Jeremy Corbyn

clod
would be interesting
photoj project
to
document diversity
at meeting
just
an idea

Clod, that's an idea. Go to rallies of several parties, develop the photo journalism skills and test the hypothesis re diversity. The results would be interesting.

Well, someone a few days ago, appeared not to know the difference between Momentum members, and the far-right. So it would serve as an educational resources for some folk.

I was actually mindful of trying to avoid clichéd pictures of 'diversity', you know, white people enjoying engaging with 'ethnics', that sort of thing, but I couldn't actually avoid it! It genuinely was so mixed. Benetton would have killed to get such a range of people into it's advertising.

I might try to get along to a couple of Owen Smith rallies. Mind you; I could easily miss them, I've seen larger family groups out shopping, than what's been at some of his gatherings! 😆

Well, someone a few days ago, appeared not to know the difference between Momentum members, and the far-right. So it would serve as an educational resources for some folk.

even labour voters seem to be swallowing the lies about him and his supporters

I'm fed up with the aggressive psychological tactics that are being employed in this class war..

The establishment and the snivelling defeated sycophants that balefully prop up the establishment's sinister dystopian empires are so petrified of change, so terrified of losing their pathetically outdated and corrupt notions of pride and esteem...
So afraid of taking some moral responsibility that they have seemingly no insight, no self-awareness, no clue about the transparency and [i]futility[/i] of the harrowingly violent intellectual strategies they are employing to try to stem the tide..

silly canutes

Benetton? Another blast from the past, how apt!!!

Blimey - they're working really hard to dig stuff up.
If all they can come up with is this then it's pretty complementary of Corbyn imo.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/15/jeremy-corbyn-called-for-complete-rehabilitation-of-leon-trotsky/

Imagine if they dug as deep for stuff on the Tories!

struggling to see relevance
of obscure parts
of
russian history
to
anything

benetton
blast from the past
trotsky
important current issue
???

I think the issue with JC is he doesn't even have any experience of a senior or even a junior job in government / shadow cabinet. The goof up he made with his tax return is just embarrasing - do you have any pension income - yes/no. Not rocket science. He earns more than enough miney to pay an accountant £500 to do his tax return (he has a pension worth £1.6m FFS). Its an example of his stubborness and "leftie credentials" that he didn't do so.

@clod you do understand that Zionism is simply the belief that the Jewish people have the legitimate right to a homeland, to self governance ? So pretty much the whole world supports Zionism including the UN and the Palastinian Authrotiy. Clearly Hamas do not as they wish to drive the Jews into the sea and eradicate the State of Israel. There is rather a lot of very deliberate misuse of the term to deligitimise it, Jewsand the entire State of Isreal. You just did it yourself with the Jewish Labour Movement. Its also convenient shorthand for anti-semitic abuse. I have been frequently called a Zionist here as a term of abuse, I am unashamedly Zionist as I believe in the right of the State of Israel to exist. I am in favour of a two-state solution. It is possible to be both.

I think the issue with JC is he doesn't even have any experience of a senior or even a junior job in government / shadow cabine

Whereas his supporters see this as a good thing. Its not like ministers do anything other than give instructions to cival servants anyway.

Thats all well and good. Perhaps his supporters might also like to hop on a bus with someone who's never actually driven behind the wheel. After all... all driving is is turning a wheel and stamping on some pedals. How hard can it be?

You do realise that Yes Minister wasn't actually a documentary, right?

You do realise that Yes Minister wasn't actually a documentary, right?

😆

"@clod you do understand that Zionism is simply the belief that the Jewish people have the legitimate right to a homeland, to self governance ? So pretty much the whole world supports Zionism including the UN and the Palastinian Authrotiy. Clearly Hamas do not as they wish to drive the Jews into the sea and eradicate the State of Israel. There is rather a lot of very deliberate misuse of the term to deligitimise it, Jewsand the entire State of Isreal. You just did it yourself with the Jewish Labour Movement. Its also convenient shorthand for anti-semitic abuse."

Did you actually notice that I wrote 'right-wing Zionism'? Or did you conveniently ignore that bit deliberately? You will of course be aware that Zionism takes many forms, from the original, left-wing (Socialist, even!) liberal Zionism, to the more modern extreme right wing form which is basically another form of fascism. So don't go accusing me of 'misusing' the term. I'm more than aware of the term being used as a form of abuse (as is 'Socialist' these days, even evidenced on this very thread!). But don't start crying that anti-Semitism wolf; it's not working any more. Those who support and attempt to legitimise the actions of the Israeli state towards the Palestinian people cannot, and must not continue to cry 'anti-Semitism' any time anyone criticises Israeli state actions and government policies.

" Clearly Hamas do not as they wish to drive the Jews into the sea and eradicate the State of Israel. There is rather a lot of very deliberate misuse of the term to deligitimise it, Jewsand the entire State of Isreal."

You do understand that not all members of Hamas think like this, don't you? Without wishing to justify the actions that group has been responsible for (and there are many utterly morally reprehensible aspects of Hamas), it is a fact that Hamas gained support and popularity as a direct consequence of the actions of the Israeli government and military. The vast majority of Palestinian people want peace, as do most Israeli people. But there are equally vile characters on both sides, the main difference being, some of those on the Israeli side hold an awful lot of power. There are far more anti-Arab fascists in Israel, than there are anti-Semites in Palestine. The appointment of Avigdor Lieberman as defence minister, even attracted concern from a former Israeli prime minister.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-politics-idUSKCN0YE1I6

Then there's the appointment of a religious extremist who advocates the rape of women, becoming chief rabbi in the Israeli army:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-politics-idUSKCN0YE1I6

You are ominously silent on such things, Jamba. And openly hateful towards Corbyn, hence your continued attempts to slur him and Labour as 'anti-Semitic'. I have asked you more than once, about your views on the rise in far-right extremism and genuine anti-Semitism in Europe, yet you choose to ignore me and remain silent. This, I believe, is an indication that you aren't really so concerned about anti-Semitism, because if you genuinely were, you'd admit the attempted slurs on Corbyn are unfounded and nothing more than slander designed to undermine him.

Fantastic interview with Jess Phillips on Radio 4 just finished

I have to say, that for a ultra right-wing Red Tory she doesn't come across as very right wing...

@clod you do understand that Zionism is simply the belief that the Jewish people have the legitimate right to a homeland, to self governance ?

Zionism refer to the Israel right or wrong , that you epitomise, who shout racist at anyone who dares to criticise the MO of the apartheid state and then tell us all how Muslims are such a threat to our very way of life

As clod notes you are literally incapable of criticising anything israel does from bombing schools, collective punishments, "putting people on a diet- ie starving the entire territory,illegal land grabs and settlements, or carrying out political assassinations home and abroad.

I have to say, that for a ultra right-wing Red Tory she doesn't come across as very right wing

84% of local labour parties back Corbyn. Bloody entryists.

Nice to see a man of principle.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/aug/16/jeremy-corbyn-floor-three-hour-train-journey-london-newcastle

Thats all well and good. Perhaps his supporters might also like to hop on a bus with someone who's never actually driven behind the wheel. After all... all driving is is turning a wheel and stamping on some pedals. How hard can it be?

Its hardly the same is it. So by your logic only an ex pm could be pm? The fact is regardless of the team in charge at the time they all just make decisions based on doctrine rather than in response to facts or whats going on around them. If Boris can be foreign sec Corbyn can be pm.

If Boris can be foreign sec

complete the sentence
any way
you like

The fact is regardless of the team in charge at the time they all just make decisions based on doctrine rather than in response to facts or whats going on around them.

You should change decisions based on the data, but the problem is the public and the media then accuse them of changing their mind and want 'conviction' politicians.

Only recent MP I've heard say he'll change his opinion based on the data is Vince Cable and guess what he spent most of his career in industry.

Corbyn clearly hasn't changed his opinion on anything in 40 years, despite the evidence that he is wrong on many accounts.

Binners - what experience did Blair have? Cameron? Gideon? Clegg?

Corbyn clearly hasn't changed his opinion on anything in 40 years, despite the evidence that he is wrong on many accounts.

He may have principles different from yours but if you dont admire the very few who have them and keep them, whatever their hue, then that is a reflection of you not them.

When the data shows you that your 'principles' will not result in the change you are trying to achieve then it's time to change.

Sturgeon will. She is also able to say that ( to paraphrase) " this is a very difficult issue, my personal feelings are this, I will consult with others look at the evidence and come to a decision" This is one of the things she is admired for.

what experience did Blair have? Cameron? Gideon? Clegg?

Nice to see a man of principle.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/aug/16/jeremy-corbyn-floor-three-hour-train-journey-london-newcastle
br />

Alternatively it merely indicates that the shambolic git is too disorganised to have booked a seat...

what experience did Blair have? Cameron? Gideon? Clegg?

The experience they didn't have was of a lifetime of being a failure pushing ideologies which were proven to fail when the Berlin Wall fell.

They did however prove themselves to be smarter than average:

Tony Blair - Degree in Jurisprudence from Oxford
David Cameron - First class honours - PPE from Oxford
...

Jeremy Corbyn - 2 E' at A-level. Might have taken a bus trip round Oxford, dropped out of a course on trade union studies after being an argumentalist with his tutor.

Alternatively it merely indicates that the shambolic git is too disorganised to have booked a seat...

Video was recorded by a film maker travelling with him so he may not be comoletely stupid.

Interesting that Osborne is called Gideon but Brown is never referred to as James.

dragon - Member

Corbyn clearly hasn't changed his opinion on anything in 40 years, despite the evidence that he is wrong on many accounts.

What are you some sort of expert on Corbyn who knows for a fact that he "hasn't changed his opinion on anything in 40 years" ?

Corbyn is well known for saying "I've never met anyone who hasn't been able to teach something", so apart from anything else it's fairly unlikely that he has exactly the same opinions today as he had 40 years ago.

And he has been proved right on quite a number of issues. He was right about Apartheid South Africa - unlike the Tories who claimed that Nelson Mandela was a terrorist. He was right when he claimed that gay men and women had the right to be treated equal - the Tories were wrong about Section 28. He was right about the need for more social/affordable housing - the Tories/New Labour were wrong about leaving housing to the markets. He was right to say that there needed to be a political solution to the problems of Northern Ireland - the Tories/Old Labour were wrong to believe that there could be a military solution. He was right to claim that the banks/finance sectors shouldn't be left unregulated - the Tories/New Labour were wrong to claim that "light touch" regulation was all that was needed. He was right to oppose the privatisation of the railways - the Tories were wrong to claim that privatisation would be cheaper and reduce prices for customers. He was right that the UK shouldn't adopt the Euro - federalist Tories/Labour/LibDens were wrong to claim that we should embrace it. He was right to claim that PFI in the NHS would be a costly mistake - New Labour were wrong to claim that it would provide value for money. He was right to call for a democratic secular Britian - the Tories/New Labour/LibDems were wrong to claim that a feudal House of Lords was democratic and that the head of the Church of England opening parliament was acceptable. He was right to oppose the Iraq War - the Tories/New Labour were wrong to claim that it would bring peace and stability to the region.

OK I'm getting bored now, that lot's from the top of my head, but you get the picture - Corybn has been proved right quite a lot, yet despite the evidence, as you say, you want to pretend that he hasn't been. Let me guess dragon........you vote Tory ?

Interesting that Osborne is called Gideon but Brown is never referred to as James.

Probably because it would be confusing to call Gordon Brown "James".

I call George Osborne "Osborne" and Gordon Brown "Brown". And Jeremy Corbyn "Corbyn". I find that it avoids a lot of confusion.

CFH - Its a cheap dig I agree but Gideon only changed the name he used when he came into politics to sound less posh. Whereas Gordon or James - makes little difference to poshness and IIRC he always went under the name Gordon

He was in Matlock this afternoon, the Derbyshire Dales isn't exactly a hotbed of socialism

Admittedly from Wiki, but....

George Osborne was born in Paddington, London,[1] as Gideon Oliver;[2] he changed his name to George when he was 13. In an interview in July 2005, Osborne said: "It was my small act of rebellion. I never liked it. When I finally told my mother she said, 'Nor do I'. So I decided to be George after my grandfather, who was a war hero. Life was easier as a George; it was a straightforward name."

He was right about Apartheid South Africa - unlike the Tories who claimed that Nelson Mandela was a terrorist.

Funny, when you read what people who were there, like Pik Botha have to say, it seems she had a hell of a lot more impact in ending Apartheid than some beardy **** holding a placard in London

http://www.commonwealthoralhistories.org/2015/interview-with-rf-pik-botha/

(Ps. Nelson was a terrorist, and a Communist too)

tjagain - Member

Whereas Gordon or James - makes little difference to poshness

Rubbish.

Can you imagine [i]"Oh.......Gordon"[/i]

[img] [/img]

"Gordon Bond" lol

Fair enough CFH.

ninfan - Member
He was right about Apartheid South Africa - unlike the Tories who claimed that Nelson Mandela was a terrorist.
Funny, when you read what people who were there, like Pik Botha have to say, it seems she had a hell of a lot more impact in ending Apartheid than some beardy **** holding a placard in London

And your point is? Corbyn did less than somebody else? Is Pik Botha a Tory? or a Lib Dem? I don't get the comparison.

Interestingly Ernie - IN Scotland Gordon would usually be seen as the posher name. Or should I call you Earnest?

And your point is? Corbyn did less than somebody else?

You see, thats the difference between the politics of power, and the politics of protest - in one of the two, you actually get to make a difference.

Its interesting that Ernie also used Section 28 as an example. Who got rid of that I wonder? 😳 You see, once again - by winning an election Labour achieved something that all the protesting by people like Jezza never managed to achieve.

Again, the politics of power rather than the politics of protest 😉

Corbyn clearly hasn't changed his opinion on anything in 40 years, despite the evidence that he is wrong on many accounts.

on the contrary, this man of conviction became a man of compromise within 24 hours of winning the leadership election. He can flip flop with the best of the - dear Nicola included

But getting back to the Great British public who these guys are supposed to represent, tonight's Evening Standards suggests that they have been infiltrated by Blairites B**tards...

Who would make the best leader - Jezza 42%, Smithy 58%
Who would make the best PM - Jezza 38% Smithy 62%
30% would be less likely to vote Labour with Jezza in charge
Voters who voted labour last time - evens
Voters who didnt - Smithy

Honestly, what is wrong with these people.....? What is about old Jezza that they dont get?

Lesson from the Lib Dems - moving from protest to power can be a difficult and dangerous transition. One is easy and without consequence, the other.....

Its interesting that Ernie also used Section 28 as an example. Who got rid of that I wonder?

Brilliant. Ninfan emphasizes the very point I made. Eventually other people accept what Corbyn had been saying all along. I think NI is a better example though, even the Tories eventually accepted the need to talk to terrorists. Or find a "political solution" as they preferred to call it.

Ninfan even emphasized Corbyn's commitment to a Labour government, at least I think that's what he did. Certainly 30 years as a Labour MP shows some commitment.

Eventually other people accept what Corbyn had been saying all along.

I dont recall the Labour Party ever being pro Section 28

the issue is that they couldn't do anything about it until they actually [b]won an election[/b]