Jeremy Corbyn

It's amusing that so many people here are so virulently anti-Corbyn. And your choice for Labour leader would be?

Labour was traditionally a party of the Left. Successive right-wing governments have, through lies, manipulation of facts, the media and constant demonisation of leftist politics, have turned the UK into a fundamentally right-wing nation. Any notion that our politics are at all 'centrist' are laughable; only from a very right-wing position, could that be true.

The simple fact is, that with the UK heading the way it is (declining rapidly as a global force, increasingly dependant on imports and foreign investment, and with other nations rapidly overtaking it in terms of economies), the only way for the nation to go, if the current status quo is maintained, is downhill. Leading to a situation where eventually, the UK will not survive without major state intervention to protect what little industries and resources we have left. The incumbent tories don't really care about this; they will have lined their own nests long before this happens. but the decline is increasing in pace, and a continuance of right-wing leadership will see the UK tearing itself apart. The elite will retreat into the larger metropolitan areas, and we could even see the regions splinter, with London and the South East emerging as a separate entity altogether (Scotland will have become an irrelevance by then, as it will have no resources to support itself).

The bulk of the problem is that many in the UK enjoyed relative wealth compared globally, and got complacent. Easy credit led to massive overspending and economic short sightedness. Those with a vested interest in taking fools money from them, got very, very rich. Now we have a situation, at the end of Empire, where the golden goose is no longer laying, and the stockpile of baked beans is running out.

But I don't see many people coming up with any clear, workable plans. Just a lot of blaming of others.

"A lot of shouting coming from binners but not many ideas...."

Because of course, it's so much easier to blame others for your own problems/lack of progress, than to look at yourself, and take responsibility for your part in it all.

The whole party needs fundamental reform, from the ground up. But thats not going to happen under Comrade Corbyn. The first step has to be ushering him back onto the backbenches he should never have left.

As their current membership seem to support Corbyn (Guardian Poll yesterday), it seems unlikely there will be any change. If the members call the shots and they want a left wing party, then a left wing party it is.

Almost funny from Tom Watson

“Everyone needs to calm down and try and prevent a civil war in the Labour party. We should not rush into a leadership contest that would be irreversible.”

Well we rushed out of Europe and into financial Armageddon, so why not this 😉

This is interesting and leads to bigger questions about just how much of politics and media is choreographed well in advance by PR firms which taint the value of democracy:
[url= http://www.thecanary.co/2016/06/28/blairite-labour-coup-plotters-protected-media-giant-tied-tony-blair/ ]
Labour coup plotters protected by media giant tied to Blairite PR firm, linked to coup[/url]

A Sky News report identifying three senior Labour Party whips as the Blairite “choreographers” of Labour opposition to Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership was inexplicably self-censored on Monday. But the censorship comes as little surprise given Sky News’ longstanding connections to a powerful PR firm tied to former Prime Minister Tony Blair. The firm, Portland Communications, is not only directly connected to the Labour coup plotters, but had anticipated a Shadow Cabinet “mass resignation” contingency plan to oust Corbyn at least six months ago – long before the EU referendum results.

Five paragraphs identifying the Blairite ringleaders of the coup were deleted from a Sky News report hours after being quoted in an investigation by The Canary.

The Canary reported that the individuals identified were part of a wider network of Blairite elites affiliated to the Fabian Society, who have seen Jeremy Corbyn’s landside victory in Labour leadership elections as a direct threat to the New Labour ‘old guard’ in the party.

Yet shortly after the publication of our story, including passages quoted from Sky News identifying core instigators of the mass resignations, Sky News updated its report with a new version of the article, in which those passages were removed.

The earlier version of the Sky News report, which has now been completely scrubbed from all published versions available online, suggested that the sudden uprising was not spontaneous, but carefully planned.

The report quoted Sky News political correspondent Sophy Ridge accusing one of Corbyn’s own whips, Conor McGinn MP, of coordinating the resignations to “try to cause maximum impact”:

Meanwhile, the party’s leaders in the Lords – Baroness Smith of Basildon, Labour leader in the Lords, and Lord Bassam, the chief whip – are likely to boycott shadow cabinet meetings while Mr Corbyn remains, a spokesman for the House of Lords said.

Former shadow education secretary Lucy Powell, who resigned on Sunday, insisted the resignations were not a ‘planned coup’ against Mr Corbyn, but a reaction to the ‘seismic’ events which have shaken Westminster in recent days.

But Sky’s Senior Political Correspondent Sophy Ridge said she understood that the man choreographing the resignations is Conor McGinn, Labour MP for St Helens North.

She said: ‘He’s ringing shadow cabinet members and ministers, organising the timings and co-ordinating the resignations to try to cause maximum impact.

‘This is significant because he’s one of Jeremy Corbyn’s Whips – tasked with ensuring party discipline.’

[url= https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:i5bHwu_xrT0J:https://uk.news.yahoo.com/corbyn-under-fire-more-labour-resignations-065806775.html+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=safari ]The earlier version of the article can still be viewed via Google’s cache feature here[/url].

From Sky, to Portland, to the Labour MP who tabled the motion against Corbyn

But an exclusive investigation on Tuesday by The Canary’s Steve Topple has found that Portland is directly linked to the anti-Corbyn uprising. Portland Communications’ Advisory Board includes Blair spin doctors Alastair Campbell and Jimmy Leach, along with Kitty Ussher, former Parliamentary Private Secretary to Margaret Hodge, who was Blair’s Trade Minister until 2007.

It was Margaret Hodge who first tabled a motion of no confidence against Jeremy Corbyn on Friday.

The Canary asked Portland Communications by email whether the firm, or people affiliated with the firm, were involved in the mounting campaign to oust Corbyn, but received no response.

Tony Ball, Tim Allan’s former boss at Sky, later also went on to join Portland Communications’ leadership team himself.

Sky News Editor-at-Large Adam Boulton is personally close to the Blairite network. In 2006, Boulton married Tony Blair’s communications advisor Anji Hunter. The wedding was attended by Blair, and several other senior Blairite officials including Portland’s Alastair Campbell, along with Peter Hain, David Blunkett and Tessa Jowell.

If it was indeed planned months in advance, is the Brexit referendum simply being used as leverage, when the real issue is the Chilcot report being released next week?

I really don't see why those 'Labour' MPs against Corbyn can't just up and leave to form their own new party, if they cannot accept the democratic mandate that made him party leader. They can deselect themselves and stand as independents/new party members in the next GE. And everyone who has voted Labour yet doesn't like Corbyn, can go and vote for them. That's democracy.

Of course, this new party would be even more ineffectual and politically irrelevant as the LibDems. But at least they'd be able to stay on the political gravy train, because let's face it; that's pretty much the only reason most of them got into politics anyway.

"If the members call the shots and they want a left wing party, then a left wing party it is."

Exactly. End of. Don't like it? Leave. Nobody's forcing you to stay.

And everyone who has voted Labour yet doesn't like Corbyn, can go and vote for them. That's democracy.

Also a lot of hard work, probably easier to just try and force him out then go back to feathering their own nests...

"It's amusing that so many people here are so virulently anti-Corbyn. And your choice for Labour leader would be?"

Well, Corbyn, obviously.

It's amusing that so many people here are so virulently anti-Corbyn. And your choice for Labour leader would be?

Its a tough one isn't it?

Any notion that our politics are at all 'centrist are laughable; only from a very right-wing position, could that be true.

😀

The simple fact is, that with the UK heading the way it is (declining rapidly as a global force, increasingly dependant on imports and foreign investment, and with other nations rapidly overtaking it in terms of economies), the only way for the nation to go, if the current status quo is maintained, is downhill.

I wont ask what definition of simple is being used, but one point - given that we are the fifth largest economy in the world (FX volatility notwithstanding) "rapidly overtaking" seems about as factual as a VL promise

The bulk of the problem is that many in the UK enjoyed relative wealth compared globally,

Hang on, are we in rapid decline or enjoying relative wealth?

Easy credit led to massive overspending and economic short sightedness. Those with a vested interest in taking fools money from them, got very, very rich.

At least that is true 😉

thm, apologies for calling you a knob.
It was actually meant to come across as friendly.
🙂

I stand by the rest of the now deleted post though.
😀

"given that we are the fifth largest economy in the world "

6th, according to recent figures. And slipping down the table. And of course, it all depends on who's making up the figures. 😉

"Hang on, are we in rapid decline or enjoying relative wealth?"

Notice 'enjoy[b]ed[/b]'. Past tense. 😉

dont worry clod - its bad but not that bad

rusty - ok, thx

"It's amusing that so many people here are so virulently anti-Corbyn. And your choice for Labour leader would be?"

David Miliband. Although they'd need some jiggery pokery to get him in in time.

In fact if the unions hadn't decided that they wanted the wrong Miliband in charge of the labour party the right one might have won the GE and so we wouldn't have ended up with the referendum in the first place. Bloody unions...

"dont worry clod - its bad but not that bad"

Hold on-

"David Miliband."

No, it is. It really is. 😯

Seriously; we didn't all wake up on Friday and the UK is a 100 times worse place. But I think all the facts point towards rapid decline if the current situation continues. Mind you; none of this really affects me, as I'm part of the 'liberal elite', as I've already mentioned. I do feel sorry for Binners though; what will he do when all the Greggs close down because all their migrant staff have gone?

declining rapidly as a global force

Prior to last Thursday, what's your source for this claim?

Politicians and nappies have one thing in common: they should both be changed regularly… and for the same reason...

Have the PLP decided on a contender yet? What about George Osbourne? Or Stephen Crabbe. Proper centrist politicians - I think Crabbe is from a working class backround ! And he's Welsh!

(Scotland will have become an irrelevance by then, as it will have no resources to support itself).

😆

I really don't see why those 'Labour' MPs against Corbyn can't just up and leave to form their own new party,

Simple isn't it, like everything else in life it boils down to money. Where is going to come from to start a new party?

Taxes and/or the money tree?

So even Cameron wants him to stand down, another Tory wants Corbyn out! No doubt it will strengthen his resolve.

Did anyone hear Milliband on WATO ? He sounded SO like Tony Blair! It was like he was doing an impression.

Its more than that a party needs boots on the ground,
not easy to generate those

Its more than that a party needs boots on the ground,
not easy to generate those

Not when the boots have already voted for the leader you're trying to oust, no.

He was voted in to lead the plp. Given that somewhere around 80% of the PLP have expressed no confidence in his ability to do that job how can be fulfil the mandate given to him.

Imagine if the 170 or so mp's who voted against him buggered off, joined another party, went awol whatever would be still be say there with the 40 loyal mp's saying well, this is what the membership voted for-me to lead the party.

He needs to go...

PLP created this mess for themselves, they put him on the ballot in the first place. I understand he has to be on again this time (differeing views) I just wonder about the chaos there would be if he's re-elected (how do you spell that 😳 ).

I just wonder about the chaos there would be if he's re-elected

It would mean the end of the labour party, as it'd have no option but to split.

I firmly believe that the militant lefties around the Glorious bearded leader are so narrow-minded, and sanctimoniously convinced of their own rightness, that they would regard this as a victory. Even if, in doing so, they cosigned the labour party to electoral oblivion for ever and handed the country a permanent one party state. They really are that mental!

One party state sounds familiar

conviction innit, binners?

Old men are notoriously unstable on stairs you know, nudge, nudge, wink, wink.

What the heck are Unions doing, I'd expect the more lefty ones to remain positive, but surely some of the more center ground ones realise he is a deadman walking?

"I firmly believe that the militant lefties around the Glorious bearded leader are so narrow-minded"

😆

Have you ever been to a Labour party meeting? 'Militant lefties'? More like a load of centrist and moderate lefties! There aren't any 'militants' left! They've pretty much given up on Labour; they did so nearly 20 years ago.

"Even if, in doing so, they cosigned the labour party to electoral oblivion for ever and handed the country a permanent one party state. "

So; you'd rather the right-wingers merely elect yet another **** to make them supposedly 'electable' (that went so well with that useless little puppet Ed Miliband, didnt it?), and get wiped out yet again by the actual tories/UKIP? What's the point of that? As I read the other day, it would be merely the other side of a shit sandwich. Or is it just that you want a 'Labour' party to win an election, to satisfy your own ego?

As it is, you can vote tory if that's what you want; same outcome. Then you can be on the 'winning' side.

Labour needs to split in order to restore balance to UK politics. If this doesn't happen, then we are doomed to a right wing society for ever.

Seriously binners who is the labour MP to unify the country?

Do you want someone anti- immigration to get kippers on side?

Do you thnk Eagle ir Watson would win a G.E?

PLP as deluded as the Corbynistas.

@clod btw UK stock market outperforming most others, markets are saying Brexit is worse for Europeans than us.

Socialist Workers Party where out in force at the pro-Corbyn rally the other day. I would suspect many of the £3-ers are SWP ?

"what's your source for this claim?"

Reality.

Not really an answer.

"In force" Jambas? There were possibly more members of a shadow cabinet in the photo than in the rally...

How did their numbers compare with the pro-Europeans yesterday protesting at the con act pulled of by the BSers?

I firmly believe that the militant lefties around the Glorious bearded leader are so narrow-minded, and sanctimoniously convinced of their own rightness, that they would regard this as a victory. Even if, in doing so, they cosigned the labour party to electoral oblivion for ever and handed the country a permanent one party state. They really are that mental!

Just perhaps they've looked at the PLP and seen a bunch of self-serving, venal, mendacious, pole-climbing careerists fighting over nothing that actually matters, instead of trying to work out what the Labour party is actually supposed to be for.

Clearly, Corbyn isn't the answer but I'm pretty sure the answer isn't going to be found in that total shower of nonentities.

Time to get rid and start again.

Socialist Workers Party where out in force at the pro-Corbyn rally the other day. I would suspect many of the £3-ers are SWP ?

I would suspect many of the £3-ers are [s]SWP[/s] [b]conservative party members[/b] ?

FIFY

What's the consensus on Dan Jarvis?

Lightweight

You do know that Corbyn would have won without the three quidders, right?

Yes

Wings on Corbyn

http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-suicide-squad/

breaking news: Jeremy Corbyn has declared that he intends to defend labour leadership with trial by combat!

Dan Jarvis is a future leadership candidate, not ready yet imho

Watson or Burnham

Watson ruled himself out.

Of government?

? Or is that a joke?

Think he's trying to keep his job after Corbyn smashes another leadership contest.

Handsome, widowed, ex army major, lightweight!

Think he's trying to keep his job after Corbyn smashes another leadership contest.

If he does, where does that leave the 80% of MPs who don't support him? Resignation? Defection?

Seems to me if Corbyn wins he will continue with a significantly understaffed shadow cabinet and much of the work done by (momentum) activists ? 80% who don't supoort him will sit on the (crowded) back benches

In fairness to JC he has a lot of experince of operating on his own as he's never really been part of the Palrliamentary Labour Party

I imagine Jeremy Corbyn will branch off from the Labour party, perhaps he could call it the New-New Labour party

footflaps - Member

"He's stood by and watched UKIP become, in the former labour 'heartlands' of the North, what the SNP have become in Scotland".

Can a pro EU party offer these regions anything they actually want?

As far as I can see they'd rather starve to death than accept immigrants.
Posted 7 hours ago # Report-Post

Despite binners hyperventilating with rage and indignation as he rants on about "one-armed, free range, organic hermaphrodite middle-class lefties" who he informs us are the "very worst human beings on the planet", and how they have wrecked the Labour Party causing UKIP to seize the Northern Labour heartlands actual hard "facts" don't back up what is otherwise an impressive rant by any standard.

We had nationwide local elections exactly 8 weeks ago, this included Labour 'heartlands' of the North.

UKIP won 58 council seats and the control of 0 councils.

Labour, which came first in the elections, won 1,326 council seats and the control of 58 councils.

Labour's closest rivals where the Tories who won 842 council seats and the control of 38 councils.

[img] [/img]

That was precisely 8 weeks ago.

Claiming that UKIP has become in the former Labour 'heartlands' of the North what the SNP have become in Scotland is a excellent rant but it is also utterly false. Unsurprisingly.

Yes but you know that people don't vote the same way in local elections as they do in GEs.

Actual they do.

Labour strongholds vote Labour in local elections and Labour in general elections. Tory strongholds vote Tory in local elections and Tory in general elections. LibDem strongholds vote LibDem in local elections and LibDem in general elections. UKIP strongholds vote UKIP in local elections and UKIP in general elections.

Can you see a pattern ?

Maybe you could tell us what the benefit of winning stronghold seats is?

Does it matter whether Liverpool Walton is settled with a 10,000 or 20,000 Labour majority, if they can't win Bolton West?

No need to be such a sarcastic arsehole ernie - please. It's just nasty and unnecessary.

My point was that the proportions of councils controlled by the parties is not the same as the proportions of seats in the commons. I haven't got time right now to find the stats on overall council controls so cannot do the maths.

No need to be such a sarcastic arsehole ernie - please. It's just nasty and unnecessary.

If you think I'm being nasty hit the report button mate. I post how I wish, not how you would wish me to.

My style, which you obviously don't approve of, doesn't include calling someone a "sarcastic arsehole". But I let people decide for themselves how they construct their posts.

somafunk - Member
I imagine Jeremy Corbyn will branch off from the Labour party, perhaps he could call it the New-New Labour party

So we square the circle from my first post on this thread

teamhurtmore - Member
So by latest accounts, Jezza is doing a pretty good job and may be appointed our next leader of the opposition. Well done to him.

So what will the next name be

New, new labour
New, old labour
Retro labour
Hard labour

Ok not the last one but.....

POSTED 11 MONTHS AGO #

any more?

Busted flush
Left out
Red mist (that's for our angry socialist/UKIP sympathiser)

If you think I'm being nasty hit the report button mate

No, I'll just ask you to be a bit nicer. You can refuse, but I can still ask.

Hopefully Corbyn stays and the rest leave.

#remain

I thought Tom came over very well in that interview.

Well I've told you, you are wasting your time. Report my posts, ignore my posts, don't read my posts, whatever you want. There was no "sarcasm" but if you think there was then deal with it in whatever way you see fit. I will continue not calling people arseholes, if that's ok with you*.

* That's me being sarcastic btw.

Maybe you could tell us what the benefit of winning stronghold seats is?

Better than the Scottish alternative 🙂 ?

Jeremy obviously hasn't been given enough time to convince the party members of the wisdom of his policies. So clearly he should go on. Also due to bias in the press they should be prevented from reporting on him at all.

Given his position in Stop the Wat its quite ironic that it seems quite likely that the squabling over the leadership will continue right up to and beyond Chilcot. I also wonder whether Corbyn and the NEC will try and again surpress the full details of the anti-semitism investigation (mark 3). Maybe that could be the end ?

Ernie you honestly don't think your post was a bit inflammatory?

Stop the Wat

[url= https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wat_Tyler ]Seems harsh. [/url]

Ernie you honestly don't think your post was a bit inflammatory?

I didn't think it was in the least bit inflammatory. I was making a point.

Now if you think that me making a point which contradicts yours is "a bit inflammatory" then that's a whole different ballgame.

Anyone have any constructive ideas at this point?

Personally, I value the opinion of the members over the current PLP and their excellent sense of timing.

I would be prepared to compromise, in order to maintain unity in the face of a GE, but how much?

How much do we change and compromise before we have to encourage those without a Socialist principle between them to find a natural home in the Lib Dems?
They could happily mount a successful coup there by vigorously waving a doily.

Change too much and we lose the new, young voters everyone pretended to be so happy about.
Don't change enough and no effective opposition to the Tory lurch to the populist right?

I didn't think it was in the least bit inflammatory. I was making a point.

Well, it really read as inflammatory.

Rusty - best option I think is for Corbyn to step down, and try and find a candidate slightly centre of himself maybe but that would still appeal to the PLP. Then endorse that candidate.

However his reluctance to co-operate with the PLP make you wonder how acrimonious it's been, and who made it so?

Personally, I value the opinion of the members over the current PLP and their excellent sense of timing.

Agreed, but with 70-80% of the PLP on strike, Labour won't be going anywhere, so we really do need a better solution.

Personally, I value the opinion of the members over the current PLP

Surely the focus should be on those who [i]might[/i] vote Labour, as opposed to those who would slavishly vote for a dog turd if it had a red rosette on it?

How much do we change and compromise before we have to encourage those without a Socialist principle between them to find a natural home in the Lib Dems?

UNpalatable though it is I think we need to accept that in order to get the populus back to the left e need to do it by winning hearts and minds.
Corbyn is unlikely to do this

The membership love him, the PLP dont and the electorate are hard to predict

Whatever happens this serious squabbling is destructive to the party and the PLP are not going to STFU. I dont think the membership will either

I Predict carnage

Labour strongholds vote Labour in local elections and Labour in general elections

Well only 2/3 ish voted IN which was the official Labour policy on the EU Ref (although in fairness I bet most of them didn't know that as Labour's campaign was so low key).

Surely the focus should be on those who might vote Labour, as opposed to those who would slavishly vote for a dog turd if it had a red rosette on it?

Sounds like the talk of a Blairite red tory traitor to me....

Rusty Spanner - Member

I would be prepared to compromise, in order to maintain unity in the face of a GE, but how much?

I am easily prepared to compromise. My comprise would be a rule change which allows constituency Labour Parties and affiliates to nominate candidates in leadership elections. And then have another ballot to settle the matter.

As long as constituency Labour Parties and affiliates had the right to nominate leadership candidates I would be happy. At the moment the Parliamentary Labour Party has far too much power.

And if a Labour MP really has a problem with what his or her party wants then the obvious solution is for them is to consider leaving the party.

If I strongly disagreed with my party's decisions and couldn't accept them then that's what I would do. It's the sensible and democratic solution.

Those in the PLP with a shred of dignity would have done this before the referendum and in a very different way.

But timing and execution designed to create maximum damage?
It's pure egomania.

Many individual prominent members of the PLP have banked an awful lot on being irreplaceable.
Watching them find out that they are not might provide some consolation.

If I strongly disagreed with my party's decisions and couldn't accept them then that's what I would do.

Surely you could try and change people's minds? After all, a party with no differing opinions wouldn't be healthy either...

Ernie - you really are a true Corbynista. Like his supporters, you seem more intent on slagging off anyone who disagrees with the beardy messiah, than engaging in any of the issues raised.

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/21/poor-outlook-toxic-labour-jon-cruddas-report-welfare-immigration ]this is the reality in the 'northern heartlands'[/url]

This has been going on for decades, but it's gaining real momentum, because Jeremy refuses to let these issues be identified as issues. Electoral oblivion awaits, but we'll keep the Red Flag Flying in ever more irrelevent opposition Eh comrade?

, Labour is “largely a party of progressive, social liberals who value principles such as equality, sustainability, and social justice. It is losing connection with large parts of the voter population who are either pragmatists in their voting habits or social conservatives who value family, work, fairness and their country.”

Truthfully I am not sure WTF you want to do to appeal to these voters.

What exactly are you suggesting?

Is Burnham still loyal to Corbyn, or has he joined the revolt now?

JY - acknowledging they exist would be a start.

Andy is staying well out by 'Doing a Sadiq' and extricating himself from the car crash that is/was the shambles of the Corbyn front bench by becoming Mayor of Manchester, and having nothing to do with this whole sorry farce'

Very clever of him. He's not embroiled in it, and can watch from a distance while it looks like the Westminster Labour Party self-indulgently destroys itself, when it should be more relevant than ever, and representing the shrinking amount of people who still vote for them

It's truly tragic

My money's on David Miliband rocking up on a white charger as Labour candidate for the uncontested Birstall by election and then becoming leader.

The only issue I can see with that is that the membership probably wouldn't vote him in as leader even if he was the best chance Labour would have of winning the next election.

OK i acknowledge they exist. Now what ?

they think I sit in a ivory tower of liberal elitism and i think they are narrow minded "bigots"
.
Whats your plan for us all to get along and play nicely?

WHilst I am using STW language to describe this its a serious point.

What do you want me to do to win them back ? TBH i dont really want to be associated with them and the feelings mutual.
The left is in turmoil I get that but I dont see a solution
DO you?

It's only the Mayor of Manchester, a title no one really wants or cares about that much.

Amongst other things, I'd like his solemn word he had nothing to do with any of this before I ever considered voting for him though.