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One of Jezza's bezzies. A bona fide champagne commie. All chummy with Mine, another privately educated commie ****.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Murray_(trade_unionist)
See also cuddly Uncle John, a self confessed Marxist keen on kneecapping, lynching and instigating financial meltdown to achieve political purity.
With friends like this, he hardly needs to hang around with any blood labelling homophobic anti-semites. And yet, he does. What an unlucky anti racist Saint Jeremy is.
They're not exactly a bright bunch, are they? Or very observant.
The major flaw in the masterplan that I can see here is just everything that's happened over the last 12 years.
Weren't the populations of the west supposed to react to the banking crisis by rejecting the neoliberal capitalist model and embracing socialism?
That went well, didn't it?
The opposite happened. Instead of rejecting neoliberalism, the electorates delivered Trump, Boris Johnson and the rise of far-right populism in Europe.
If labour thinks the aftermath of the impending catastrophe will be any different, they're utterly delusional. The right is already sowing the seeds of the narrative. It'll all be the fault of filthy immigrants and the Johnny Foreigner in the EU
So the dreamed-of socialist utopia will probably end up looking more like Kristallnacht than.... erm... errrrr... I'm trying to think of a successful socialist state, but there isn't one.
They're about to sell us all down the river for a leftie pipe dream
I know how keen you all are to quote labour policy on their website, can someone post a link to the policy for supporting a no deal brexit on the grounds that it is a ‘price worth paying’? Or perhaps even some direct quotes from senior labour MPs?
Maybe I’m wrong, but you all seem to be getting very excited about something that’s in your imaginations.
Well it's either that or it's just complete and utter incompetence
Those are the only two viable options
It's academic, really. The end result is the same
Well it’s either that or it’s just complete and utter incompetence
Accepting that conspiracy and incompetence aren't mutually exclusive, in human affairs it's usually the latter. And when we're dealing with a drop-out from North London Poly I think I'm going with incompetence.
Disaster Socialism? In the UK?
Almost like Degsy and his budget busting chums sending redundancy notices out by taxi to kick off a Trot revolution and thereby bring in a workers paradise....
I saw this on twitter Binners and thought of you.
3. Labour Party Accounts:
Income From Membership Fees:
2008: £3,930,000
2009: £4,497,000
2010: £4,927,000
2011: £5,205,000
2012: £5,508,000
2013: £5,684,000
2014: £5,971,000
Jeremy Corbyn Elected Leader
2015: £9,532,000
2016: £14,393,000
2017: £16,165,000
2018: £16,930,000
1. 2018 Political Party Accounts:
Balance Sheet Surplus/(Deficit):
Labour: +£12,618,000
P Cymru: +£900,525
SNP: +£591,077
UKIP: +£233,635
Greens: (-£200,797)
LibDems: (-£1,079,502)
Tories: (-£5,305,000)
Source: electoral commission.
Also worth a listen:
The new PM and the future of Conservatism
Summary: the center will become more marginalised as the media (who constantly talk up middle-ground values and aren't taking notice of the political shift) become out of step with voters. The right might hang on a short while but are certainly ailing with lack of new ideas. The left have got a battle on their hands but could be the dawn of a new economic model.
Either way we are in a radical period of change where the centrist parties no longer reflect voting habits and become out of touch despite trying desperately to revert to things pre 2016. Basically as most of the Guardian journalists report life like it ought to be.
Maybe I’m wrong, but you all seem to be getting very excited about something that’s in your imaginations.
Yup they are - its a circle jerk of corbyn hating with very little basis in truth. Which is why I stay away from this thread mainly - if it wasn't so sad seeing "labour" supporters convincing themselves they have to vote tory lite and thus have a tory government because of a load of sheer bullshine they believe about Corbyn without a shred of evidence. Even some labour mps do this.
Did you miss the bit where the ‘centrist’ Lib Dem’s won the last by-election, with labour nearly losing their deposit, finished 6% above the Labour Party at the E.U. elections and took seats off them at the local elections?
If a week is a long time in politics, quoting the tractor production figures for the last few years doesn’t count for anything.
All that matters is how many people vote for you.
Good effort by the Labour Party yesterday to try and drive away their last 8 Scottish voters
You’re right on one thing though. We are witnessing the dawn of a new economic model.
And it ain’t socialism, that’s for sure!
It’s a post-Brexit nightmare dystopian vision of turbocharged neoliberalism with the U.K. as a deregulated tax haven and sweatshop
A far right wet dream
Maybe the Labour Party could get off their arses and actually oppose it instead of continuing to facilitate it?
I’ll not hold my breath, eh?
Can we make this thread more positive please?
How about people posting links to strong contributions made by Corbyn since the new government was installed? Something I can share with others concerned about the shift even further right, and towards an even harder Brexit, of our government. Videos, articles, interviews… the best bits please. Things that will really convince people that the alternative to this government is ready to stand up for them?
Posted 1 day ago
It’s almost as if there’s nothing to say....
Did you miss the bit where the ‘centrist’ Lib Dem’s won the last by-election, with labour nearly losing their deposit...
Did you miss the fact that it's a constituency that has historically voted right or centre right?
I posted about it in the Boris thread, another one that you seem to be talking a lot of crap in. I'll copy my post to here for you, as I'm a nice bloke.
The constituency hasn’t been held by Labour since 1979 ( 4 decades ago!) and in the 101 years that the current constituency has existed Labour have only held it for 42 years, with the Liberals/Lib Dems and Conservatives holding it for the majority of the other 59 years.
It is an extremely rural constituency, traditionally the kind that votes Conservative or Lib Dem.
Prior to the amalgamation of the constituent areas (Radnorshire and Breconshire) the individuals constituencies had only ever been held by Parliamentarians/Whigs/Liberals or Tories/Conservatives.
It was actually an achievement for Labour to hold the constituency as long as they did, one that went against historical precedent.
You managed to get 1500 people to vote for you?
Go back to your constituency and prepare for government
Got any answers to Kelvins question, comrade....?
Or getting 14% of the vote at the EU elections?
Losing seats to the Lib Dem’s and making zero impact on the Tories at the local elections?
No... didn’t think so
Go back to your constituency and prepare for placard waving and starting online petitions about the injustice of it all..
Where we’re happiest
Labour: +£12,618,000
And yet, staff threatening to strike over pay.
Well, not all staff, obviously. Some are more equal than others, comrades.
Yes.. some bone idle bastards have been picking up their MPs salary of what? ... 75,000 quid a year, for 30 odd years of contributing the square root of **** all
And spent the last 4 years picking up his ‘leader of HM opposition’ salary of double that (I know... my aching sides)
Hard life
Man of the people though, comrade
Yes.. some bone idle bastards have been picking up their MPs salary of what? … 75,000 quid a year, for 30 odd years for contributing the square root of **** allAnd spent the last 4 years picking up his ‘leader of HM opposition’ salary of double that (I know… my aching sides)
Hard life
Man of the people, though, comrade
He’s obviously very frugal though. How else would he be worth £3 million?
Well... some are more equal than others, comrade
And Iranian State TV and Russia Today must both pay well for rent-a-gob appearances
(Alcohol free) champagne communism?
It’s a post-Brexit nightmare dystopian vision of turbocharged neoliberalism with the U.K. as a deregulated tax haven and sweatshop
but the EU is neolibralism central, recently headed by chief tax haven expert - Junckers.
Corbyn doesn't like free movement as he thinks it stokes the sweatshop side and the gap between workers incomes and the rich, and the reduction in availability of cheap workers since brexit pushing up wages has shown that he is right.
Plus we have Uber and Sport Direct and Amazon all pushing sweatshop conditions, since before Brexit. In Corbyns Brexit vision he will be free to hammer down on these practises.
But it's not a right-wing plan, it is the modus-operandi of the EU - constant supply of a cheap workforce and powerful corporates and market competition - look at TTIP which the EU came up with under great secrecy and with no reference to what was good for ordinary people, which was luckily only stopped by some of the members states of the EU - but when the EU is more of a Federation (no point denying that there's been too many statements from Macron, etc, hinting at it) then who knows what they will be able to bring in.
To argue that the EU is democratic is to argue against corbyn's views that he has only recently tried to mask for the reason of trying to get into power.
You know that the ‘shackles of the EU’ corporate conspiracy bollocks will look like a holiday camp compared to what the far right Brexiteers have got lined up when we crash out in October
And lest we forget, they’re in power, setting an increasingly hardline agenda, and are faced with no opposition other than the Lib Dem’s, Greens and the SNP
It’s like watching your house burn down and commenting that the gardener really could have made more of an effort with the bedding plants
Oh... and TTIP was US lead and was rejected by the E.U. through its majority voting and is now history.
How do you reckon the U.K. is going to fare against those US demands when it comes to desperately negotiating a trade deal outside the E.U?
Summary: hello chlorine washed chicken, bye bye NHS
But you Lexiteers, just like the ERG Breixiteers will have thought this all through, right?
Two cheeks of the same arse.
Dominic Cummings can’t believe his luck with the useful idiots he’s got aiding his cause
The left are going to deliver a far right fantasy, gift-wrapped for them
but the EU is neolibralism central, recently headed by chief tax haven expert – Junckers
Making the European distribution of wealth more equitable by allowing the citizens of poorer countries work in richer ones is neoliberalism?
Lol.
Btw, it’s only post ww2 where people actually cared about borders. Pre ww1 and the interwar period was marked by heavy undocumented immigration, my Jewish relatives got here busking. No one gave a shit and one of them even wedded an aristocratic lady.
Even some labour mps do this.
I had a good laugh today at the story that this supposed centrist 'rebellion' wanting to install Yvette Cooper or Dominic Grieve as a unity PM to stop a no deal brexit. So basically they're saying that they would prefer a no deal brexit to Corbyn. I think that tells us all we need to know about the priorities of the centrist cabal (to use a popular word), squirreled away in their private gentlemen's club, plotting the last stand of the establishment to keep everything the same. 🙂
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binners
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Did you miss the bit where the ‘centrist’ Lib Dem’s won the last by-election....
Did you miss all the other by-elections?
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Can we make this thread more positive please?
Any links to contributions by Corbyn since the new government took power? Any? Or just more ranting posts about centrists and anyone (that is most people) who now don’t want to see Corbyn as PM (including people like me who voted for him only to see him be utterly useless, or worse, for more than two years, in the face of the country jerking to the right and embracing a harder and harder Brexit).
Videos, interviews, articles… anything?
Or just more ranting posts about centrists
Bravo. I wish I had a relevant monty python pic to hand right now 😀
Oh good, a rhetorical letter sent from the bunker. Smashing.
Lol at ttip being used as an example of the evil empire. Yeah, it was negotiated and agreed behind closed doors, then it went to the vote, and got defeated. Despite Cameron et. al. being very much in favour. Evil EU!
/blockquote>
He wrote a letter! Saying he was against it! ( whatever "it" might be in this case )
Well, I think that the case is made for him being the kind of dynamic, charismatic, "get things done*" leader this county is calling out for.
* as long as the thing that gets done is writing a letter, being against something.
Isn't the purpose of the letter to the Cabinet Secretary to clarify whether it is against statute for Johnson to call an election so the pre election period falls over the brexit.
It seems like a sensible approach because it will, at the highest level, make whatever advice Johnson has got for Govt lawyers public.
I imagine that the reply is going to say - it is for politicians and Parly Speaker/clerks to define and test the limits of the existing legislation or make new legislation.
It is also a continuation of the argument and counter argument about democracy/will of the people because there will be a lot of that from Johnson's csmp
denying the choice to the voters in a general election already underway
Come on, don't you think that is just a little on the silly side - saying that allowing the voters to decide on who gets power is an "unprecedented, unconstitutional and anti-democratic abuse of power" ?
It sounds great in the bunker, probably.
... so you are saying that it's OK for Johnson to deliberately force a no deal Brexit by timing of a GE - because he knows Parliament will oppose?
He wrote a letter!
You lot are hilarious. A letter not exciting enough for you? Would you prefer a protest on the steps of parliament? Calls to strike? Standing in Trafalgar Square with a sandwich board?
the boring reality is that this is what ‘opposition’ is. Using the machinery and the accountability of govt and parliament to prevent them doing things Which are bad for the country.
There is no "forcing" of a no-deal Brexit - that is the default position. He will not do anything to change that during purdah which might bind his successor.
🙂
A letter not exciting enough for you?
Not that one. No. Anything else to offer up as examples of Corbyn as leader standing up for those worried about this new government, its lurch further right, and it pushing for a harder and harder Brexit… videos, interviews, articles…?
Using the machinery and the accountability of govt and parliament to prevent them doing things Which are bad for the country.
Like not calling for a vote in the Commons to stop Johnson becoming PM, even when government ministers resigned to call for that vote, and to vote against Johnson and his No Deal agenda? That was the last best chance to unseat the Tories before we Leave the EU. But not a chance worth taking for Corbyn… who held a little rally instead to get angry with his own inaction.
Standing in Trafalgar Square with a sandwich board?
Your morning read.
https://medium.com/@twlldun/the-right-side-of-history-de2228da346f#.lhmqeabsz
Oh… and TTIP was US lead and was rejected by the E.U. through its majority voting and is now history.
When put to her, Malmström acknowledged that a trade deal has never inspired such passionate and widespread opposition. Yet when I asked the trade commissioner how she could continue her persistent promotion of the deal in the face of such massive public opposition, her response came back icy cold: “I do not take my mandate from the European people.”So who does Cecilia Malmström take her mandate from? Officially, EU commissioners are supposed to follow the elected governments of Europe. Yet the European Commission is carrying on the TTIP negotiations behind closed doors without the proper involvement European governments, let alone MPs or members of the public. British civil servants have admitted to us that they have been kept in the dark throughout the TTIP talks, and that this makes their job impossible.
In reality, as a new report from War on Want has just revealed, Malmström receives her orders directly from the corporate lobbyists that swarm around Brussels. The European Commission makes no secret of the fact that it takes its steer from industry lobbies such as BusinessEurope and the European Services Forum, much as a secretary takes down dictation. It's no wonder that the TTIP negotiations are set to serve corporate interests rather than public needs.
It’s no wonder that the TTIP negotiations are set to serve corporate interests rather than public needs.
And then what happened, when the normal democratic process kicked in (just as it will when we eventually ask the EU national governments and parliaments to ratify our own trade deal with them)?
Same goes for any UK deal with the USA don’t forget… the long slow technical process of formulating a trade deal is a bit hands off from elected representatives, but in most countries and trading blocks ratification is not. The houses in DC will have their say, and can block it.
Anyway, I’m not sure how this links into Corbyn…
Anyway, I’m not sure how this links into Corbyn…
About as much as the rest of the fantasy Corbynism in here 🙂
Please find us a strong contribution from Corbyn since the new government took office, and put their collective feet to the floor for the hardest possible Brexit and lurch to the right… I think it’s down to you at the moment, no one else is trying Dazh, they are on the “staying hidden and letting the Tories get on with making a mess is great” tack instead.
I had a good laugh today at the story that this supposed centrist ‘rebellion’ wanting to install Yvette Cooper or Dominic Grieve as a unity PM to stop a no deal brexit. So basically they’re saying that they would prefer a no deal brexit to Corbyn. I think that tells us all we need to know about the priorities of the centrist cabal (to use a popular word), squirreled away in their private gentlemen’s club, plotting the last stand of the establishment to keep everything the same. 🙂
There would be no unity government under Corbyn because neither the Tory rebels or the Lib Dems would join.
Keep up with the conspiracy theories though, it’s amusing.
Kitler.
https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1159471151594127361?s=19
😀
Two other things though...
That cat looks so uncomfortable there, death grip from Jezza
"Look at the immensely worthy book I'm reading, everyone!"
Stocking up on pets before the socialist paradise comes into being is a wise move.
Lol
Socialist novel in one hand, hitler cat in second hand.
This is all going to end so well isn’t it.
Please find us a strong contribution from Corbyn since the new government took office
Define 'strong contribution'. As I've said before, he could dance through westminster in EU underpants and you'd still say it wasn't enough. Why waste time on people who bizarrely think he's the next Hitler?
I suspect he'll be out meeting people in their communities which is what he usually likes to do instead of hanging around journalists and other MPs in Westminster bars. Or down at the allotment as Binners always likes to worry about. Either activity would be more productive than whatever it is that you want him to do. What is that by the way? No one has yet answered....
They want him to stop Bwexit wight now.
What is that by the way? No one has yet answered
See, you keep saying that, and people keep responding. One can only assume you don't approve of the answers you get, so discount them.
Let's not waste our time any more than we do already.
I'd quite like to hear him being interviewed by decent journalists. His only output seems to be on Twitter preaching to the already converted. It must be apparent that there aren't enough of them to get Labour elected so he needs to start trying to convince others that he is a viable alternative to the Tories. I hate the Tories as much as anyone but at the moment I've seen nothing from Corbyn that makes me think he'd be a good Prime Minister. Someone, actually anyone, convince me he's the right man for the job.
Videos, interviews, articles… anything?
I’m not asking for proof that he is doing a good job as opposition leader right now… I just want some examples of how he is making the public aware, since the new government took office, that he is ready and able to lead the country, should an election be upon us that he wants Labour to win. Or will it be a rerun of his campaigning style for the EU elections?
Can you blame Corbyn if no "decent journalists" want to interview him?
I think he could be making more supportive noises towards the legal action currently going through the Scottish courts (Mougham, Cherry, Swinson etc) though. Maybe he has and I've just not seen it?
Can you blame Corbyn if no “decent journalists” want to interview him?
Well, that’s bullshit… if you really think interviewers don’t want to interview the leader of the opposition, in these most turbulent times, you’ve really drunk the Kool Aid. Everyone wants an interview with him. Everyone.
I’ve just not seen it?
Well, I haven’t seen it either.
So now I've drunk the Kool Aid? Is that your standard response to anyone who disagrees with you on any point regarding Corbyn? Have you even read any of my previous posts on this thread?
I may not agree with dazh on much here but this has gone beyond rational discussion.
Which journalist is avoiding interviewing Corbyn? He is a man missing in action… all current affairs and news teams are constantly asking for him… and they get Burgon, or Long-Bailey, or Gardiner on instead, to burn a few more votes.
Or will it be a rerun of his campaigning style for the EU elections?
I presume it'll be a rerun of the 2017 effort with a new and updated manifesto. I'm not going to tell you what is so good about Corbyn because as I've said many times I refuse to join in with - and still baffled by - the obsession with him from either side. What I will say is that I'm fairly certain, or at least I hope, that the next labour manifesto will be another step change in progressive radicalism building on the last manifesto.
Something that not only offers the chance to either stop brexit or cancel out it's more damaging aspects, but also something that will massively tip the balance of power and wealth back towards the general population from the current plutocratic nightmare where the rest of society funds the unsustainable and indefensible lifestyles of a few very rich people. If we're really lucky we might even get a coalition or something similar where the green party have significant influence.
Or you can vote for Boris and his dystopian nightmare, or more austerity-light vacuousness from the liberals. It's a pretty easy decision in my book.
“Vote Corbyn, he’s not Boris”
That won’t nearly be enough, I’m afraid.
I’m not going to tell you what is so good about Corbyn because as I’ve said many times I refuse to join in with – and still baffled by – the obsession with him from either side.
Best contribution to a thread about Corbyn - award winner 2019.
So… some positive contributions from someone else please… a link to Corbyn, since the new further right harder Brexit government took over, taking the fight to them, for us.
“Look at the immensely worthy book I’m reading, everyone!”
To be honest, it looks more like he is about to nod off and have an afternoon siesta. For God's sake, quick, someone pass him a Worther's Original.
Was denken Sie über die Juden, mein Fur-rer ?
That won’t nearly be enough, I’m afraid.
“Vote Boris*, he’s not Corbyn” is pretty convincing though.
*or anyone else
Corbyns campaigning l;ast time wisnae bad - as in the euro referendum. He got out there and spoke to real people in the real world. Deprived May of a majority everyone thought was going to happen.
Plenty of activity from Corbyn - from parliamentary maneuvers to stop the hard brexit - sabotaged by 18 of his own party to plenty of strong public statements.
Can you link us to some, since the Johnson government was put in place, and the shift right and harder happened?
see that post 3 above? Can link to plenty more but its pointless as nothing Corbyn could ever do ill satisfy you
see that post 3 above?
That’s the same letter as Dazh posted about already. Anything else?
as nothing Corbyn could ever do ill satisfy you
A quick reminder that I voted Labour in 2017 and you did not. What he has since (not) done I have found far from satisfactory, but that’s not just me.
Anything else?
Did 'tjagain' stutter?
It's funny because I'm sure a number of you on here would consider yourselves 'moderates', but you display similar behaviours whilst banging the drum for centrist policies as you accuse those on the left and right of having.
There us nothing 'moderate' about UK politics at the moment, regardless of where folks think they stand on the political spectrum.
There us nothing ‘moderate’ about UK politics at the moment, regardless of where folks think they stand on the political spectrum.
No riots. No water cannons. No detention centres. No ovens.
Looks pretty moderate to me.
whilst banging the drum for centrist policies
I voted Labour for the first time in 2017 BECAUSE Corbyn has moved the party to the left. That doesn't blind me to the fact that he’s missing in action and seems to let every political opportunity pass by… and as others have claimed, it seems as if he just wants the Conservative party to carry out Brexit, in the hope that he (or the next leader) will afterwards be embraced by the voters of a weakened UK as a new PM. I hope that isn’t the case, and he is going to soon spring into life and we can rally around him… but if now isn’t already too late for that… when is?
I voted Labour for the first time in 2017 BECAUSE Corbyn has moved the party to the left.
If that’s true then there is no reason not to vote for them again. The only thing that has changed since 2017 is their intention to hold a referendum on a brexit deal, and (probably) more radical progressive policies.
No riots. No water cannons. No detention centres. No ovens.
Looks pretty moderate to me.
You have a hilariously low bar for what you want from a society. As long as we are not under an actual murderous facist dictatorship its all cool with you, yeah? 😂
“Vote Corbyn, he’s not Boris”
That won’t nearly be enough, I’m afraid.
It actually might be. Although the media would have you believe people love Boris that is not actually the truth. Many female voters are 'terrified' that he is PM and the people I work with and talk to (admittedly a bit more switched on than the average voter) all see him as a complete liability (and many of those people are tories - you can't always choose who you work with!)
You have a hilariously low bar for what you want from a society. As long as we are not under an actual murderous facist dictatorship its all cool with you, yeah? 😂
Exactly. Anyone but Corbyn!
Lads, lads, lads! There's an open goal here, anyone want to bang it in?
No? No one? Oh. Right.
https://twitter.com/krishgm/status/1159861707533107201?s=19
Maybe they’re all too busy drafting McDonnel’s new laws to let them lock up their political opponents. Or designing the camps.
McDonnell did put out press releases on both the growth figured and falling business investment. But weak economy is a Govt story not an opposition one - its usual to lead with a Govt spokesperson and follow up with expert analysis. It would be up to the media outlet if they wanted an opposition voice but the decision was probably to go for expert critique rather than party political spat...
And
...The opposition story for the media yesterday was the Corbyn letter to the Cabinet Sec - so that would have been considered enough politics from both sides. Add to that the blackout leading from teatime onwards.
This isn't a right/left point it's about how the news works.
I only comment because of the relentless tiresome crap on these threads
It’s unbelievable that no labour front bencher, let alone Corbyn was available to comment on the C4 piece on negative growth in the economy! 🙈🙈🙈