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Look at the mortality rate for phage therapy. It suits communism well 😉
Afternoon Comrades. Any news on how the revolution is progressing? Just making plans for the weekend and wondered if I needed to factor it in?
Late September, Comrade Binnerski, time to make sure you've finished your fruit harvest.
Oh, and get the last of the spuds out before the slugs get to them.
Just making plans for the weekend and wondered if I needed to factor it in?
Don't worry, the organic cafe has yet to be nationalized so you have plenty of time to quaff craft ale, feign concern about the poor and worry about house prices.
Coryn isn't fit to even carry Tom Watsons bag...
Conference bounce:
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1177617752326098952?s=21
https://twitter.com/survation/status/1177106311554752513?s=21
Nothing happened at conference to put me off voting Labour… but nothing happened to make a Labour majority government any more likely. Did people not notice it? Or was it a failed opportunity to grow support, while the focus was on Labour?
Did people not notice it?
The SC ruling dominated the news. The daft Watson thing at the start didn't help either
The outcome of the conference was some excellent policy ideas, especially the green new deal. Well explained to people this could be hugely popular.
Coryn isn’t fit to even carry Tom Watsons bag…
Maybe Watson can carry it himself and shut the door behind him.
Conference also had some silly things, 4 day week has people worried they lose salary and while revoking private schools charity status is a valid argument, seizing their buildings is bonkers.
Fact is conference was always going to be about Brexit & Johnson has the stronger narrative, even if it is poisoning the country
I suspect Yougov is closer to reality than situation (I was polled as part of the survation one)
Nothing happened at conference to put me off voting Labour… but nothing happened to make a Labour majority government any more likely. Did people not notice it? Or was it a failed opportunity to grow support, while the focus was on Labour?
Of course it was a failed opportunity to grow support - outright banning private schools and seizing intellectual property isn’t going to attract the centrists and centre left voters that are required to grow their vote further. Doubling down on harder left policies is not going to get them into power as those that are attracted to those kinds of policies will vote labour regardless.
I think I'm fairly representative of someone whom Labour would need to persuade to vote for them if they were to stand any chance of forming a government.
However, all I see is lunacy at the moment: no position on Brexit; a frankly ludicrous policy on private schools; and a general swing to the bad elements of the far left that we had in the 70s.
When Corbyn became leader I was quite optimistic that he might put clear air between Labour and Tory policies. I didn't really want this much clear air, however, and I'm sure others feel the same.
Looks like I'll be voting Lib Dem again, but only as a least worst option.
JP
I’ll agree to that sentiment. Lifelong labour voter, despite not being in their core demographic, until it’s lurch to the left. Ok I live in a very safe conservative seat (5th in the country) but I voted Lib Dem last time and will again.
Alistair Campbell nails it by always saying you must win the middle ground to win power. Neither party commands that space so neither will govern. I see little ambition of that from the current Labour party. A party who delivered the largest majority in history and three consecutive general election victories.
Yes, agreed.
The pharma thing is another non-starter for winning the middle ground, too.
I take it all back. The Tory's have just announced additional funding for rural bus services, so hats off to Jezza. I'm sure he can sit back and see the influence he's having on policy
The didn't specify whether they were going to write any large messages down the side of thse buses 😉
no position on Brexit
I honestly have no idea why people keep saying this.
You're right Molls. Its completely unfair criticism
He's at least 17 different positions on Brexit, depending on who he's talking too 😉
I honestly have no idea why people keep saying this.
I honestly have no idea why molgrips keeps thinking that Corbyn has a position on Brexit.
I don’t care what his position is any more.
As long as he backs a vote on his Brexit that lets us reject it and remain if we wish, that’ll do me.
I expect many other voters do want a single clear position to be adopted by Labour before they’ll vote for its candidates at a general election though, but that’s unlikely to happen unless he moves aside. And that’s not happening.
the brexit decision needs to be completely divorced from a GE - there needs to be a referendum first or the issue will be completely clouded by political affiliations.
In fact A50 just needs to be revoked until a workable NI border solution has been agreed with the Irish (not anyone else...).
Then, if such a solution can be found (...) have that 2nd referendum with options to 1. leave so no EU body has any control (courts/etc), 2. remain, 3. customs union/eea/whatever, 4. anything else, and apply PR to the vote - like most political elections are at university.
I agree that is what should happen.
But it won’t.
Standing in the way of a VONC. 🙁
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49891500
Ian Blackford doesn't have skin in this game and he's spot on.
While Margaret Beckett would be ideal for all, Labour should push forward someone from their front bench like Angela Rayner or Keir Starmer now… and wrong foot the LibDems and those MPs cut adrift from their old parties…
“ You don’t want our party leader to be interim PM, and we’re not okay with that, but this is one of the most important months in British political history… so here is our alternative… back them and let’s get an extension now, rather than wait for a crisis to unfold. ”
“ You don’t want our party leader to be interim PM, and we’re not okay with that, but this is one of the most important months in British political history… so here is our alternative… back them and let’s get an extension now, rather than wait for a crisis to unfold. ”
This. And it can be *anyone*. As Ken Clarke says the identity of the caretaker is irrelevant, yes it shouldn't be a mainstream party leader but beyond that it doesn't matter.
It should be Bercow.
That would be amazeballs.
It should be Bercow.
I know you jest and if an apolitical candidate was required he'd be the man.
...but this isn't apolitical, this is a seriously political role. The opposition have the numbers to change a political course and remove a government that they all think is fundamentally wrong. You can't get much more political than that.
…but this isn’t apolitical, this is a seriously political role
Agreed... .but in this instance it probably needs to be someone who is party apolitical whilst still representing the political no deal camp.
If not Bercow then Blackford purely because, other than to unite a temporary government to deal with the single issue, he cannot ever command a majority as PM so presents absolutely no danger of hanging on in there for his own purposes and can be removed from the post by any of the other coalition parties at will.
Plus he usually comes across as the only adult in the room.
More important than being political or apolitical at this stage, I’d say vaguely competent was a more pressing qualification
So someone who is capable of finding their own arse, using both hands, politically speaking, is a must.
So that’s grandad out in the first round. There are pot plants with sharper political instincts, and things are about to require just those instincts.
The next month is going to see all manner of political manoeuvring, the likes of which this country has never seen before. Someone like Ken Clarke would be ideal. Someone with bags of high-level political experience, rather than some bloke who spent 30 years as an anonymous back bencher then found himself leader of the opposition, by mistake.
The lib dems and their tory mates are making no deal more likely. That's the end result of their politicking. They would prefer no deal to Corbyn as PM. That's fine, but they should be honest about it. The labour party is by far the biggest party and should lead a new govt. Swinson talks about maths, yet she denies the fact that labour have 246 MPs to her 18, and the 21 tory rebels. She needs to decide her priorities very quickly. Betraying the remain side of the argument will not be a good look.
While I hate to think I agree with Jo Swinson on anything, on this she is absolutely correct. There is no way the maths add up for a Corbyn led coalition, even though he has precedence in his favour. Corbyn knows this too of course, that's why he won't stand aside.
The lib dems and their tory mates are making no deal more likely. That’s the end result of their politicking. They would prefer no deal to Corbyn as PM. That’s fine, but they should be honest about it. The labour party is by far the biggest party and should lead a new govt. Swinson talks about maths, yet she denies the fact that labour have 246 MPs to her 18, and the 21 tory rebels. She needs to decide her priorities very quickly. Betraying the remain side of the argument will not be a good look.
So the LibDems, who's electoral USP will be destroyed by a no deal Brexit before the election, prefer a fast "no deal", whereas Labour who will electorally gain from Brexit being settled before an election and who's current leadership have been consistent Brexiteers for 40 years are in favour of avoiding the quick no deal Brexit which solves their biggest single problem?
Intriguing analysis. Care to explain your reasoning?
They would prefer no deal to Corbyn as PM.
Obviously, others can claim that Labour would prefer no deal to anyone other than Corbyn as PM.
Someone needs to put forward a proposal to get past this, and, I’d suggest, that if the Labour front bench put one of their own forward, they could both keep control over the process and be seen in the public eye as a team of practical politicians putting the country first. That isn’t how they are currently seen by much of the public.
Binners hasn’t thrown enough silliness at this thread recently…
https://twitter.com/generalboles/status/1178952687028723712?s=21
while the Lib Dems are seeking a cross-party temporary government led by a backbench grandee such as Ken Clarke or Harriet Harman, Corbyn’s office have called for a “strictly time-limited caretaker administration” – a Labour only government in office for a matter of days, purely to extend the Brexit deadline and call an election.
The assumption is that if the alternative was no deal, one side would blink, but it remains to be seen who, and when.
This is a critical difference - Corbyn led caretaker government would only be in power for days. Swinsons government of national unity would be in power for months
The lib dem activists I know are despairing of Swinsons take on this.
Swinsons government of national unity would be in power for months
Where did you get this from? PC and some in Labour have have talked about a multi month government to get a referendum. It’s not got anywhere really. Swinson has been pushing an early VONC to get an extension and quick election. Both SNP and LibDems think that post a snap 2019 election they will have a greater number of MPs in another hung parliament. Neither want the election delayed to next year.
Care to explain your reasoning?
It's fairly simple, Swinson and the tories claim to want to avoid no deal, but not by any (and the simplest) means. Their support for avoiding no deal is conditional on it not being led by Corbyn. By introducing this caveat they remove the simplest and most certain method of avoiding no deal and give Johnson the opportunity take us out by some underhand method.
Corbyn is the undisputed leader (despite the best efforts of Watson) of the next largest party. All the other parties recognise that, apart from Swinson and her tory friends. They should explain their priorities.
You know that works both ways. Time for someone to act the grown up, win a VONC, get the extension, call an election, and then pass it on to the voters. There must be someone on the Labour front bench that Corbyn trusts to get this done? He could be elected PM by Xmas.
Corbyn is the undisputed leader
Undisputed? In the common room, maybe?
80% of his own MPs would be absolutely overjoyed if he were abducted by aliens. In the country generally he’s about as popular as a fart in a lift 😂
You know that works both ways.
Only you if conveniently ignore centuries of parliamentary and constitutional precedent, and the basic arithmetic of the fact that the lib dems and tories are in a tiny minority compared to the rest of the opposition parties. If there were similar MP numbers on each side I'd agree, but there isn't. It's a simple decision for the lib dems and the tories. Do they want to ensure the avoidance of no deal and make it impossible for Johnson to take us out? If so there is only one way to do it, and that's to support a labour led interim govt.
There can be only 1
I’d be quite happy with Corbyn having five days as PM. I wouldn’t rule out someone else doing it if necessary, so we could get an extension & election, so that Corbyn can try and get elected for five years as PM. If Labour are happy to risk No Deal rather than put someone else forward for this, why do you defend that? And what happens if, after No Deal, the rebel Tories evaporate and Johnson stays on as PM? This autumn might be Corbyn’s last chance to kick off a general election campaign.
If Labour are happy to risk No Deal rather than put someone else forward for this, why do you defend that?
Because it needs to be sustainable. If Corbyn steps aside then it will not only open up whole new round of labour infighting, but it will also risk alienating many labour MPs who support brexit who could easily bring the whole thing down by voting against an extension. You think the likes of Dennis Skinner, Ronnie Campbell and Ian Lavery are gong to meekly step aside and be told how to vote by Swinson and Dominic Grieve? Corbyn at this point in time is holding the labour party together, and can provide the numbers from labour to support a new govt. Take him away and labour unity will collapse, and with it any hope of an interim govt delivering an extension.
Corbyn at this point in time is holding the labour party together
If no deal occurs this month, and there’s no general election ‘till 2022, then either Corbyn is gone, or Labour is, by the time we get to vote.
There had better be someone else on the front bench who can do this caretaker job… if there isn’t, and Corbyn really is the only person holding the party together, and there is no one else who can be trusted to be PM, even for just a few days, than the party isn’t going to last for long, is it.
There had better be someone else on the front bench who can do this caretaker job…
If in the unlikely event that Corbyn did step aside, the labour left would demand a Corbyn loyalist in his place which I doubt Swinson-tories will accept either. If Swinson-tories can play this game, so can they, and there's no way they'll accept a Blairite clone like Harman, Cooper or Watson, and certainly not a pro-austerity tory like Clarke.
The only solution is the one with the path of least resistance, and the weight of numbers behind it, and right now that's a labour led govt with Corbyn at the helm. Remember when Brown was desperately trying to engineer a minority govt with lib support after losing to Cameron? It didn't work because of the simple force of numbers against him. This is the same. Swinson might think she's the kingmaker, but she's not. I predict she'll back down in the end if it's required. She has very little choice if she wants to prevent a no deal exit.
I’ll leave this here.
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that’s a labour led govt with Corbyn at the helm.
There can be only 1
Kelvin it's the path of least resistance. Everything else involves a ridiculous amount of negotiation, politicking and various other manoevres which there simply isn't time for. It's not about Corbyn, it's about what's feasible. There is no time to be throwing out convention and opening up a hornets nest of competing interests from all sides, and it will play into the hands of Johnson.