Jeremy Corbyn

I thought she was going to cry.

Paxman was (as anticipated) very lenient on her; and she crumbled on every point, resorting to glib vagueties. Paxman crunched on Corbyn and he [i]mostly[/i] came back with specific and definite arguments and policies.

I trust him. He's got my vote.

Is it me or was paxman a bit shit?

fifeandy - Member
Narrow victory for JC on both rounds imo.

jonnyboi - Member
Is it me or was paxman a bit shit?

A neutral one not one with red tinted lenses.

I'm not voting labour. Have only ever done so once in 97.

Though I urge everyone in England and Wales to vote for them.

Is it me or was paxman a bit shit?

Paxman came across as overbearing and highly interruptive with Corbyn, and lenient with May, allowing her far more time to complete her 'answers' in full. So yeah, not his best performance but true to form and his politics.

Not a fan of JC but hate blowhard with a passion JC gets my vote shame I have to vote Lib Dem to keep a nasty tory out of the local seat!

Twunt that stood up at the end to give her a standing ovation quickly sat down when he realised he was the only one 🙂

Tories will win in the end 🙁

The UK is in the sh@t with any of those useless two negotiating for us!

I thought Paxman had Theresa on the ropes when he was talking about her changing her mind on Brexit

But of course, then I remembered:

Before:
[img] [/img]

After:
[img] [/img]

Different haircuts, see, different haircuts...

Paxman's questioning of Corbyn was very odd I thought. Tabloid stuff rather than a serious political debate. Mostly directed towards his character rather than his actual policies. Corbyn came across very well though. He's not the greatest political speaker, but was clearly passionate about his policies and about the welfare of the nation.

May comes across as very negative. We have to do this because of these problems, and these problems....etc... No vision for the future.

She was most comfortable with the empty soundbites- 'No Deal Is Better Than a Bad Deal'

the minute shes forced to deviate from that she gets wobbly

on the plus side the Tories get to own Brexshit, lets just hope she doesnt tank the UK completely!

She's a bloody difficult woman, you know. 😆

I'm gonny start campaigning for a borderwall if youse vote those edjits in again! 😆

I'm in the prison service, my wife's a nurse (currently very poorly & being nursed by NHS staff) & my stepdaughters a teacher. Guess who wer'e not voting for?

Just spoken to a mate of mine who's niece is in hospital after an appendix op was put off cos of no staff to do it on a weekend, well it burst & now she's rather unwell, but I think he's voting for those blue bastards anyway.

[img] [/img]

😆

Did anybody else think that Paxman has lost his touch? The way he kept going over and over the questions searching for a yes or no answer when the questions had clearly been answered.

ninfan - Member

I thought Paxman had Theresa on the ropes when he was talking about her changing her mind on Brexit

But of course, then I remembered:

I thought the whole thing was pretty poor.

Nothing new at all, weak questioning from the audience.

Paxman amusing in a music hall way, but again, we gained little insight.
I though Corbyn came across as more composed, on the whole.
Would have liked to have seen Farron given the same treatment.

[quote=seosamh77 ]She's a bloody difficult woman, you know.
I'm gonny start campaigning for a borderwall if youse vote those edjits in again!

Too late

Quality post from ninfan, bloody good shot sir!

mitsumonkey - Member
Quality post from ninfan, bloody good shot sir!

yeah pure comedy genius 😯

anything rather than talk about Maybots car crash I suppose 😉

scotroutes - Member
Too late

Prove me wrong folks, Corbyn may not be ideal, but come on least the guy has a heart...

[img] [/img]

Andrew Evans' tweet there is fantastic. And that acts of violence lady kicks ass. Let's get her into parliament, she's informed, passionate and compassionate, she's trying to make a difference for other people, and most importantly she's right.

greentricky - Member

Yeh, I have no idea how she thinks she is selling strong and stable

Well that's the scam, isn't it. If you're actually strong and stable, you don't need to say it all the time. Just like if you have a "long term economic plan which is working", you don't need to keep trying to convince everyone.

These marketing tricks are all about the big lie- pick your biggest weakness and tell everyone it's where you're strongest. It's shitebaggery but it's clever, because every time someone debunks it they're also repeating the myth and simple repetition reinforces your lie. If you can't win with honesty, it's one of the more effective lies.

What do you think VAT is?

Not quite. VAT is not a tax on sales it's the collection of tax from the public via business.

Farage in talking sense shocker!

Prove me wrong folks, Corbyn may not be ideal, but come on least the guy has a heart...

This is what I don't understand. Trump for example. What a vile human being. OK, I can understand why some people back his policies. I don't agree with them, but I can see the attraction. But why in God's name would you want someone who shows so little compassion, to run your country? He clearly cares about nothing but his own wealth and power.

The Tories, whilst possibly not on Trump's level, are like some kind of shit employer who care more about their figures than their actual employees. Cold and heartless. Yet people are voting for it.

I would at least like a leader who cares.

Spitting image puppet Paxman out of retirement for a few thousand quid.

Piss off you were never as good as you thought you were.

Well done Corbyn. Win the audience.

Christ what a depressing evening both fairly p*ss poor imo. I know it is easy to moan at politicians, but Corbyn and May are awful. One lives in la la money grows on trees land and the other in no ideas or thoughts land.

Im agreeing with dragon

Corbyns ideas may be very expensive, youd hope in power some of his more extreme stuff would be tempered by the rest of his party

As for May
Honestly as much as I think hes a **** - Johnson would be doing a much better job than May right now
He would be a better hand at negotiating with the EU, May is indeed an ideas vacuum , if thats the best shes got the EU are going to run rings around us
& if shes serious about the no deal bollox (and not just appealing to the hardcore sun/mail drones) ....... 😯

Even on that showing I think she'll still win

if shes serious about the no deal bollox

Eh? Being willing to walk away rather than pressured into a bad deal is pretty much the first rule of negotiation!

I can see now why May didn't want to do a face to face debate.

@butcher, to continue your analogy, when the company has a lot of debt and is losing money, it has to care more about the figures in the short term or it wont have any employees at all in the long term.

None of the parties are putting any emphasis on it, but if we dont get control of the countries finances soon, then the cuts we've seen over the last few years will seem like the good times as we won't have any money at all for public services.

Labour will try to borrow their way out of trouble(which could work, but could also ruin us), lib dems want to increase borrowing and stick their heads in the sand, and conservatives have carefully avoided the topic because the only options we can actually afford are crappy for everyone which is hardly a vote winner.
Folk that vote Conservative aren't all heartless as many would have you beleive, they are just realistic (or perhaps cautious?) about what we can afford.

Eh? Being willing to walk away rather than pressured into a bad deal is pretty much the first rule of negotiation!

ninfan - Member

Eh? Being willing to walk away rather than pressured into a bad deal is pretty much the first rule of negotiation!

would apply if brexit werent a loose, loose situation for us !

This is what I don't understand. Trump for example. What a vile human being. OK, I can understand why some people back his policies. I don't agree with them, but I can see the attraction. But why in God's name would you want someone who shows so little compassion, to run your country? He clearly cares about nothing but his own wealth and power.

The Tories, whilst possibly not on Trump's level, are like some kind of shit employer who care more about their figures than their actual employees. Cold and heartless. Yet people are voting for it.

Thatcher was rather successful in convincing people of a lot of things (pretty much all of it bollocks). One of the things that she was particularly successful with was convincing people that personal greed was a good thing.

She pushed the neo-liberal claim, which was particularly prevalent both sides of the Atlantic at that time, that personal greed was of benefit to the common good - not that she really cared about the common good of course.

It's similar to the trickle-down theory,

Thatcher made people feel good about being greedy. And partly as a consequence of that some people are rather impressed by greedy people. Plus of course they possibly want the opportunity to be greedy themselves.

[img] [/img]

None of the parties are putting any emphasis on it, but if we dont get control of the countries finances soon, then the cuts we've seen over the last few years will seem like the good times as we won't have any money at all for public services

Borrowing for investment is likely to benefit us (infrastructure).

we told them the wealth would trickle down

it has

[img] [/img]

In these difficult times how can the Tories afford tax cuts? Magic money trees?

I was desperate for Paxo to say "shouldn't you have consulted on these things before you wrote the manifesto?"

Ninfan posts a graph showing inflation over 30 years. And it shows there were less people living in Europe on less that 2 dollars a day in 2011 than there was in 1981! Fantastic!!

& the wealth of the top 0.5% has gone up by a similar rate ninfan? Or do I need to turn my phone on its side?

Ninfan posts a graph showing inflation over 30 years - there were fewer people living in Europe on less that 2 dollars a day in 2011 than there was in 1981! Fantastic!!

Ninfan's graph claims that it's in 2005 adjusted dollars. So I think that means it's *not* showing inflation.

There has without doubt been a huge growth in wealth in places like China and India.

@ernie, see the footnote on the graph, its already been scaled for inflation.

Edit: $day is not a particularly useful metric imo, even within Europe money stretches a vastly different amount in different places.

Ninfan posts a graph showing inflation over 30 years.

Read the footnote...

And the richest peoples wealth?

oldnpastit - Member

Ninfan's graph claims that it's in 2005 adjusted dollars. So I think that means it's *not* showing inflation.

So it's not people living on less than 2 dollars a day after all.

How do we know how many in the UK and the US are living on less than 2 dollars a day then?

According to Ninfan that is the measure to calculate whether Reagan/Thatcher trickle-down economics has worked or not.

Failing that how about how many food banks we had 30 years ago?

$day is not a particularly useful metric imo, even within Europe money stretches a vastly different amount in different places.

That will be why the footnote notes its in purchasing power parity...

According to Ninfan that is the measure to calculate whether Reagan Thatcher trickle-down economics has worked or not.

Well, no the metric of whether wealth is tricking down is whether the poor are getting poorer, or the poor are getting richer... Categorically, and by all measures, world poverty is on the decrease - one of capitalisms greatest successes!

unfortunately, this doesn't fit in with your dogmatic and deep-seated political rhetoric, however the evidence in incontrevertible wealth is 'trickling' in to the poorest regions in the world in raging torrents.

Well it certainly is a trickle isn't it !

@ninfan, my point was $2 purchasing power in rural spain is vastly different to london, and yet both are on the same line.
Maybe an assumption on my part, but i doubt the purchasing power has been calculated down to a regional level.

Overall the main thing i see from the graph is we have it very cushy here compared to some parts of the world.

Overall the main thing i see from the graph is we have it very cushy here compared to some parts of the world.

I think too many of us get tied up in the rhetoric and forget just how cushy we have it

sense of proportion:

The torygraph seems to have gone into hyperbollox mode suggesting the BH is over and the Manchester moratorium is finished.

JC doesnt have a chance, we need a few more DM readers to pass on and a few more young folk to care.

ninfan - Member

world poverty is on the decrease

So Thatcher cut taxes to the very wealthy, but increased the tax burden on everyone else (the highest tax burden ever in British history was under Thatcher) to help "world poverty"?

Well she never said that. She should have mentioned it in her manifesto, ie [i]"we will cut taxes to the very wealthy to help end world poverty"[/i].

Or did I miss that Tory election pledge?

Are you [b]still[/b] griping on about Thatcher? FFS, she's been dead for nearly five years man! 😆

Now, we've seen Jezza put forward his best side tonight - but face it, heres someone you could [b]really[/b] vote for:

I'm not sure how accurate opinion polls are these days but the last 18 national opinion polls, every single one, suggest that Labour will get a greater share of the vote than they did under both Gordon Brown and Ed Miliband.

What appears to be saving the Tory's bacon is the collapse of the UKIP vote.

And you're [b]still[/b] going on about Fatcha?

Its like you've got some sort of weird obsession mate - you're starting to sound like Livingstone with his Hitler-tourettes

The zealots, they're flailing.
48k of whinge

Thicky Leaver doesn't know how to get the '%' symbol to work, let alone what is best for the country.

I cannot wait for this election campaign to end; then whichever bunch of incompetents form a government can focus their energies on salvaging whatever they can from the brexit shambles.

Time to get the Irish passport I'm entitled to by birth and buy a house in France.

oh look ninfan has managed to divert the laughter at may with a completely and utterly irrelevant graph! good work fella! 😆

[quote=ninfan ]sense of proportion

I think that would involve not using the scale of world poverty as a reason to reduce US immigration 🙄

Or for that matter not using it to deflect the topic away from how shit the Maybot is when presented with an issue she wasn't programmed to handle.

frankconway - Member

I cannot wait for this election campaign to end; then whichever bunch of incompetents form a government can focus their energies on salvaging whatever they can from the brexit shambles.

You realise that May has no intention of salvaging anything from it? Given the chance she's going to be bloody awkward, insist that no deal is better than a bad deal, and crash us out as hard and as ugly as she possibly can.

While pandering to trump like a poodle.

[b]@Northwind[/b] Spot on. The fact that she is throwing the election is part of a larger plan; Cameron was always anti EU and did a pathetic job of playing against his cohort Johnson. May's job is to take the flak in her own name (there has been precious little mention of the 'Conservative brand' in this election), lose and thereby allow the Labour party to deal with the flying cacky.

There's definitely a sense of this is the general election hot potato that no party really wants to win, for fear of being tainted as the party in government who ballsed up the Brexit deal, affecting their party's rating going forward.

insist that no deal is better than a bad deal,

Eh? You really think that a bad deal is better than no deal? Even if it leaves us worse off?

You don't have any BATNA at all?

This no deal/bad deal thing is bollocks.

A) What are the economic and social consequences of leaving the EU without an agreement in place?

B) What are the economic and social consequences of the 'bad' deal?

Which is worse A or B

Note: option A is still a 'deal'

What odds on a labour/SNP government?

Eh? You really think that a bad deal is better than no deal? Even if it leaves us worse off?

No, but that is not a plausible scenario.

@jonnyboi - zero

"No Deal" = WTO = same trade basis with the EU as US, China, Japan (?), Australia etc

In my very humble opinion all these press headlines about a "Corbyn surge" in the polls are just that, clickbait headlines.

We have done the trickle down / inequality thing many times.

In my very humble opinion all these press headlines about a "Corbyn surge" in the polls are just that, clickbait headlines.

Regardless of your opinion, the polls themselves are showing a consistent narrowing of the gap between labour and the conservatives. Even the conservatives themselves are revising their internal predictions

BBC breakfast news reporting that neither leader came off looking better or worse than the other in last night's Q&A / interview...

jonnyboi - Member
Regardless of your opinion, the polls themselves are showing a consistent narrowing of the gap between labour and the conservatives. Even the conservatives themselves are revising their internal predictions

@jonnyboi,

The best deal for trade with the EU is as is, minimal barriers and involvement in writing the standards.

Anything else means less influence and more red tape.

As a huge proportion of our trade is with our geographic neighbours, it is going to be impossible to replace. Appealing to some mythical past isn't going to help. The UK was rich because it took raw materials from the empire processed them and sold them back to a captive market.

The UK is no powerhouse, it isn't the basket case it was in the '70s, but then that isn't difficult.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/29/opinion/britain-brexit-economy.html?_r=0

Yeah, Martin McGuinness would not have been NI education secretary if it's wasn't for the violence.

MI5 were making serious inroads in the hierarchy in the late 80's and 90's. McGuiness saw which way the wind was blowing and changed tack. His de facto cease fire in Derry City from 1991 was proof of this.

I'm late catching up on the last week or so of the thread but my staunchly Unionist mother-in-law had some good words to say about the man much to my surprise a month ago.
/hijack

Regardless of your opinion, the polls themselves are showing a consistent narrowing of the gap between labour and the conservatives. Even the conservatives themselves are revising their internal predictions

2015:

[img] [/img]

2015:

So Labour majority then????

if it wasn't for education in prison.

A subtle but very important point,

Might even have relevance for the current UK threat

"No deal is better than a bad deal" - is this yet more nonsense peddled by Theresa May and her gang of incompetents? Like "Strong and Stable" ?

BBC breakfast news reporting that neither leader came off looking better or worse than the other in last night's Q&A / interview...

From which you conclude? Something about the interview? Or something about the BBC?

This no deal/bad deal thing is bollocks.

A) What are the economic and social consequences of leaving the EU without an agreement in place?

B) What are the economic and social consequences of the 'bad' deal?

Which is worse A or B

Note: option A is still a 'deal'

Over what timescale? Surely we need to look medium to long term to really see whether Brexit has been successful?

On the current analysis, moving to WTO tariffs will add around £5-10Bn to costs for exporters. Sticking 2 fingers up to the EU in the "divorce" negotiations would save us time and £60-100Bn - enough to provide a complete offset on WTO tariffs for exporters for the first decade.

oldnpastit - Member
"No deal is better than a bad deal" - is this yet more nonsense peddled by Theresa May and her gang of incompetents? Like "Strong and Stable" ?

And once again the supporters will lap it up...