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While the labour party sits idly by with its thumb up its arse?
So we're back to the age old question which no one has ever answered, what would you have labour do? It's all very well shouting 'do something' from the sidelines, but the fact of the matter is that Corbyn and the labour party in general don't have a magic 'stop brexit' button, and this fact gives you a convenient scapegoat. So by all means blame Corbyn, but the problem will still not be solved.
Or prefereably you could answer the question. How does labour stop brexit? If it's that simple I'm sure we'd all like to know.
Or preferably you could answer the question. How does labour stop Brexit? If it’s that simple I’m sure we’d all like to know.
They can't stop Brexit now. Its too late. I'm resigned to the fact that we're probably on for the very worst No Deal scenario, where the far right of the Tory party will use the resulting chaos to push through god only knows what
But this was inevitable since Corbyn took what I firmly believe to be the most profoundly stupid, nonsensical and self-destructive decision any leader of the opposition, and possibly any politician has ever taken....
He 3 line whipped his own MPs to trigger article 50. In doing so he not only set the clock ticking on the imminent catastrophe, he also handed ALL authority over to a Tory party in the grip of the lunatics of the ERG.
Remember that when he did this, all the information we had been given about what kind of Brexit was to be pursued were three words, repeated ad nauseum.. Brexit Means Brexit
What kind of a clueless clown would take that as enough to commit our countries future too?
He then compounded this abject stupidity with yet more...
He then 2 line whipped his own MPs to reject remaining in the single market and the customs union. In doing so he ensured that ay Brexit would be the hardest imaginable. Th ERG must have thought all their birthdays and christmases had come at once
Talk about a useful idiot? He's played an absolute blinder for the far right.
So what I'd like him to do now is face the reality that Dominic Cummings is lining up an election imminently. And that means that unless the labour party pulls its finger out and sorts its shit out, and fast. then we'll all be staring down the barrel of not only the hardest imaginable Brexit, but 5 years of Boris Johnson
Fancy that? Because I bloody don't!
so why do so many on the left support it ?
because they were conned a decade of crushing austerity resulted in a backlash
when the hard right likes of Farage & Hannan were telling us that we could be like Norway, it was easy to project that scandanavian socialist ideal onto a future brexit britain
https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1112848342890041344
the tories do what they did best, they lied
https://twitter.com/PropertySpot/status/1158720819364806659
if the left had been listening to what the brexiteers actually had planned for our future maybe theyd have seen through this
https://twitter.com/Daniel01572966/status/1114831886264750080
funnily enough a no deal is where we are heading now
And what Corbyn should do is resign.
I can think of one other recent labour leader who resigned when it became apparent to him that he was likely to be more of a problem than a help to the party by staying in office. And he'd not even lost a general election.
So we’re back to the age old effing question to which
no one has ever answeredI've never liked the answer I get repeatedly, what would you have labour do?
FIFY.
Now? Nothing. Too late. Actually, scrap that. They should come out for no deal.
because they were conned a decade of crushing austerity resulted in a backlash
when the hard right likes of Farage & Hannan were telling us that we could be like Norway, it was easy to project that scandanavian socialist ideal onto a future brexit britain
Not really - more that they saw what happened when Greece wanted to chart a better path but came up against the EU. All economists agreed that the Greek debt was unmanageable and the EU's "solution" just made matters worse, but the axis of Schauble and Dijsselblom - cheered on by water-company investor Verhofstadt - insisted on imposing their will.
Really?
greek debt was the burning issue in Leave voters minds
could you actually say that with a straight face?
(even if as bad as the way they were treated was,
it was agreed with the EU & the US based IMF
-but as I understand it the german banks were the ones who lent too much,
even if the greek government were the ones hiding their debts,
and did include $100bn debt write off was that the biggest haircut ever?)
edit & lets not pretend it can all be blamed on the EU, as well as the government hiding billions of debt, my (greek) ex had 1000s of euros in her bank account because her father ran a garage but didnt want to pay tax, when I asked her about it, she said she hated it, but its just what people do in greece.
Greece, blah, blah… they had all the national solutions of their own ready to go… but the pesky EU tried to stop them… and so they left the EU and are now a powerhouse in Europe, taking full advantage of their position outside the Single Market and Customs Union… look at how their exports to the rest of the world rise… look how the interest on their debts dropped… wow… we should try that.
Now, back to what should Labour do? Change leader.
He 3 line whipped his own MPs to trigger article 50. In doing so he not only set the clock ticking on the imminent catastrophe, he also handed ALL authority over to a Tory party in the grip of the lunatics of the ERG.
Another question, if Corbyn had allowed a free vote would it have been defeated? At the point of activating A50, as at every other point, labour had no power to stop brexit unless quite a few tories supported them. The only tory to vote against A50 was Ken Clarke, and your remain hero Anna Soubry voted for it.
You're blaming the wrong person/people. Irrespective of his own views, Corbyn had no power to stop brexit. He is however offering you a chance to stop brexit via a second referendum. I can't for the life of me understand why remainers aren't biting his hand off and are instead pinning their hopes on the miniscule chance that the lib dems might miraculously form the next government.
The only people who are to blame for brexit are the tories. If everyone remembered that it might help stop it. Instead though you want to shift the blame onto the only people who can stop them, and so ensure that it happens in the worst form possible under Johnson. Madness!
Fancy that? Because I bloody don’t!
Nope. Which is why I will be voting labour in Calderdale as it's a very close lab-tory marginal. I'd love to vote green, as they're much closer to the radical anti-neoliberal policies which I think we need in the long term to fix both climate change and inequality. Sadly though our system and the electorial arithmetic force me to vote for labour. Anything else is just pointless virtue signalling.
He is however offering you a chance to stop brexit via a second referendum
Only a damaging Tory Brexit, not a wonderful Labour Brexit.
...and frankly the policy (however confused) is the side issue here. the main issue is a leader who has no interest in leading.
The only people who are to blame for brexit are the tories.
And Labour. And their lifelong eurosceptic leader. And the Straight Left anti-Europe team around him.
Sadly though our system and the electorial arithmetic force me to vote for labour.
What if the LibDems, and others, stood aside to allow the Greens a run at the Calderdale seat? Would you vote Green then? Feeling you have to vote Labour, rather than want to, is strong in many places… perhaps it is part of our problem, rather than something to stick with.
Now, back to what should Labour do? Change leader.
And I presume when they have a new leader they simply press the magic button at labour HQ which says 'Stop Brexit. Do not press!'. I also presume that when they've successfully removed Corbyn the huge proportion of the membership who supported him will simply fall back into line under Watson instead of unleashing a civil war that will finally tear the party apart? How then do they win power and stop brexit?
The only people who are to blame for brexit are the tories.
And Labour.
How?
Okay, keep Corbyn as leader, if that is required to stop “Civil War” in the Party… If he is needed to solve internal politics, then keep him, and let others get on with forming an alternative to the Conservative Brexit party… but that’s a high risk approach for all of us.
And Labour. And their lifelong eurosceptic leader. And the Straight Left anti-Europe team around him
Too much conflation.
The public voted for Brexit and the Tories enabled it.
Either way, if we'd not all joined in on the path of Neoliberalism by voting for such we wouldn't be here now.
Blame ourselves.
Do “the public” only listen to the Tories now? Is Labour’s voice really now that irrelevant? I’d like to think not… yet.
I love how Jess Phillips is highlighting not voting for her own party in a potential vonc in the Government.
Idiots. Stupid centrist idiots.
Do “the public” only listen to the Tories now? Is Labour’s voice really now that irrelevant? I’d like to think not… yet
Well they're still in power.
With a majority of… how many?
Few opposition leaders have the power in Parliament that Corbyn has had available to him.
And, when not in power, politicians need to be showing people why they should be in power… Corbyn is failing at that, and worse, his team have sought to neuter too many people in the party who have tried to do just that. He has cobbled the electoral chances for the party. Him and his Straight Left team of Milne, Murray & Co. They are ruining the party, ignoring members, and failing those that need them. Where is the leadership? It all feels like a “wait and see” strategy… and many who were prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt on that in 2017 are not prepared to in 2019. Too much waiting…
Neoliberalism
someone please start another thread to argue about whatever they mean by this term (am I neoliberal? I'm a member of the labour party and I want to live in a fairer world, and not just talk about this. Since labour have been out of power things have been getting worse and this is accelerating. Do you really want to wazz me out of the party?)
This thread's about an invisible, unavailable, and frankly inadequate to the task leader who needs replacing. By anyone.
I love how Jess Phillips...
This Jess Phillip's?
https://medium.com/@hwalker2476/jess-phillips-narcissist-477d1c833fe
This thread’s about an invisible, unavailable, and frankly inadequate to the task leader who needs replacing. By anyone.
Yet the Progressbots don't seem to be able to organise for their preferred leader, despite two attempts.
Corbyn had no power to stop brexit.
See I don't think that's true. Given a rubbish May Govt that had a teeny majority, a labour party that almost wholly remain, and a crack at TV/Radio etc week in week out telling every working man and women about how they'd been duped into voting against their interests, I think we'd be in a very different place right now. But we didn't get that, we got an opposition party stupefied into silence by anti semitism, an absentee Leader, and a group including Corbyn that were complicit in allowing Brexit to happen because ideologically; that's what they want.
Given a rubbish May Govt that had a teeny majority, a labour party that almost wholly remain
Labour Leavers are more than enough votes to compensate.
Labour Leavers are more than enough votes to compensate.
yep theyll see the right wing fantasy of a no deal brext come true
Labour Party in continuing to be completely and utterly ****ing useless shocka!
https://twitter.com/channel4news/status/1158767410909986821?s=21
Labour Leavers are more than enough votes to compensate
Sure about that? Most of them have likely bogged off to brexit party.
He is however offering you a chance to stop brexit via a second referendum
That’s a lie & you know it.
And anyone that switches from voting for a socialistish party to a right wing party which is the opposite was not actually voting for Labour for the right reasons so surprising they stayed for so long.
Well, anyone who is voting leave has a serious logic failure, imo. I don't like to write people off though.
Sure about that? Most of them have likely bogged off to brexit party.
Back in June the following Labour MPs signed a letter to Corbyn asking him not to back a second referendum and to back a Brexit deal before the 31st October.
- Sir Kevin Barron
- Sarah Champion
- Julie Cooper
- Rosie Cooper
- Jon Cruddas
- Gloria De Piero
- Jim Fitzpatrick
- Caroline Flint
- Yvonne Fovargue
- Grahame Morris
- Mary Glindon
- Lisa Nandy
- Mike Hill
- Melanie Onn
- Dan Jarvis
- Stephanie Peacock
- Stephen Kinnock
- Jo Platt
- Emma Lewell Buck
- Dennis Skinner
- Justin Madders
- Laura Smith
- John Mann
- Gareth Snell
- Jim McMahon
- Ruth Smeeth
As I'm sure some folks will note, a number of them were Pro-EU previously, despite representing Brexit backing constituencies. It's really not as simple as stating "they were Pro-EU so will always vote that way".
Sure about that? Most of them have likely bogged off to brexit party.
I wasn't aware that the Brexit party had any MPs. Must've missed that on the news.
greek debt was the burning issue in Leave voters minds
could you actually say that with a straight face?
Umm. No. But that’s ok. Because I didn’t say it at all.
Can we make this thread more positive please?
How about people posting links to strong contributions made by Corbyn since the new government was installed? Something I can share with others concerned about the shift even further right, and towards an even harder Brexit, of our government. Videos, articles, interviews… the best bits please. Things that will really convince people that the alternative to this government is ready to stand up for them?
...tumbleweed...
Well, at this point, I think it might be best to let Boris mess up the country.
If Corbyn were to jump up and try to get in the way, all that's going to happen is that he lets Boris off the hook.
Whereas if/when the Conservatives do go ahead with this thing, and royally mess up the country, they will quite likely end up never again able to gain a workable majority, which can only be a net positive.
An interesting interview with Nichola Sturgeon in yesterdays Guardian sums up the glorious leaders contribution perfectly
I think the abdication of leadership on the part of Jeremy Corbyn right now will be as much of the stuff of the history books as what’s happening in the Tory party. And I think it’s tragic.
Seeing as its often its been left to Ian Blackford and the SNP to even raise the subject of Brexit in parliament, while Corbyn bangs on about rural bus services or Venezuela, I think thats fair comment
I see that McConnell appears to be making up policy on Scottish independence on the hoof.
R4 report this morning that McDonnell has said Labour will no longer stand in the way of another independence ref. Jesus.
Wow - does this mean that there seems to be a muddled, confused and totally unclear position on a referendum issue coming from the labour party?
Who'd have thunk it?
Perhaps it's more 'constructive ambiguity'? Fiendishly clever, but then given that its worked so well in the past and delivered such a commanding lead in the polls....
what's going to happen to the England/Scotland border if Scotland goes independant and rejoins the EU?
Going to have to be a hard border I suppose unless they use the same 'solution' as for NI...
R4 report this morning that McDonnell has said Labour will no longer stand in the way of another independence ref. Jesus.
And the problem with that is...?
And the problem with that is…?
That it states the polar opposite policy position to that which the leader of the Scottish Labour Party reiterated only yesterday
Sound familiar?
And the problem with that is…?
Oh. Right.
From a personal pov I don't really know where to start. Toodle pip Labour would cover it though, on reflection. I know, not a true believer. Just one more reason on the list not to vote for them.
leader of the Scottish Labour Party
Leader of the Labour Party in Scotland. It's a minor, but contextually important, difference as it indicates where power actually lies.
where power actually lies.
He also referred to the English parliament.
Sorry. I'm not that well versed on North of the border politics. I get the essential difference in the title though
What this illustrates is that the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. Or it does know and simply doesn't care?
In the space of two days, the Labour party has stated two totally contradictory policy positions on a really major, important issue.
Par for the course now with this shower though, isn't it?
Can I have some links to Corbyn coming forward to present the alternative to the new Johnson/Raab&co government, and how that alternative will stand up for people worried about the country shifting rightwards, and towards the hardest possible Brexit, at full speed… not had one yet, and there must be many… (that’s not sarcastic, there must be some, surely, just buried by others coming forward more successfully in the media with their own points, no…?)
Can I have some links to Corbyn coming forward to present the alternative to the new Johnson/Raab&co government, and how that alternative will stand up for people worried about the country shifting rightwards, and towards the hardest possible Brexit, at full speed…
This is the place to post a picture of the Monty Python "cheese shop" sketch ... 🙂
cant disagree with Peston here
And again, if you share my logic, Johnson probably wins - either because he succeeds in rigging the election timetable such that the new government cannot be formed till after the UK has left the EU on October 31, which is a prospect I regard as unlikely, or more likely because there is absolutely zero sign of Corbyn offering voters the necessary simple choice between a Tory party that would remove the UK from the EU, no ifs or buts, and a Labour party that would keep the UK in the EU.
Instead, and according to senior Labour forces, Corbyn seems wedded to the latest iteration of its complicated policy, which is to promise a further Brexit referendum.
And if voters were presented with a clear Tory policy to take the UK out of the EU without a deal, but an opposition divided between Labour hinting there could be a form of Brexit it might support and that in any event there must be a referendum, while other opposition parties were saying they would prefer simply to stay in the EU, then left-of-centre voters would understandably be muddled and anxious about who to support.
And if left-of-centre voters are disunited and unsure whether to vote for Labour, or Lib Dem or Green or Plaid or SNP, Johnson scoops the prize.
By the way, Johnson and Cummings are acutely aware that a referendum is much more dangerous for them than a general election.
It was obvious from the car-crash interview with Rebecca Wrong-Bailly last night on Channel 4 news that the fence-sitting will continue. Labour still has absolutely no intention of doing anything at all. It will do its usual... sit idly by allowing the Tory's to do what they like, while maybe occasionally calling for a general election which they know they won't get. But actually DOING anything? Not a chance!
She did handily confirm that, even in a total crisis, Labour will not be willing to co-operate with any other parties. Of course, they wouldn't. The 'other parties' being mentioned here (lib Dems, SNP, Greens) are all anti-Brexit, so why would they want to co-operate with them?
Better to keep doing what they're doing... continuing their coalition with the Tory's to deliver Brexit, which is, after all, what they both want
Once parliament is back, only one person can call for a Vote of No Confidence - Jeremy Corbyn
Don't hold your breath
Any links to Corbyn doing his thing to oppose the new government? Something to suggest he isn’t just waiting for the Tories to get on with their new thing? Examples of him sticking up for those that don’t want what Johnson and his crew (including those from right wing USA funded agitators thing tanks) have in store for us? Pretty please?
It seems he's a bit busy. He's using his time constructively by starting a fight with ... the Tories!
Only kidding. Of course, he hasn't. He's now started an argument with the Scottish Labour Party and the last 12 remaining labour voters in Scotland.
You've got to admire the commitment to making sure the labour party are never in government ever again and letting the Tories get on with delivering Brexit
You’ve got to admire the commitment to making sure the labour party are never in government ever again and letting the Tories get on with delivering Brexit
Well you've got your mates Watson, Phillips and Hodge to largely blame for the first part of that.
#notCorbynsfault
I suppose, if he does nothing at all, we can’t be critical of what he does.
Afternoon Comrade
Wifi in the bunker still working ok? We were worried for a while
Don't you find it interesting that you can change your mind on having a (Scottish indy) referendum, on a whim, without any consultation with anyone, but on the other referendum (Brexit) you absolutely have to deliver on 'the will of the people and you absolutely can't change your mind EVER (except if...if...if...if...if...if...if...if...if...if...)
Care to talk us through this latest vote-winner?
because to me it looks the same as trying to chase Brexit supporting, Leave voters who would never vote labour in a million years anyway
This time they're transparently trying to woo SNP voters who wouldn't either
In the process managing to alienate everyone else as well.
Especially your own representatives and members
... actually, that has a familiar ring to it, doesn't it?
Genius strategizing, grandad!
Long game, Comrade Binnerski, long game...
Don’t you find it interesting that you can change your mind on having a (Scottish indy) referendum, on a whim, without any consultation with anyone, but on the other referendum (Brexit) you absolutely have to deliver on ‘the will of the people and you absolutely can’t change your mind EVER
It may be interesting if it was even closely related, which it isn't. Saying you can have a referendum is not the same as doing whatever the result is.
It would be like having a Scottish referendum, the vote going Leave (say 52/48) and then the Labour government not allowing them to leave. Would you be happy with that if you were a Scottish person who voted leave?
That's not the case though is it?
It's him saying 'you lot up there may have changed your mind, so you can have a second referendum, the rest of you may well have changed your mind as well, but you're definitely not getting a second referendum'
Surly the message that this sends out is that he's absolutely going to deliver Brexit, at any cost, and if Scottish Independence happens as a result of that, then he's not really fussed. I suspect he feels the same way about Norn Ireland>
So, as in so many ways, he's no different from your average ERG loon
You’ve got to admire the commitment to making sure the labour party are never in government ever again and letting the Tories get on with delivering Brexit
Looks like a very good strategy. Let the Tories deliver Brexit and pay the cost, get elected as part of the aftermath leading a Labour government with the UK out of the EU just as they always wanted. If you don't like that don't vote for them but you can't fault the strategy.
It’s him saying ‘you lot up there may have changed your mind, so you can have a second referendum, the rest of you may well have changed your mind as well, but you’re definitely not getting a second referendum’
Has he ruled out a second ref for Brexit? If he wanted one does he have the power to have one?
No and No.
Has he ruled out a second ref for Brexit? If he wanted one does he have the power to have one?
No and No.
Exactly the same as with a Scottish Indyref then? He had no power to deliver that if we're still sicking with the laughable charade of party democracy. Are we? Are we still doing that? Really?
By the sounds of it, this was the first that the Scottish labour Party had heard about the change of policy, so can we please give up this ludicrous idea that Corbyn isn't a little tinpot dictator, surrounded by his unelected advisors who are in the bunker, making up policy on the hoof, without consulting anyone
you’re definitely not getting a second referendum
To be fair, that isn’t the case… it’s more that you might or might not have one, and if you do it might not be on what you’d hope and expect it to be on. Assuming you are referring to a referendum on Brexit. Anyway, the London Labour team wanting to move away from an anti-SNP type vibe probably makes good sense. Promising to block a referendum in Scotland will come back to bite them on the arse when that promise needs dropping to get support in Westminster to form a minority government in future. What does Corbyn have to say about a possible future referendum in Scotland? Or should we just assume a multiple policy approach here as well?
can we please give up this ludicrous idea that Corbyn isn’t a little tinpot dictator who’s making up policy on the hoof
He isn't. He's a 'useful idiot.
Looks like a very good strategy. Let the Tories deliver Brexit and pay the cost, get elected as part of the aftermath leading a Labour government with the UK out of the EU just as they always wanted. If you don’t like that don’t vote for them but you can’t fault the strategy.
I agree that this is the policy, but do you think it'll really be the Tory's paying the price?
Of course, it won't.
It'll be us mugs who lose our jobs, who's businesses go bust, etc, etc, etc....
The labour party has clearly decided that that is indeed a price worth paying for their promised socialist utopia
Brilliant!
What does Corbyn have to say about a possible future referendum in Scotland? Or should we just assume a multiple policy approach here as well?
Same old 'to me... to you' policy we've seen on Brexit, as it's gone so well
The Scottish Labour party have already kicked off about it, saying this is not policy party, and it's very clear this is the first they'd heard about it
Still... an internal party battle for being seen to be useless on a Scottish ref is a useful distraction for being hopeless on Brexit
The labour party has clearly decided that that is indeed a price worth paying for their promised socialist utopia
You're mixing up labour and the tories again. Labour have a clear policy to protect jobs with a permanent customs union and de-facto singlemarket membership. If that's not possible, and even if it is, they're offering a second referendum where we'll get the chance to stop brexit altogether. We have the simple choice to take that chance or put all our chips on the libdems winning power. You're a betting man aren't you? Do the maths.
The Scottish Labour party have already kicked off about it, saying this is not policy party, and it’s very clear this is the first they’d heard about it
Since when has an off the cuff opinion by a labour shadow cabinet member automatically become party policy? One of the things that sets apart the current labour party from that under Blair and Brown is that MPs are free to express their opinions on policy rather than stick rigidly to a party line and message discipline. It's pretty ironic that many on here stupidly compare labour to the soviet communist party, yet then complain that they're not all saying the same thing and are going off message.
Labour have a clear policy to protect jobs with a permanent customs union and de-facto singlemarket membership.
Interesting description of a “clear policy”… but if it is as you describe won’t the public see that as the Brexit vote being overturned? All signs so far suggest many will.
we’ll get the chance to stop brexit altogether
Won’t much of the public see that as the Brexit vote being overturned?
Crossing the streams… a quote from you…
Go back a couple of hundred pages and you’ll see I said this would happen if the public thought the brexit vote was being overturned.
So… whatever you consider the Labour policy, in all circumstances, carries the danger of “The Public” (or rather the significant minority desperate to Leave) considering it to be an overturning of the Brexit vote… but we should still be angry with “Hard Remainers” who seek a policy that would also be seen by “The Public” as an overturning of the Brexit vote?
One of the things that sets apart the current labour party from that under Blair and Brown is that MPs are free to express their opinions on policy rather than stick rigidly to a party line and message discipline
Remind me... Corbyn voted against the Blair/Brown Labour government how many times?
Ahem...
Between 1997 and 2010, during the most recent Labour Government, Corbyn was the Labour MP who voted most often against the party whip, including three-line whip votes. In 2005 he was identified as the second most rebellious Labour MP of all time when the party was in government.[87] He was the most rebellious Labour MP in the 1997–2001 Parliament,[88] the 2001–2005 Parliament[89] and the 2005–2010 Parliament, defying the whip 428 times while Labour was in power
Bloody New Labour control freaks and their Stalinist ways
Back bench MPs speaking their mind and voting with their conscience, and the Shadow Cabinet not having a clear stated policy, are not the same thing.
The country is used to back bench MPs rebelling (and they should). What they are currently getting used to is not having a clue what the Shadow Cabinet would be doing if they became the government. That is a failure of leadership.
Crossing the streams…
I'll think you'll find I'm on record as saying a second referendum isn't a great idea IMO because remain will probably lose again for the reasons I've stated many times and it will deepen divisions. The fact is though that it's the only currently available and achievable method of stopping brexit, if that's what you want.
Nice to see you acknowledging finally though that overturning brexit is something that is possible under labour policy. I presume you'll be voting for them then. 😉
I agree that this is the policy, but do you think it’ll really be the Tory’s paying the price?
Of course, it won’t.
It’ll be us mugs who lose our jobs, who’s businesses go bust, etc, etc, etc….
The labour party has clearly decided that that is indeed a price worth paying for their promised socialist utopia
Yes, the tories will pay the price by not being in power. And yes it may be a price worth paying if Labour plans get put in place as it would a much better country to live in for the majority of people. How many job losses and businesses going bust is an unknown at this point.
I agree that this is the policy, but do you think it’ll really be the Tory’s paying the price?
Of course, it won’t.
It’ll be us mugs who lose our jobs, who’s businesses go bust, etc, etc, etc….
The labour party has clearly decided that that is indeed a price worth paying for their promised socialist utopia
If you follow their ...logic, this is helpful, they imagine that the Conservatives are helping Labour to bring about a British version of Venuzuela.
Anyway, Islington Labour has wiped out the reason for the existance of Scottish Labour, not understanding that any Scottish independence would probably bring a permanent Conservative majority in England and Wales.
To think I was worried that they might do something competent.
All this “it’s worth the pain of a Tory Brexit and all that entails to get a Labour government” is the best recipe to turn away potential voters. For decades, not just one election cycle. If that is what all this “wait and see” multiple messages and absent “leader” is all about, Labour won’t be forgiven for shafting all the people it should’ve been representing.
What's crazy is that the Tories & their Brexit are costing the country billions, they are actively pursuing a policy to make the country poorer ever more divided & break up the union.
Somehow Labour manage to be helping them do it, - McDonnell's comments terrible for Scottish labour & boon to the SNP,
refusing to countenance a unity government a gift to the lib Dems, but real beneficiaries being the hard brexiteers...
The Tories seem intent on irrevocably damaging the UK but labour will only try & stop them on their own narrow terms.
Seems ‘Disaster Socialism’ is a real thing that’s presently being played with.
Great!
The Corbynites who think that the very real human misery that this madness will deliver is ‘a price worth paying’ to deliver their agenda...
You’re actually worse than the *ing Tories!
At least we fully expect that unfeeling, cold-hearted, inhuman, ideologically driven shite from them. That’s what the do. It’s all we expect from them.
What’s your excuse?
Yeah... you’ll be alright. The Islington cabal certainly will be
You’re exactly the same as them, just a different coloured rosette
*s!
To think what started as a tory gamble to win the last election has now become a suicidal disaster labour are happy to allow to happen for their precious 4yrs in power.
Utter ideological madness.
Of course disaster socialism is a thing Binners, they are definitely the types who will have read Che’s thoughts on revolution etc - CFHs video ends any kind of uncertainty about them being that brand of socialism.
The Corbyn defenders have constantly denied that is the plan, but now seem happy to admit it is - what they don’t understand is that it isn’t a route to power for labour - it will backfire and lead to a 1000 year Tory Reich. The one thing the British really hate are communists, and if it looks, sounds and acts like a communist - talking about imprisoning conservatives for social crimes etc - they will get destroyed.
Right now, that tickles me to death.