Jeremy Corbyn

A breakaway centrist brexit-lite (leave EU but remain part of EEC and retain freedom of movement) party could really clean up right now

in fact I reckon they could steal a significant number of MP's from both parties

Is the government able to play with benefits if we remain part of the EEC, like that thing Cameron was tring to get about no benefits for 4 years.

In reality such a control would make very little economic difference but it would placate a lot of brexiters, so you could more easily swing that deal of remaining a member of the EEC.

Is the government able to play with benefits if we remain part of the EEC, like that thing Cameron was tring to get about no benefits for 4 years.

"A breakaway centrist brexit-lite (leave EU but remain part of EEC and retain freedom of movement) party could really clean up right now"

Yeahbbutt the Tory Party can position themselves on that ground if required.

I think the voters Labour are walking away from will just spread themselves harmlessly around the plethora of smaller parties.

We need more Capitalism, not less.

I presume you mean that all those companies who rely on the state subsidising the terrible wages they pay with in-work benefits should have those subsidies removed and be forced to pay a wage which their workers can afford to live on? I also assume you mean all these companies should pay their tax like everyone else does. Once you do this you'll have a level playing field where businesses can compete with each other based on their merits rather than the market being skewed by state support and intervention. We need more of that type of capitalism, rather than the corporatist, monopolist, fraudulent and kleptocratic version of it which we have now.

If Corbyn's policiy is to borrow £500bn at historically low interest rates rather than pfis then ****ing bring it on!

Of course we need more and better capitalism*. But its not just capital that we need to allocate and manage better, its the other factors of production too - we have a lamentable productivity record. This is why wages are depressed not because of any particular party. Introducing band-aids like MLW etc do not address the core issues merely the results.

* and as the subject of this whole thread has shown, significantly less involvement of the state.

At least old Jezza hesitated on corporation tax today. He would restore back to 20% of the Tories cut it, and then reluctantlyl admitted he might out it up a bit more too. Conviction eh?

Is the government able to play with benefits if we remain part of the EEC, like that thing Cameron was tring to get about no benefits for 4 years.

Don't see why not as other European countries have different benefit rules to the UK.

If that is true then why not just pile in and do that, just be in the EAA, keep passporting, reduce the 'benefits draw' and maybe a few other things to make the UK less of a magnet.

reduce the 'benefits draw'

and maybe a few other things to make the UK less of a magnet.

How generous are our benefits in comparison to other EU countries?

Figures from Eurostat suggest the UK spends about the same as the EU average on unemployment and disability-related benefits, although it is behind the larger economies. The UK spends 12% less a head than France and 19% less than Germany, but almost twice as much as the Czech Republic.

Jambalaya
@Rusty centre ground and ex-Labour voter

Hmmmm.

As I said a year ago I wish to see the hard left agenda removed from mainstream British politics and Corbyn and Momentum are very much on course to deliver that.

I take it a moderate centrist such as yourself feels the same about the 'hard' right?

So Corbs has magnanimously said that 'most MP's will not face mandatory re-selection

Translation: Local members will decide whether they wish to reselect their local MPs. Momentum will campaign via their database for reselection of those they want kocked out to face a contest. Corbyn-istas will not face a Momentum campaign for reselection. That of course isn't mandatory re-selection its local democracy.

BTW did people see the Dispathes programme where Mkmentum activists woeking on the elect JC campaign (and being paid from those donations) have been building their Momentum database as clicking on a "I support JC" actually adds them to a Momentum database with authorisation for that well hidden in then T&C'c

I take it a moderate centrist such as yourself feels the same about the 'hard' right?

Absolutely that's just one reason why I wanted the immigration issue dealt with by the mainstream parties Labour/Lib Dem/Tory as you leave no room for more extreme left or right parties. UKIP where the only party campaigning for an EU exit, arguably they are representing the majority on that issue and as the only party with that stance the more moderate parties gave them an open goal.

I am pro welfare state, a high quality health service, anti-EU. I am pro a sustainable and responsible budget.if the economy is daffy ducked it's the poorest who suffer the most. Not rocket science. I am pro taxation of "offshore" business like Amazon/Apple/Starbucks/Facebook/Google etc there are many billions available there

Junky favouring individuals with a British passport isn't racist. We have a broad population and as ethnic minority groups are "over represented" amongst the poor favouring British citizens in terms of welfare is very far from racist. There was a stat released which showed EU citizens where twice as likely to claim in work benefits as Brits.

There was a stat released which showed EU citizens where twice as likely to claim in work benefits as Brits.

Any idea why?

Junky favouring individuals with a British passport isn't racist. We have a broad population and as ethnic minority groups are "over represented" amongst the poor favouring British citizens in terms of welfare is very far from racist. There was a stat released which showed EU citizens where twice as likely to claim in work benefits as Brits.

I would be very interest to see those stats as they conflict with the ones that I am aware of.

edit: actually checked - the "twice as likely" claim is incorrect. However, EU citizens are more likely to claim in-work benefits but less likely to claim out of work benefits

ie more likely to be in work and more likely to be in lower paid work so entitled to tax credits.

Indeed

"Translation: Local members will decide whether they wish to reselect their local MPs. Momentum will campaign via their database for reselection of those they want kocked out to face a contest. Corbyn-istas will not face a Momentum campaign for reselection. That of course isn't mandatory re-selection its local democracy."

This.

This.

well they can't have any complaints as it's exactly what they tried to do to JC, what goes around comes around 🙂

They never wanted him removed as an MP.

I see he is going to appoint a

minister for peace and disarmament

FFS - just split into two and stop the pretence. As Prescott said this morning, the Labour Party has always been spilt, but with the split so glaring, why dont they have the balls to face up to reality. The current gulf between the electables and the non-electables is too wide to bridge effectively - so GFI, be BRAVE!

"well they can't have any complaints as it's exactly what they tried to do to JC, what goes around comes around"

I didn't make any claim about whether that action was right, merely that it was going to happen.

Blame again.

I get the feeling that Labour's entire 2020 GE strategy is going to be "Yes we're going to lose and we don't expect you to vote for us but you see, it's all the other faction's fault".

Junky favouring individuals with a British passport isn't racist. We have a broad population and as ethnic minority groups are "over represented" amongst the poor favouring British citizens in terms of welfare is very far from racist.

Possibly have to leave the ECHR to get away with that one and it wont be any less racist.

jambalaya - Member
Source for the 96% of Jewish members?
Lifer, this thread and link posted by another STWer, sounds like you missed it

Ah, so what you actually mean is 92% of the 59% of the 1500 members of Jewish Labour Movement who voted. Not at all the same thing as 96% of Jewish members.

why dont they have the balls to face up to reality.

Well at least we'll get to see more of Dianne Abbot in her roles as shadow foreign secretary, education minister, Home Secretary, and minister for wominz.

You can never have too much Dianne. And she's a proven vote winner

Every cloud....

Wow! Jeremy Corbyn has 307 pages on STW. I guess it must be the beard. I bet he rides a singlespeed.

I assume it will be headed up by Miss World

😀 😀 Department will also be responsible for caring for children amd its favourite colour will be Red [s]White and Blue[/s]

Junky every single country in the world (outside the EU) favours it's own citizens ahead of others. That is not remotely racsist. On benefits our system is too generous as it's non contributory (ie you can claim benefits without years of prior contributions), if we where to chnage that therenwould be such uproar fom Brits its never going to happen.

Lifer well that read accross is more than good enough for me, did you see the following today (BBC Sunday Politics)

Lord Mitchell longtime Labour member has resigned today saying Labour is no longer a safe place for Jews or supporters of Israel. He is Jewish. He holds pretty similar views to me on the Chakrabati whitewash and the very unplesant anti-Semitic tone of the Labour Party and those surrounding Corbyn. Here is one quote

But even more than that he surrounds himself with a coterie of people who hold violent, violent anti-Israel views and allied with it they are very hostile to Jews so, in my view, they’re pretty bad guys.

Ta for the reply Jambs.
🙂

@tmh Did your hear Corbyn's comment on Marr about the impact of EU labour on wages and working conditions in general and in Lincolnshire in particular ? JC clearly didn't read your various economist links to how a huge supply of cheap Labour doesn't affect wages, I imagine he spoke to local residents and they haven't read them either. They are just commenting based upon first hand experience.

@Rusty my pleasure, I do try and have a reasoned debate. Not always successful obviously.

the very unplesant anti-Semitic tone of the Labour Party

I still have no idea what people are on about with that.

They are just commenting based upon first hand experience.

I'm sure they have first hand experience of low wages but it might not be because of labour supply.

I still have no idea what people are on about with that.

It's pretty simple. If you're not in favour of the state of Israel murdering palestinians and illegally occupying their land, or show any support for the palestinians in any form, then that makes you an anti-semite and a bona fide hater of jews. I'm not sure what's worse, the deliberate and disgraceful twisting of the truth itself, or the brazen way in which they're using one of the worst instances of racially-motivated genocide to score some petty political points against Corbyn and his supporters. This one aspect of the past year has been the most disgraceful and pathetic example of the depths they will stoop to. They deserve deselection just for this, but such has logic and common sense been turned on it's head by the PLP and their media friends that being a lying, slanderous **** has somehow been spun as being the victim.

I still have no idea what people are on about with that.

File me under that too. Labour may have the odd skeleton in the closet but this is the very definition of Tory spin.

tmh Did your hear Corbyn's comment on Marr about the impact of EU labour on wages and working conditions in general and in Lincolnshire in particular ?

So you agree with him?

This reply just HAS to be from a parody account.

[img] [/img]

If not..... 😯

@molgrips if you wish drop me an email with a phone number and I'll call you. When Jewish Labour party member after member is telling you there is a problem and MPs like John Mann and Chucka say there is a problem, there is a problem. David Mitchell is just the latest figure to make a statement and leave the party.

Harder left has always strayed from supporting Palestine via being anti-Isreal policy to be anti-Isreal in general (20% Isrealis are Arab and not all Isreali's support the governments policy) and that anti-Isreal in general morhphs into outright anti-semtism as all Jews are treated as being agents of the Isreali state. Add in Corbyn meeting wth Hamas and Hezbollah and you have an inadvertant standars bearer for anti-Semitism. Also as Isreal is strongly supported by the US the harder left anti-Capitalists align with anything which opposes the US or their foreign policy.

Note anti-Zionists which many in Momentum are means anti the right of Jews to have a homeland. Its not a group campaigning for a 2 state solution but the eradication of the state of Isreal, the one and only Jewish state. The BDS movement is widely seen to be anti-Semitic, BDS is another cause popular with Momentum members.

The specific Corbyn issues began with Oxford Uni Labour Club members reporting anti-Semitic abuse of Jewish students by Momentum members and Jewish party members beung harrasses by the same. Reported to party and Uni. Report commissioned but full contents inc details of ghe abuse covered up by Corbyn via commission a second and third report. The third report was the Chakrabati one. Even from terms of reference you can see its a cover up. Corbyn has long associated with anti-Semites who are part of the Stop The War coalition. I think there are so eqthjng like 50 Labour members inc counsellors and of course Livingstone currently suspended for anti-Sentism. IMO that's just the tip of a very large and very sinister iceberg

Let's bery very clear its perfectly legitimate to oppose Isreals policy on say the West Bank. What is not is to shout abuse at Jewish students attending Uni or to repeat anti-Semtic statements such as Jews control the media, money/banking, the US and/or UK Government etc

Corbyn could have dealth with this firmly 9 minths ago, however he chose not to. There is no good reason for why he has done that.

@rone the anti-Semitic issue is a real one and has been flagged more by those within Labour than Tories.

Yes I agree that uncontrolled immigration depresses wages and wroking conditions. I was firmly Leave and for his entire career Corbyn has been anti-EU. So on that issue I think we share the same ground. I do believe his non-Campaigning was deliberate, fellow MPs asked him if he had actually voted Leave.

Shocking anti-Semitic behaviour as reported in the Telegraph:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/universityeducation/8870909/Oxford-Tories-nights-of-port-and-Nazi-songs.html

Are these the students you mean J?

Yes I agree that uncontrolled immigration depresses wages and wroking conditions.

Fine, it still doesn't make it true.

But I guess that's obvious, because it isnt and it doesn't. And that doesnt refer to the "jncontroled" fabrication, it refers to the bit about wages etc.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11345858/Revealed-the-most-anti-Semitic-people-in-Britain-and-who-they-vote-for.html

Interesting ukip voters most likely to be anti-Semitic, followed by Tories. A problem of the left hmmm.

Yes I agree that uncontrolled immigration* depresses wages and wroking conditions.

anyway back to JC 😉 nice tweet link from CFH on the previous page, 62% of people who would vote Labour support JC so according to that poll about 15% of the population...

Time for [s]some policy[/s] taking the government to task over Brexit etc. in the end he needs no serious policy until 1 year out from an election but they do need to agree behind closed doors where they stand on government policy or they are screwed.
As said many times it's the job of a leader to lead. If you can't lead your own party what hope of a country. At this rate without either very strong whips (I think we are talking Kevin Spacy style here) or a shake up of MP's on the slim chance they get into government they will never pass any legislation due to infighting.

62% of people who would vote Labour support JC so according to that poll about 15% of the population...

Morning, Mike, and thanks for doing the math.*

*As they say in these parts!

Also, have since established that the reply was from a parody account.

A parody of JC, a parody of the Labour party or just somebody who could probably launch an IT policy without a pub blackboard....
Seriously this satire stuff is getting harder and harder

have since established that the reply was from a parody account.

I don't wish to see this thread het derailed but it is an central issue to Corbyn's leadership. Thenlast Corbyn / Owen hustings where in London in front of a Jewish audience. It's fair to say Corbyn's reception there was very negative.

@ctk so did the Tories seek out Jewish students shouting slogans and singing "Rockets over Tel Aviv" ? Did the University Tory club abuse it's own Jewish members ?

Do UKIP and Tories have anti-Israel policies ?
Where the councils in Glasgow and Leicester that flew Palestinian flags over the town hall and support BDS Tory or UKIP ?
Was the MP who declared Bradford an Isreali free zone UKIP/Tory ?
Did the oeader of UKIP or Conservatives declare Hamas a friend, Hamas has a written constitution calling for the destruction of the state of Isreal by armed Jihad ?

The Tory party has passed laws preventing town halls declaring support for BDS