Jeremy Corbyn

...as far as I know, they are also Politicians

Of course, but politicians, as a class, are not responsible for the consequences of bombing Syria. That is for the individuals who vote for that bombing and the leaders who propose it. JC is not part of either of those groups so attempting to smear him by association is pure dishonesty.

I think you might be overestimating their integrity and loyalty to the party - look at how much damage they are doing to Labour right now.

Well any naivety I might have had, which is not much, has just been well and truly destroyed by reading this morning about some anti-Corbyn MP who has leaked a secret recording of a pro-Corbyn MP from last night's PLP meeting. There really are no depths to which they will not sink is there?

Unlike that Jeremy Corbyn!!

[img] [/img]

Where have you read that dazh?

Where have you read that dazh?

Actually I should correct myself there but I can't edit it now. There was something on the guardian's live feed this morning but it would appear it was a recording of someone speaking after the meeting not during it, so not quite as bad as I made out.

The point still stands though, that the behaviour of many anti-Corbyn MPs has been beyond the pale, and in direct conflict with the interests of the party. Add to that the willing collusion of supposedly left-leaning media outlets such as the guardian who also seem more interested in damaging Corbyn than the tories and what we have is the perfect storm. It was bad enough when they were imitating the tories, now they're doing their job for them. And yet they have the cheek to blame Corbyn, like their actions are merely incidental.

Yep, that's all I could find too. This quote from Clive Lewis:

If there are members of the PLP that want to bomb in Syria and vote with the Tories, on their heads be it. They have made that decision. I respect that decision, in the sense that they have come to the conclusion they have. But ultimately if the war in Syria extends, if there’s a conflagration, there are more terrorist atrocities, if the war extends with no end, then obviously we will be looking at who voted for this, and when the blame’s apportioned, it’s their fault.

he guardian who also seem more interested in damaging Corbyn than the tories

I am so mad at this I can't describe, incandescent, that these idiots are flying in the face of public opinion.

There needs to be a list of all and any labour MP's that vote for this and they should face deselection, I can't imagine the voters in their constituencies are in favour of bombing any of Syria or Iraq, it is such a cowardly political sop.

And what is with the Grauniad? Where has this anti Corbyn hatred come from, is it Dianne Abbot related I wonder, she hasn't helped herself over the years.

It's worth watching yesterday's Daily Politics if you haven't already for a good illustration of what's going on.

The middle section with Dan Hodges frothing at the mouth, Rachel Shabi rising above it and Jo Coburn choosing sensationalism and controversy over actually letting people debate the issues.

The guardian who also seem more interested in damaging Corbyn than the tories

They do absolutely hate him on there for some reason

Maybe its a local matter? He is the MP for where they all have their £3 million London townhouses. When they're not at their Tuscan holiday homes.

Maybe its about bin collections?

I am so mad at this I can't describe, incandescent, that these idiots are flying in the face of public opinion.

There needs to be a list of all and any labour MP's that vote for this and they should face deselection, I can't imagine the voters in their constituencies are in favour of bombing any of Syria or Iraq, it is such a cowardly political sop.

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/11/25/strong-and-continued-support-raf-air-strikes-syria/

The guardian who also seem more interested in damaging Corbyn than the tories

They do absolutely hate him on there for some reason

Could it be something to do with [url= http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Controlled+opposition ]controlled opposition[/url]?

There seems to be a collective amnesia that we are already bombing Deash in Iraq on behalf of the Iraqi government,

If there are members of the PLP that want to bomb in Syria and vote with the Tories, on their heads be it. They have made that decision. I respect that decision, in the sense that they have come to the conclusion they have. But ultimately if the war in Syria extends, if there’s a conflagration, there are more terrorist atrocities, if the war extends with no end, then obviously we will be looking at who voted for this, and when the blame’s apportioned, it’s their fault

The biggest problem I see for Corbyn is that on the international stage he is a non-entity and doesn't seem to have any real momentum or idea's that will either negate the argument for bombing or mean that there is a "post bombing" plan for Syria

I also don't think the political polarisation of the debate is helping anyone, it's not a left/ right issue and there are good arguments just to step up what we are doing now in support of the French, Russians, Iranians, Turks etc etc. and drive the diplomacy to come up with a viable plan for the defeat of Deash and the creation of a peaceful future for the region. There are probably good arguments to bomb parts of Syria occupied by Deash as well but there doesn't seem to be a shortage of planes with bombs at the moment.

There seems to be a collective amnesia that we are already bombing Deash in Iraq on behalf of the Iraqi government

It will be interesting to see which MP's vote for and against... do we think the Labour 'For' voters will be representing the people who voted for them?

this is only an issue of where we bomb them, not if.

it's only a matter of time before JC gets pinned down on the current bombing campaign and whether he is "for" or "against"

he needs to avoid that question before the by-election on Thursday or there could be a doubling of UKIP MP's

[quote=bluehelmet said]I am so mad at this I can't describe, incandescent, that these idiots are flying in the face of public opinion.

Radio4 reporting "public opinion" 2 to 1 for Syrian strikes.

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/11/25/strong-and-continued-support-raf-air-strikes-syria/

*whisper* Tom Watson *whisper*

Maybe its a local matter? He is the MP for where they all have their £3 million London townhouses.

[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/labour-mps-allowed-to-vote-with-consciences-they-abandoned-long-ago-20151201104362 ]summed up nicely by the Mash[/url]

And konabunny - you took your bloody time. You southerners are no fun any more 😀

We all know that Guardian journalists don't live in £3 million pound Islington townhouses! Thats just sooooooo New Labour. They rent them out, and have now bought entire streets in Brixton. Its just so edgy walking to get hummous from the new organic, fair-trade workers co-operative*

* The word 'workers' is used figuratively in this instance, not in reference to those who need to work to sustain a lifestyle of overpriced vegan restaurants and spending long weekends in Madrid researching their novel, but to denote people who, while independently wealthy, 'work' by writing a vaguely left leaning column once a week, when not in Tuscany

Hi....

[img] [/img]

Wow Binners, it appears that you have finally come to the conclusion that the Labour party is led by the bourgeoisie - and only ninety five years after Lenin said it, congratulations!

Lenin lived in Islington (Percy Circus).

Did he meet Corbyn?

Oi leave Monbiot alone, he's one of the good guys! Toynbee, Freedland, White et al you can have, but not Mombiot. He may be uber-middle class, but he's no establishment apologist.

[i] mt - Member

Did he meet Corbyn? [/i]

I think Lenin met Corbyn's mother, once.....

Corbyn and Lenin fell out over whether there should be a horoscope in [i]Iskra[/i]

This thread appears to have taken a turn for the better without me, I'm not jumping to any hasty conclusions though.

Marx liked North London so much he stayed there permanently. Much of central London is Labour due to high amounts of social/council housing and a significant amount of the private property lived in by foreigners who cannot vote

JY I think the Guardian "hates" Corbyn as they want to see the Labour Party have a chance of winning an election and form a Government

I think the Guardian "hates" Corbyn as they want to see the Labour Party have a chance of winning an election and form a Government

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/may/04/general-election-newspaper-support

Junkyard - lazarus

The guardian who also seem more interested in damaging Corbyn than the tories

They do absolutely hate him on there for some reason

I disagree. I would expect the Guardian to hate Corbyn for much the same reasons that I hate the Guardian's bourgeois pontificating claptrap editorials/comment, however although I very rarely ever read the their editorials/comment the occasional cursory glance has surprised me.

In fact I was stunned by the Guardian's leader the day after John McDonnell's Conference speech - it was surprisingly sympathetic. And today's leader appears from the headline (I didn't read it) to argue the case against air strikes in Syria, which puts it closer to Corbyn than some Labour MPs.

@JY - maybe they just wanted to see [b]anyone[/b] left of centre in power, and back the people most likely to achieve that?

would you prefer they backed the (no chance of winning) Greens or SWP, just to enhance their lefty credentials?

(edit to answer Ernie's question below)

You talking to me ninfan?

allthepies - Member
bluehelmet said » I am so mad at this I can't describe, incandescent, that these idiots are flying in the face of public opinion.
Radio4 reporting "public opinion" 2 to 1 for Syrian strikes.

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/11/25/strong-and-continued-support-raf-air-strikes-syria/
br />

Sorry conspiracy theories are my thing, here ask youselves this if you're wondering who might be behind attempts to discredit our jeremy, he has been asking questions in the house regarding the supply of kit to build un manned drones to Israel, if ever there was an outfit with the black arts of PR covered, Israel is it.

Lenin lived in Islington (Percy Circus).

And Hitler lived in Liverpool.

And Hitler lived in Liverpool.

Which explains why the Nazis only made a short half-arsed attempt to invade England?

They bombed our chippy etc

[i] ernie_lynch - Member
And Hitler lived in Liverpool.[/i]

Still does, according to some. Apparently he also kept a subterranean bachelor pad in Berlin.

Now, more than ever, this thread needs JHJ's pictorial input.

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

Damn I'm good to you guys

Too obtuse for me jhj

Corbyn has zero chance of winning a GE, the PLP know this as they have experience of getting elected. Pretty much the entire Labour hierarchy pointed this out during the campaign.

The party faithful plus all those £3 voters who are not the faithful need to understand that their standard bearer is going to fail to deliver on his signature issue. His replacement as chairman of Stop the War has been highly critical of him today too.

the PLP know this as they have experience of getting elected.

Yeah that worked a treat the last two times! 😀

Honestly, are you really suggesting that the mid-90s new labour strategy for winning elections is still valid? The main experience the PLP have is of furthering their own political careers by adjusting their 'beliefs' to whatever they think will gain them most advantage. I have no doubt most of them are only in the labour party as at the beginning of their careers they judged labour as the best bet for them to get into parliament. Had the tables been turned they'd almost certainly now be in the tory party.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/dec/02/labour-mps-deselection-threats-syria-vote-stella-creasy-diana-johnson

“The level of abuse over the last four months is on a totally, totally different scale from anything ever before. It is directly linked to people purporting to support Jeremy,”

Certainly matches my experience.

Honestly, are you really suggesting that the mid-90s new labour strategy for winning elections is still valid?

Yeah. Still valid.

Are you saying Corbyn's policies appeal to a minority of extreme nutters?

Is there a poll for this?

it's only a matter of time before JC gets pinned down on the current bombing campaign and whether he is "for" or "against"

@molgrips as many of us have said the centre ground wins UK elections and Corbyn is way way off to the left of the centre ground. As such his policies do not appeal to the majority.