Jeremy Corbyn

FN 40.7% (Le-Pen)
UMP 25% (Sarkozy)
PS 18%

A good question, the old FN of 10 years ago it would have been the BNP, now its much more mainstream with a mix of UKIP style nationalistic and socialistic policies. Opponents try to protray FN (and UKIP) as extreme right wing parties but their strategy is far braoder than that. FN have made their bigggest gains in areas which have traditionally voted for the left. In the local elections last year they won councils which had previously been communist as voters switched.

My only rationale for making the comparisons is to point out that underestimating such a threat and/or assuming it will only hurt the traditional right wing parties is a mistake. FN is really hurting the left wing vote

So what happens in France must happen here 😕

Alternatively, you could have a poor memory, inability to count, or extreme reluctance to admit when you're wrong.

If Labour want to form a government Corbyn was absolutely the wrong choice, that's somehting recognised by pretty much all of the senior figures, past and present, in the Labour party. Aside from his Trotskiest policies he never conducted his political career as anyhtung but a protest politician, he took no regard with his statements amd his actions as he never expected to be a leader. As such his cupboard is jam packed with skeletons. As a rebel and political outsider he has very little political support amongst MPs. Having the name badge saying "leader" doesnt mean you are automatically in charge

the vast majority of them don't post regularly or at all on these political threads.

The anonymity of that thread allowed them to do so without feeling public embarrassment. 🙂

jambalaya - Member

i can't think of a single one either where anyone has posted facts to prove me wrong.[/b]

At least twice in this thread alone 😆

@ransos its hard to be wrong in an argument about politics as numerous different views are perfectly legitimate.

You appear to be responding to something I haven't said. But anyway, you keep telling yourself that.

@ransos its hard to be wrong in an argument about politics as numerous different views are perfectly legitimate.

But it's very easy to post a pack of lies. As you consistently prove.

If Labour want to form a government Corbyn was absolutely the wrong choice, that's somehting recognised by pretty much all of the senior figures, past and present, in the Labour party.

So democracy is an illusion then, that's what you're saying effectively?

@ransos its hard to be wrong in an argument about politics as numerous different views are perfectly legitimate.

This is something you fail to understand and then just tell us all how you are alway correct

How many folk are calling you a liar? It may be water of a ducks bath but i am nit sure how many folk need to do it to get you to reflect on the drivel you post on here

Its almost like you wear it a sa badge that numerous folk are basically just saying liar . They are right what you say and what the facts really are are rarely even fleetingly related as this thread and your crass comments on the flooding shows

I dont expect you to change but the reaction is because what you say is often factually wrong and for you to say you are never wrong is either top trolling or desperately., desperately tragic

I suspect ignore your shit and letting grown up chat may be the best response here

jambalaya - Member
I think in 3 years you could count the arguments I've lost / been on the losing side here on the fingers of one hand, ie 4 or less

That is wonderful! 😆

So democracy is an illusion then, that's what you're saying effectively?

No he is not, his sentence has a condition and it has to be read in the context of that condition.

Aside from his Trotskiest policies he never conducted his political career as anyhtung but a protest politician

2) Corbyn is regarded as having been one of the best and most responsive constituency MPs out there. (Let's face it, it's not like ministerial positions have ever taken up much of his time). Do you think that is merely being a protect politician? George Galloway I would consider to be a classic protest politician of no substance.

which exactly are Corbyn's Trotskyite policies?

The non Leninist ones.

And presumably not the ones that he espouses in his regular Morning Star column.

To be fair I doubt that jambalaya really knows what he means by "Trotskiest policies", and simply used the term because he has seen Trotskyist being used as an insult and derogatory term in newspapers such as the Telegraph and Daily Mail.

used as an insult and derogatory term in newspapers such as the Telegraph and Daily Mail.

George Galloway I would consider to be a classic protest politician of no substance.

Are you questioning his indefatigability?

I'd go so far as to suggest he's been fagitated on several occasions.

So democracy is an illusion then, that's what you're saying effectively?

JY no of course whats happemed in France need not happen here but it would seem wise to take note. For the first time ever the North which was a left wing heartland (its the poorest area in France) has voted FN with the socilaists a distant 3rd. Some analysis on TV showed the FN have become the preferred party of the working class in many regions. The FN are anti immigration, anti EU/euro but they have generous welfare proposals - the basic message is this money should go to people who speak the language, embrace the culture and not to incoming foreigners.

George Galloway I would consider to be a classic protest politician of no substance.

You admire him for his skills in manipulating people (I.e. politics) rather than his decency and honesty?

I think the problem here is that your understanding of what politics should be about is different to most of us. You think it's a game to win, don't you?

[quote=jambalaya ]Corbyn is popular with the party faithful, but reinforcing their vote won't win Labour an election. Labour need to win votes in marginal constituencies.And he could do that by engaging with voters who won't turn out for the Tories [i]or[/i] the Blairite Labour party.

And he could do that by engaging with voters who won't turn out for the Tories or the Blairite Labour party

And he could do that by engaging with voters who won't was out for the Tories or the Blairite Labour party.

Nope, "more or less" on Radio four covered that. Not enough voters in the right place for that.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p032804x

Corbyn is popular with the party faithful, but reinforcing their vote won't win Labour an election.

Corbyn being party leader didn't seem to bother voters in Oldham last week, in fact the Labour share of the vote increased. And yes Labour won.

Labour need to win votes in marginal constituencies.

Well that's what you personally claim but like many things that say it isn't necessarily true. Although you would say that wouldn't you.

Personally I don't think Labour needs to "win" votes to get a majority in parliament next general election, certainly not from the Tories.

Unprecedented apathy has descended on British politics in recent decades. What Corbyn needs to do to tilt the next general election in Labour's favour is to energize traditional Labour supporters who no longer bother voting due to the belief that "they're all the same", thanks largely to Tony Blair and New Labour.

And there is some evidence that Corbyn's leadership has energized politics - in two ways in fact imo.

Firstly the Oldham by-election showed some re-energizing of politics. Some feel that the 40% turnout was disappointing but in fact it was a very good turnout for a December by-election in a safe Labour seat.

Almost exactly 3 years ago when Ed Miliband was Labour leader there was a by-election not far away from Oldham in the safe Labour seat of Manchester Central, the turnout on that occasion was 18%, less than half the turnout in Oldham.

And the high Oldham turnout resulted in Labour getting a higher share of the vote - it seems very much that Labour supporters felt motivated despite the almost certainty of a Labour win.

Secondly, tens of thousands have joined the Labour Party since Corbyn became leader, the importance of troops on the ground during the election campaign and on election day cannot be over emphasized imo. Getting out your vote on election day can easily tilt a marginal seat in your favour.

Furthermore we now know that Labour Party members have a leader which they overwhelming support and believe in, probably for the first time in a very long time.

Large numbers of highly motivated and committed activists who see something which they can believe in, and feel is worth fighting for, are likely to achieve a different result to a handful of demoralized activists.

I have no idea if Labour will the general election in 2020 but I do believe that it isn't necessary to impress Tory voters that Labour make better Tories to win.

Not enough voters in the right place for that.

😆

EDIT : Do you understand what a Tory-Labour marginal means?

It means that there are a great deal of Labour voters.

And that it is vital from them to get out and vote on election day if Labour are to win. If not all as many as possible

What Corbyn needs to do to tilt the next general election in Labour's favour is to energize traditional Labour supporters who no longer bother voting

Some facts:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p032804x

Aside from his Trotskiest policies he never conducted his political career as anyhtung but a protest politician

1) which exactly are Corbyn's Trotskyite policies?

great conviction

Thanks outofbreath but I don't need to be told how important it is to get your supporters to actually vote on election day, I already know. And I've seen the result of success and failure.

It means that there are a great deal of Labour voters.

There are a great deal of Labour voters, this is true. 9,347,304 of them at the last national count.

However, Scotroutes was talking about "non-voters".

@ernie all good points the counter argument in Oldham where indeed the turnout was excellent for a by-election, was that Labour voters where 1) keen to endorse Corbyn and/or 2) terrified of a disastrous loss. In the end who knows and it was a very solid hold

Thanks outofbreath but I don't need to be told how important it is to get your supporters to actually vote on election day, I already know.

...when pre-conceived ideas meet facts.

..when pre-conceived ideas meet facts.

I think you'll find that it is a "fact" that if you manage to get 80% of your supporters to vote on election day you are more likely to win that if you only manage to get 70% of your supporters to vote, whatever some geezer on the BBC might have said.

I think the mistake of that BBC programme was to assume that middle class areas don't house a large number of disenfranchised voters.

Unfortunately I live in a tory stronghold 🙁 - my vote power is 0.1%

Unfortunately I live in a tory stronghold - my vote power is 0.1%

Do you really want to live in one of the red bits? 😯

[img] [/img]

[quote=konabunny spake unto the masses, saying][i]Aside from his Trotskiest policies he never conducted his political career as anyhtung but a protest politician[/i]
1) which exactly are Corbyn's Trotskyite policies?

He said "Trotskiest" politicies. I assume they are the ones Trotskier than all his other policies

Do you really want to live in one of the red bits?

Red bits are home, wish I was there now.

Do you really want to live in one of the red bits?

I already do. It's lovely.

I said it right near the beginning of this thread that for Labour to win the next election Tory voters have to move to Labour the data is clear. Yet ernie still won't go and crunch the data. Marginal seats matter most everyone knows it, apart from seemingly Corbyn and his supporters.

Do you really want to live in one of the red bits?

To be honest, where I live is very similar to those places, it's just that the political boundaries tie us in with Prestbury/Tytherington/Poynton
If I lived 500yds to the east I would have a voting power of 0.4 in a seat that changed from Lab to Con in 2010

If you overlay those red bits on the wilder parts of Britain, then I would say those are my ideal places to live.

Free of trolls though

The red bits are all inner city hell holes.