Jeremy Corbyn

That dumb underclass now has other sources of information and can spot gross lies and deceit much easier.

...looked at Facebook much?

johnx2 - Member
'Blairite Red Tory methodology'
anyone who doesn't support corbyn is a 'blairite'?

That's who introduced the Red Tories to the party, so it's only fair he gets the naming rights.

johnx2 - Member
'That dumb underclass now has other sources of information and can spot gross lies and deceit much easier.'
...looked at Facebook much?

Like the STW ads, what you see on FaceBook tends to reflect what your interests are. What point are you making?

I don't know why the angle is that Corbyn is unelectable.

Because whilst he naturally appeals to the relatively far left side of the labour party, he's left the central ground clear for other parties to move in. He's doing nothing to win back the previous labour voters that moved across to UKIP and he's failing put across his policies.

Where he has been successful is in engaging with the young and there is a concerted effort to put across his message through social media. Unfortunately that's a group that is notoriously bad at actually voting as seen by the turnout at something as significant a the referendum.

epicyclo - Member
I don't know why the angle is that Corbyn is unelectable.

By his own supporters admission he can't get the media to successfully represent his views

There you go, as per, a pretty disgusting attitude from the media. There is no such thing as un-biased media.

mrhoppy - Member
'I don't know why the angle is that Corbyn is unelectable.'
Because whilst he naturally appeals to the relatively far left side of the labour party, he's left the central ground clear for other parties to move in. He's doing nothing to win back the previous labour voters that moved across to UKIP and he's failing put across his policies...

Then why are so many people joining the party to support him? It seems to me he's winning the grassroots battle but doesn't have a hope with those believing the MSM.

The reason I think he will succeed is because I think the message will filter up from the grassroots as we have seen in Scotland with the SNP. It has faced a far more hostile media (almost 100%) and yet now enjoys unprecedented support plus a far larger voter participation rate.

That dumb underclass now has other sources of information and can spot gross lies and deceit much easier.

Have you just missed the past month or so?

How about everyone steps back and takes a deep breath. Then have a new clear headed look at a party where 80% of MPs say they have no faith in the leader. And then think about it....

Then why are so many people joining the party to support him? It seems to me he's winning the grassroots battle but doesn't have a hope with those believing the MSM.

But picking up a few thousand people (and at the same time potentially losing others) isn't going to win a general election.

How about everyone steps back and takes a deep breath. Then have a new clear headed look at a party where 80% of MPs say they have no faith in the leader. And then think about it..

You cannot be in a democratic party and represent it if you also think you can ignore the clear will of the membership

Is that what you were after?

epicyclo - Member
I think the message will filter up from the grassroots as we have seen in Scotland with the SNP.

😕 i don't think there is a more top down party in the UK! 😆

You cannot be in a democratic party and represent it if you also think you can ignore the clear will of the membership

So David Cameron shouldn't have legalised Gay Marriage?

teamhurtmore - Member
How about everyone steps back and takes a deep breath. Then have a new clear headed look at a party where 80% of MPs say they have no faith in the leader. And then think about it....

I have and I still come to the conclusion it's the right of the party(and a complicit media) are unwilling to give a platform to the left in anyway shape or form.

If Corbyn wins and there isn't a split, they'll have another leadership contest in a years time. nothing surer.

ninfan - Member
You cannot be in a democratic party and represent it if you also think you can ignore the clear will of the membership
So David Cameron shouldn't have legalised Gay Marriage?

If he wanted to keep his job, probably not. 😆

You cannot be in a democratic party and represent it if you also think you can ignore the clear will of the membership

You can challenge the leadership through the process set out in the guidelines which is what appears to be happening. The membership then gets to vote. If that is unsuccessful then fair enough, but in that instance I think you may end up with a permanent schism leading to either a whole new (potentially fairly well funded) centre left party, or MPs crossing the floor potentially to the lib Dems.

They were chosen to stand as Labour MPs and if they cannot represent the values of the party, as expressed by the membership, then they need to resign from the party and the house and see if the voters support them still

Anything else is just ignoring democracy.

You can challenge the leadership through the process set out in the guidelines

Its a ****ing mess and no mistake but this idea that the PLP are somehow squeaky clean or the ones Labour needs to listen to needs to be bashed on the head immediately.

It wont end well I agree and all that is happening is that battle lines are being drawn, RW trolls are frothing, and Binners is livid.

"I have and I still come to the conclusion it's the right of the party(and a complicit media) are unwilling to give a platform to the left in anyway shape or form."

Lending their nominations to give the hard Left a platform is exactly what moderate Labour MPs did!

Junkyard - lazarus

[b]"Its all very Taliban-esque".[/b]

FFS Binners that is like when Fox news claimed their were Muslim areas of the Uk where white folk could not go and the police never ventured

Its **** all like the Taliban. When someone turns up at your house and kills you , then burns the house to the ground then sells your kids into slavery....then we can talk about that

FFS man get a bloody grip

It was me that binners was accusing of behaving like the Taliban !

binners - Member

Like Ernie denouncing me as a posh boy (saying I went to 'a posh middle class school with a cabinet minister- it was a comprehensive in Warrington with Andy Burnham FFS!!!) , so he can dismiss my opinions too. Its all very Taliban-esque.

Just when I think binners rants can't possibly get more absurd I open the thread and find a little gem like that 🙂

And I've definitely hit a raw nerve by accusing him of being middle-class. I mean how can he be - he's a northerner!!

Binners is quick to dismiss anyone who supports Corbyn of being middle-class but because he sees it as an insult he really doesn't like it when he is accused of being middle-class himself.

[img] [/img]

"They don't like it up 'em Captain Mainwaring"

And binners there are plenty of comprehensive schools in posh middle-class areas - like the one you obviously went to. Not all posh kids can into grammar schools.

They were chosen to stand as Labour MPs and if they cannot represent the values of the party, as expressed by the membership, then they need to resign from the party and the house and see if the voters support them still

[i]This organisation shall be known as ‘The Labour Party’ (hereinafter referred to as ‘the party’). Its purpose is to organise and maintain in Parliament and in the country a political Labour Party.[/i]

I can't see how wanting to retain their seats conflicts with clause 1 paragraph 1 of the constitution?

I have and I still come to the conclusion it's the right of the party(and a complicit media) are unwilling to give a platform to the left in anyway shape or form.

Yes always a good trick to blame others. The simple and obvious answer that Corbyn just might be crap at leading the party is far too straightforward.

It's all a conspiracy against an honest, loyal and conviction politician and leader.

Ooh, we're getting the rule book out are we ?

Try :

Clause 4 - Aims and Values

[b]1 The Labour Party is a democratic socialist party.[/b]

You have to be a socialist to be in the Labour Party.

According to the rules.

You have to be a socialist to be in the Labour Party.

According to the rules.

Actually, you don't, see chapter 2

(Otherwise, surely you would have thrown Blair and Mandelson out) 😀

Socialist? To be fair they did nationalise most of the UK banks last time they were in power. Bet that's more than JC ever nationalises.

Did the media misrepresent

Him voting against the Labour Party 500 times
Dozens of senior figures from the Labour Party saying he would be a disaster as Leader
The vote on Syria going against his wishes with Benn delivering an outstanding speech
Momentum activist at centre of OULB investigation getting a top job in Corbyn's advisory team
Corbyn blogging and speaking extensively against the EU followed by
Corbyns shambolic half (third ?) hearted campaigning for Remain including the 7.5/10 remark
80% of Labour MPs voting "no confidence"
Baxter in tears after Momentum intimidation

To be honest he hasn't offered a single policy of note since he became leader as far as I can see. As for "new gentler politics" reality is quite the opposite. Very Stalin-esque

Membership ? The Labour Party have no real idea who the vast majority of these new "members" are, whether they really have the interests of the Labour Party at heart.

Thm, yip it clearly is a conspiracy! 😆 Has been from day 1. How you can argue against that ill never know.

Btw I view this from a fairly neutral perspective, I have no vested interest in the english labour party, just calling it as I see it.

Stalin-esque. 😆

Tooting Popular Front-esque?

Conspiracy? Comedy more like, yes from day 1

Except not having an effective opposition is not funny nor is the reemergence of the nasty underbelly. It was bad enough with all the xenophobia coming out of the closet.

I must admit I haven't heard of the English Labour Party? I assume that it does exist rather than that being a parochial Scottish view?

seosamh77 - Member
...Btw I view this from a fairly neutral perspective, I have no vested interest in the english labour party, just calling it as I see it.

My interest is because I regard a Corbyn Labour Party cleaned out of the Blairites as the only hope for a resurgence in the Party in Scotland.

I do not want to see that happen yet. After Scotland dissolves the Union then that's different.

Well the Scottish labour party are an utter freelance so...

The only purpose of an effective opposition is to get themselves elected. Youse are well overplaying their importance. When a government has a majority it can be no other way. It can only have an effect during inter party squabbles. Which to Tories re decent enough at avoiding.

@binners...just want to apologise for my last post (this morning) addressed to you... differences of opinion or not it shouldn't descend into rudeness.

Sorry Joe, still not clear about this English Labour Party.

Same as any of the unionist parties, they are subservient to the english dominance. Just a matter of fact. Not really a lot to get..

Well does it (the English Labour Party) actually exist Joe?

How about our friends in say Wales or NI - are they not relevant?

Good post EVB - poor old binns was copping quite a lot of flak.

cleaned out of

interesting choice of phrase 😯

teamhurtmore - Member
Well does it (the English Labour Party) actually exist Joe?

How about our friends in say Wales or NI - are they not relevant?

What point you trying to make here? spit it out.

Wales and NI can make up their own mind.

poor old binns was copping quite a lot of flak.

I cannot speak for the man but i dont think he was phased by it.
I will ask him next week if i can be arsed riding that slowly 😉

Jo - you said

Btw I view this from a fairly neutral perspective, I have no vested interest in the english labour party,

and my question was simple - is there such a thing as the english labour party? Why is that so hard to answer 😉 ?

Not a fan of Owen but his concluding para today was interesting

Unless these questions are answered, Labour is reduced to an ineffective pressure group. Socialism without power is slogans: a mild irritation at worst, a source of bemusement at best to a Conservative government that can do as it wishes. Principle and power are not mutually exclusive. Corbyn’s team and his opponents both have to demonstrate how.

should we hold our breath?

It's not. Yes, is the answer. Next question. 😉

Any links? 😉

I can only find a wider Labour Party. How do you join the English one?

(only joshin 'cos we all know its nothing about being anti-English - these slips juts happen by accident dont they!!)

Well I've spent the afternoon gently dabbing my eyes with my lacy hanky*. I'm big and daft enough to look after myself and not gather up my petticoats for a flounce.

I do find it quite amusing I was being accused of being a 'posh boy' going to a 'posh middle class rural school'. Rural? In Warrington? Seriously? 😆

I doubt that 'posh boy' accusation would withstand more than a couple of seconds of meeting me and observing how frightfully uncouth I am.

I would however pay good money to watch the keyboard warriors on this thread level the 'posh boy' accusation at some of the lads I went to my 'posh middle class rural school' with, while stood within punching distance. 😀

* this is not a euphemism

I do find it quite amusing I was being accused of being a 'posh boy' going to a 'posh middle class rural school'. Rural? In Warrington? Seriously?

Its an oft used tactic, binns. Make something up about someone/make up something they said etc so you can have an argue about something they are not/haven't said.

Its rather sad isn't it...

Glad you are back!! Keep posting - no clear outs here!!

Nothing about being anti English in the slightest, however much you would like it to be. It's simply a pragmatic look at who [i]I think[/i] has scotlands best interests at heart, parties rooted in scotland or parties rooted in the union.

Call that anti-English if it plays to your agenda if you like. Doesn't make it true. 😉

"Parties rooted in the union" - thats better. Don't forget our Welsh and NI friends.

The union is a matter of perception, you will find that out soon enough. 😉

.

I doubt that 'posh boy' accusation would withstand more than a couple of seconds of meeting me and observing how frightfully uncouth I am.

I would however pay good money to watch the keyboard warriors on this thread level the 'posh boy' accusation at some of the lads I went to my 'posh middle class rural school' with, while stood within punching distance.

The union is a matter of perception, you will find that out soon enough.

😀

May be, may be not. But as this past month has shown - be very careful what you wish for!

(what has happened to access to education for the less advantaged in Scotland BTW?)

teamhurtmore - Member

I can only find a wider Labour Party. How do you join the English one?

It's an assumption many Scots make because we have been continually told we have a Scottish Labour Party and the SLP cry and get upset if we say it's just the Labour Party.

So knowing the likes of Jim Murphy to be icons of veracity we assume that a big place like England must surely have its own exclusively English Labour Party. You'll note that we did our level best to make it so at the GE. 🙂

As for the Irish and Welsh, they're fine sturdy people, so whatever arrangement they have is up to them.

I'm not going to fight the SNPs corner. 😉

Still they are preferable to becoming the 51st state and having to put up with the tories for the next 400 years. 😆

Good to read and know epic. I am sure the next time that someone equates GB or UK with England, no tartan heckles will be raised. 😉

Assumptions are dangerous wee beasties at times though aren't they!!

Anyway back to our old friend Jezza - he's not really relevant in Scotland any more is he?

Next time there's a danger of the SNP proping up a labour government, we can all be sure the tories will romp home. Why do you think that may be, thm? 😉

does that need an edit? I haven't been on the 80 bob yet...

Nope.

ok, may be a need a pint to understand it then. Hang on....

take your time. 😉

You seem to have answered the English Labour Party Qn. There is no such thing, nor is there and English LibDems or Conservative Party. There is only one for the United Kingdom.

@dazh - effective oppostion, I would add to @seaso's comment below that by challenging the government they are demonstrating that they would be a credible alternative government and on occasion they would hope to modify or stop legislation they felt was wrong by encouraging members of the majority government to vote against it.

The only purpose of an effective opposition is to get themselves elected

On this point we all know how Corbyn's doing, if he does survive the summer I just wonder how awful are going to be these totally inexperienced Shadow cabinet members assuming more of them don't throw in the towel.

on the effective opposition point, i also strikes me that there's no election till 2020 apparently, so what's the rush then, labour can take their time with the leadership contest.

You seem to have answered the English Labour Party Qn. There is no such thing,

Really? 😉 That does surprise. I can put my £25 back in my pocket then!!

Has Jezza filled the shadow cabinet yet?

labour can take their time with the leadership contest.

That's a relief

Politics, not just the union is perception. I'm sure after the last 4 years of utter nonsense, we can all agree that? 😆

Next time there's a danger of the SNP proping up a labour government, we can all be sure the tories will romp home. Why do you think that may be, thm?

SNP are poisenous South of the border, broadly understood to be rabidly anti-English and as we have seen despite saying they would not interfere in English only matters have already done so. Seen here to be very dishonest and untrustworthy. On TV again amd again b.tchi g and moaning despite being net recipients under the Barnett formula. As such the thought of them being in a coalition with the Labour Party is enough to swing ample voters to Tories or LibDems. If the SNP just got on with managing Scotland under their devolved Parliament it wouldn't be like this but they show no signs of changing. If as I expect the Tories win big in 2020 then perhaps they'll adopt a different tactic or their support will have waned as Scots realise an SNP vote at a General Election is a wasted vote

labour can take their time with the leadership contest.
That's a relief

being serious for a moment, from a labour perspective it really is, despite all the hysteria, holidays coming up soon and the reall questions on brexit aren't going to surface for a while, so yes it probably is the case.

They'll need to get their act together fairly sharpish soon after though. basically i'd reckon they've 6 months to get their shit together, or they really are doomed.

jambalaya - Member
Next time there's a danger of the SNP proping up a labour government, we can all be sure the tories will romp home. Why do you think that may be, thm?
SNP are poisenous South of the border, broadly understood to be rabidly anti-English and as we have seen despite saying they would not interfere in English only matters have already done so. Seen here to be very dishonest and untrustworthy. On TV again amd again b.tchi g and moaning despite being net recipients under the Barnett formula. As such the thought of them being in a coalition with the Labour Party is enough to swing ample voters to Tories or LibDems. If the SNP just got on with managing Scotland under their devolved Parliament it wouldn't be like this but they show no signs of changing. If as I expect the Tories win big in 2020 then perhaps they'll adopt a different tactic or their support will have waned as Scots realise an SNP vote at a General Election is a wasted vote

I'm watching series 2 of the Thick of It. In comparison to what's going on today, it's like a big warm fwuffy comfort blanket.

"Feet off the furniture! You're not on a punt now you Oxbridge ****! "

you have a complete inability to look at anything other than from your own perspective, don't ye

The scots no more hate the english than you hate the europeans [ well the non muslim ones anyway]oh and the ones that are over here Ironically as you sit over there 😉

binners - Member

Well I've spent the afternoon gently dabbing my eyes with my lacy hanky*. I'm big and daft enough to look after myself and not gather up my petticoats for a flounce.

I do find it quite amusing I was being accused of being a 'posh boy' going to a 'posh middle class rural school'. Rural? In Warrington? Seriously?

I doubt that 'posh boy' accusation would withstand more than a couple of seconds of meeting me and observing how frightfully uncouth I am.

I would however pay good money to watch the keyboard warriors on this thread level the 'posh boy' accusation at some of the lads I went to my 'posh middle class rural school' with, while stood within punching distance.

You are extraordinarily defensive when you are accused of being middle-class binners, it's as if it's the worst possible insult. Why do you hate the middle-classes so much?

It makes no sense, specially as you are so clearly middle-class. As a manual building worker educated to CSE standard and living in rented accommodation in Croydon it would amuse me greatly if I was called middle-class. I've been called "a bit posh" on building sites because I sometimes read the Guardian in my tea breaks, seriously. It makes me chuckle, I've never taken it as an insult - I usually agree with them and say "I'm right proper posh".

Anyway yeah, I reckon you're middle-class. But I only said it because a few months ago that's what you were accusing people of not supporting Corbyn of being. I had no idea your reaction would be to accuse me of trying to silence you and of acting like the Taliban 🙂

I'll remind you again what you said a few months ago :

binners - Member

I do love the Guardian as it's still the most entertaining paper out there. I still buy it every day. But it does amuse me the labour cheerleading from Polly Toynbee and her ilk, sending us the view of what british politics looks like from Tuscany. Or from their 3 million quid Islington pads. It's apt really, as they're as clueless as the Labour Party for much the same reason.

It's no wonder they've come out against Corbyn. He's as terrifying and alien to them as someone northern, working class, or scottish. They like to stay in their nice, comfortable, upper middl class, bollocks-talking, London-centric metropolitan bubble, just like the Labour Party

I bet you've been to Tuscany haven't you? Is it nice ?

And I still don't understand why you think going to a comprehensive school makes you working-class, do all middle-class kids get into grammar schools then? Was your school "well'ard" ?

U OK HON? Xx

As a manual building worker educated to CSE standard and living in rented accommodation in Croydon

Oh! I see. There is one among us that is more worthy than all of us.

Four legs good, two legs better...

It's Hun down south. Is Hon how working-class people pronounce it?

I've got that right haven't I ....... everyone up north is working-class right? Like everyone who went to a comprehensive school.

EDIT: I can't stop chuckling........."I'm working-class, I went to a comprehensive school" !!! 😆

Oh! I see. There is one among us that is more worthy than all of us.

Four legs good, two legs better...

😀

I grew up in a council flat as a one parent family getting free school meals

What do I win...please say its alenin style hat as I reckon that will look lovely on my head

The old school divides of who and what was and is working class are to some degree broken.
I am degree educated and teacher so therefore middle class. i live in a terrace house and therefore I am working class. I have attributes of both classes but I do not for a second consider myself middle class.

[b]Check your privilege[/b] before commenting further on the thread then

everyone up north is working-class right?

[img] [/img]

Does everyone need to list 'their struggle' - brother killed in a police cell because he was black, or whatever, before they're allowed to express an opinion?

You sum up everything that's brilliant about the Corbyn Labour Party

Well done.

Back in the political Stone Age (12 months ago) I had high hopes for tge new approach offered by Corbyn. This far down the line it's difficult to express in words how catastrophically he's ****ed it up.

It's difficult to imagine how he could have possibly managed to do it any worse.

He's a die-hard right wing Tory's wet dream. Surely the benchmark for any labour leader?

Keep waving that little red flag that proves you're authentic Bruv. And as to the three terms of tory rule youve ushered in? A price worh paying comrade?
[img] [/img]

I am degree educated and teacher so therefore middle class.

Never mind about that.....did you go to a comprehensive school and do you live up north? The Taliban wants to know.

Back in the political Stone Age (12 months ago) I had high hopes for tge new approach offered by Corbyn. This far down the line it's difficult to express in words how catastrophically he's ****ed it up.

I'm not criticising you for changing your mind, why shouldn't you?

I'm just pointing out that you accuse people who don't agree with you of being middle-class. First it was everyone who didn't support Corbyn was middle-class, and now everyone who supports Corbyn, because you no longer do, is middle-class.

I just thought I would join in and call [i]you[/i] middle-class. Big mistake apparently. You went to a comprehensive school 🙂

Never mind about that.....did you go to a comprehensive school and do you live up north? The Taliban wants to know.

yes just like your namesake you have lists for the show trials

left wing politics today

Alice Perry, an Islington councillor and one of the local government reps on the NEC, detailed how party staff were spat at during a weekend party meeting in Brighton. She added that she and others had received death threats and rape threats. And Perry said it was time the leadership and Momentum took real action to stamp out the intimidation by those using their name.

Another local government rep Ann Lucas said her home window had been smashed. MP Shabana Mahmood said she’d been made to fear for her life. NEC member Johanna Baxter revealed how her personal mobile number had been put online by critics. Corbyn, Unite’s Jennie Formby and Jon Trickett all came up to the women during a break in the meeting to express their concern at the intimidation.

how many incidents during the recent conservative party leadership change?

Hon

He's addressing you as the son of a Lord, I believe.

Good point.

Let's not comment about what an unmitigated disaster Corbyn has been, and continues to be. Let's turn our fire in those who dare to criticise the Glorious Leader

Theresa May must be laughing her tits off. But as long as the Labour Party is 'authentic' and 'real' then it's ok, right? Totally unelectable, but keeping it real!

Sounds like the very personification of middle class self indulgence to me

I was going to offer biscuits But i suspect canape [ I have no idea what these actually are FWIW] and hummus- I make my own FWIW- are more the order of the day

The cpt probably has the wine order covered and Binner s the beer - i bets its something poncey from a micro brewery though.

mefty - Member
Hon
He's addressing you as the son of a Lord, I believe.

Let's not comment about what an unmitigated disaster Corbyn has been, and continues to be. Let's turn our fire in those who dare to criticise the Glorious Leader

Normally the LW solution to this kind of thing. Surpress dissent or what was the phrase earlier - clean out the Blairites!

Good to keep your SOH in the face of such arsey behaviour!! Bravo.

Binners, who's your choice for labour leader?