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Neoliberalism
someone please start another thread to argue about whatever they mean by this term (am I neoliberal? I'm a member of the labour party and I want to live in a fairer world, and not just talk about this. Since labour have been out of power things have been getting worse and this is accelerating. Do you really want to wazz me out of the party?)
This thread's about an invisible, unavailable, and frankly inadequate to the task leader who needs replacing. By anyone.
I love how Jess Phillips...
This Jess Phillip's?
https://medium.com/@hwalker2476/jess-phillips-narcissist-477d1c833fe
This thread’s about an invisible, unavailable, and frankly inadequate to the task leader who needs replacing. By anyone.
Yet the Progressbots don't seem to be able to organise for their preferred leader, despite two attempts.
Corbyn had no power to stop brexit.
See I don't think that's true. Given a rubbish May Govt that had a teeny majority, a labour party that almost wholly remain, and a crack at TV/Radio etc week in week out telling every working man and women about how they'd been duped into voting against their interests, I think we'd be in a very different place right now. But we didn't get that, we got an opposition party stupefied into silence by anti semitism, an absentee Leader, and a group including Corbyn that were complicit in allowing Brexit to happen because ideologically; that's what they want.
Given a rubbish May Govt that had a teeny majority, a labour party that almost wholly remain
Labour Leavers are more than enough votes to compensate.
Labour Leavers are more than enough votes to compensate.
yep theyll see the right wing fantasy of a no deal brext come true
Labour Party in continuing to be completely and utterly ****ing useless shocka!
https://twitter.com/channel4news/status/1158767410909986821?s=21
Labour Leavers are more than enough votes to compensate
Sure about that? Most of them have likely bogged off to brexit party.
He is however offering you a chance to stop brexit via a second referendum
That’s a lie & you know it.
And anyone that switches from voting for a socialistish party to a right wing party which is the opposite was not actually voting for Labour for the right reasons so surprising they stayed for so long.
Well, anyone who is voting leave has a serious logic failure, imo. I don't like to write people off though.
Sure about that? Most of them have likely bogged off to brexit party.
Back in June the following Labour MPs signed a letter to Corbyn asking him not to back a second referendum and to back a Brexit deal before the 31st October.
- Sir Kevin Barron
- Sarah Champion
- Julie Cooper
- Rosie Cooper
- Jon Cruddas
- Gloria De Piero
- Jim Fitzpatrick
- Caroline Flint
- Yvonne Fovargue
- Grahame Morris
- Mary Glindon
- Lisa Nandy
- Mike Hill
- Melanie Onn
- Dan Jarvis
- Stephanie Peacock
- Stephen Kinnock
- Jo Platt
- Emma Lewell Buck
- Dennis Skinner
- Justin Madders
- Laura Smith
- John Mann
- Gareth Snell
- Jim McMahon
- Ruth Smeeth
As I'm sure some folks will note, a number of them were Pro-EU previously, despite representing Brexit backing constituencies. It's really not as simple as stating "they were Pro-EU so will always vote that way".
Sure about that? Most of them have likely bogged off to brexit party.
I wasn't aware that the Brexit party had any MPs. Must've missed that on the news.
greek debt was the burning issue in Leave voters minds
could you actually say that with a straight face?
Umm. No. But that’s ok. Because I didn’t say it at all.
Can we make this thread more positive please?
How about people posting links to strong contributions made by Corbyn since the new government was installed? Something I can share with others concerned about the shift even further right, and towards an even harder Brexit, of our government. Videos, articles, interviews… the best bits please. Things that will really convince people that the alternative to this government is ready to stand up for them?
...tumbleweed...
Well, at this point, I think it might be best to let Boris mess up the country.
If Corbyn were to jump up and try to get in the way, all that's going to happen is that he lets Boris off the hook.
Whereas if/when the Conservatives do go ahead with this thing, and royally mess up the country, they will quite likely end up never again able to gain a workable majority, which can only be a net positive.
An interesting interview with Nichola Sturgeon in yesterdays Guardian sums up the glorious leaders contribution perfectly
I think the abdication of leadership on the part of Jeremy Corbyn right now will be as much of the stuff of the history books as what’s happening in the Tory party. And I think it’s tragic.
Seeing as its often its been left to Ian Blackford and the SNP to even raise the subject of Brexit in parliament, while Corbyn bangs on about rural bus services or Venezuela, I think thats fair comment
I see that McConnell appears to be making up policy on Scottish independence on the hoof.
R4 report this morning that McDonnell has said Labour will no longer stand in the way of another independence ref. Jesus.
Wow - does this mean that there seems to be a muddled, confused and totally unclear position on a referendum issue coming from the labour party?
Who'd have thunk it?
Perhaps it's more 'constructive ambiguity'? Fiendishly clever, but then given that its worked so well in the past and delivered such a commanding lead in the polls....
what's going to happen to the England/Scotland border if Scotland goes independant and rejoins the EU?
Going to have to be a hard border I suppose unless they use the same 'solution' as for NI...
R4 report this morning that McDonnell has said Labour will no longer stand in the way of another independence ref. Jesus.
And the problem with that is...?
And the problem with that is…?
That it states the polar opposite policy position to that which the leader of the Scottish Labour Party reiterated only yesterday
Sound familiar?
And the problem with that is…?
Oh. Right.
From a personal pov I don't really know where to start. Toodle pip Labour would cover it though, on reflection. I know, not a true believer. Just one more reason on the list not to vote for them.
leader of the Scottish Labour Party
Leader of the Labour Party in Scotland. It's a minor, but contextually important, difference as it indicates where power actually lies.
where power actually lies.
He also referred to the English parliament.
Sorry. I'm not that well versed on North of the border politics. I get the essential difference in the title though
What this illustrates is that the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. Or it does know and simply doesn't care?
In the space of two days, the Labour party has stated two totally contradictory policy positions on a really major, important issue.
Par for the course now with this shower though, isn't it?
Can I have some links to Corbyn coming forward to present the alternative to the new Johnson/Raab&co government, and how that alternative will stand up for people worried about the country shifting rightwards, and towards the hardest possible Brexit, at full speed… not had one yet, and there must be many… (that’s not sarcastic, there must be some, surely, just buried by others coming forward more successfully in the media with their own points, no…?)
Can I have some links to Corbyn coming forward to present the alternative to the new Johnson/Raab&co government, and how that alternative will stand up for people worried about the country shifting rightwards, and towards the hardest possible Brexit, at full speed…
This is the place to post a picture of the Monty Python "cheese shop" sketch ... 🙂
cant disagree with Peston here
And again, if you share my logic, Johnson probably wins - either because he succeeds in rigging the election timetable such that the new government cannot be formed till after the UK has left the EU on October 31, which is a prospect I regard as unlikely, or more likely because there is absolutely zero sign of Corbyn offering voters the necessary simple choice between a Tory party that would remove the UK from the EU, no ifs or buts, and a Labour party that would keep the UK in the EU.
Instead, and according to senior Labour forces, Corbyn seems wedded to the latest iteration of its complicated policy, which is to promise a further Brexit referendum.
And if voters were presented with a clear Tory policy to take the UK out of the EU without a deal, but an opposition divided between Labour hinting there could be a form of Brexit it might support and that in any event there must be a referendum, while other opposition parties were saying they would prefer simply to stay in the EU, then left-of-centre voters would understandably be muddled and anxious about who to support.
And if left-of-centre voters are disunited and unsure whether to vote for Labour, or Lib Dem or Green or Plaid or SNP, Johnson scoops the prize.
By the way, Johnson and Cummings are acutely aware that a referendum is much more dangerous for them than a general election.
It was obvious from the car-crash interview with Rebecca Wrong-Bailly last night on Channel 4 news that the fence-sitting will continue. Labour still has absolutely no intention of doing anything at all. It will do its usual... sit idly by allowing the Tory's to do what they like, while maybe occasionally calling for a general election which they know they won't get. But actually DOING anything? Not a chance!
She did handily confirm that, even in a total crisis, Labour will not be willing to co-operate with any other parties. Of course, they wouldn't. The 'other parties' being mentioned here (lib Dems, SNP, Greens) are all anti-Brexit, so why would they want to co-operate with them?
Better to keep doing what they're doing... continuing their coalition with the Tory's to deliver Brexit, which is, after all, what they both want
Once parliament is back, only one person can call for a Vote of No Confidence - Jeremy Corbyn
Don't hold your breath
Any links to Corbyn doing his thing to oppose the new government? Something to suggest he isn’t just waiting for the Tories to get on with their new thing? Examples of him sticking up for those that don’t want what Johnson and his crew (including those from right wing USA funded agitators thing tanks) have in store for us? Pretty please?
It seems he's a bit busy. He's using his time constructively by starting a fight with ... the Tories!
Only kidding. Of course, he hasn't. He's now started an argument with the Scottish Labour Party and the last 12 remaining labour voters in Scotland.
You've got to admire the commitment to making sure the labour party are never in government ever again and letting the Tories get on with delivering Brexit
You’ve got to admire the commitment to making sure the labour party are never in government ever again and letting the Tories get on with delivering Brexit
Well you've got your mates Watson, Phillips and Hodge to largely blame for the first part of that.
#notCorbynsfault
I suppose, if he does nothing at all, we can’t be critical of what he does.
Afternoon Comrade
Wifi in the bunker still working ok? We were worried for a while
Don't you find it interesting that you can change your mind on having a (Scottish indy) referendum, on a whim, without any consultation with anyone, but on the other referendum (Brexit) you absolutely have to deliver on 'the will of the people and you absolutely can't change your mind EVER (except if...if...if...if...if...if...if...if...if...if...)
Care to talk us through this latest vote-winner?
because to me it looks the same as trying to chase Brexit supporting, Leave voters who would never vote labour in a million years anyway
This time they're transparently trying to woo SNP voters who wouldn't either
In the process managing to alienate everyone else as well.
Especially your own representatives and members
... actually, that has a familiar ring to it, doesn't it?
Genius strategizing, grandad!
Long game, Comrade Binnerski, long game...
Don’t you find it interesting that you can change your mind on having a (Scottish indy) referendum, on a whim, without any consultation with anyone, but on the other referendum (Brexit) you absolutely have to deliver on ‘the will of the people and you absolutely can’t change your mind EVER
It may be interesting if it was even closely related, which it isn't. Saying you can have a referendum is not the same as doing whatever the result is.
It would be like having a Scottish referendum, the vote going Leave (say 52/48) and then the Labour government not allowing them to leave. Would you be happy with that if you were a Scottish person who voted leave?
That's not the case though is it?
It's him saying 'you lot up there may have changed your mind, so you can have a second referendum, the rest of you may well have changed your mind as well, but you're definitely not getting a second referendum'
Surly the message that this sends out is that he's absolutely going to deliver Brexit, at any cost, and if Scottish Independence happens as a result of that, then he's not really fussed. I suspect he feels the same way about Norn Ireland>
So, as in so many ways, he's no different from your average ERG loon
You’ve got to admire the commitment to making sure the labour party are never in government ever again and letting the Tories get on with delivering Brexit
Looks like a very good strategy. Let the Tories deliver Brexit and pay the cost, get elected as part of the aftermath leading a Labour government with the UK out of the EU just as they always wanted. If you don't like that don't vote for them but you can't fault the strategy.
It’s him saying ‘you lot up there may have changed your mind, so you can have a second referendum, the rest of you may well have changed your mind as well, but you’re definitely not getting a second referendum’
Has he ruled out a second ref for Brexit? If he wanted one does he have the power to have one?
No and No.
Has he ruled out a second ref for Brexit? If he wanted one does he have the power to have one?
No and No.
Exactly the same as with a Scottish Indyref then? He had no power to deliver that if we're still sicking with the laughable charade of party democracy. Are we? Are we still doing that? Really?
By the sounds of it, this was the first that the Scottish labour Party had heard about the change of policy, so can we please give up this ludicrous idea that Corbyn isn't a little tinpot dictator, surrounded by his unelected advisors who are in the bunker, making up policy on the hoof, without consulting anyone
you’re definitely not getting a second referendum
To be fair, that isn’t the case… it’s more that you might or might not have one, and if you do it might not be on what you’d hope and expect it to be on. Assuming you are referring to a referendum on Brexit. Anyway, the London Labour team wanting to move away from an anti-SNP type vibe probably makes good sense. Promising to block a referendum in Scotland will come back to bite them on the arse when that promise needs dropping to get support in Westminster to form a minority government in future. What does Corbyn have to say about a possible future referendum in Scotland? Or should we just assume a multiple policy approach here as well?
can we please give up this ludicrous idea that Corbyn isn’t a little tinpot dictator who’s making up policy on the hoof
He isn't. He's a 'useful idiot.
