absolute gift - a great big case of ammunition to start attacking the Tory's and their nice cosy relationship with the likes of Phillip Green - then you may as well give up calling yourself an opposition. Because you're clearly not up to the job....
Especially when the only point you do choose to stand up and take a stand about - the only one I can think of recently - is unilateral nuclear disarmament....
Talk about choosing your battles....
Absolutely politically clueless!
Even Ed Miliband would have been all over this one!
binners - Member"Most Labour MPs would rather go on strike and not take up shadow minister positions to attack the Tories, preferring instead to, with the help of the media, attack the Labour leader".
I'm not on anyones side here.
So on this thread you have gone from supporting Corbyn to opposing Corbyn to not being on anyone's side.
Well I suppose that your moderate use of language, your careful calm measured responses, and your reluctance to say what you really mean, makes these subtle changes hard to detect.
My point is that if the labour front bench can't see this as an absolute gift - a great big case of ammunition to start attacking the Tory's and their nice cosy relationship with the likes of Phillip Green
Maybe they're afraid someone might ask what happened to the BHS pension fund between 2000 and 2010?
Well I guess this was to be expected, you can't ignore a contract which has been entered into just because you want to rig an election to stop the favourite from winning.
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/25/labour-party-members-abuse-leadership-vote-ian-mcnicol ]Labour sued by members barred from leadership vote[/url]
[i]Kate Harrison, of Harrison Grant, said: “The basis of the claim is that [the members’] entitlement to vote in the leadership election is part of their contract with the Labour party. They all joined when the Labour party website said in terms ‘you will be eligible to vote in leadership elections’.”[/i]
The article also claims :
[i]There are also signs that Corbyn may be slowly winning round some MPs who initially took part in the wave of mass resignations last month. It emerged on Monday that Sarah Champion had asked for her job back as shadow Home Office minister and she had now returned to the frontbench. [/i]
I have long thought that most would eventually fall in line.
On t'Beeb, too -
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36886157 ]Labour MP "unresigns"[/url]
Because you're clearly not up to the job....
If the news is already out, what's the point in standing around the commons jeering at each other about it?
Maybe they're just getting on with doing something a bit less meaningless?
Maybe they're just getting on with doing something a bit less meaningless?
Beautifully sums up the attitude of the Momentum/leftie lot
Not even remotely bothered about the fact that [s]Reg, the Glorious Leader, and Head of the PFJ[/s] Jeremy, the Glorious Leader, and Head of the Momentum, hasn't even tried to land a blow on the [s]Romans[/s] Tory's, even when faced with an open goal, because he's far too preoccupied with stitching up the real enemy. Those bastards in the [s]Popular Peoples Front![/s] PLP
Solidarity Comrade!
[img] 
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My point is that if the labour front bench can't see this as an absolute gift - a great big case of ammunition to start attacking the Tory's and their nice cosy relationship with the likes of Phillip Green - then you may as well give up calling yourself an opposition. Because you're clearly not up to the job....
Maybe the Labour front bench are worried that that binners will start slagging them off on STW for criticisng Tonly Blair again,after all it was Blair who made him a "Sir".
[img] 
?w=620&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&s=cce2d1412c105eb219f8950a2f3e8f1e[/img]
http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2006/06/19/sir-philip-green-the-rewards-of-tax-avoidance/
Labour MP unresigns.
I would have thought a Labour MP from Rotherham would possibly be the world's least qualified person to tackle Child Abuse.
Left/right of centre = left / right admittedly the "of centre" is redundant
So he gets to stitch up both the Blairites and the Tory's? A double Whammy?!
And still not a peep?
And apparently he's a politician?
He's not a very good one, is he?
He's not a very good one, is he?
You're joking aren't you? Look at his track record of campaign successes:
Mandela - Free
Apartheid - Finished
Cruise Missiles - Gone
Thatcher - Gone
Reagan - Gone
Ireland - Peace
Iraq - Troops Home
Blair - Gone
Bush - Gone
EEC - Out
NHS - Still Here
All these things [b]entirely[/b] down to Jeremys intervention.
Ninfan - That explains why Dennis Skinner had time to spare to fight the Union Of Democratic Mineworkers the other day.
Your score:
11/25
A score of 5 is the furthest left and 25 is the furthest right. Around a fifth of the population have similar views to you. Your views would have been close to the centre of the political spectrum in 1995 and 1996
shit if it puts me anywhere near the middle 😉
11/25 aswell. Do I need to vote for my butty Owen now? I bet he's 11/25
20/25
5/25
Class war, always has been, always will be
the bold bit is the most telling part of that...A score of 5 is the furthest left and 25 is the furthest right. Your answers would place you a long way from the political centre in any year but [b]you would have been closest to the centre of political opinion in 1995 and 1996.[/b]
binners - MemberHe's not a very good one, is he?
This thread is a year old and people were predicting he'd be gone in weeks/months. Seems he's better at it than you think. Particularly when he's constantly attacked from outwith and within. A lesser politician would have been ousted yonks ago.
So the evidence is against you there.
tories and blairites.... ASSEMBLE
I'm holding a prayer meeting, it's your last hope
If you pray hard enough Corbyn will suffer a heart attack like John Smith did
please God..
Deliver us from redemption
Amen
@seaso I predicted he'd be gone in May after the SNP crushed Labour again. In fact the Tories got second and he's still here 😉
that's because he's leader of the [b]english [/b]labour party! 😉 😆
So it turns out from leaked emails that the US political establishment, in the form of the Democratic National Committee - which is supposed to be neutral in the primaries, was engaged in underhand activity to derail Bernie Sanders bid to be the Democratic nominee.
Despite the fact that Bernie Sanders is "unelectable" they still had to smear him and sabotage his campaign to stop him from winning.
What's this got to do with Corbyn I hear you ask. Well growing disillusionment with the established political elite is a phenomenon which is spreading across Europe and the United States. The reaction to this phenomenon is predictable, the establishment/political elite are fighting back with all at their disposal, and with little regards to the rules.
Anyone who thinks the UK establishment/political elite is any different is hopelessly naive imo.
We might never see leaked plotters emails from wikileak, but in the case of the UK they had to exclude 20% of Labour Party members and suspend all constituency parties in a bid to derail Corbyn.
And the anger which this has caused is as predictable as the anger which Bernie Sanders supporters now feel.
This thread is a year old and
Risk with Corbyn is that he stays for two years, before they realise he's wearing Foots donkey jacket, dump him and David Miliband comes back on the scene into the election.
Yes, but the Labour party has a much greater number of nutters and extremists supporting it than the Conservatives. Once they get Corbyn in as leader they will fight viciously for him to stay in place. Any moderate, centrist leader following him will still be fighting his own party at the time of the next election.
I was trying to think of what the Conservative version of electing Corbyn would be - I'd guess it would be digging up and re-animating Enoch Powell.
I'm looking forward to receiving my vote- £3 well spent.
£3? Thought it was £25! Assume you'll be voting Corbyn to 'stitch up' the Labour Party? Some people have no shame.
Owen Smith was given a pretty easy time on Newsnight, thought he came across OK, the Labour Party has moved to the left if he's the centrist candidate. I think the leadership contest might be close. (goes to check odds)
As I understand it if you paid £3 9 months ago you're still a supporter and can vote again
Ernie, Bernie Saunders was never going to win the nomination, he didn't lose due to any so called smears. Corbyn isn't being smeared, people fundamentally disagree with him as he has historically done wrt the Labour Party policy. Almost every senior Labour figure with experience of government was against his nomination and election as they foresaw the current shambles.
To be clear the Tories are delighted he is leader and have kept quiet about his shortfalls and have been very limited in their critism of him.
£3? Thought it was £25! Assume you'll be voting Corbyn to 'stitch up' the Labour Party? Some people have no shame.
You've only just figured this out? 10 months too late I'm afraid comrade. That ship sailed, but I've no doubt there will be plenty of Tories who've shelled out 25 to achieve the same result this time too.
I honestly think that if Owen is elected (he's far from perfect, but he's the only electorally realistic option) and Corbyn has successfully dragged the direction of travel of the labour party to the left then that would be a result.
I do believe it needs to be a genuine party of the centre left. And I agree with a lot of what Jezza says. But most swing voters in a marginal seat will look at Corbyn, with his refusal to sing the national anthem, and his call for unilateral nuclear disarmament (which the right wing press will be hammering home in the run up to any GE) and just thing Looney Left straight out of the 80's. So he's simply unelectable from that perspective.
You can moan about it all you like, but its what any labour leader is up against.
And then there is the fact that he has no functioning political radar. He's proved it time and again. He did it again yesterday. Faced with an open goal by the Tories, he'll spoon it into Row Z. Set him an elephant trap (like Dave did with the Trident debate) and he'll stroll straight into it. Any politician with a functioning political antenna would have seen that one coming a mile off, and refused to play the game!
He misses every opportunity to land a blow on the opposition, and strolls straight into the traps set for him by a much shrewder and astute Tory front bench. Being sat behind him while he does that, time and again, must be exasperating.
Any effective political leader needs to be way, way sharper than that
This thread is a year old and people were predicting he'd be gone in weeks/months. Seems he's better at it than you think.
Thats not down to any particular political acumen. That just proves how stubborn he is. Which we knew anyway. He's been demonstrating that for 30 years. And how good his supporters have been at taking full advantage of the new rules. And lets be honest, I think the PLP are still struggling with getting their heads around that one.
"This thread is a year old and people were predicting he'd be gone in weeks/months."
The situation is far worse than if he'd gone after a few weeks. *Nobody* was predicting a cock up anywhere near this scale 12 months ago.
You've only just figured this out? 10 months too late I'm afraid comrade. That ship sailed, but I've no doubt there will be plenty of Tories who've shelled out 25 to achieve the same result this time too.
I understand that if you paid your £3 last time you can vote again in the forthcoming election without making a further payment. If this is true I will not be voting this time as what is repeated first as farce is repeated a second time as tragedy - it was fun and funny the first time round but the country and indeed the Conservative party need an effective opposition to question their decisions.
A centrist blairite leader would be unable to score these open goals. In fact they'd be putting them in their own net.
The amount of times in the lead up to the last election I heard a Tory say "NHS? Labour privatized it more than us". "Royal Mail, it was Labour's idea to privatize it" Academies, Foreign Policy etc etc before you even get to the economy.
Corbyn needed to happen. I think all the Tories who think Corbyn is great are kidding themselves, he is moving the centre of politics leftwards.
... it's a point of view. Trouble is it's looking like Tory govt for the next 13 years and the end of Labour as a party of government (Corb prefers mass movements to actually running things.)
If Tories in power for 13 years it wont be Corbyns fault. If he loses next G.E he'll stand down. Then the next Labour leader can unite the members/PLP behind her and...
I am stunned by Owen Smith's latest stupidity of questioning Jeremy Corbyn's patriotism.
[url= http://home.bt.com/news/uk-news/patriotism-not-part-of-corbyns-make-up-owen-smith-11364075595911 ]Patriotism not part of Corbyn's make-up - Owen Smith [/url]
I appreciate that questioning Corbyn's patriotism might work with some Daily Mail readers but that's not his target audience, which is Labour Party members who aren't going to fall for that sort of bollocks.
If he thinks saying to Labour Party members "look at me everybody, I'm more patriotic than Corbyn" is going to win him votes, then he is as clueless and out of touch with the Labour Party as all those MPs who thought that Corbyn stood less chance than a snowflake in hell to become leader.
I think this cheap dig proves that Owen Smith has no idea what it takes to win. Mind you this is a man who failed to win a seat for Labour which Michael Foot won with 75% of the vote.
And this is the plotters best man/woman ? They really are doomed.
I think all the Tories who think Corbyn is great are kidding themselves, he is moving the centre of politics leftwards.
So the new measure of success for the Labour Party is whether future governments are 'Tory' or 'One Nation Tory' 😀
"If he loses next G.E he'll stand down"
Why?
He has a mandate from the membership. He's (rightly or wrongly) going to stay as long as they support him and change the party the way they want it.
Given that explain why losing an election would require him to resign?
I'd have thought he'd be stuck in the job until a suitably JC-esque alternative leader is available.
"And this is the plotters best man/woman ? They really are doomed."
They are indeed doomed. Most likely JC will win the Leadership and most of the PLP will be deselected but even if not the self proclaimed "party of death threats" ain't gonna win in 2020 after washing their dirty linen in public.
ninfan - Member"I think all the Tories who think Corbyn is great are kidding themselves, he is moving the centre of politics leftwards".
So the new measure of electoral success for the Labour Party is how 'One Nation Tory' future Tory governments are? 😀
That is not what ctk said, which of course you know that's why you added a 😀 at the end.
Corbyn can move the centre of politics leftwards by winning elections and he can also do it without winning elections. "Electoral success" has nothing to do with the point ctk was making.
cranberry - MemberI understand that if you paid your £3 last time you can vote again in the forthcoming election without making a further payment.
Your understanding is poor.
"If he loses next G.E he'll stand down"Why?
He said he would recently.
So the new measure of success for the Labour Party is whether future governments are 'Tory' or 'One Nation Tory'
Corbyn is making room for real debate and creating real differences between the parties. If the country votes Tory then that's what we get. What has frustrated me over the last x amount of years is there hasn't been enough to differentiate the 3 main parties. (and to my eyes it was all a bit Tory!) "3 cheeks of the..."
Corbyn can move the centre of politics leftwards by winning elections and he can also do it without winning elections.
Ernie what is the point of moving politics in any direction if you don't win elections - you simply end up being a cult? Mainstream Politics went to the right in a matter one day with Brexit. The current policy guru for Theresa May is the man who wants to remove all workers rights within new businesses and make benefits levels dependant on where you live! What's JC going to debate around that from his ****ing communal yurt? I can only assume this is some super troll job. I am with Binners old school left of centre with social responsibility which is what most folks want.
Yes but the centrists in Labour want the same as May!
"He said he would recently."
Got a link?
By the way very left wing policies tend to lead to large youth unemployment (look at France) as the old left protect jobs and working practices
Is there an element of voter turnout to consider?
It would seem very very likely that the percentage is going to be way up on the recent 60ish %
And that undoubtedly has something to do with politics becoming more credible to an apathetic demographic who have historically considered the whole diabolical charade to be too unremarkable to bother with
If Tories in power for 13 years it wont be Corbyns fault. If he loses next G.E he'll stand down.
I see no evidence whatsoever that he'd stand down under any circumstances. He seems to be enjoying turning the Labour Party into a leftie protest group, in his own image, far too much.
Winning elections, or holding the Tories to account barely seems to register on his radar. I can only see that getting worse as his position becomes more entrenched, and the bunker mentality gets worse
I haven't votes in 30 years. I'll certainly vote if Corbyn is standing. I'll vote Plaid Cymru if I have to.
At least it's interesting to watch a once-proud political party eating itself from the inside out.
As evidenced by most of the left-wing arguments on this thread. Apart from binners, who at least is aware of the impending future in the wilderness for the remnants of the "people's party" due to the insightful and inspiring leadership currently on display...
I see no evidence whatsoever that he'd stand down under any circumstances.
It seems a bit inconsistent if he has said it.
There are 3 Mandates AFAICT. PLP, Members & electorate.
AFAICT JC is arguing the Members mandate trumps the PLP.
If he's going to stand down on losing an election then he's suddenly saying the Members mandate isn't sacrosanct and just picking the mandates that suit him.
Outofbreath it was McDonnell on the Andrew Marr show not the Corbinator so as you were.
outofbreath - Member
There are 3 Mandates AFAICT. PLP, Members & electorate.
technically that's only 2 mandates.
Winning elections, or holding the Tories to account barely seems to register on his radar. I can only see that getting worse as his position becomes more entrenched, and the bunker mentality gets worse
The bunker mentality comes from the PLP taking every opportunity to screw him over.
[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/labour-leadership-tories-conservative-party-poll-vote-intention-theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn-a7156381.html ]There you go.[/url]
There you go.
So the Tories have now got a 16 point lead.
For 10 months the Blairites dreamed of the catastrophic election results for Labour which they had predicted, but none came.
Now after a month of plotting, sabotaging, and relentless attacks on the Labour Party leader, all carefully coordinated with the media, they appear to be finally getting their reward.
Who would have thought it eh ?
I wonder if they will ever match when the Blairites were last in power and the Tories had a 22 percent lead in 2008 ?
[b][i]"The Tories enjoyed a 22-point ComRes lead in July, while other polls put it as high as 28 points last month."[/i][/b]
I'm sure that if they keep hammering away it will be achievable.
.
5thElefant - MemberI haven't votes in 30 years. I'll certainly vote if Corbyn is standing. I'll vote Plaid Cymru if I have to.
So you would vote for Plaid Cymru a party very significantly to the left of the Labour Party presumably because you think the Labour Party is too left-wing ?
I reckon your level of understanding of politics probably explains why you haven't voted for 30 years.
.
Mr Woppit - MemberAs evidenced by most of the left-wing arguments on this thread. Apart from binners......
Binners isn't left-wing, he isn't right-wing, he isn't anything ...... he's just "anti-everything".
I'm surprised you haven't noticed. Don't you read his rants ?
You will let us know if supplies are running low in the bunker, won't you comrade?
Binners it appears you will be first up against the wall come the revolution....
"I reckon your level of understanding of politics probably explains why you haven't voted for 30 years."
😆
"Binners isn't left-wing, he isn't right-wing, he isn't anything ...... he's just "anti-everything"."
I've yet to find out if he is in fact pro-[i]anything[/i]. 🙄
Binners it appears you will be first up against the wall come the revolution....
No you start off by shooting the innocent ones. It terrifies the guilty.
Is this pointless thread still going?
I'm not really paying attention to it, you see....
CaptainFlashheart - MemberI'm not really paying attention to it, you see....
And I can see that you still can't think of anything constructive to say. But I'm strangely not surprised.
Binners isn't left-wing, he isn't right-wing, he isn't anything ...... he's just "anti-everything".
I fear for his sanity.
Not that I'm involved in the imminent bloodbath even in an emotional sense, but IMHO, any leader worth his or her salt would have seen this coming and "lead" the party away from any possibility of the current embarrassment. He's (was) supposed to be leading all the different sections including the PLP.
Unless, of course, Jeremy and his sidekicks intended all along to force the issue to have an ideological spring-clean.
Still won't make the conservative English voters allow them power however, and in that, binners has a point.
I like pies. I'm generally pro-pie! Do we know the bearded messiahs stance on pies? Isn't he a veggie? I bet he thinks a casserole with a puff pastry lid is pie. He looks the type. I could never vote for a man like that
[b]NEVER!!![/b]
I could have posted a half page diatribe, but, like most of the thread, it would have been an utter waste of time.
But hey, as long as you crazy kids are having fun!
I could have posted a half page diatribe, but, like most of the thread, it would have been an utter waste of time.
But presumably you don't think reading half a page of my diatribe is an utter waste of time, which is why you keep clicking on the thread.
Commisar Lynch is currently composing his little red troll book and it has a list....
"I could have posted a half page diatribe, but, like most of the thread, it would have been an utter waste of time."
"But presumably you don't think reading half a page of my diatribe is an utter waste of time, which is why you keep clicking on the thread."
Boom.