Jeremy Corbyn

So Binners you are angry at J.C because of Brexit and you want him to try and appeal to the voters who have concerns over immigration and the E.U.

Ernie admit it, you've just basically been supporting Corbyn as a vehicle for some silly "revolutionary strategy”. Or have you actually renounced your well publicised self-confessed Marxist beliefs? I don't believe your utraleft sect will blossom, and to most lefties you're a wolf in sheep's clothing.

How about you dont lecture poeple on what the left think and I wont lecture you on what th far right think

Deal?

This was mentioned elsewhere... We hear how Corbyn failed to bring Labour voters round to Brexit, and how Labour voters are taking us out. But 63% of Labour voters voted to Remain. So far from Labour voters taking us out, it's simply that as a whole they didn't do quite enough to keep us in. This is similiar to a drink driver blaming their mates for not stopping them. Blame (if blame is how you see it) lies not with the people who nearly stopped something but didn't; it lies with the people who actually did it. Pretty simple stuff I'd have thought.

63% sounds low? How about 64%? That's the proportion of SNP voters that voted Remain. Which is why all those people are blaming Nicola Sturgeon for Brexit and insisting she resign. 1% is the difference between being a disaster of a leader and an unstoppable political force apparently.

CaptainFlashheart - Member
Surely the focus should be on those who might vote Labour, as opposed to those who would slavishly vote for a dog turd if it had a red rosette on it?

Personally, I'm sorry John Smith didn't live to disappoint us.
I never trusted or felt the slightest connection to Blair or his cronies.
Bitterness and hubris ruined Gordon Brown, a man spectacularly unsuited to the job and another with no thought as to the mood of his potential audience.

JC, despite not having the independence of mind and courage to ditch some, imho, unpleasant baggage at least has an air of honesty and integrity sadly lacking in almost any other mainstream politician, The Blessed Nicola accepted.
Someone even the most jaded of us, of whatever stripe, to take an interest in.

As someone once said about football, it's the hope that gets you.
😐

And failing to listen to the Brexiters is not a failing in any way exclusive to the Labour Party.

But 63% of Labour voters voted to Remain

But that's 63% of those who voted labour at the last general election.

The one that Labour lost.

Read up on survivorship bias.

ninfan - Member

But that's 63% of those who voted labour at the last general election.

The one that Labour lost.

Strikes me this has literally nothing to do with the point at hand.

I read Angela Eagle is likely to stand as a leadership challenger. I wonder if the PLP need to grow a pair as I fear a leadership election will drag on and destroy the party. I reckon it's time for them to look at forming a new party in a mass move. If Williams, Owen and Jenkins could do it 35 years ago and keep their seats/supporters, let's see 172 do it now. Hey, they may even drag a few more of the 40. Leave Jeremy, his Chancellor and the rest of the SWP wannabes sat up at the back of the opposition benches.....

Yes and when Eagle loses they will have to call another leadership challenge.

Honestly does anyone think Eagle is more electable than Corbyn?

Strikes me this has literally nothing to do with the point at hand.

neilnevill - Member
...I reckon it's time for them to look at forming a new party in a mass move. If Williams, Owen and Jenkins could do it 35 years ago and keep their seats/supporters, let's see 172 do it now...

They got into parliament on the back of being the Labour Party. The ordinary members seem to prefer JC, so it's unlikely they would attract much support come GE time.

The only thing they will achieve is to destroy any influence the left have in Parliament, so the Tories will rule ad infinitum.

Maybe the SNP should start campaigning in England...

The first paragraph of your link binners :

[i]Labour is in danger of becoming “irrelevant to the majority of working people” because the party fails to represent their concerns about immigration, Europe, crime and welfare, according to a devastating new report into its electoral prospects.[/i]

How does in danger of becoming irrelevant back up your claim that UKIP has, quote, "become, in the former labour 'heartlands' of the North, what the SNP have become in Scotland" ?

I don't see that it does. Your claim is ridiculous. I have consistently said on here that Labour needs to reconnect with its traditional voters, that doesn't mean UKIP has destroyed Labour's vote in the North like the SNP has destroyed Labour's vote in Scotland.

UKIP does more damage to the Tories than it does to Labour. The reason why Cameron had a referendum he would have preferred not to have was because of the UKIP threat, no other reason.

UKIP takes both middle-class and working-class Tory votes. If UKIP was more of a threat to Labour than the Tories Cameron would not have proposed an EU referendum, he would have sat back and watched UKIP inflict damage on Labour. Especially as the consequences of it going "the wrong way" were always going to be extremely profound.

.

Like his supporters, you seem more intent on slagging off anyone who disagrees with the beardy messiah, than engaging in any of the issues raised.

What do you mean like his supporters? I am a supporter, I attend Momentum meetings. Although I got pissed off with them bombarding me with pro-EU emails.

And opposing the coup by the PLP isn't the same as on slagging off anyone who disagrees with Corbyn.

As far as addressing the issues raised I do indeed address them. That doesn't mean I think Angela Eagle is the answer though.

You obviously do, so presumably anyone who doesn't think Angela Eagle should be leader of the Labour Party isn't addressing issues which have disconnected traditional Labour voters, according to you.

This has been going on for decades

So you think power should be handed back to a bunch of right-wingers who are completely out of touch with their own party, never mind their own voters. A bunch of right-wingers who have been in power "for decades". Because they know how to sort it out. Well excuse me if I'm not convinced.

Honestly does anyone think Eagle is more electable than Corbyn?

Obviously not. Its a complete mess.

But the shadow front bench is hardly noted for heavyweights who are likely to do a good job is it. How many can anyone name? At least there are a brace of Eagles to make it easier...

Given that the LP are internally focused and still in denial about why they lost the 2015 GE its not surprising that they are floundering now. Fail to learn the lessons of history....

THM not impressed by Labour...who could have foreseen such events?

Anyone any ideas what Binner, ernie or I think of the Tories?

Honestly does anyone think Eagle is more electable than Corbyn?

Of course she isn't. It's utter madness. I can swallow the fact that Corbyn should go, but to be replaced by her? Can anyone really blame him for digging his heels in? And now I hear that the rebels MPs are taking legal advice as to whether they can take the name to a new party. Such is the complete and utter ridiculousness of all this, I assumed they'd be calling themselves The Provisional Labour Party or something.

I forgot Burnham was running for Mayor, so with Watson out they where my 2 picks for a new leader.

Corbyn was a lot more animated tonight speaking to Momentum supporters than we saw during the Referendum. Below is a Vice piece including some recorded remarks from his aide implying she was struggling to get him to engage in the high energy campaign McDonnell wanted to run. Have to say its not as good as usual Vide pieces but you can watch if you wish

Clearly the PLP thought Corbyn would resign if they bullied him enough. The PLP must know Eagle cant win? Have they got a plan?

neilnevill - Member

If Williams, Owen and Jenkins could do it 35 years ago and keep their seats/supporters let's see 172 do it now.

Where are the SDP today ? Tell me.

BTW Owen campaigned passionately against the EU. So that's at least something he's won.

Honestly does anyone think Eagle is more electable than Corbyn?

Yes. Every Labour MP except McDonnell is more electable than Corbyn. Even Dennis Skinner 🙂

Persoanlly I think some of the other 172 need to grow a pair too...team Chaka&Tristan could do well.

Epicyclo, in the GE a lot more people vote than national members of the labour party. A good number of those would never vote for JC. Right now if there was GE I'd consider spoiling my paper with 'none of the above' rather than vote for JC as PM, and I consider myself a staunch labour voter. I suspect a good deal of the 172 would keep their seats, and they might even win in some other seats if they put up candidates

Dazh - our two main political parties are both totally, possibly fatally, split. Any leader has to bridge the gap between the warring factions and the most remarkable feature of all of this is that both have failed at exactly the same time. That is what makes the current situation so serious.

At present it seems very hard to see how these splits can ever be reconciled. It will take remarkable leadership on either side to pull it off and judging by the current front runners they odds look very poor. As I said before, to use a technical term, its a bit of a mess.

I've got Newsnight on. Just let me check ... is it 1982 all over again? Certainly seems like it.

It's actually quite a relief, that. As things from that point went really well for the Labour Party in successfully defending the working class from a right wing Tory party.

Oh wait.... hang on a minute.....

Sweet Jesus! All the potential Tory candidates, particularly the rabid right wing ones, must think all their birthdays and Christmases have all arrived at once!

63% sounds low? How about 64%? That's the proportion of SNP voters that voted Remain. Which is why all those people are blaming Nicola Sturgeon for Brexit and insisting she resign. 1% is the difference between being a disaster of a leader and an unstoppable political force apparently.

Northwind are you saying that everyone in Scotland votes SNP. My understanding is it was 64% of the Scottish electorate which also includes many labour voters. Nicola sturgeon obviously did a better job getting her message out to stay than Corbyn did.

in the GE a lot more people vote than national members of the labour party. A good number of those would never vote for JC.

No, only the ones in Islington will be voting for Corbyn.

Labour voters in other constituencies will be voting for other candidates, like they have in by-elections and the London mayoral election for example.

Do you not get that the widely predicted electoral meltdown which Corbyn was suppose to trigger hasn't materialised? If the PLP stopped sabotaging the Labour Party by slagging off Corbyn and his supporters (that's 60% btw) and also stopped organising coups, that might help Labour's standing. Don't you think?

Sweet Jesus! All the potential Tory candidates, particularly the rabid right wing ones, must think all their birthdays and Christmases have all arrived at once!

Perhaps the PLP could all dress up as father christmases for them? That would be nice.

Go back to Islington, and prepare for government! 😆

Oh.... erm...

😕

As Newsnight reports, Corbyn is a brokenhearted man feeling betrayed. Unsurprisingly. Must be taking its toll on his health,

Is it worth it? Forget the lack of sensible candidates. Who would sensibly want such a shite job?

Go back to Islington, and prepare for government! 😆

Well I know you've got a thing about Islington binners, you are always banging on about it. The "Islington bubble" you call it.

But for someone who likes to castigate others for allegedly not understanding or addressing the issues, and of being ignorant of life in "working-class" inner-city areas, you yourself are remarkably ignorant.

You assume that because it is in London Islington must all be middle-class and affluent.

When in fact Islington has some of the worse deprivation in the UK. Example :

[url= http://islingtonnow.co.uk/2011/03/17/islington-second-worst-child-poverty-rate-in-england/ ]Islington has second-worst child poverty rate in England[/url]

Why do you think they vote Labour and are so exceptionally supportive of their MP?

If the parliamentary Labour Party were an animal, it'd have been put down. I know that this is only one step away from blaming Fatcha, but this almighty cluster****, as much as Iraq, is Blairs true legacy.

Must be taking its toll on his health,

Is it worth it? Forget the lack of sensible candidates. Who would sensibly want such a shite job?

Yes. It's not about him.

If he was in it for just himself he would have behaved more like Blair and the rest of the shower. Blair was very happy with what politics did for him. Corbyn made his choice a long time ago. Too late now for him to change his mind imo.

EDIT : My understanding is that it's the support which he's been receiving that has sustained him. Obviously not support from the PLP.

{removed}

ernie, its pretty clear to me that the labour party is currently massively divided and irreconcilably so. Corbynites and new-Blairites are just to far apart. JC advocates sticking to principles, well I'd like to see the 172 stick to their principles and leave. I'd like to see them take on the JC labour party, and I'd vote for them.

andy4d - Member

Northwind are you saying that everyone in Scotland votes SNP. My understanding is it was 64% of the Scottish electorate which also includes many labour voters.

Of course I'm not saying that. I am reallyy just saying what I wrote. 64% of SNP voters (according to exit polling) voted Remain. (62% of Scottish voters as a whole).

This compares with 63% for Labour voters UK-wide, which we're told is a disaster for Corbyn, while 64% is a triumph for Sturgeon. Weird eh?

well I'd like to see the 172 stick to their principles

Are you sure they've got some? What are they?

putting some effort into a campaign and trying to win

And you think staging a coup against your own party is the way to win, or even a principle?

BTW most of the campaigning at elections is done by party members. If it was left just to MPs they would never win.

the original "gang of four" got a reasonable grass roots organisation up and running very quickly

imagine what the "gang of 172" could do

neilnevill - Member

putting some effort into a campaign and trying to win

He did, even Angela Eagle said so. She tweeted something like
"Corbyn working so hard, so much energy its not our fault the media is not reporting it"

Your using some very emotional language ernie, why is it a coup? He's been sacking members of the shadow cabinet, not for failing tp perform but for expressing views to him. These are smart, experienced political heavyweights who have earned (in my view) a right to have their views heard by the party leader. Personally I think JC's behaviour is poor. Its stirred up some strong responses but coup? Not a word I'd use. I see more PLP members, including the deputy leader (elected in the same vote as JC) trying to talk to JC and find a compromise, I see JC refusing to negotiate, I see the PLP now pursuing the remaining options and likely putting in a challenge as per the party constitution. Personally I can't see that uniting the party hence why I'd like to see them leave and form a new party. That's not a coup, they have to win/earn support. If they don't they won't be re-elected. They may be 'stealing' the role of formal opposition I guess, call that a coup if you widh but it isn't to me.

[img] [/img]

ftfy

Its a coup FFS! They timed resignations for maximum impact. Tuly horrible behaviour.

I just want to know which treatise JC is getting his plays from, as an exercise in political entryism he is making a good job of it.

Is this labours Kronstadt moment?

neilnevill, cheers!

What makes it unforgivable, for me, isn't necessary revolting against your leader- it's the way they're doing it. Because as has been discussed here already, there is a legitimate process by which they can challenge a leader- and they need only have the support of 51 MPS and MEPs. So all of this "you must resign now for the party's good" stuff is just inescapably bullshit. If you want to overthrow a leader, then do so.

**** these guys. But that's no use, because we need an opposition. So doubly **** these guys.

No that is politics, presenting your case strongly. a coup is,
noun

1.
a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.

I haven't seen any illegal acts.

He's been sacking members of the shadow cabinet, not for failing tp perform but for expressing views to him.

The only person he's sacked is Hilary Benn, although it is widely accepted that Hilary Benn in effect sacked himself - you don't start organising a coup to topple your leader and expect to have the same job the next day.

Although I find your suggestion that Corbyn has been sacking people ruthlessly fascinating, it goes completely against the grain of what his critics have been saying. Hilary Benn claims that Corbyn is "a honest decent man" he just isn't a leader. Well he is but we know what Hilary Benn means.

neilnevill - Member

No that is politics, presenting your case strongly. a coup is,
noun

1.
a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.

I haven't seen any illegal acts.

Can you email that to all the major newspapers........like me they've been using the term incorrectly.

I will try not to use emotive language, but the simple fact is that the coalition that was the Labour has completely and utterly broken down. Corbyn as a representative of the left of that coalition has a very significant foothold in Labour Party machine - he (and his comrades - I think he would use this word) reckons and he is probably right that the membership will re-elect him. The PLP are desperately seeking to get rid of him because, in their view he will not win an election, even with the Tory party in disarray, which it certainly is. Their problem is that there is limited evidence to support this - it is all an opposition party should be doing this at this stage etc. It is only with an actual national vote that you can argue you have incontrovertible proof - and even then you can argue against it.

Ernie is happy to put forward his compromise because he is comfortable - probably rightly that the membership will stick with Corbyn. It was rumoured a compromise was being brokered today - my guess is that the Leader's team wanted a guarantee that an alternative candidate, presumably McDonell - who is better suited based on what I have seen - would be nominated. That would never happen so we - using the pronoun loosely - have a mexican stand-off.

The PLP lost when Corbyn was nominated, he was the wrong person (although if he has been anyone else they wouldn't have been nominated as he wasn't regarded as a threat) in the right place at the right time.

The PLP are desperately seeking to get rid of him because, in their view he will not win an election, even with the Tory party in disarray, which it certainly is.

Well that is one point of view, but not necessarily one which I agree with, it is certainly what they are claiming though.

Personally I think someone like Tony Blair is far more terrified with the thought that Corbyn might win an election. If winning a general election was really the priority then Blair would never have backed Liz Kendall, she might as well have had "loser" stamped on her forehead.

I use Blair as an example, although admittedly a more extreme example, but I think you can apply that logic further. As you say, proof that Corbyn can't win elections is scant.

Ernie is happy to put forward his compromise because he is comfortable - probably rightly that the membership will stick with Corbyn.

That's not necessarily true. Yes I think he would win but that's not my only consideration. I would happy to accept defeat if I thought that if in the future Labour Party members wanted to nominate someone else without the interference of the PLP they would be allowed to.

Labour Party members, and affiliates, and supporters, are told that it is up to them who the Labour Party leader is. All well and good, so it's up to them to decide then.

You can't have this situation where you tell people that they have a democratic right to vote on decision making but only if they vote correctly. That's absurd.

But how then, people ask, do you resolve the issue when the PLP and the membership are in conflict. That question completely misses the point. No political party should be in a situation where its membership have a conflict of interest with its elected politicians.

If that situation occurs it suggests that the party is rotten and corrupt.

The Labour Party today is rotten. There's no disputing that. Replacing Corbyn will not fix the problem. There's no disputing that either.

The Labour Party needs to be working as one. Replacing a leader who received 59.5% of the vote, more than all the other candidates put together, and who probably would win again tomorrow, won't achieve that.

If the PLP replace Corbyn with someone else like Angela Eagle in defiance of the majority they will lose the next general election for sure. The next general election was never going to be a walk in the park for Labour, they won't win if they don't work as one.

And the blame for division in the Labour Party lies firmly with the PLP.

BTW never have I seen so much support for parliamentarians on STW as I have seen recently on this thread. Usually all I hear is how politicians are self-serving, useless, greedy, lazy, overpaid, all liars, without principles, not worth voting for, and so on.

Now some people who are always so quick to denounce them as self-serving, useless, greedy, lazy, overpaid, liars, without principles, and not worth voting for, are rushing to defend them.

How strange.

Such a sad state of affairs that when the Labour party should be uniting, capitalising on a Tory party and country in disarray, the self serving ****s in the party try and over throw their leader. Corbyn may or may not be able to win the next election, but if they keep on going the way they are at the moment they'll alienate their core support even more and will definitely lose.

This idea that the Conservative Party are in "disarray" is just wishfull thinking IMHO. They look to me like a body engaged in an orderly transition. Compared to the violent eruptions taking place across the aisle, I'd say they were the most impressively organised of the two and more likely to transition with a minimum if fuss and in control of events. Markets looking up, too.

This idea that the Conservative Party are in "disarray" is just wishfull thinking IMHO

They look to me like a body engaged in an orderly transition.

Compared to the violent eruptions

BoJo is going to face a grilling on his EU plans and I'm guessing it's not going to be easy. Wait and see if someone wants to pull a remain move in there too

I am coming to the conclusion that there are no real Brexiters in the controlling level of the Conservative party. BoJo is emulating his great political hero Churchill, a politician who made a practice of attaching himself to whatever party or faction he saw as progressing his own ambitions, even where they were directly opposed in policy terms. Don't forget that Boris has always been pro-Europe. I suspect his late conversion was because he realised that such a long-term process was more likely to result in a closer union after all, once the system had been manipulated and the sheep, sorry - electorate - had been properly herded. The negotiations for the exit are going to take YEARS. I suspect that, once the political class have sorted themselves out, by 2020 and beyond, we'll probably end up hard-wired into a Federal EU after all.

Anyway, don't let me hijack a thread about poor old Jeremy and his pals.

I'm enjoying ernie's dialectical precision, as ever.

Carry on.

A reality check for Ernie and the rest of Momentum/SWP cult:

5 Live have just had the heads of five Tory constituancy associations. They were discussing the relative merits of the proposed Tory candidates, listing their relative strengths and weaknesses. They were then asked who they would like to see lead the Labour Party into the next election. They didn't even have to think about it for a second. The replies were immediate and unequivocal.

1. Corbyn
2. Corbyn
3. Corbyn
4. Corbyn
Then
5. Corbyn - with the added caveat: "to lead them to their final defeat"

ernie_lynch - Member
...No political party should be in a situation where its membership have a conflict of interest with its elected politicians.

If that situation occurs it suggests that the party is rotten and corrupt...

It seems a long time since the Labour party "elite" shared the values that its voters think that they are voting for.

So rotten and corrupt is a spot on description.

I think Corbyn should sit tight a bit longer to allow the last few Blairites to identify themselves. A leadership spill will see him re-elected with an overwhelming majority. If I was him I'd make a condition of running a leadership election that the losers resign their parliamentary seats.

The Tories may be underestimating Corbyn. He's been walking a tightrope since he became party leader. A convincing victory in a leadership election and a putsch on the Blairites, and you'd see a different animal.

But how then, people ask, do you resolve the issue when the PLP and the membership are in conflict. That question completely misses the point.

On the contrary it seems to be very much the point. This is real life not some hypothetical politics case study.

No political party should be in a situation where its membership have a conflict of interest with its elected politicians. If that situation occurs it suggests that the party is rotten and corrupt.The Labour Party today is rotten. There's no disputing that. Replacing Corbyn will not fix the problem. There's no disputing that either.

True

The Labour Party needs to be working as one. Replacing a leader who received 59.5% of the vote, more than all the other candidates put together, and who probably would win again tomorrow, won't achieve that.

If the PLP replace Corbyn with someone else like Angela Eagle in defiance of the majority they will lose the next general election for sure. The next general election was never going to be a walk in the park for Labour, they won't win if they don't work as one.And the blame for division in the Labour Party lies firmly with the PLP.

Ditto

Here's a tip 😉 try stepping away from party political allegiances - unlike L'Oreal, they are not worth it. Then you can "enjoy" being dismayed at all this nonsense without taking it personally.

Far too tough trying to justify the unjustifiable!!! And a waste of time and energy. That is the point 😉

The Tories may be underestimating Corbyn. He's been walking a tightrope since he became party leader. A convincing victory in a leadership election and a putsch on the Blairites, and you'd see a different animal.

Is that in the same way as everyone at the Euro's has been underestimating the England squad? 😆

😆

Good to see the SoH is back binners and its spreading ...

...apparently the Tories are going to position Bojo as ......wait for it.....

A "Unity" candidate. Wey, hey.

Swallow that one too...

Don't forget that Boris has always been pro-Europe. I suspect his late conversion was because he realised that such a long-term process was more likely to result in a closer union after all, once the system had been manipulated and the sheep, sorry - electorate - had been properly herded.

Hurty - I'm at whatever stage of grief is represented by 'well you have to laugh, don't you....?'

I'm now resigned to living in a one party state with a permanent Tory hegemony, once Scotland gets independence. And I'm going to try not to get too upset as I watch the Labour party disappear up its own arse, in a cloud of quite nasty Kim Jong Un style socialist invective.

Have they released the Miliband yet?

I got a tenner on him at 7/1, so wish they'd hurry up.

I think you'll find, thm, that the Conservative candidates are positioning themselves...

True woppitt, my sloppy English

Cheer up binns, it's never as bad as it seems - ok, it is pretty bad but nothing a nice ride can't solve!!!

It would seem that if one good thing were to come out of Brexit it should be a complete overhaul of the UK political landscape and voting system. I reckon it is long overdue a major revamp and the cracks that have appeared over the past weeks prove that what we have now is just not fit for purpose. We have a Labour party currently comprised a true left-wing socialist faction and a more moderate left of centre faction, both fighting to be called the Labour party (with an eye on a future election). Meanwhile the regional Nationalist and Green parties are creaming off the true socialist voters and diluting any power they may have once had. Then you have a Conservative party torn down the middle between right-of-centre moderates and true neoliberal capitalists. And potentially to the right of that come the UKIP which are poaching votes from the far right who understand their politics and from the disenfranchised from other voting factions who believe their spin.
So how to sort out this mess.
1. First thing is that the first past the post system needs to be replaced by a proportional representative system so that everyone's vote can have a value. regardless of who you vote for.
2. We need at least 5 main parties to cover the full remit of political factions; a socialist labour movement, a social democrat party, a liberal democrat party, a conservative party, and a far right nationalist party. Throw in a green party and the regional Nationalist parties for good measure.
3. Government, would, by design have to be through coalition. This does not need to be negative and the fact that the more extreme parties can theoretically have representative numbers of MPs to match their votes is highly desirable.
4. The upper house needs reform. At the very least it should be comprised from a cross section of persons from politics, business and communities agreed on and voted into office from all parties in the lower house. No un-elected peers.
5. May be time for a proper written constitution

These are my ideas. I don't often talk politics, but believe the time is ripe for change. Trouble is, how does one go about achieving this???

Bongo - have you had a punt on the Tory leadership? I've had a fiver on Stephen Crabb at 8-1. As thats just the kind of contrary result Tory leadership elections tend to throw up.

Its him or May. The one person who hasn't got a cat in hells chance is Boris Johnson. I don't think he knows this yet. Which is going to make it even funnier when he fails to make it into the final ballot 😀

1. First thing is that the first past the post system needs to be replaced by a proportional representative system so that everyone's vote can have a value. regardless of who you vote for.

welshfarmer - can you run for PM please? Then we can all vote for you, and you can put all that in place

Cheers! 😀

[quote=5thElefant ] 1. First thing is that the first past the post system needs to be replaced by a proportional representative system so that everyone's vote can have a value. regardless of who you vote for.
Sod that. The last thing we need is loons like UKIP and the greens getting real power through coalitions.

Reality shows that no-one will go into a coalition with an extremist party. In Germany Netherlands and others with PR you will more likely see a Lab-Con coalition than see any of the parties prepared to govern with the extreme fringe parties. Plus, given that a vote for the extremists will count, and not just be a protest vote, many will actually think before giving their vote to them, especially if they think a vote for a party they better represents their general views has a chance of power.

Bongo - have you had a punt on the Tory leadership?

No. I got too depressed looking at the candidates, so just chucked a fiver on Wenger becoming next England manager. I'd rather chuck away a fiver on an angular French choker, than contemplate BoJo becoming next PM.

binners - Member

A reality check for Ernie and the rest of Momentum/SWP cult:

5 Live have just had the heads of five Tory constituancy associations. They were discussing the relative merits of the proposed Tory candidates, listing their relative strengths and weaknesses. They were then asked who they would like to see lead the Labour Party into the next election. They didn't even have to think about it for a second. The replies were immediate and unequivocal.

1. Corbyn
2. Corbyn
3. Corbyn
4. Corbyn
Then
5. Corbyn - with the added caveat: "to lead them to their final defeat"
Posted 39 minutes ago # Report-Post

Should someone who claims that UKIP have done to Labour in the "Northern Heartlands" what the SNP has done to Labour in Scotland really be telling other people they need a reality check?

They were then asked who they would like to see lead the Labour Party into the next election. They didn't even have to think about it for a second. The replies were immediate and unequivocal.

No shit Sherlock???

Did you honestly think there was the slightest possibility that the Tories might not be revelling in the turmoil caused by the PLP as they constantly brief the media against their own leader and then stage a coup against their own party?

Of course they want Corbyn as leader, because the Blairites will do far more damage to Labour as long as he is leader than they could ever do.

Although up until now they have failed for those attacks to damage Labour sufficiently enough to affect election results. Now the Blairites have decided to make the attack full-frontal and every career politician is backing them.

I can guarantee binners that if Corbyn remains leader you will continue your ridiculous rants about free range organic hermaphrodite middle-class lefties. How many votes do you reckon you will be picking up for Labour in the process? Not that I'm suggesting anyone listens to you of course.

Have a reality check fella while I carry on supporting those who don't want their party to be in the control of blackmailers - because blackmail is exactly what it is.

I can guarantee binners that if Corbyn remains leader you will continue your ridiculous rants about free range organic hermaphrodite middle-class lefties. How many votes do you reckon you will be picking up for Labour in the process? Not that I'm suggesting anyone listens to you of course.

Well at least he can be warmed by the fact that you are listening to him though - Ernie, the unity candidate - are you Bojo in disguise? (At least that explains all the Maggie photos 😉 )

Right on Ernie!!!!

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Well at least he can be warmed by the fact that you are listening to him though

There are certain people on here whose posts if they go beyond one paragraph I usually ignore, you're one of them btw, so there's always a chance I might read anyone's post. I even occasionally read Chewwy's posts.

I always try to read mefty's posts in their entirety, no matter how long they are. What do you think that might mean?

You fancy him?

I even occasionally read Chewwy's posts.

Right on Ernie!!!!

I am hugely relieved that you needed to resort to posting a funny picture binners.

I was terrified by the possibility that you might come back with a carefully constructed repudiation.

I don't think theres anything I could possibly say that would deflect yourself and your comrades from the true path of delivering us all into the socialist utopia of the Glorious Leader. You simply neeed to rid the party of dissenting voices, then once your message is out there, all those voters in marginal seats, the UKIP leaning northerners, and in the rock solid Tory constituencies will see the error of their ways, converted as they surely will be by the pure socialist ethos of the messiah....

*Salutes the Red Flag*

I don't think theres anything I could possibly say that would deflect yourself and your comrades from the true path of delivering us all into the socialist utopia of the Glorious Leader

Will there be enforced silence for the non-believers once the revolution has taken place? Or re-education?

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Steady binns, you're overheating. Mrs Ming is making her pitch. Are you watching?