Jeremy Corbyn

Tactical manoeuvring because of the Chilcot report being announced soon is what some people suggest...he's right to wait to see what the grassroots want since they're the ones who put him where he is .....

if that's the case, that the £3 votes made no difference whatsoever to the outcome, and that essentially it was just a donation to party funds/dropped down the drain - then presumably the LP will repeat the £3 exercise in any upcoming leadership election? 😀

[quote=Rusty Spanner ]I've avoided most of the political threads recently.
Is it always like this?

It's in the forum rules - haven't you read them?

Perhaps what needs to happen is all those Labour MPs who don't like the way JC is taking the party should all resign and join the Lib Dems.

Labour would then be on the left, Lib Dems hold the centre ground and Conservative on the right.

Boom - back to 3 party politics! 😀

I've avoided most of the political threads recently.

Is it always like this?

No. Sometimes it's worse.

"Perhaps what needs to happen is all those Labour MPs who don't like the way JC is taking the party should all resign and join the Lib Dems.
Labour would then be on the left, Lib Dems hold the centre ground and Conservative on the right.
Boom - back to 3 party politics!"

That really is a good idea! Won't work though, they all hog the centre ground there the votes are.

Corbyn reminds me a bit of Stannis in Game of Thrones; highly principled but rigid to the point of obstinacy.

I wonder who his 'Ramsey' will be...

...they all hog the centre ground there the votes are.

Seems JC doesn't want that centre ground though, which just leaves one party to clean up.

ernie_lynch - Member
This isn't a coup against Corbyn, it's a coup against Labour Party members.

I'm not so sure. Corbyn was elected by party members, however since there hasn't really been any effective opposition during his tenure some might say that he hasn't performed and so this needs to be called out which is what the MPs have done. This should lead to a leadership election. Personally I think this is a good thing as we really need an effective opposition now.

Mind you if 85% of your team say they are not confident in you perhaps the sensible thing would be to stand down. But that's again another example of how naive he is and why he needs to go.

Shame as he is possibly the only honest politician out there 😥

In his defence, he's been on the back foot fighting off internal battles from day 1, so never really had any support or stability to help him get his message out. So I don't think we've ever had a chance to see what he could do (not that the media would bother reporting it as it doesn't fit their agenda either).

The only other (Labour) option seems to a Blairite / Tory Light party, with more austerity and crowning Blair a war hero after Chilcott.

effective opposition

What does effective opposition mean?

Tactical manoeuvring because of the Chilcot report being announced soon is what some people suggest

Well it is going to be published next Wednesday and the Blairites are going to be on the defensive, unless of course it exonerates Blair, Straw, etc, so now seems a good time to attack.

To be fair they've had this planned since the day Corbyn was first elected leader. However since Corbyn received more votes than all the other candidates put together they needed something pretty major to oust him.

So they have been patiently waiting for some great disaster to befall Labour.

With none coming and the possibility that none would come, as opinion polls showed increased support for Labour with them either level pegging or overtaking the Tories, and also Labour winning elections often with increased votes, they decided to blame Corbyn for the fact that over 17 million people voted to leave the EU.

Plus of course the "Corbyn is a loony hard-left friend of terrorists" narrative in the media had passed its use by date, as more people started to consider that Corbyn is in fact both quite moderate and a decent honest man.

Their patience seems to have run out.

What does effective opposition mean?

forming a sufficiently coherent, defensible and broadly popular argument against a government bill so as to convince sufficient of government's own members to vote with you and defy their whip.

In his defence, he's been on the back foot fighting off internal battles from day 1, so never really had any support or stability to help him get his message out. So I don't think we've ever had a chance to see what he could do (not that the media would bother reporting it as it doesn't fit their agenda either).

Also the whole media knew this whole brexit debate was really an fight for power in the tory party, they just didn't expect the ending we got. I barely saw a single labour politician given a chance to get a word in edgeways. Ben only popped his head above the parapet when it was all over to point his finger at Corbyn.

I now have an opinion.

Listen to some of his speeches in the leadership debates, and some of the things he's said since, then you might find out why he's so popular with Labour supporters.

The current disaster has been caused by self serving duplicitous scumbags who crave power.

I'd *much* rather be governed by a decent honest man who didn't want power.

Is it happy hour?

😀 Yep!

The right wing of politics has been enabling UKIP since its inception. In the last G.E the Tories had a pledge to reduce immigration to tens of thousands (pandering to UKIPers), this figure became a kind of par and made the actual net amount seem outrageous. Anyone who voted for a party that had a pledge to reduce immigration played their part in legitimizing this idea hence played their part in the Brexit vote.

In his defence, he's been on the back foot fighting off internal battles from day 1, so never really had any support or stability to help him get his message out. So I don't think we've ever had a chance to see what he could do (not that the media would bother reporting it as it doesn't fit their agenda either).

What does effective opposition mean?

I get that Corbyn wants to be portrayed as a decent honest man.

Unfortunately my definition of honest is different to yours. In my old fashioned view honest men don't say one thing and do another.

If he wanted to leave he should have damn well have said so.

I'd *much* rather be governed by a decent honest man who didn't want power.

Only one problem with that noble sentiment - at some point you have to exercise power and leadership. It has been obvious from the start that Corbyn was the wrong man at the wrong time. Hence his own plea, to "make sure I don't win."

How obvious does it need to be - I guess the choice of the next leader will tell us.

Fair comment - perhaps a stronger leader would have handled that differently though.

Too much change too quickly. The Blairites / Polly Toynbee journos still cling on to their ideal of Champagne Socialism and desire to live like Tony Blair, ringing in £m whilst courting dictators, whilst thinking about the poor occasionally.

I think Game of Thrones is a good political analogy, JC is the High Sparrow and Magaret Hodge is Olenna Tyrell.

It's a tough one but in the end it doesn't matter if it's a hostile media and an unruly parliamentary party that are to blame. If Jeremy Corbyn can't hold the government to account and convince the electorate that he is somebody capable of forming a government, then he shouldn't stay as leader.

It doesn't feel that the country is ready for Jeremy Corbyn's new politics. Labour's membership wants a more left wing leader than they've had in the past few years and that is their right but they also need one who is capable of dragging their parliamentary party along with them and who is aggressive (or at least assertive) enough to keep the pressure on the government. Whether Labour's MPs are being wickedly disloyal or are genuinely concerned about Labour's electoral chances is almost besides the point - they're the MPs Labour has and to get where you're going you have to start with where you're at now.

I don't know how the electoral appeal of the left wing is going to play out. Many are plainly convinced that it isn't large enough to secure the Labour party an election victory. Yet it is plainly a more energised part of the party than its more centrist elements. The question there is whether there is yet untapped left wing support that will come out in a general election or if those who voted Corbyn into the Labour leadership are all or most of who can be reached with that message.

Listen to some of his speeches in the leadership debates, and some of the things he's said since, then you might find out why he's so popular with Labour supporters.

It's worth remembering that after the House of Commons "let's bomb Syria" debate in which Corbyn stood before the Labour benches and put the argument against, while Hilary Benn put the argument for, 152 Labour MPs voted with Corbyn against bombing Syria, while only 66 voted with Hilary Benn in favour.

You could say that this was an example of forming a sufficiently coherent, defensible and broadly popular argument against a government bill so as to convince sufficient of government's own members to vote with you and defy their whip.

So if Corbyn lacks "leadership qualities" then it seems rather possible that Hilary Benn lacks them even more.

Although unsurprisingly despite very clearly being the loser in the debate Hilary Benn was actually hailed as the winner by the media.

You couldn't make it up.

This country needs an effective opposition more than any time in recent history, to try and curtail an ultra right wing Tory party, with a clean sheet of paper, ripping up workers rights, and human rights.

Jeremy Corbyn isn't it.

The fact that he can't even see that confirms it.

BY clinging on he demonstrates that he's as self-regarding as Boris

In my old fashioned view honest men don't say one thing and do another.

Very obvious that he has been forced to play the game to some extent. So people like you are complaining that he played it, and people like THM complaining that he doesn't play it enough.

Now you see how impossible politics is? And amongst all this bullshit, the country has to be actually run. What a load of bollocks.

Corbyn's approach has been to simply say what he would like to see, and let people realise that they agree with him. Sadly, that seems not to be enough for the hysterical idiotic circus we find ourselves part of. What a shame that is.

BY clinging on he demonstrates that he's as self-regarding as Boris

Well no, not really. His problem is that huge numbers of people voted for him. And if he leaves and betrays them, the party itself will lose a huge amount of support. This is the huge issue faced by the Labour party.

Although unsurprisingly despite very clearly being the loser in the debate Hilary Benn was actually hailed as the winner by the media.

Benn's was an embarrasingly emotional speech. 10/10 for delivery 0/10 for content.

So if Corbyn lacks "leadership qualities" then it seems rather possible that Hilary Benn lacks them even more.

True but its not a race to the bottom - or is it?

Binners +1 Does the elephant have to actually tread on him? Either that or its a bloody big room.

nd people like THM complaining that he doesn't play it enough.

Not sure what that means Mol. Its a simple issue - is he a leader or not? From the outset the answer has been clear. Its even clearer now. Its just odd that people find it so hard to see.

[quote=Andy ]Nicola Sturgeon springs to mind. Came out of the blocks on Friday flying making her presence felt and used it to get Scotland right in the news and make the Scots think about things.

But she was doing that from a position of leadership with a popular mandate behind her. What have the SNP done as an effective opposition in the parliament where they are in opposition? (not that you can give credit or blame Sturgeon for that one way or the other - she has no status there)

Benn's was an embarrasingly emotional speech. 10/10 for delivery 0/10 for content.

Which can be paraphrased as 'It worked for Blair. 😉

[url= https://c3.staticflickr.com/8/7241/27262387754_76cf2b1095_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://c3.staticflickr.com/8/7241/27262387754_76cf2b1095_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/Hx5S5b ]Chillcot defense[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/ ]Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr

His problem is that huge numbers of [b]angry smeggy[/b] people voted for him.

Indeed. His text-a-mob are on his side at the moment. If he jacks it in, they're going to be blaming him and I suspect it'll turn nasty.

That one needs redoing - "will **** up my own country for votes" (sorry, way OT, nothing to do with Labour)

I barely saw a single labour politician given a chance to get a word in edgeways.

The Remain campaign cleared whole days in the campaign to give Labour the opportunity to speak - one of the gripes now is that they didn't use that opportunity.

is he a leader or not?

Well it's debatable. He made a statement and set the tone. It just wasn't the tone that the media or the PLP wanted.

I get that Corbyn wants to be portrayed as a decent honest man.

Does he? Just because everyone is queuing up to tell the media that Corbyn is a decent honest man doesn't mean that he's set them up to say that, most of them are actually his enemies.

Tony Blair [i]definitely[/i] wanted to be portrayed as a decent honest man.

In fact just in case we didn't know, he made a point of telling us.

[img] [/img]

The moral of the story - never trust a politician who tells you that he is a decent honest man, or words to that effect.

The Remain campaign cleared whole days in the campaign to give Labour the opportunity to speak

I'm sure your right, but Linky?

His problem is that huge numbers of angry smeggy people voted for him.

if you mean, by that, over 200k new Labour members, myself included, then yes he has a lot of support.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jan/13/revealed-how-jeremy-corbyn-has-reshaped-the-labour-party

I'm sure your right, but Linky?

[url= https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1269803/nervous-cameron-asks-labour-to-take-the-wheel-of-remain-campaign-as-race-tightens/ ]The Sun[/url]

[url= https://twitter.com/rafaelbehr/status/747094281362472960 ]Guardian journalist on Twitter[/url]

Jeremy Corbyn isn't it.

This. I mean really, it's pretty irrelevant that the members voted for him and want him to stay. He just can't do the job, irrespective of the media, blairite critics, neo-liberal conspiracy theories etc. Christ, he couldn't even hold a photoshoot today without making himself look like an arse. He is no doubt a decent, honest, principled man, and that's why I voted for him in september. But you can't be a potential prime minister if the basic competence isn't there. Self awareness and some humility need to come into it too.

If the brexit vote had gone the other way, and we were still looking at a 2020 election, I'd still advocate giving him more time, but that's not a luxury that can be afforded any longer.

f you mean, by that, over 200k new Labour members, myself included, then yes he has a lot of support.

Whilst I'm sure you fully meet the smeggy criteria, 🙂 I was actually talking about the rent a mob who have been visible in the news over the last two days and who assaulted staff and journos at the BIC centre a while back.

That one needs redoing - "will * up my own country for votes"

You think that the Country that Blair left us with in 2007 was worse than the one he started with in 1997?

Would you care to tell us in which area?

NHS waiting lists? Increased poverty? Higher unemployment? Minimum wage? Less fair taxation? Higher immigration?

I'm not disregarding your argument, in fact I think there are clearly areas where it holds, I would just like to hear the actual criteria on which you are basing your opinion that he *ed up the country.

jeez ninfan, I did point out it had nothing to do with Labour

I rated Blair's domestic policy (according to A Journey the overspending wasn't his fault - he tried) but his foreign policy means I see men with missing limbs walk around a fair bit in the UK and that never used to be so.

But you can't be a potential prime minister if the basic competence isn't there.

Is you face blue yet dazh? 😉

Thanks Mefty, never doubted you.

@ Aracer - what, you mean the rest of them that ran the country with him were "only obeying orders"?

Get yourself into the Red Labour Facebook page. This is Corbyns core support.

They're insane! Utterly hatstand!!!

The fact that these people are presently holding the Labour Party to ransom. It's proper middle class 6th form common room bollocks. Pathetic! The fact that they're more interested in gay marriage than the fact that the countries economy is presently going down the tubes tells you everything you need to know.

He.... and them.... Need to **** off and let the grown ups put together a decent opposition to what is going to be the most right wing government this country has ever seen

Is you face blue yet dazh

Like I said earlier, I never had him down as PM material, I was in agreement with Owen Jones on that one. Sadly things have been overtaken by events, as often happens in politics. I'm not convinced Angela Eagle will be any better though.

it's pretty irrelevant that the members voted for him and want him to stay.

Well not really, since someone's got to actually vote for him in a GE. Ignoring that many party supporters isn't a good thing either.

But you can't be a potential prime minister if the basic competence isn't there

Competence at what, specifically? I'm not denying your argument, I'm just examining what these things really mean.. and if we actually know.

I dont know binners there's a comment on there now below Tony with the line

"This is the man who told most of you to stay in the EU"

😀

Is it a parody facebook page or the real thing?

Like I said earlier, I never had him down as PM material, I was in agreement with Owen Jones on that one. Sadly things have been overtaken by events, as often happens in politics. I'm not convinced Angela Eagle will be any better though.

Who? 😉

No you are right there. It really is a bit of a shambles isn't it.

Effective opposition?
Sorry, but that would appear to be UKIP now.

If you support the Labour Party, it's ideals and principles, stay and fix it.

If actually believing in something is a bit like hard work, other parties are available.

It's a big tent, but with no room for traitors and cowards.
There's even a song about it.

🙂

It's the real deal THM. Ed Millibands parting gesture was to hand control of tge Labour Party to these ****-wits. He's actually done more damage to labour than Blair invading Iraq!

He's cast them out to electoral oblivion. If there's a leadership election tomorrow, these muppets will re-elect Corbyn. And they'll be really pleased with themselves. Because they're awful middle class lefties, who will stand by and moan about equal rights for one-armed, free range, organic hermaphrodite marriage, while the Tory party take a torch to workers rights
They are the very worst human beings on the planet

From your own link mefty :

[i]DAVID Cameron tore up his EU referendum battle plan last night amid mounting fears Britain is heading for the Brexit door.

The panicking PM will let Labour lead the fight to try to convince working-class voters they will be worse off if we leave.[/i]

So the "battle plan" was that the Tories would take the lead and that plan was torn up 10 days before the referendum when it was decided to let Labour get more involved. According to the Sun.

Well that's not the most convincing argument that Labour were given equal access by the media with regards to putting their case for remaining in the EU.

Of course the elephant in the room is that we all know that the Tory vision of Europe is completely different to Labour's vision of Europe.

The Tories back more privatization, austerity, and dodgy trade deals with the US, while Labour, well certainly Corbyn, wants completely different reforms to the EU to the Tories, no more privatization, no counter-productive austerity, and definitely no dodgy trade deals with the US.

For Labour and the Tories to stand side by side and argue from completely different perspectives would have been ridiculous. A lesson which was learnt after the Scottish referendum and which many didn't want to repeat.

No you are right there. It really is a bit of a shambles isn't it.

The other option is the man who posted the most comically timed selfie in political history. Maybe Corbyn is a better option after all? 😀

[img] [/img]

The choice of drink in T.Watson's hand is epic.

Thatcher's Gold.

😆

Relax binns, although that was funny!! 😉

Binners, what to do?

Another move to the centre ground?
We might as well just merge with the Lib Dems.
The current structure is rotten and untrustworthy anyway.

JC can't continue now, we know that.
Burnham is the obvious choice, if he can keep a knife out of his back long enough to win the members round.

They are the very worst human beings on the planet

Don't be so ****ing ridiculous binners 🙁

Another move to the centre ground?
We might as well just merge with the Lib Dems.

Now why hasn't anyone though of that before?!? 😀

With all the parties in a mess, there is almost an 'end of civilization" feel about what is going on.

#outofcontrol

Burnham is the obvious choice, if he can keep a knife out of his back long enough to win the members round.

Boris etc will think it's Christmas if he replaces Corbyn

Burnham is the obvious choice

Apparently he is going to resign from shadow cabinet, he really is the man who tries to catch a bandwagon just after its left the stop. Burnham is political history - would make Corbyn look effective.

So who's coordinating this? Someone must have planned who was resigning and when to keep the steady drip-drip going. It was being planned in mid June:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/13/labour-rebels-hope-to-topple-jeremy-corbyn-in-24-hour-blitz-afte/

Burnham is the obvious choice

Obvious to whom? And chosen by whom? He already tried and was not as popular as the man who was chosen...

Not sure who can view this but:

binners - Member

It's the real deal THM. Ed Millibands parting gesture was to hand control of tge Labour Party to these ****-wits. He's actually done more damage to labour than Blair invading Iraq!

He's cast them out to electoral oblivion. If there's a leadership election tomorrow, these muppets will re-elect Corbyn. And they'll be really pleased with themselves. Because they're awful middle class lefties, who will stand by and moan about equal rights for one-armed, free range, organic hermaphrodite marriage, while the Tory party take a torch to workers rights
They are the very worst human beings on the planet
Posted 27 minutes ago # Report-Post

Interesting binners, nearer the start of this thread you were claiming that Corbyn's enemies were all middle-class :

binners - Member

I do love the Guardian as it's still the most entertaining paper out there. I still buy it every day. But it does amuse me the labour cheerleading from Polly Toynbee and her ilk, sending us the view of what british politics looks like from Tuscany. Or from their 3 million quid Islington pads. It's apt really, as they're as clueless as the Labour Party for much the same reason.

It's no wonder they've come out against Corbyn. He's as terrifying and alien to them as someone northern, working class, or scottish. They like to stay in their nice, comfortable, upper middl class, bollocks-talking, London-centric metropolitan bubble, just like the Labour Party
Posted 11 months ago # Report-Post

Now today you are claiming that all Corbyn's supporters are middle-class.

Have you considered a career in politics ?

I find you ability to change your argument according to which way the wind is blowing impressive. Specially your ability to say the same thing to make two completely opposing points.

With that level of opportunism you would go far in politics. Slippery politicians always do.

I dunno.

I'm usually free a couple of days midweek and happy to cover alternate weekends?

Has he gone yet BTW?

Well that's not the most convincing argument that Labour were given equal access by the media with regards to putting their case for remaining in the EU.

I didn't make that argument just refuted suggestion they were closed out.

Reluctance to share platforms is understandable from a party perspective post Scotland.

What is your view on te merits of the arguments Labour MPs have a duty of care to voters - not just members?

Frank Field obvious to me. Sacked by Blair and most definitely not on the Blairite wing and most certainly a labour man with a practical idea of the way forward.

Do you not get it Ernie? 11 months between my posts? You may have noticed that there's just the odd little thing that's happened in that time? It turned out that, in the end, this was a little middle class islington spat between the Polly Toynbee Guardianistas and their offspring.

The Labour Party, such as it is, couldn't find their 'northern heartlands' on a map. Same as Scotland. It's a pathetically inward looking islington thing. Think anyone up north is looking at this with anything less than weary resignation?

Meanwhile, in the real world that they're supposedly, laughably meant to represent.....

What is your view on te merits of the arguments Labour MPs have a duty of care to voters - not just members?

My view is that they were elected as Labour MPs, if electorate didn't want a Labour candidate to represent them then they would have voted for someone else.

This however is quite irrelevant to the present situation. The MPs are claiming that they are motivated by an alleged desire to increase Labour's chances of winning a general election, ie, Labour will lose the next GE if Corbyn is still leader.

Are people seriously saying that it is the duty of Labour MPs to put Labour interests first, while at the same time these same people are saying that it's the duty of Labour MPs not to put Labour interests first?

How remarkable.

They need to grow a pair and put their challenge to the membership. This is utterly cowardly.

Lisa Nandy would be a good leader.

Gaitskell - note 1:05 - 1:50

Rolf Harris would have more chance of winning a general election than Corbyn. He is utterly ****ing hopeless! Clueless! He's as wrapped up in his islington bubble as Polly Toynbee. Oh the irony!

If he's still in charge, while the Tory party pull us out of Europe, dismantle the welfare state, NHS, etc while he indulges his pathetic student posturing then he will finish the Labour Party for ever!

My view is that they were elected as Labour MPs, if electorate didn't want a Labour candidate to represent them then they would have voted for someone else

Some them will have a local following, it is overly simplistic to suggest that they only win because they are Labour.

I think they are saying that they have a duty to form an effective opposition which they don't believe they are under the current leadership.

binners - Member

Do you not get it Ernie? 11 months between my posts?

Well of course I get it.....that's my point. Today :

binners - Member

Ed Millibands parting gesture was to hand control of tge Labour Party to these *-wits. He's actually done more damage to labour than Blair invading Iraq!

10 months ago :

binners - Member

Just read them now Ernie. What a tool that bloke is. Ironically, I bet the beardy one is his MP. Well the article has led to me doing 2 things:

1. Cancelling my Guardian subscription. This was the final straw in their concerted 'Corbyn will usher in the end of days' bleating.
2. Registering as a labour supporter to vote for Corbyn

I'm probably not alone in either
Posted 10 months ago # Report-Post

So 10 months ago you thought it was a good idea to pay 3 quid and vote in the Labour leadership election. Today you refer to it as Ed Millibands parting gesture which handed control of the Labour Party to *-wits. And you claim that Miliband has actually done more damage to Labour than Blair did invading Iraq.

I trust your judgement about as much as I trust most politicians judgement, if you don't mind me saying. Which is why I suggested a career in politics.

And btw I can understand why you feel let down by Corbyn, it's obvious that you attach a lot of importance to a damn good rant. It doesn't what you're ranting about, it doesn't even matter if it completely contradicts your previous rant, just as long as you ranting.

Is that correct?

I think I'll pop back later when everyone's calmed down a bit.

😀

Just to clear I enjoy binners rants, they are quite unique. And he enters territories others dare not go.

I particularly liked "Rolf Harris would have more chance of winning a general election than Corbyn", that's quite a rant. And who else would have thought of it?

And I do like how whatever the problem it's always the middle-classes fault. And btw middle-class is anyone who isn't a northerner, typified by those who are wrapped up in their Islington bubble - Islington is a recurring theme. Earlier in the thread when he was one of Corbyn's most vocal supporters I had to tactfully point out that Corbyn is actually an Islington MP.

You've got to give it to Ernie, he's got a good memory and he really does like a good archive trawl.

So; this non binding vote of no confidence by lots of Labour MPs who have never had any confidence in Corbyn and have been planning this day for ages. What does it actually tell us that wasn't already blindingly obvious? That the PLP don't like Corbyn? No shit Sherlock. At least it's [i]officially[/i] out in the open now; no more of this nice to his face, busily briefing against him behind his back bollocks. I completely agree that he hasn't been effective as a leader of Labour so far, but that's because he's been trying to herd cats in a battle against the vacuous fog of a hostile media. The Labour Party as we currently know it is finished. The PLP don't represent the grass roots and probably neither represent their 'traditional' core vote; that's divided between UKIP, the SNP and the Tories now. And it's not coming back soon. The Tories are screwed too, and the LibDems have been an irrelevance for a good while. I have no idea what is going to happen (and nor does anyone else, that's obvious) in UK politics, but I'm fairly concerned that it's not going to be pretty. At the risk of invoking Godwin, 1930s Europe would not be to far away from the historical period that people could do with looking to for lessons to learn. Nastiness stalks the streets of the U.K., having been incubating for some time but massively emboldened by recent events. And we have a political vacuum that will surely be exploited by someone charismatic and nasty.

Bad times.