Jeremy Corbyn

Roy gone for the playground tactics of how maxing out on strikers.

How rubbish and one dimensional is Stirling, you just show him down the line and get the tackle or block in, easy for any half decent right back.

Jambalaya; you're wasting your time directing any words at me other than an overdue apology and retraction of your accusation of anti-semitism. You may somehow feel that running scared out of that thread and pretending it never happened resolves matters; it does not. It's only to your further discredit that you now think you can talk to me like it never happened.

Sorry, everyone else, but it needed saying. Meanwhile, is there football on or something?

Northwind I am ketting things calm down. Lets be absoluely clear I will be back on that thread in a very big way when the reprort is published,

I stand by everything I said on that thread including the clarificatiob of my remarks

I OWE YOU ABSOLUTELY NOTHING

Unfortunately I cannot be back in London for a pro Israel counter demonstrarion againat the Hamas and other terroist apologists next weekend

I reckon Corbyn just wants to hang on until Chilcott so he can castigate Blair.

Chilcott will almost certainly tell the British people some fairly unpleasant things about a former Labour prime minister.

While most people are fully aware that Tony Blair was a deceitful liar being severely criticized in an official report will have a deeper more profound meaning.

This report will not do the Labour Party any good, especially as it will very likely also severely criticize other Labour politicians such as Jack Straw.

It will imo damage the Labour Party. This will be reflected in public support and approval for the Labour Party. I fully expect it to effect Labour's standing in opinion polls and any possible elections/by-elections in the near future.

Any drop in support for Labour will automatically be blamed on Corbyn by the Blairites and their media friends.

The fact that Jeremy Corbyn was an outspoken critic of Blair's disastrous warmongering policies will be completely ignored.

Anything that is wrong with the Labour Party is Jeremy Corbyn's fault. While positive things like increased majorities in by-elections and Labour winning the London mayoral election have nothing to do with him.

On another note a hugely significant development has occurred.

A year ago the Blairites, the Tories, and the media, characterized Jeremy Corbyn as a loony-leftie with extreme hard-left views which were completely out of touch with Labour voters, and for that reason would spell electoral Armageddon for Labour.

A year on it's become clear to most people that these claims were completely false.

So the tactic has now completely changed. As his enemies queued up to stab him yesterday, with complete disregard the damage it is causing Labour, I noted with intense interest how they invariably went to great pain to emphasize what an honest and decent person Corbyn is, even Hilary Benn did so.

They know that they can no longer fool the public with the loony-leftie extremist friend of terrorists bollocks. Now the criticism is almost solely based on the claim that he lacks [i]"leadership qualities"[/i].

And yes he does those lack those qualities which we come to expect from leaders of political parties......tub-thumbing, devious, question-dodging, slippery, sound-biting, scheming, etc. Sometimes he doesn't even sound like a politician.

And that is precisely his appeal - people are fed up with politicians. Especially with question-dodging, lying, devious, sound-biting, dishonest, scheming, conviction-lacking, politicians.

Of course whether it's enough to win a general election is another matter. But politics imo is changing, and not just here but also in other countries. And Jeremy Corbyn is part of that change.

Your positivity is warming Ernie - you are as loyal as dear Diane holding his mike today. Good for you.

as loyal as dear Diane holding his mike today.

Is that what he calls it?

@ernie did you see the prevelance of Socialist Worker members at the Corbyn rally tonight, Labour members where saying they where significantly out numbered

Corbyn is a busted flush. Anyone who's not a diehard Corbynite can see it (especially if you watch the Vice doco on him). I wish the Labour party would appoint a credible alternative to the Tories (and UKIP), I don't care who. Our democracy needs it.

[quote=corroded ] Our democracy needs it.Our democracy does not need two parties making the same promises and implementing the same policies in order to attract the votes of the same marginal constituencies. The Leave vote surely showed that there are many voters looking for another answer - one not provided by Tory or Tory-lite.

I've never voted Tory or Labour but the next Tory leader will be the biggest arsehole ever.
I will need to vote against them and that will mean labour. With Corbyn in charge that will be a wasted vote. Burnham seems alright.

Your positivity is warming Ernie

Did I sound positive? I certainly didn't mean to.

I would have thought that there was a clue here :

Any drop in support for Labour will automatically be blamed on Corbyn by the Blairites and their media friends.

The fact that Jeremy Corbyn was an outspoken critic of Blair's disastrous warmongering policies will be completely ignored.

Anything that is wrong with the Labour Party is Jeremy Corbyn's fault. While positive things like increased majorities in by-elections and Labour winning the London mayoral election have nothing to do with him.

You think that sounds positive from my perspective?

And in my next post I said :

his enemies queued up to stab him yesterday, with complete disregard the damage it is causing Labour

You think I believe that is a positive thing?

Either I need to express myself better or you need to reconsider what positive might mean.

corroded - Member

I wish the Labour party would appoint a credible alternative to the Tories

I'm surprised to hear you say that based on what I've seen you post on STW. What have you got against the Tories?

people are fed up with politicians

As they are with experts. Look where that's got us.

As usual. I expect that you know what I meant - positivity towards a guy who was obviously in the wrong job at the worn time with the wrong people.

What next - Angela Eagle?

Its bad enough watching the Tories implode, but for Labour to do the same thing at the same time is breathtakingly incompetent.

& not Corbyn's fault. Burnham got behind him why couldn't the rest of them?

Angela Eagle's crocodile tears were transparent. This lot clearly had a Brexit plan unlike the others!

Alan Johnson not getting any blame?

positivity towards a guy who was obviously in the wrong job at the worn time with the wrong people.

Positivity towards Corbyn? Well 9 months ago he won the leadership election with 60% of the vote, more than any other person in Labour Party history, that's quite positive by anyone's reckoning - or are you suggesting that I'm putting spin on it?

And most people accept that he would probably win another contest if he was allowed to be on the ballot paper, that sounds quite positive too.

It's clear that Corbyn has some significant appeal, I've tried to suggest what that appeal might be based on. I also pointed out that many people are put off by politicians - are you disputing that?

But if you are commenting about how I personally feel about Corbyn I support him but I'm certainly not his number one fan. He's good on issues such as peace but he's significantly to the right of me on other issues, I consider John Mcdonnell to be closer to me.

And I have repeatedly criticized him on here for doing absolutely nothing at all to re-introduce democracy into the Labour Party.

So despite strongly supporting Corbyn I'm not necessarily his biggest fan. I just recognize that he is better than Miliband, Brown, and Blair. And he's certainly better than the overwhelming majority of Labour MPs. He listens and he's not self-serving, I like that.

Does that answer the question, or was your comment just an excuse to make a cheap jibe about holding his mike?

Perfectly thank you. Where do you get the sepia frames from? I would love a pair...

t

Oh of course, there's nothing positive to be said about Corbyn. For someone who claims to be highly educated I'm staggered by just how dumb you can appear, specially your dependency on puerile comments such as references to "holding his mike" and "Where do you get the sepia frames from? I would love a pair". It's like arguing with a 12 year old ffs.

I'm surprised to hear you say that based on what I've seen you post on STW. What have you got against the Tories?

I've only posted on political threads in the last few days. Usually I avoid them because the usual suspects are arguing in the usual circles. But extraordinary times… My feeling is that a credible and forceful opposition is required to keep the Tories on the straight and narrow. I say that as a Tory. Corbyn is not that opposition.

I don't get all these Tories wanting a credible opposition. Is this code for we want another centre right party in opposition to let us get away with stuff?

You surely have all noticed Corbyn holding the govt to account many times? Forcing U-turns on policy etc?

I don't get all these Tories wanting a credible opposition

What mistakes are you thinking of ?

When even Tories are wishing Labour had a better leader, you know that [s]something must be wrong[/s] they are lying and/or plotting with a barely concealed ulterior motive.

Seems that way but I just can't get my head round it. Maybe being kind they want another centre right option to vote for?

Oh of course, there's nothing positive to be said about Corbyn.

Really? Make your mind up.....

For someone who claims to be highly educated I'm staggered by just how dumb you can appear, specially your dependency on puerile comments such as references to "holding his mike" and "Where do you get the sepia frames from? I would love a pair". It's like arguing with a 12 year old ffs.

12? How very dare you. It was 13 last week and I do try to pitch it correctly.

BTW who is drawing a puerile interpretation of his old bird standing next to him at the rally "holding his mike"? Never even crossed my mind - sounds a very childish level of humour that 😉

But relax my old china. Have a brew. The demise of Corbyn is less stressful for the rest of us as it was so obvious from the start. But I appreciate having a genuine old school (that's not a reference to dress sense BTW) socialist floundering so badly and so pubically must be upsetting after all these years. You have my sympathies.

Look on the bright side you were on the winning side last week and you can stop all those nasty foreigners coming in now. It's far more upsetting for those of us who preferred to welcome them.

Just to confirm @thm you think everyone who voted leave is racist?

teamhurtmore - Member

Look on the bright side you were on the winning side last week and you can stop all those nasty foreigners coming in now. It's far more upsetting for those of us who preferred to welcome them.

I did ask last week why he was so keen to leave the EU but so against Scotland leaving the UK.

"It's far more upsetting for those of us who preferred to welcome them."

...as long as they come from an EU country.

Ducks, that is blindingly obvious. After all this time, you should have worked it out, But if in doubt I have posted a little primer for you on the indy2 thread. Enjoy.

Ctk, has anyone said that?

Guardian and BBC are alleging that Corbyn and his team deliberately sabotaged the Remain campaign. That's a pretty serious allegation and if true shows how unfit Corbyn is for any role in government.

Was there any doubt ?

Eagle said pretty much the same thing yesterday.

@thm it was when you said "keep out nasty foreigners when I prefer to welcome them"

Assumed you were talking generally.

It's ****ing disgusting, I can't stand Farage or Gove but a least they said they want to leave, for Corbyn to say one thing and do the other is disgusting. Rather ruins his idea of a new kinder politics (not that I ever believed that anyway.

Hang on, has it been proven? Or are some people with vested interests stirring shit?

Boris was pro EU a couple of months ago.

then he was not for the campaign then he was when he won

Indeed why focus on corbyn when Boris is the master behind all this and we all know he did show no principles in this and he did it for personal gain- tories and their chums like to go a sinning and look elsewhere rather than at themselves. that sais the PLP are helping them enormously in this goal

Corbyn and his team deliberately sabotaged the Remain campaign

the problem is the guardian and the BBC hate him with a passion
the guardian in particular will accuse him of anything - they loathe him beyond words. The BBC has been some way from impartial in the way they cover Corbyn as well

Obvs the corbyn haters will jump on the bandwagon

Wrong assumption - I was being very specific

My mistake @thm.

Didn't Cameron stop people in his office going after Boris with both barrels? Stopped personalised attacks on Boris. A poster with Boris in Farage's pocket was the example used iirc

teamhurtmore - Member

Ducks, that is blindingly obvious.

Actually it isn't, money wasn't the reason iirc.

Stopping personal attacks is a good thing.

Actually it isn't, money wasn't the reason iirc.

Never mind....you just carry on

Guardian and BBC are alleging that Corbyn and his team deliberately sabotaged the Remain campaign.

Some of us on here made the same observation a while ago. In a democracy you get what you vote for and this is what the Labour Party voted for

The Guardian and BBC are just making statements of the obvious. In the Guardian's case they want to see a Labour government and its been clear to many of us for a very long time that Corbyn guarantees a diminshed Labour party in electoral terms

Being reported that upton 150 Labour MPs will vote "no confidemce" I really wonder how bad those MPs who put Corbyn on the ballot must be feeling now

The BBC and the Guardian are certainly singing to the Jamby choir who obvs cares deeply about the labour party and would see them as credible were it any other leader

the guardian has flip flopped about on labour support of late and chose the lib dems in 2010 and labour in the last GE. I suspect they will go back to the centre ground with the lib dems again unless the labour party elect a lib dem as leader or a very centrist leader.

Cant help yourself eh THM?

Actually it isn't, money wasn't the reason [b]he gave[/b] iirc.

Yes I can thanks - but taking "candy off babies" (metaphorically speaking) is rather unfulfilling

KS2 macroeconomics is next week....

Back to Corbyn - has he gone yet?

Please carry on as you are Junky

I am interested in a credible opposition, I would vote for a centre-ist party which af present the Labour party is showing no signs of becoming.

I wanted Corbyn as leader of Labour as I wanted the idea of a firmly left government put to bed for a very long time. So far he's delivering. May he continue until that job is done

the problem is the guardian and the BBC hate him with a passion

This, for some reason the Guardian were portraying Corbyn as the Devil before he'd even been elected as leader; they've had it in for him from day 1. Probably because if he ever did win an election, Polly Toynbee would be paying a lot more tax....

Perhaps they have experience of examining the clothing of emperors?

teamhurtmore - Member

I post,you troll...How do you fit in those what;11 papers a day?

😀

Bless - go on then, a black wine gum please

So quick poll, should he stay or go?

Regrettably I'm a go. I never thought he'd get to the 2020 election mainly because I don't believe he actually wants to be PM (I have a friend in the party who reckons it's pretty much common knowledge that this is the case). It would have been good if he could have seen through his party reforms, but the brexit vote and high chance of a new election have changed things irrevocably, and I hope that in any election labour will campaign on an anti-brexit ticket along with the libdems and the SNP. It stands to reason Corbyn is not the leader to do that.

enough said - it does indeed stand to reason

Go and quickly

Stay and get rid of all ye traitors!

Seriously, I don't want a Tory lite Labour party.

I want him to stay. If he survives the night of the long knives then the decks will be cleared for a new generation, Burnham (if he stays loyal) will be in position as loyal deputy and heir apparent to come 2020 to take over a young fresh and invigorated socially responsible REAL Labour Party.

Or something. Who knows. But the traitorous evidently fairly right wing 'labour' MPs don't seem to represent anything I want to vote for and should not be rewarded for their treachery.

I am interested in a credible opposition, I would vote for a centre-ist party

I cannot decide whether to ask you to stop trolling or just continue to get the belly laughs

Corbyn is a dead man walking and essentially he can fall on his sword or he can split the party / have more of this fr his entire leadership

the real issue is whether the membership wins or the PLP wins

The reality is that a centre left party is more likely to win than a radically left wing HOWEVER the labour party do need to engage and win back some of its core voters

http://order-order.com/2016/06/28/seumas-bad-idea/

On the one hand Governments are best held to account by an effective and intelligent opposition.

On the other hand, the £3 I paid to help him, as I told my local Labour party "do to the party what the party did to the country", is providing excellent value for money.

I am really conflicted on whether I want him to stay in place or not.

The reality is that a centre left party is more likely to win than a radically left wing HOWEVER the labour party do need to engage and win back some of its core voters

Some might suggest that the best way to do that would have been to back an out vote...

Superb!(Nice edit btw)

Junkyard The reality is that a centre left party is more likely to win than a radically left wing HOWEVER the labour party do need to engage and win back some of its core voters

Some might suggest that the best way to do that would have been to back an out vote...

In a roundabout way, they kind of did...

[url= https://medium.com/@OwenJones84/my-thoughts-on-the-plight-of-labour-38413229f88#.9zo78sabc ]Seems I was on the right lines...[/url]

"A confession. There was a plan that, along with others, I subscribed to. The general election was scheduled to take place in 2020; two years or so before, a younger left-wing member of the new intake would take Jeremy Corbyn’s place."

44 bloody good effort

Where the hell did he find 40 people in the entire Uk who don't think he's a complete waste of space? 😯

Croydon?

Henry Cline and his posse?

Whats the betting we get a leader of the oppo who is even worse?

Now Jezza - as I said about 100pages ago - go and found a left wing, socialist party with your grass roots support.

So there'll be another leadership election. Only question is, will the membership still want the Socialist Workers Party headed by Corbyn to be the opposition in the Commons?

duckman - Member

I did ask last week why he was so keen to leave the EU but so against Scotland leaving the UK.

Sorry duckman I don't read every post, there was no deliberate attempt to avoid answering that question.

I'm not sure what you mean by "so against Scotland leaving the UK".

I thought it was a mistake for Scotland to leave the UK, and I didn't hear any compelling arguments to suggest otherwise. With that in mind I thought it would be both bad for Scotland and bad for the UK if Scotland voted to leave the UK. But I certainly didn't feel intensely passionate about the issue. And btw I would feel the same about any other region of the UK - it's not a thing about Scotland.

I feel completely different about the EU. I consider the EU to be a very dangerous aggressive regressive project which aims to, and increasingly does, take power (limited as it is) away from the people and shift into the hands of bankers, industrialists, the powerful, the elite. It puts the markets before the people.

And however difficult some Scots might think it is we can defeat the ruling party in Westminster. Even if we don't and we have to live under governments which we oppose we can still bear enormous pressure on them - there is always a constant stream of U-turns and redirections.

EU directives cannot be defeated, only implemented.

So for those reasons and others, for the good of the UK and all of Europe, I strongly, passionately, support leaving the EU.

If the price of leaving the EU is Scotland going her own way then I think it is a price worth paying. The interests of the 90% outweigh the interests of the 10%.

Despite my deep commitment to fraternity out of the EU is imo more important than in with Scotland. I would bid a sad but resolute farewell.

EDIT : BTW I was only ever lukewarm in my opposition to the EEC. Maastricht changed that - as the power of the EU grew so did my opposition to it. A phenomenon which we are increasingly witnessing throughout Europe.

Its not clear there will be a leadership election as unlike the Tories they don't have a formal rule (that's my understanding). Reported Watson and Eagle will try and get enough Mps between them that Corbyn won't get the 50 he needs for a place on the ballot

Sky had some interesting coverage, there was going to be a shadow cabinet meeting then Corbyn called over his aide (seamus ?) and said this is not a good idea. Cameras off and Eagle and Watson had disappeared 🙂 its on their webiste I think, the before and after plus the audio till Corbyn's aides remembered the mics

Also said you need 90 people to serve in the shadow cabinet, he is struggling with that a bit !

He's in a terrible position, isn't he? Stuck between a rock and hard place. Damned either way.

Corbyn won't get the 50 he needs for a place on the ballot

This isn't a coup against Corbyn, it's a coup against Labour Party members. Creating the conditions which forces a ballot while specifically excluding him from the ballot paper would be a full-frontal assault on democracy.

The consequences for the Labour Party would be devastating.

Jack Straw said the mandate (constitution?) of the Labour Party is to govern with a majority so as to implement their policies, the MPs know Corbyn cannot deliver that. It would be even worse for the Labour Party if the membership are only convinced of that by a catastrophic general election result.

I didn't really have an opinion on Corbyn as Labour leader until yesterday. I watched Skinner warming up the comrades with how the miners had won in 74 (but forgetting what that led to a decade later) then Corbyn, expecting/hoping for some comment on his party's policies following the Brexit vote. Zilch, nada, nix, que dalle... . This led me to spend a bit of time Googling:

2 x Es
dropped out of uni after arguing with tutors.
led union membership in increasingly futile and industry damaging battles, a champion of restrictive practices and flying pickets to this day
voted "out" in 75
lost to Thatcher
lost to Blair
failed to stop Blair invading Iraq - a more charismatic figure leading the campaign might just might have done
led the Labour party too far left to have any chance of winning an election.
paid lip service to remain but left me suspecting he personally voted out.

I now have an opinion.

ernie_lynch - Member
This isn't a coup against Corbyn, it's a coup against Labour Party members.

I'm not sure they considered the members for one minute.

The last gasp of the Blairlites seems to be an abandonment of reason, principle and any pretence at decency.
Fitting and entirely predictable, as is their total disregard of the wishes of the membership.

A dumbed-down, principle free Labour:
"It's new, it's lite, it's further to the right" etc to appeal to Brexiters and those who have left the fold?

Fine, but that's not the Labour Party.

C'mon Jezza GFI - take the betrayed members and form a new party. The country is begging for it....

As a committed Tory voter I value your opinion on the matter THM.

Any time, glad to help [even a UKIP sympathiser] .....

Any time, glad to help [even a UKIP sympathiser] .....

Pot kettle black

Is it happy hour?

I've avoided most of the political threads recently.

Is it always like this?

cranberry - Member

On the other hand, the £3 I paid to help him, as I told my local Labour party "do to the party what the party did to the country", is providing excellent value for money.

File this along with "Blair made Labour electable" I suppose- if you hadn't carefully edited their memory you'd remember that the £3 votes made no difference, and you may as well have dropped your £3 down the drain.

Weird though... if you're going to invent your own version of history in which your £3 vote achieved anything, why actually spend the £3? I'd just invent that bit too and save £3.