Jeremy Corbyn

Oooooooooo - we're talking military hardware again. I love it when we do that. Big guns and stuff. And how they provide the answers to everything, almost magically.

Tell me more.... I'm feeling all.... well.... you know......

Just pointing out that you said we have no intel when we clearly do. And your main issue for not intervening seems to be we have no intel.

where as you just want to bomb someone in Syria and ignore the fact that we have changed sides

I would not class that as an intelligence based position personally.

Only one politician is presently saying this. And I think a dose of realism would be very welcome to a lot of people.

i think the Saturday morning UK news is going to be interesting. Just look at all the same tired old faces and new ones being dragged along on the establishments' panicking coat tails all lining up to give it both limp barrels in the media like a lot of swivel-eyed crazies shouting about the end of the world. You know what? I think that at the next election the country may very well, exhaustedly, just shrug say "Oh what the ****. Corbyn. Why not?" I might even do that meself just for the hell of it.

dragon - Member
Just pointing out that you said we have no intel when we clearly do. And your main issue for not intervening seems to be we have no intel.

The intel seems to be almost worthless going by the evidence though.

Just pointing out that you said we have no intel when we clearly do.

Is it helping us to decide which side we're on this week?

so why on earth do we think that we have the answers?

What gave you that idea?

I said that we should be trying to find out, then I realised we probably were, and had probably concluded that there was not much we could do. Possibly could be different with more money or political support.

Unlike you binners I don't think I have all the answers!

I said that we should be trying to find out, then I realised we probably were, and had probably concluded that there was not much we could do.

"Intelligence" said that factionalism was to be encouraged within Syria, as a means of toppling Assad. How did that work out?

Mr Woppit - Member
You know what? I think that at the next election the country may very well, exhaustedly, just shrug say "Oh what the ****. Corbyn. Why not?" I might even do that meself just for the hell of it.

Nope. That's not going to happen for a while. 😛

"Oh what the ****. Corbyn. Why not?" I might even do that meself just for the hell of it.

+1

Or Caroline Lucas, who seems to be the only person in recent days pointing out the sickening irony of hosting an International Arms Trade Fair in London whilst debating the Refugee Crisis. Curiously unreported anywhere though... 😕

I said that we should be trying to find out, then I realised we probably were, and had probably concluded that there was not much we could do.

The opposite of that is actually true Molls. Its abundantly clear that we've not a scooby's whats actually happening on the ground in places like Aleppo. For very obvious reason - the unfortunate fact that its difficult to report back what you've observed when you haven't got a head,

Yet despite this fact, Dave is advocating military action in Syria? Against who, this time? And to achieve an outcome of what exactly?

Again... this is a colonial arrogance that somehow we'll just rock up, put the uppity natives in their place, and everyone will be eternally grateful. Despite the massively overwhelming evidence to the contrary that the last decade has so relentlessly delivered.

Its .... Oooooo I get to use a Tony Quote on a Corbyn thread.... 'Alice in Wonderland Politics'.

In this instance its everyone else indulging in it, not Jezza. He's the only one talking sense.

Dave is advocating military action in Syria? Against who, this time? And to achieve an outcome of what exactly?

[i]You may be confused about why we are bombing Iraq and Syria. So we will make ourselves very clear.

We support the Iraqi government in the fight against ISIS.

We don't like ISIS, but ISIS has been supported by Saudi Arabia, whom we do like, and Saudi Arabia is now supporting us in bombing ISIS.

We don't like President Assad in Syria. We support the fight against him, but not ISIS, which is also fighting against him.

We don't like Iran, but Iran supports the Iraqi government against ISIS.

So some of our friends support our enemies and some of our enemies are our friends, and some of our enemies are fighting against our other enemies whom we want to lose, but we don't want our enemies who are fighting our enemies to win.

If the people we want to defeat are defeated, they might be replaced by people we like even less.

And all this was started by us invading Iraq to drive out terrorists who weren't there until we went to drive them out.

We hope you now understand. [/i]

http://stopwar.org.uk/news/obama-and-cameron-clear-up-any-confusion-about-why-they-are-bombing-iraq-and-syria

13thfloormonk - Member

"Oh what the ****. Corbyn. Why not?" I might even do that meself just for the hell of it.

+1

Or Caroline Lucas, who seems to be the only person in recent days pointing out the sickening irony of hosting an International Arms Trade Fair in London whilst debating the Refugee Crisis. Curiously unreported anywhere though...

The world ends at that instant ... 😯

good post Ernie - this level of confusion means there is no basis for clear objectives to be set nor for strategy to be executed - certainly not one that involves a military option.

Scary examples of mission creep going on plus a willingness to engage military solutions without basic questions being answered. When will we learn?

*Breathes huge sigh of relief*

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/sep/11/sadiq-khan-elected-as-labours-candidate-for-mayor-of-london ]Sadiq Khan elected as Labour's candidate for mayor of London[/url]

I can't believe that such a pointless and self-serving "Labour" politician as Tessa Jowell was in with a chance, let alone be considered the front-runner.

Worryingly, that article has just reminded me that if Jezza does get elected then we'll probably see the return to front-bench politics of....

Diane Abbott

Electoral kryptonite

Diane Abbott

Totally outclassed on "This Week" by Michael Portillo.

It is interesting how Corbyn's win will reverse the political fortunes of a number of politicians. A lot of relatively young ones like Liz Kendall will be thinking, this isn't why I got into politics, to kickabout on the backbenches. Whereas Diane Abbott must have had no expectation she might be in the shadow cabinet just a few weeks back.

[quote=badnewz said] Whereas Diane Abbott must have had no expectation she might be in the shadow cabinet

<shudders>

Diane Abbott

Electoral kryptonite

Diane Abbot isn't popular on STW but she is fairly popular among Labour voters.

[url= http://www.newstatesman.com/staggers/2014/06/poll-reveals-diane-abbott-mp-labour-voters-favourite-london-mayoral-candidate ]Poll reveals Diane Abbott MP as Labour voters’ favourite for London mayoral candidate[/url]

Diane Abbot has already served as a shadow minister and imo she has greater credibility than Tessa Jowell - I just don't see the point of Tessa Jowell. Unlike Tessa Jowell Diane Abbot strongly opposed the Iraq War, which imo is a fair gauge of a politician's credibility and judgement.

Diane Abbot isn't popular on STW but she is fairly popular among [b]London[/b] Labour voters.

London ain't the UK, as the writer of the article in your previous link acknowledges.

Yes I am well aware that London isn't the UK. What's your point - that Diane Abbott is fairly popular among London Labour voters but deeply disliked outside London?

If so what is it based on - a hunch or some evidence?

Khan, who comfortably beat off the challenge of Tessa Jowell, said he was overwhelmed, adding that he had never dreamed he would be standing as Labour candidate for mayor

He's probably not alone there!

Still a shot in the arm for Jezza - quite a dramatic and remarkable transformation in the Opposition in a matter of months. Interesting to see how it all plays out

If DA comes back then perhaps Grammar Schools will be back in vogue!! So old Dave chooses a state secondary and while the Opposition chose alternatives (Ok Jezza fell out with the missus on that one). Funny old world

this is a colonial arrogance that somehow we'll just rock up, put the uppity natives in their place, and everyone will be eternally grateful.

I really don't think it's this.

I think they want to help, but aren't bright enough to know how to do it very well, and are heavily swayed by public opinion.

I'm still confused about who the enemy is...
the IS (ex-Saddam Sunni led forces) in Iraq
the IS (anti-Assad Sunni forces) in Syria
Iran & it's Shiite militia friend
our good 'friends & allies' Turkey attacking those PKK Kurdish terrorists
Those terrorists/freedom fighter Kurds
Those terrorist supporting Saudi's and it's Sunni dictator friends

Or can we just ignore them and pay Greece's Euro debt if they promise to look after all the refugees nicely?

I'm still confused about who the enemy is...

Pretty much everybody, just about covers it. But give Dave 6 months, on his present mindless course, and if there's anyone we've not yet completely pissed off in the region, we'll probably have managed it by then

If so what is it based on - a hunch or some evidence?

Gender and skin colour I'm guessing. Or her incredibly annoying accent and mannerisms.

Khan, who comfortably beat off the challenge of Tessa Jowell, said he was overwhelmed, adding that he had never dreamed he would be standing as Labour candidate for mayor

Not a totally surprising thing to hear from the son of a ****stani immigrant bus driver who was brought up in a council flat with 7 other brothers and sisters.

It would be more surprising to hear Boris Johnson make a similar remark.

Gender and skin colour I'm guessing. Or her incredibly annoying accent and mannerisms.

I find the sanctimonious preachyness more irritating than anything. She single-handedly personifies a certain type of lefty we-know-whats-best-for-you attitude that went with Nu Labour

yes, the boy's "done good" - all credit to him

My point is you can't extrapolate Labour voters in London to Labour voters in the rest of the UK.

It would be more surprising to hear Boris Johnson make a similar remark.

I would definitely be surprised to hear that Boris Johnson would be standing as a labour candidate for mayor.

My point is you can't extrapolate Labour voters in London to Labour voters in the rest of the UK.

MSP 😀

In the meantime, Dave loses the Yorkshire voters

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-34222801

I would definitely be surprised to hear that Boris Johnson would be standing as a labour candidate for mayor.

Which is why I said "similar remark" and not "the same remark".

.

My point is you can't extrapolate Labour voters in London to Labour voters in the rest of the UK.

But you can extrapolate Binner's obvious dislike for Diane Abott and apply it to the rest of the UK?

She single-handedly personifies a certain type of lefty we-know-whats-best-for-you attitude that went with Nu Labour

Dead Ringers on R4 do a hilarious send-up of her. If you haven't heard it get on I-Player.

Dave loses the Yorkshire voters

I dunno, I reckons there's fair few heads nodding in 'greement round gods own county at t'minute 😀

Cameron claims Boycott & Dickie Bird agree with him. So that's OK then.

haha 😀

Excellent @klunk

Kahn is a good candidate for Mayor, whether he can attract voters who previously helped to elect Boris remains to be seen. He could well boost the Laboir vote by getting a higher turnout, I confess I don't know how the mayoral vote works - single constituency (good for Kahn) vs multiple (worse). Goldsmith is an interesting opponent, balancing his family wealth with his environmental credentials.

Not meaning to be patronising at all but he's a role model for young Muslims about what you can achieve in the UK. There is another route than becoming bitter and twisted about lack of opportunity or lack of respect.

Diane Abbott and a Corbyn Shadow Cabinet.

I heard Jeremy say that he intended to form a shadow cabinet from the broader Laboir party and that MPs weren't the be all and end all. So what does he mean ? Trade unionists in the Shadow Cabinet (that seems a bit jobs for the boys to me).

I also read Corbyn would not take the oath to be in the privy council so he cannot receive classified briefings, so how can he make informed decisions on international policy and security matters ?

I also read Corbyn would not take the oath to be in the privy council so he cannot receive classified briefings,

My point is you can't extrapolate Labour voters in London to Labour voters in the rest of the UK.

So what does he mean ? Trade unionists in the Shadow Cabinet (that seems a bit jobs for the boys to me).

To be in the Shadow Cabinet a person has to be an MP or a member of the House of Lords, I'm surprised you didn't know that jambalaya.

So Jeremy Corbyn and Tom Watson then.

Tony Blair must be spinning in his grave.

[img] [/img]

Watson has just overrun on his speech.

He was supposed to have a 3 minute slot and seems to talking for about 10.

Like all of them, just loves the sound of his own voice.

Tom Watson just used the word 'comrades'. The worm has definitely turned.

Get in!

Yay! for Team Clown Shoes !

I'd just like to thank all those who have made a conservative victory in 2020 possible.

Woo. Nice one!

Not even close. I'm shocked, and really rather emotional. Never thought I'd see the day.

This is when all the MPs who said they'd never support him start resigning, right?

[b]The people's flag is deepest red,
It shrouded oft our martyred dead
And ere their limbs grew stiff and cold,
Their hearts' blood dyed its every fold.
So raise the scarlet standard high,
Beneath its shade we'll live and die,
Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer,
We'll keep the red flag flying here
[/b]

Well done Corbyn. An incredible story and extraordinary period of politics recently and ahead.

(Not sure about all the friendly stuff now though. More false smiles than the Oscars!)

I am sure the unity will last till they get off stage/cameras are not on them THM 😀

So we will have Corbyn and then [hopefully] Tories imploding over the EU vote....interesting times ahead.

"Think where man's glory most begins and ends, and say my glory was I had such friends."

William Butler Yeats

I wonder if the Conservative party will fall apart now there's no opposition for the next election to unite them.

Hang on, didn't Labour vote against assisted suicide last week?

This is when all the MPs who said they'd never support him start resigning, right?

First one jumps ship during the speech! No lack of energy in that presentation. First PMQ's is going to be interesting. Keep your eye on the new chief whip.

Well, at least the Labour Party will actually be the Labour Party again. I wouldn't necessarily write them off as unelectable just yet. There is a lot of time for the Tories to screw things up before the next election. Remember that John Smith would have been a shoe-in in 97. Whilst he wasn't a die hard socialist, he was certainly much more traditionally labour than Bliar. The greatest tragedy for the Labour Party was selling its soul to the devil when there probably wasn't any real need.

Let's hope we get some pragmatism rather than dogmatism for a change:

Railways - huge % of overall cost due to underlying infrastructure that is old in many cases and in need of constant maintenance. Allowing private companies to cherry pick the small % of things they are interested in doing and leaving the tax payer to pay for the inconvenient bit just isn't on. Nationalise.

Telecommunications - relatively small % of cost due to infrastructure, so the sector can be allowed to compete on the basis of innovation and price and give the best range of choices to consumers. Privatise.

Too often dogma gets in the way of doing the best thing.

i have to say that i'm glad he won.

hopefully he'll tell tony blair to go **** himself now 🙂

I think there will be a rain of corks from over tory party HQ right now...

I think the next few months will be interesting, there might even be a split in politics, just a shame there are more in the middle that the extreme. Where is Cougars pic of the bit about there being a very vocal minority than the rest.

This is when all the MPs who said they'd never support him start resigning, right?

Still struggling to get my head round it. I really never believed this day would come. The whole of the western world is experiencing a political shift against the neo-liberal consensus of the past 30 years. It's mind boggling to think that the vanguard of that will be here in the UK in the form of the labour party.

Blimey, these questions are awful - weak attempts to create headlines. Almost as bad as the new bloke in Newsnignt last night.

The media or MPs, who s worse?

Eds a bit lukewarm here!!

Be interesting to see what happens to the membership figures now.

racefaceec90 - Member
...hopefully he'll tell tony blair to go **** himself now

Hopefully he'll push to have Tony Blair face justice for war crimes...

It has to be a good thing, to have the opposition headed by someone who (apparently) has a conscience and a sense of equality.

Still struggling to get my head round it.

I'm not [i]that[/i] politically-savvy, but yeah, me too.

I wonder if it will switch back traditional Labour voters up here.

hopefully he'll actually do a decent job of being leader of the opposition party.

Nationalise railway, idiocy, it would lead to decades of inefficiency, new empire building and reorganisations. Better to get some oil industry contracts managers in to beat up the project delivery contractors.

It makes for interesting times but his hands will be tied and he will have to come back into line like the government in Greece. It just shows how far to the right the centre of gravity of British politics has been pulled that he should be regarded as a revolutionary. It seems that the groundswell of support for Corbyn came from people who don't usually have a media presence or voice so some see it as coming out of the blue (sic). I think there is a significant shift of opinion away from neoliberalism but it has yet to develop a consistent perspective or ideology and therein lies its weakness.

Can Jezza be PM, ie, would the country which has just voted conservative and SNP, vote Labour under Jezza instead? If no-one believes it could happen, then his position in opposition is pointless. Opposition's influence comes from the notion that they can become government and implement their own policies. Without that, and ignoring chatter and noise, they have as much real influence as a 1990s Liberal.

Almost as bad as the new bloke in Newsnignt last night.

You mean the one who didn't agree that there is a BBC conspiracy to blacken the name of our good friends the Saudis? He was a bit odd but I'm not sure how he could have done differently faced with interviewees who were happy to claim that the most blatant and outrageous lies are the truth. Come to think of it ...

Tony Blair must be spinning in his grave.

We should be so lucky!

Tom Watson, will be great to see him with a senior role. Have been impressed with his contributions to the Hacked Off campaign, his can hold a room when speaking and one to one on the few occasions I've been able to meet him.

Get in Corbyn !!!

I see the SNP are claiming a Corbyn victory is a basis for another Indpendence Referendum 🙂 Everything is the basis for a new referendum in their book. I think Scotland is going to prove a big test for Corbyn, personally I think Strugeon will make mincemeat of him, she's already calling him out on Trident and a response of "I'll consult" isn't going to wash

Plenty of shadow cabinet resignations, more to come I'd say.

Labour will now get the chance to debate and see how the electorate reacts to a more left wing agenda. I heard his supporters singing the Reg Flag when escorting him into the Queen Elizabeth II centre