Jeremy Corbyn

^^ this and had Brown managed the fallout from 2007/8 better (and shown a bit more personality, something he only did after he lost) they would have won in 2010 IMO

Hang on Gordi single-handedly saved the world during the GFC....what more could he have done?

Millibean managed to run the Tories pretty close, and Camerons majority was paper thin. He didn't even think he could win. Hence his gift of the referendum he never for a second thought he'd have to deliver.

Corbyns 6th form Socialist Project is presently polling 16 points behind the Tory party. People say that polling isn't actually accurate, and I agree. I think that in reality the situation for the Labour Party is far far worse than that. Those polls are hopelessly optimistic for the useless beardy communist.

If there were an election tomorrow the party would be completely decimated. If I can find a bookie who'll take my money, I'm having a serious punt on the Labour Party being reduced to under 100 seats! as what happened in Scotland last time takes hold of the rest of the Uk, and nailed on Labour seats go to the Tory's and even worse UKIP! I know lifelong Labour Party members who've left in disgust and say they simply can't support this bunch of leftie clowns. Two words... Dianne Abbott

So spare me the crap about 'biggest membership of any party in Europe'! By the only measure that counts in a democracy - getting elected - Corbyn has been, and will be an absolute unmitigated disaster. He's about to bring about the end of the Labour Party as a political force. An amazing achievement, given the timescale he's had

You have done sterling work to protect the labour party binners and lefties everywhere thank you for you unswerving efforts on behalf of the party
The reality is he won the election again like everyone knew he would

Until such time as the labour MPs and "supporters" can accept what the membership want then we will have this massive schism]]I am sorry your brand of labour is not as popular with the party as you wish but insulting them and predicting doom is not the best recipe for the parties long term prospects.
MPs doing their best to ruin the party is a complete recipe for disaster, to then blame corbyn for this is the height of cheek

I did not think much of Milliband either but i did not spend my time ranting about him as he was still better than the alternative

Well I do apologise for not wanting to see the end of the Labour Party, and the permanent Tory/UKIP rule that will then deliver. But apparently that's all a price worth paying for the Momentum 6th formers to carry on with their hopelessly self-indulgent virtue-signalling

Dont worry binns, the history of the labour party combines a remarkable ability to win new members and then lose them very quickly. As in many aspects of their current difficulties, too few remember the lessons of history - not least why they lost the last election!

Hang on Gordi single-handedly saved the world during the GFC....what more could he have done?

Before that he had "ended Boom and Bust"

Until such time as the labour MPs and "supporters" can accept what the membership want then we will have this massive schism]]I am sorry your brand of labour is not as popular with the party as you wish but insulting them and predicting doom is not the best recipe for the parties long term prospects.
MPs doing their best to ruin the party is a complete recipe for disaster, to then blame corbyn for this is the height of cheek

and the takeover is complete, Militant could only dream of such success

I do apologise for not wanting to see the end of the Labour Party

I'm not attacking the Labour Party. I'm attacking the clueless muppet who's presently masquerading as its leader, his half-witted cabal, and the hopelessly naive, self-indulgent idiots propping him up.

I forgot though.... it's verboten to criticise the glorious leader, isn't it? That way lies bricks through windows and tweeted death threats from those cuddly lefties.

And the right wingers on here won't attack him for obvious reasons. He's all their birthdays and Christmas's come at once

Feel free to keep denying reality and shooting the messenger though. Perish the thought that anyone singing the red flag might have to deal with the world as it is, as opposed to how they'd like it to be, in their discussions in the common room

https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/720289067200618496

You couldn't make it up, or perhaps he did.....

Q: Evidence ?
A: The quote is from Corbyn's spokesmen

🙂

'm not attacking the Labour Party. I'm attacking the clueless muppet who's presently masquerading as its leader, his half-witted cabal, and the hopelessly naive, self-indulgent idiots propping him up.

I see i have no method of reaching past your hyperbole so i shall try no further

singing the red flag

Today's festive Trivia, a classic French Christmas Song (I only learnt about it this year), Constantin Rossi from 1946. My Beautiful Christmas Tree. I wonder who was first ? EDIT: Mrs B has googled it, originally German O Tannenbaum from 1550, Red Flag 1889, Maryland State song from 1939

I see i have no method of reaching past your hyperbole

Oh the ironing

I shall try no further

Now that would be the perfect Christmas Present 🙂

Come on JY.... give us a hug comrade

Happy to you lovable wee scamp you

I am glad you have someone else to google for you, must be a FT job, but how did you not realise the tune was the same 😯

Like Blair and Brown who delivered Labour Governments from 1997 till 2010

Or you could easily say that Blair and Brown haemorrhaged votes for 20 years after John Smith (and Neil Kinnock before him) made them electable. It was only the fact that the tories were in such disarray that kept them in power. Despite that, their hubris lead them to believe in the invincibility of their own rhetoric, when all the while they couldn't see that they were eroding the base which kept them in power. The present problem were not caused by Corbyn to say otherwise is just silly. He may well be amplifying them, and I agree that it will end in tears, but labour MPs should not be under any illusions as to the causes of the current problems. They last won an election in 2005. That's quite a while ago now.

Or you could easily say that Blair and Brown haemorrhaged votes for 20 years after John Smith (and Neil Kinnock before him) made them electable

You could say that

But it would be untrue

Smith took over in July 92, from that point on he had a slight lead in the voting intention polls (+4 to +6%) until Black Wednesday in September, when Labour shot to +10% and then averaged out at +16 to +18%. The Highest polling lead Labour had under Smiths lead was +22% in March '94, a few weeks before his death

The first poll with Blair as leader saw him come in with a +33% voting intention, rising over the course of that year to +39% and maintaining a high twenties lead most of the way through to the election in 97, including through clause iv reform. In fact, during the two and a half years of Blairs leadership prior to the election, the voting intention poll only dropped to below +22% (John Smiths highest lead) six times, topping T an incredible +39% and heading into the actual '97 election with a lead of +18, a lead that Smith had only ever achieved himself in the weeks before he died.

Post '97 election, Labour maintained this +22% and above (again, higher than John Smiths biggest lead) unblemished for another two years, only losing their overall lead for a few weeks post 9/11 before returning to polling in the high teens and twenties once again.

So, the facts tell us that rather than haemorrhaging votes, Blair continued to increase and maintain labours lead far beyond the best that Smith ever achieved.
But let's not have the pesky facts getting in the way of the good old anti-Blair leftie rhetoric, eh?

They last won an election in 2005. That's quite a while ago now.

Dire French movie on TV now (watched the excellent Lady in the Van earlier) so .....

I remember John Smith, he was certainly a special politician. However we will never know what he might have achieved at an election. Kinnock laid the foundations for Blair by getting rid of the militant left. I wonder who will do that now and when ?

but labour MPs should not be under any illusions as to the causes of the current problems. They last won an election in 2005. That's quite a while ago now.

Current problems, ie today totally due to Corbyn being the leader. Most of the 2005 winning MPs opposed Corbyn as they know he is electoral poison. Increasingly the Labour Party is being taken over by peope who have never won an election and never will.

When Labour were 39% up in the polls under Blair were Tories saying that the Tory party was doomed forever? Genuine question I was not really interested in politics at the time.

Has Jerremy Corbyn been to Liverpool recently? Also silver shadow rebrand is a nice touch.
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/21/silver-shadow-hunted-police-surfing-train-roof-100mph/ ]train surfer [/url]

David Milliband isn't going to be back. From the Telegrapgh

David Miliband, the former Labour MP who is now president of the US-based International Rescue Committee, receives £530,922. His charity has been given £3.6m in British aid.

I was surprised to see that this has now reached 332 pages.

I don't like the bloke, I can never see, or wish to see him as a leader of this country.

However, I cannot understand why after all of the 332 pages, people are still supporting or hating the bloke. Just make your point and then move on.

Are you new to this internet thing? 😀

Current problems, ie today totally due to Corbyn being the leader.

Yes, of course. The fact that much of the northern base have either stopped voting or defected to UKIP is entirely the fault of Jeremy Corbyn, and not Ed Miliband, Yvette Cooper, Ed Balls, Chukka Umunna, Peter Mandelson, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown etc..

Corbyn is the problem in as much that the membership voted for him twice. Why did they do that though? Are we supposed to believe it was his sparkling wit and charisma? Or was it because of the mistakes of his predecessors?

For lots of people immigration fears trump every other political issue by some margin ( not well informed stw'ers obviously).
So whilst Labour, Lib Dems, Green or any party arent making appealing noises on that subject they haven't a chance.

I blame the recent hipster fashion for beards

"For lots of people immigration fears trump every other political issue by some margin ( not well informed stw'ers obviously).
So whilst Labour, Lib Dems, Green or any party arent making appealing noises on that subject they haven't a chance."

I've no idea if this is right or wrong but Ed Balls has taken your view. He's done Strictly and on TW he was forthright about immigration.

@dazh because the infiltrators want to turn the Labour party into a sort of AWL / SWP, thats a win for them as they then have some MPs whereas now they have zero. The Northern powerhouse voted Labour in 2015, it was the swing constituencies which Labour lost plus being wiped out in Scotland. My point about Corbyn is that Labour are now in far worse shape and going backwards at an increasing rate. Labour lost in 2015 as they had no economic credibility not least as people suspected they where more left wing than they perhaps really where.

@Todd welcome, have you seen the EU thread 🙂 ?

For lots of people immigration fears trump every other political issue by some margin

Exactly. People switching from Labour to UKIP clearly never understood what the Labour party represents. If they did the last thing they would do is switch to the polar opposite of UKIP.

The immigration issue is just the most visible way in which the now totally London-centric Labour Party has totally lost touch with the concerns of its core northern voters in their post-industrial (former) heartlands, in favour of the issues that tend to trouble the metropolitan contributors to the Guardian letters page.

It's been going on for a lot longer than Corbyn, but he, and the likes of Dianne Abbot, are the living embodiment of this disconnection. A lot of the time it feels like they're telling working class voters off, or pitying the poor thickos, for not sharing they're more enlightened cosmopolitan opinions. A real vote winner!

And what whould you have them do Binners? Out UKIP UKIP? At least Corbyn will say why immigration is good rather than just avoid talking about it.

Tory party happy to play on immigration fears of course.

Tory party happy to [s]play on immigration fears of course[/s] recognise a real concern for voters.

FIFY. Labour recognised Immigration as an issue for the 2015 GE as seen by the mug. I have no doubt local activists in the North where telling the Party that is was a real issue in their communities. Abbott etc shut down the debate. Labour could come up with a credible immigration policy inc supporting UK workers giving them priority for jobs, improving wages, reducing entitlement to benefits for non-UK citizens for a period etc

The issue at the next by-election won't be immigration. It will be the fact that it's taking place where by far the biggest employer is the nuclear industry, at Sellafield, then there's the shipyards at Barrow down the coast. The area is totally dependent on those for high skill, high pay jobs

How do you think mr Islington leftie CND is going to play there.? They'be absolutely no chance! He's about to lose, heavily, a constituency that's been labour since the1930's!

People switching from Labour to UKIP clearly never understood what the Labour party represents

Not true original working class trade union Labour was anti EU and wasn't very supportive of immigration. So people with those values will see UKIP as a natural move.

Labour is really 2 parties in one, the working class of the North and Wales and then the metropolitan studenty liberal left lot. Speaking in generals they maybe aligned on the NHS but they aren't on the EU.

I don't suppose there was a regional breakdown of voting in the Labour Leadership election? I'm wondering who the northern, anti-EU candidate was.

Corbyn and McDonnell are anti EU they just won't fully admit it.

The EU stance of McDonnel and Corbyn is a really special and unique kind of bonkers.

They're not bothered about access to the single market (I mean, why would you be?), in fact they're hostile to it, but they then absolutely insist on unlimited freedom of movement.

Finger on the pulse of the mood of the country there chaps

Finger on the pulse of the mood of the country there chaps

Is that how policies should be decided? By that token maybe the Labour Party should stake out a position as the capital punishment party. Guaranteed vote winner.

But that's politics, you either lead public opinion or you follow it - but there is nothing the voters dislike more than politicians sitting on the bloody fence

@binners is spot on. Corbyn and McDonnell's stance makes absolutely no sense. They have always wanted out of the EU (with its anti state support rules) but they have painted themselves into a corner and regard "freedom of movement" as a badge of their anti-racism stance. It's non-sensical. They'd have more credibility if they embraced a global immigration policy with equal access rights for all - clearly that can't be complete freedom of movement so they get stucknas there has to be a limit or a visa system.

As above a by-election in Sellafield with a narrow majority over the Tories and which voted Leave is a perfect storm for them.

Is that how policies should be decided? By that token maybe the Labour Party should stake out a position as the capital punishment party. Guaranteed vote winner.

No. But the way that democracy works is that you map out a series of policies that will appeal to enough people to get you elected. What Laurel and Hardy have done is looked at the EU issue - the one through which everything else is presently judged - and cunningly concocted a policy that provides the worst of both worlds, and will appeal to precisely no-one. On account of it being completely bonkers!

Its quite an achievement. Never underestimate how truly unhinged the [s]Peoples Front of Judea[/s] present labour leadership actually is

enough people to get you elected.

Don't be silly, Binners. Jeremy has a mandate, and is a conviction politician. That's far more important than actually ever being in government and being able to implement policies.

Far better to hold some placards and complain about lot.

Very true. You may lead the party to electoral armageddon by utterly rejecting the concerns of your core (ex)vote, but you can hold your head up high at the branch meeting of the Friends of Palestinian, one-armed, organic lesbian society, and all sing the red flag ... comrade

And thats what matters.

Still need to find myself a bookie who'll take my bet on Labour retaining less than 100 seats at the next election. At this rate its a dead cert!