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It doesn’t mean however that the two issues are inextricably linked
On this much you are correct but you misunderstand me ( at least ) if you think I give two Bungle's fingers who the leader of the Labour party is.
He is clinging onto Brexit, and failing to present himself as our future PM to anyone beyond a small group of die hards.
As far as I can see he's done exactly what he has always said he would do, which is accomodate both sides of the brexit divide both within the party and the country. Why that has come as such a huge surprise to so many is beyond me. It's fine if you disagree with the policy of achieving an acceptable compromise, but please lets not pretend that he's somehow betrayed remainers when he never made any promises on that front.
It’s fine if you disagree with the policy of achieving an acceptable compromise, but please lets not pretend that he’s somehow betrayed remainers when he never made any promises on that front.
What is this acceptable compromise, and who exactly is it acceptable to, and when was it spelled out and open to scrutiny? Staying vague and non committal since 2017 has painted him as untrustworthy and incapable of plain speaking. His constructive ambiguity is a busted flush, and everyone is tired of it. You don’t rally behind a future PM if you are already tired of them.
The only “betrayal” is to members who were promised they would control policy with him as leader. You are correct that he has broke no promise to ordinary voters worried about Brexit… he has offered us very little from the very beginning.
Talking to two good mates of mine tonight, who’ve been Labour Party members for decades, they have both cancelled their membership in the last week. With very heavy hearts
But they’ve simply had as much as they can stomach of Corbyn’s ‘leadership’
Neither voted for labour at the E.U. elections
That should tell even the most hardcore Magic Grandadists where the party is under his stewardship.
Labour is going to be absolutely wiped out in the soon-to-be-called general election
Boris knows he’s staring at an open goal. He just won’t be able to resist, with Cummings and the rest of the Leave team all in place.
Looks like another 5 more years of Tory Brexiteer rule
Cheers Jezza! You useless ****!
I think you're spot-on there binners, it's just a shame that many in the Labour Party don't see it.
I wonder, at what point will Labour realise that Corbyn is incapable of winning?
If/when he gets humiliated at the polls in the soon to be called General Election will Labour finally have a vote of no confidence and remove him? Let's face it, no matter how badly he does he'll not step down!
Boris and co must think this is a doddle. They know that they can call an election soon and walk it, giving themselves legitimacy to carry on with their path to destruction of the UK for the next 5 years.
I’ve woke up angry.
Corbyn if you want Brexit so bad **** off and join farage. Give this country an opposition party.
**** off **** off **** off you useless ****.
Alastair? Is that you?
I wonder, at what point will Labour realise that Corbyn is incapable of winning?
When he loses? It all depends on the timing of the GE on whether Labour get less seats than the tories. If GE is after No Deal has been blocked and we are in another extension then Farage will be stirring it up in a big way and may take a lot of seat from Tories giving Labour the most seats
If Corbyn actually told me why brexit was a good thing and exactly how I can benefit from it I might think better of him.
Just speak up ,say something , do something.you dithering old ****.
Speak to me.
If GE is after No Deal has been blocked
In this situation, the Conservative Party has become the “get a deal after we leave, screw the EU party”, will be standing on that ticket, and will have pulled Brexit Party supporters and voters (that includes a large proportion of Conservative Party members don’t forget) back into their voting base. Where as Labour will be promising, if they win, to go and negotiate another deal… that is, repeat the approach that made May so “popular”… yes, yes, many Labour candidates will do all they can to remind us that their leader is “against no deal”, and that they personally think we should cancel Brexit… but that “vote for us despite our Leader” approach didn’t work at the local elections, or at the EU elections… and may be even less appealing when electing MPs… because the end result determines who is our PM.
Labour candidates will do all they can to remind us that their leader is “against no deal”, and that they personally think we should cancel Brexit…
Can you tell me which labour MPs/candidates have suggested we revoke A50? As far as I'm aware only a tiny few have declared that. I don't even think Blair has suggested doing that. Seems to me you criticise Corbyn for not doing what only a tiny few of his MPs and other senior party people advocate. It further confirms to me that the remainer obsession with Corbyn will be self-defeating. By focusing on him you allow Johnson a free run to no deal. It's a strange contradiction.
Newsthump absolutely on the money about Magic Grandad, as ever
Labour furiously preparing itself to **** up any chance of winning an election
He explained. “It’s been non-stop for about a week now. Boris could call this election at any moment and we have to be ready to miss that open goal so we can spend another few lovely years doing marches and petitions. But it’s not easy. Boris is so unpopular people might just force us into power and make us do something.”
In other proper news Labour records its worst ever Welsh polling results
This week is likely to deepen the gloom in Welsh Labour. A new Welsh Political Barometer poll, conducted by YouGov for ITV-Wales and Cardiff University, is published today. Put simply, it is the worst set of polling results ever experienced by the Labour party in Wales. The traditionally dominant party leads on none of the voting intention measures: they trail the Conservatives for Westminster and, again for the first time ever, are behind Plaid Cymru on both ballots for the National Assembly. Labour’s vote in Wales has collapsed in 2019: as recently as December the party remained well ahead, but it has lost half its electoral support in the last seven months.
Its all going great, isn't it?
It's not about policy ins and outs, even on something as big and important as Brexit. It's a simple competence issue - he's not up to the job of leading the labour party and we need to dump him asap. The longer he's leader asleep at the wheel, the worse the damage becomes.
It further confirms to me that the remainer obsession with Corbyn will be self-defeating.
I dont think "remainer" is the right term. Its mostly those with a frothing hatred for Corbyn or anything more than a smidgen left of "centre" with that centre being the recalibrated one as opposed to the European one.
Its the advantage the right has. They seem to be willing to accept the ultra hard right rather than accept something left of centre and the "moderate" left seem to agree.
> sigh <
Corbyn got lots of people to vote Labour again (or for the first time) in 2017, offering a real left wing manifesto. He’s since been resisting the members on policy (despite promising to give them more control) and proven to be ineffective as a leader. He has to go. Ask young left wing voters if he has delivered for them since that 2017 election high water mark.
It has absolutely nothing to do with left, right, centre, leave or remain or any ideology. As John says, its the expectation of at least the most basic level of competence
It's about having an opposition party that's fit for purpose. This will never happen under Corbyn. That's been glaringly obvious for at least the last 2 years. The man simply does not possess any of the abilities required for the job he should never have been given in the first place.
He's like a rabbit in the headlights
Unfortunately for the rest of us, what his tragic lack of ability is doing is giving the far right a clear run at the No Deal Brexit they crave, that is going to have far-reaching, potentially devastating consequences for all of us. And all but the most terminally deluded can see that as clear as day.
Once again, Binners sums it up eloquently. Plus I would add that his apparent embrace of any terrorist organisation who are vaguely left wing and of course the anti-semitism issue (real or exaggerated by the right wing press) won't endear him to most 'traditional' labour voters, will it?
Here he says that they will take no-deal off the table, and then offer people a choice between remain (which must be revoke A50) or a damaging no-deal...
the no-deal that he has just said will be taken off the table...
Doesn't really make sense, but then again nearly everything he says in non-commital or confusing.
Once again, Binners sums it up eloquently.
Binners is his normal ranting lunatic projecting all his personal failings onto others.
Perhaps if the "moderate" extremists hadnt dedicated themselves so thoroughly to attacking Corbyn whilst letting the maybot and her fellow lunatics piss everything away things might have been different.
It baffles me that they are too stupid to realise that if they launch rabid attack after rabid attack a)the favour might be returned and b)Corbyn and co might not feel willing to walk away from the those wanting brexit on the left side knowing all too well that the moderates will use it as an opportunity as soon as possible.
As it is we seem truly screwed and yes Corbyn definitely holds some blame but all the lashing out at him seems at least in part to avoid actually accepting some responsibility for the mess and, worse, gives the hard right free rein. They will be pissing themselves knowing useful idiots like Binners will be acting as free labour. They wont even need to get the Russian bots involved.
Are you sure you're getting enough food and water in the bunker, comrade?
It's lovely, out. Suns shining and everything. Maybe you should consider popping outside for some air?
You could even regale some passers-by with the news of the latest tractor production figures.
I voted Labour in 2017. Not because I backed Corbyn, but because I (mistakenly) thought Labour instead of Tory in my bit of Leeds at least made Brexit a bit less likely. The Brexit issue trumps and left/right debate for me at the moment. Corbyn is like a quantum partical, trying to occupy both states simultaneously. He is the main reason we don’t have an effective opposition in this country and he has to go ASAP. I would happily welcome a Corbyn government if they had a clear remain stance. His most extreme left wing projects would be unlikely to clear parliament, and policies like nationalising railways and student fees I would welcome.
👏🏼
normal ranting lunatic projecting all his personal failings onto others
I'm refraining from ranting, I think, and refraining from saying 'I told you so' to friends who were enthused and excited by Corbyn and the possibility of real change, and weren't too impressed by boring politicians are all the same 'try to make things a bit fairer and better for everyone, topple dictators when you get the chance'.
Well they're getting change now, and may be starting to notice that politicians are not all the same.
When Nadine Dorries, Nadine ****ing Dorries is Minister of State for Mental Health, the lunatics truly have taken over.
When Grant Shapps, Grant ****ing Shapps or Michael Green or whatever conman sobriquet he's rejoicing under is a secretary of state!
And when this shower of shysters are contemplating an election to increase their majority given the lack of any kind of government in waiting, so that no deal exiting becomes possible...
Yeah, I think I could start to work towards a bit of a rant.
The roll call of Johnson's cabinet is one of utter incompetence and over-promoted far-right ideologues, not one of whom should be in a position of power. Brexit 'No Deal' dogma trumps all
And yet... from the Labour front bench? Nothing! Not a peep!
The silence is, as usual, deafening.
Trying to get into government by stealth? It's a novel approach
EXIT: hang on a minute. That’s not quite true. Just checked the Labour Twitter feed and it was appear that I’m wrong. Jeremy is, in fact, urgently addressing the most pressing issues facing the country
https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1156180520344178694?s=21
Tomorrow: rural bus routes
Unfortunately for the rest of us, what his tragic lack of ability is doing is giving the far right a clear run at the No Deal Brexit they crave, that is going to have far-reaching, potentially devastating consequences for all of us.
I'd have more truck with this argument if the centrists who now want rid of Corbyn had actually done something in the last 4 years which had vaguely pulled in the same direction. They didn't have to like him, they just had to accept him and then do their jobs as labour MPs. Instead they have done everything they possibliy could to smear, undermine, criticise and outright oppose everything he's done. They've even stooped to joining in with the tories in calling him a racist. And now they say 'we told you so'. Well it was a self-fulfilling prophecy which they have worked for from from day one, and the end result will be a Johnson led no deal brexit. It's not just the tory party who put their own ambitions above the national interest.
Instead they have done everything they possibliy could to smear, undermine, criticise and outright oppose everything he’s done.
Could you give us any specific examples of all these Labour MPs smearing, undermining, criticising and outright opposing everything he’s done, please?
I think they've all been remarkably restrained when faced with such weapons-grade incompetence. I suspect that's what comes with weary resignation.
On a practical note, he's 'done' absolutely sod all for 2 years, so it's difficult to be critical of any specific acts
A lot of them - Jess Phillips and Yvette Copper spring to mind - have been regularly stepping in from the backbenches to do the job that the front bench is meant to be doing but won't/can't - holding the government to account
All I've seen from my own labour MP is his continued great work for our constituency, and the only way I can see he's undermined the messiah is that he's been vocal about calling for a second referendum for the last two years
They’ve even stooped to joining in with the tories in calling him a racist.
They've simply called out the antisemitism in the party that is clearly a genuine problem. Perhaps they should all just shut up, so that what they say couldn't be interpreted as 'smearing, undermining, criticising and outright opposing' the glorious leadership, comrade?
Since I've started following Tom Watson on FB I've seen how broken labour is.
Even if he praises the fire brigade for rescuing a cat from a tree ,it is immediately pointed out that the cat wouldn't have got stuck up the tree if he supported Corbyn.
Corbyn people are the most intolerant people I have encountered on the internet.
if the centrists who now want rid of Corbyn had actually done something in the last 4 years which had vaguely pulled in the same direction. They didn’t have to like him, they just had to accept him and then do their jobs as labour MPs. Instead they have done everything they possibliy could to smear, undermine, criticise and outright oppose
Not remotely true of my MP (John Grogan, as it goes). Whatever, we are where we are (a long way up shit creek sans paddle). It's time for any kind of effective leadership or some kind of strategy, which is evidently not ever going to come from Corbyn.
Not remotely true of my MP (John Grogan, as it goes).
same here - I like my MP. She was supportive in the beginning, until his supporters barracked her for missing votes due to chemotherapy, then he gave her a job in cabinet that she didn't ask for and was too ill to do, then took it back again one day later, didn't tell her, and let her work for 6 weeks thinking she was in the shadow cabinet before telling her it had all been a big mistake.
Then, after recovering, she made the mistake of going to an anti-semitism demonstration and got run out of the next CLP meeting.
She did indeed vote no confidence in him, but I don't think you can really call her a partisan centrist as a result.
Corbyn people are the most intolerant people I have encountered on the internet.
I am sure there is no confirmation bias going on there. That or you have never gone to YouTube or indeed looked at Binners comments.
I cant imagine why some people would end up being intolerant after all the openness and friendliness shown to them by the "moderates".
Afternoon comrade.
While you're here, could you give us any specific examples of all these Labour MPs smearing, undermining, criticising and outright opposing everything he’s done, please?
Because someone more cynical than me might suggest that these accusations just seem to reinforce exactly the sort of paranoid, bunker mentality that is regularly levelled at him-who-cannot-be-criticised
I am sure there is no confirmation bias going on there.
^^^
Are you sure you're sure?
I'm far from sure that he's sure that he's sure
I’d have more truck with this argument if the centrists who now want rid of Corbyn had actually done something in the last 4 years which had vaguely pulled in the same direction. They didn’t have to like him, they just had to accept him and then do their jobs as labour MPs. Instead they have done everything they possibliy could to smear, undermine, criticise and outright oppose everything he’s done. They’ve even stooped to joining in with the tories in calling him a racist. And now they say ‘we told you so’. Well it was a self-fulfilling prophecy which they have worked for from from day one, and the end result will be a Johnson led no deal brexit. It’s not just the tory party who put their own ambitions above the national interest.
Here my friends, is a classic - hell almost a ****ing pastiche of what Eric Hoffer was saying when he said that the far left and far right attract similar personalities and even fight over voters who feel victimised and tend swing from the far left to the right or vice verse.
It’s all those dirty centrists fault and Corbyn is a victim who lacked any agency and is definitely not anti-semitic or racist. It’s just all a conspiracy by a bunch of politically correct liberal Jews...
The economist was right.....the Labour Parties outlook and competency is disturbingly similar to the German communist party under Ernst Thalmann.
And the things is, this was all so ****ing predictable to any of us who had even a smattering of knowledge of history.
You know what, sometimes I just want to blow my brains up a wall with a 10 gauge out of the sheer ****ing banal predictability of history and people in general.
Afternoon comrade.
How hilarious. That you come out with all these witticisms and crap pictures whilst accusing others of having sixth form politics would be entertaining if it wasnt so tragic. This really is becoming a circle jerk of people who sit there launching attack after attack before whining when it is returned.
The economist was right…..the Labour Parties outlook and competency is disturbingly similar to the German communist party under Ernst Thalmann.
I dont recall reading that in the economist. Are you confusing it with that rather shit article from the new statesman?
Undermining? It's a massive list but how about Yvette Cooper on day 1 of his leadership publically refusing to serve under him?
It’s all well and good banging on about some Labour MPs and their half-hearted support, or even open hostility to, this leader… but look what happens if they defy him and vote AGAINST the government when he doesn’t want them to… yet, was he not a celebrated “rebel” and a thorn in the side of the leaders that came before him?
The rebel is king… slay the rebels!
To be honest, I thought, back in 2016&17 that perhaps some Labour MPs were harming the party, and following self interest, when warning about Corbyn’s performance, lack of ability to talk directly to his colleagues, and views on international matters… but we’ve had a few years to watch it unfold now… with decent MPs and members ignored and sidelined… and the man missing in action during so many key moments… or spreading disinformation for Russia when they have attempted to assassinate someone on UK soil. He’s been given a good go… in hindsight too long a go… he should have already been moved on. His bubble has burst, and Labour need to accept that and put things right if they want to step into government alone.
The economist was right…..the Labour Parties outlook and competency is disturbingly similar to the German communist party under Ernst Thalman
Wow, and what has the Economist ever delivered to the collective good of the people?
Drivel.
The aqueduct?
Wow, and what has the Economist ever delivered to the collective good of the people?
I know, what have the Romans ever done for us?
EDIT: Bloody Binners, always first with his LoB references.
I'm not sure what our expectations should be from a weekly magazine compared to HM Opposition.
Funny all the Corbyn obsessives are now claiming their PLP and former new labour idols weren’t at all trying to undermine Corbyn from day one. The simple fact is that the Blairites would prefer a Tory govt to a left leaning labour one, Blair is on record saying as much. Well now they’re about to get their wish, and a no deal brexit as a bonus. Not that they’ll care of course, Their noses are as much in the trough as Boris and his mates so they’ll probably do quite well out of it.
The simple fact is that the Blairites would prefer a Tory govt to a left leaning labour one
You do realise that that's total and utter bollocks, don't you?
But making a totally nonsensical, evidence-free statement like that once again demonstrates the completely paranoid, conspiracy-theory mindset of the Corbynite bunker
The labour party isn't in its present woeful state (it's on course to lose its deposit in the Brecon by-election tomorrow) because of the Blairites/centrists being insufficiently loyal to the glorious leader, its because Jeremy Corbyn is absolutely hopeless, and that fact is glaringly obvious to anyone taking even the most cursory glance at UK politics.
It really is that simple. I know its hard for you to swallow that the messiah/saviour is just basically a bit shit, and will never ever win an election* in a million years, but there it is. It's depressingly to everyone by now that that ship sailed 2 years ago.
There's a majority of people in this country want rid of the Tory's before they destroy the country, but they look at the Labour party and note that Corbyn can't even make a half-way decent job of being the leader of the opposition, so how would he get on running the country?
* sixth form common room president excepted
PLP and former new labour idols weren’t at all trying to undermine Corbyn from day one.
So what if they were? How did rebel Corbyn spend his back bench years?
Anyway, what about those that came to Labour (or back to Labour) with Corbyn as Leader, thanks to how he moved policy to left on domestic matters, yet still are clear eyed enough to see that he is failing had failed, and needs replacing. Many people were pleased Labour has shred it’s “New Labour” approach to marketisation of public services, but want the party to have a PM in waiting that can win votes and engage with the real world around us…
The simple fact is that the Blairites would prefer a Tory govt to a left leaning labour one,
Erm, no. For purposes of this discussion I'll accept 'Blairite' as my label. But in a PR system I'd vote for a party further to the left than Labour historically has been. If you think I'd prefer any tory govt let alone this one to a Corbyn led administration you've no contact with reality. The problem is that 'Corbyn', 'lead' and 'administrate' are not words that sit easily together in a sentence.