Jeremy Corbyn

Actually , the Tories don't outwardly blame the poor.

What they do is only ever talk about the working population. If you listen to any of their speeches you'll rarely hear them talk about people who cannot work. They might talk about getting people into work but not about the people who cannot e.g. disabled.

They have no concern for people who cannot work (edit: they do in that they want to cut benefits of those who cannot work) - which is why imo i think they're a bunch of *****.

That's just talking to your target audience. They've probably calculated that the poor are never going to vote for them anyway, not worth chasing. The same reason Jc doesn't try and placate those earning over £70k!

Don't forget that if Corbyn was to get in as PM, it would be very unlikely he'd be able to get through many of his more "extreme" policies (even his own party would rebel against some, so I doubt he'd even try). Therefore, we'd get a watered down version of JC politics, which may actually suit many.

The Trump parallels continue!

Are you saying Corbyn is an overly aggressive, sexist, warmongering bigot?

his more "extreme" policies

But we're always being told he either doesn't have any policies or that if he does, they're not extreme.

It's all so confusing, isn't it?

Are you saying Corbyn is an overly aggressive, sexist, warmongering bigot?

Nope, I said there were parallels!

The election's first "car crash" interview. May is runnung a rigged election ... oopps but we voted in favour of that 🙂

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/labour-dawn-butler-election-rigging-system_uk_58f8e32ce4b06b9cb9148e25?c3&utm_hp_ref=uk

The same reason JC doesn't try and placate those earning over £70k!

Labour MPs earn more than £70k and he certainly doesn't try and appeal to most of them.

Putting an avowed Marxist into the position of Shadow Chancellor is pretty extreme.

But we're always being told he either doesn't have any policies or that if he does, they're not extreme.

It's all so confusing, isn't it?

It is a bit. I'm not saying he does have extreme policies, but it may come down to perception.

Nope, I said there were parallels!

Do tell.

many of his more "extreme" policies

Can you list out some of those extreme policies as I have not seen them?

the policy can't work on its own.

I guess Captain Flashheart forgot to mention that.

OOB you understood my point exactly, molgrips you clearly don't.

We're certainly a mixed ability group.

Putting an avowed Marxist into the position of Shadow Chancellor is pretty extreme.

Because...?

outofbreath - Member
OOB you understood my point exactly, molgrips you clearly don't.
We're certainly a mixed ability group.

Why do you feel it necessary to insult people?

Serious question, btw.

Why do you feel it necessary to insult people?

Because he's a troll.

JC doesn't have any extreme policies - opinion polls consistently show that most of the public (including Tory/UKIP voters) actually agree with most of his major policies. It's just that no-one knows what they are because the media never bothers to actually talk about them because they're too busy slating him over vacuous bollocks, and repeatedly calling him 'hard left' when he's nothing of the sort.

We're certainly a mixed ability group.

Why do you feel it necessary to insult people?

It just slipped out. It's inexcusable and I apologize.

So come on then, cards on the table, who ya gonna vote for?

Me, I'm in the most corrupt Labour council in the North West, Cliff Morris has had off with around £5000000 that we know of, his deputies and 30 Co council members are complicit, the elected labour MP's in bolton wards are noted by their silence - it's been going on since before Morris was leader, around 25 years that I can recall. I remember Prescott coming to sort out "irregularities" in Tong Ward Labour club and washing his hands of the mess during Blair's tenure.
Im a member of cross party political groups baying for Morris and Co blood.

I'm a paid up Green member.

I will be voting David Crausby. Lab.

I won't be voting this time.

I've only voted once - when I lived in a marginal and there was a single issue I cared about. Now that was power. In the end there were five votes in it. It didn't go my way but I can't claim my voice wasn't heard.

ulysse - Member

So come on then, cards on the table, who ya gonna vote for?

We've got a pretty good MP and no need to tactical vote so, SNP (there's no getting away from the fact that a good proportion of SNP MPs are absolute donkeys- the party put all the good people into Holyrood and then stuck losers in seats all across scotland in the certainty that they stood no chance, then accidentally got almost all of them elected. But mine is good)

Because...?

We are a capitalist country and he would turn everything to sh-1-t, quite literally. Forget the nhs there would be no taxes to pay for it.

Labour.

I voted for JC as leader, little aware of the shitestorm of infighting and incompetence to come.
Like pretty much everyone else, I wasn't anticipating Brexit/Trump, or the mass spewing forth of hatred and ignorance which followed.
I'd have voted differently, had I thought otherwise.

C'est la guerre.

outofbreath - Member
We're certainly a mixed ability group.
Why do you feel it necessary to insult people?
It just slipped out. It's inexcusable and I apologize.

It wasn't really aimed at you, more just a pointless shout in the dark, really.

For people who supposedly come together to enjoy each others company, we (me included, obviously) certainly have an odd way of showing it sometimes.
🙂

JC doesn't have any extreme policies - opinion polls consistently show that most of the public (including Tory/UKIP voters) actually agree with most of his major policies.

What are they?

What are the specific policy initiatives to changed our "rigged" system?

What are the specific policies to tackle tax avoidance?

What are the detailed education policies?

It's just that no-one knows what they are because the media never bothers to actually talk about them because they're too busy slating him over vacuous bollocks, and repeatedly calling him 'hard left' when he's nothing of the sort

I listened to the mainstream media ask his MP put up for interview what the policies were repeatedly, the only one put forward was something vague about publishing tax returns

I voted for JC as leader, little aware of the shitestorm of infighting and incompetence to come.

To be fair the talent pool that stepped up wasn't deep and all the candidates were deeply flawed and tainted with the past. I couldn't suggest one who would have labour in a position to fight for a victory in June. It would just be a better organised rearguard action

And as you survey the scene, has that talent pool improved any?

Having said that, May is now leader of the Conservative Party and JC is a towering intellect compared to her!

a towering intellect compared to her!

2 E grades at A level. Towering.......

How am I voting?

I have a sitting Tory MP who is an utter * of the highest order. A misogynistic, homophobic racist. [url= https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2015/oct/30/tory-mps-filibuster-blocks-bill-to-give-carers-free-hospital-parking ]Here's one of his finer moments[/url]. [url= https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/24/tory-mp-90-minute-attempt-to-talk-out-domestic-violence-bill ]Then there's this[/url]. A total *! Typical Tory. He also forgets where his constituency is other than for the odd photo opportunity, between elections.

Oh.... I tell a lie.... he always turns up to vote through huge budget cuts to our/his local council

The Labour candidate, who lost by 300 votes last time is a thoroughly decent bloke. Him and his wife both run successful local businesses (Tory-lite Blairite scum eh?). So you can guess they're opinion on Corbyn.

So despite the fact that I despise Corbyn, and his useless 6th form politics, and the fact that he's busy destroying the Labour Party, I'm voting Labour to try and get rid of the utter * who is presently my elected representative.

And the old adage always applies: anyone but the *ing Tories!

CaptainFlashheart - Member
2 E grades at A level. Towering.......

Really?

And as you survey the scene, has that talent pool improved any?

Yes, but they were hoping to have the option in 2019 prior to a 2020 election

How good they will be in reality is a different question

It's a starting point as an indicator of intellect.

To suggest that Jezza's a towering intellect is rather a stretch.

I think it's been an interesting insight into democracy and the baser aspects of human nature.
🙂

I've lost an awful lot of respect for people in the PLP, the media and elsewhere over this.
I'm amazed that the ignorance, hate and bigotry evident in the referendum and the US election have been so readily embraced by all aspects of our society, almost with glee.

We really do get the politicians we deserve.

So despite the fact that I despise Corbyn, and his useless 6th form politics, and the fact that he's busy destroying the Labour Party, I'm voting Labour to try and get rid of the utter **** who is presently my elected representative

This is why I think Labour will do better than expected.

There will be plenty of people who vote Labour in spite of Corbyn for all kinds of reasons.

Unless it becomes all about the EU in which case remainers will vote liberal and leavers will vote Cons regardless and Labour won't get a look in.

Are you seriously expecting me to believe that your measure of intelligence for two senior citizens is the grades they received at school?
Really?

I believe Mrs May got a lowly second in Geography from Oxford (St Hugh’s College)

Of course, I think we could probably say that her 20 years going from the Bank of England and Head of European Affairs at the Association for Payment Clearing Services before becoming an MP may have more relevance to her suitability as PM than what she studied at uni.

Wonder how Jezza's career measures up?

We are a capitalist country and he would turn everything to sh-1-t, quite literally. Forget the nhs there would be no taxes to pay for it.

Dad Blair cripple the country with his 14 years of economic growth up until the 2008 GLOBAL crash?
Were Brown and Darling turning the tide from the global crash by using economic stimulus, government spending and tax cuts up until 2010?

Followed by Osborn's triple dip recession- it felt more like a depression up North...
Did Osbornomics lose the UK it's Moody's AAA economic rating?

Followed by Osborn's triple dip recession-

#Fakenews

Oooh, nearly a triple dip, saved by 0.3 increase in GDP, ill bet the treasury were clicking their heels as they all drank champagne that day eh?
#Tory closed ideology echo chamber #Bought MsM

Well over the years I have voted Tory, Green, Plaid & Lib Dem, so I guess it is time to give Labour a chance to prove themselves. I was out of the country during the Blair years or perhaps I would have voted for him. What we really need is a credible Social Democratic party. Leave Labour to the Lefties, the Tories to the Right wingers and give the rest of us something meaningful to vote for that isn't the Liberals with all their historical baggage. Or give us PR and see what happens 🙂

Oooh, nearly a triple dip, saved by 0.3 increase in GDP, ill bet the treasury were clicking their heels as they all drank champagne that day eh?

No - there wasn't even a double dip once the ONS revised the GDP up for Q1 2012

Welshfarmer, Thats why im normally a Green, but i cant let my ideology get in the way of stopping the most destructive party in history from carrying on their demolition of the UK, enriching the rich at the expense of the poor, starving our most vulnerable, working people defendant on charity, and most importantly murdering so far 6000 to 8000 disabled and unemployed.

welshfarmer - couldn't agree more. I don't want to be faced with the option of John Redwood style, right wing, foaming-at-the-mouth nut jobs, or 70's style left-wing, Wolfe Smith fruitcakes, both as detatched from reality as each other, but it appears that that's my options.

Something in the middle - for sane people to vote for - would be nice, wouldn't it?

Are you seriously expecting me to believe that your measure of intelligence for two senior citizens is the grades they received at school?

First you have to ask yourself, Are you actually expecting CFH to offer anything of substance to this thread?

Voting Libdem. Don't want to, they helped the instigator of this mess gain power in 2010, but needs must.

I hope this is more than a wake up call for the need for moderates to get into politics as their failure to turn up coupled with the undemocratic FPTP system has allowed extremist elements to take over this country.

It getting way past the time for moderates to keep expecting that a moderate position in Uk politics will just fall into place, just look at the last thirty or so years to see how that worked out, Its time to toughen up the stance and MAKE it right.

the need for moderates to get into politics

They'd better hurry up. Election soon. I hope they can save us from all these extremists.

Something in the middle - for sane people to vote for - would be nice, wouldn't it?

Something in the middle - for sane people to vote for - would be nice, wouldn't it?

Some sort of social, democratic party?

Its time to toughen up the stance and MAKE it right.

Thought you wanted to make it middle, not right? 😉

I hope this is more than a wake up call for the need for moderates to get into politics as their failure to turn up coupled with the undemocratic FPTP system has allowed extremist elements to take over this country.

This.

Thought you wanted to make it middle, not right?

[quote=El-bent ]
First you have to ask yourself, Are you actually expecting CFH to offer anything of substance to this thread?
My bad 😳

We are a capitalist country and he would turn everything to sh-1-t, quite literally. Forget the nhs there would be no taxes to pay for it.

So. Just the usual illogical nonsense then. Rather him than someone moonlighting for Big Finance.

@jamba - yep, that was a real car crash interview by dawn butler; she wasn't even given a hard time. In truth, the fact that she couldn't answer soft questions was embarassing.
She introduced jezza at his campaign launch which might suggest he has some confidence in her.
She parroted that the 'system is rigged' but failed to provide a single example.
When asked to articulate some aspects of labour's economic policy she talked in sweeping generalisations and then stated that Costa (as in coffee) are tax evaders.
Costa is not an independent business - it's part of Whitbread.
Eddie Mair suggested she might not have the right coffee business; her response.....I might be confused.
What a dopey clown.
Time for her to be re-educated.
Doesn't convey a sense of confidence.
Media will be queuing to interview her for some more enlightenment; at same time jezza's minders will do everything to gag her.
One day in and the fun has started 😆

Nope, I said there were parallels!

Do tell.

Trump and JC are both populist and iconoclastic. Setting yourself against the media and the establishment. Both disliked by the politicians of their own party and both written off in the early stages. And I was responding specifically to the idea that his more eye-catching policies wouldn't survive the cold shower of political reality if elected!

"Trump and JC are both populist and iconoclastic. Setting yourself against the media and the establishment. Both disliked by the politicians of their own party and both written off in the early stages."

Yup, they're both part of the same wave of public distrust of the establishment. Identical economy policy.

I'm struggling to think of two more similar Politicians.

We've done the Trump/Corbyn similarities before in this thread.

Key difference being what they are basing their spiel on.
Corybn is basing on truth (rich running the country for themselves, media doing a lot more than just reporting etc,)
Trump is basing on prejudice and lies (mexicans, muslims, climate change etc,.)

I'm struggling to think of two more similar Politicians.

Whilst their MO to getting to power may have some similarities [ as atragic explained]- lets be honest its an attempt to be popular so you could draw parallels between anyone standing anywhere for election- However they stand for completely different things and they are not even remotely alike.

Jesus this debate is of a poor standard - no offence atragic your point was rational and reasonable but anyone struggling to think of politicians more similar than trump and corbyn should be banned from any political debate and from voting.

The two posts above sum up what I was going to say. Drawing parallels between Trump and Corbyn is incredibly lazy headline writing designed to spread baseless fear and draw attention away from the issues at hand.

I'm no Corbyn supporter but spreading lies is very much the MO of someone with little to say, and is a direct parallel with Trump.

It was a trolling statement by what appears to me to be STW's most tedious troll at the moment, which is quite an achievement. I'm sure his mother is very proud.

big_n_daft - well here's some of his economic policies. But no-one gives a shit because Corbyn doesn't do his tie up properly and isn't a Neo-liberal and is therefore insane.

https://www.ft.com/content/fe98b944-83ea-11e6-a29c-6e7d9515ad15

How about two people on the same side of the political spectrum with the same policies,

Policy: They're both basing their campaign on serious Keynesian stimulus.

However they stand for completely different things

What they stand for: They both stand for being the voice of the forgotten people neglected by the establishment.

Aye if we just overlook the fact they are from opposite ends of the political spectrum and one is a low tax [ for the rich]firebrand right wing racist supported by the alt right and the other is a Loony left wing terrorist sympathising renationalising high taxer [ supported by the SWP] than yes you make good points about just how alike they are 🙄

Adds troll to list of those to be ignored

outofbreath - Member

Identical economy policy.

Yeah? No.

So Corbyn is trying to set himself as the anti establishment candidate, hated by the msm etc can he pull off a trump and defy the pollsters ??

Will we hear chants of 'lock her up' at his rallies when he brings up election fraud ? 😉

Of course he's not planning to build a wall to keep the immigrants out, wants to massively increase stàte spending on socialist healthcare, is going to be about Union bosses rather than Goldman Sachs execs and wants nuclear disarmament rather than escalation.

So while some similarities may be there it's just lazy saying they are the same

than yes you make good points about just how alike they are

...and similarities is exactly what mikey74 was asking for.

If he'd asked for differences I'm sure we could all provide some, but he didn't.

STW's most tedious troll

I apologize, trolling wasn't my intention. I'll stop posting for a while to give you a break.

big_n_daft - well here's some of his economic policies. But no-one gives a shit because Corbyn doesn't do his tie up properly and isn't a Neo-liberal and is therefore insane.

https://www.ft.com/content/fe98b944-83ea-11e6-a29c-6e7d9515ad15

Behind a paywall, i must be left wing if I'm too cheap to pay for my news!!!

Care to cut and paste for the socialists?

Also how would these persist in the world of a "rolling manifesto" as set out by his spokesman on Newsnight?

Some sort of social, democratic party?

The kind that Polly Toynbee would join, sign the Limehouse Declaration and then stand as a a prospective MP for?

from the ft for bigndaft
complete with anti scrounger warning

High quality global journalism requires investment. Please share this article with others using the link below, do not cut & paste the article. See our T&Cs and Copyright Policy for more detail. Email ftsales.support@ft.com to buy additional rights.
> https://www.ft.com/content/fe98b944-83ea-11e6-a29c-6e7d9515ad15
/p>

Key points
? “No more Philip Greens”: John McDonnell promised new laws to stop a repeat of the BHS scandal, including a ban on companies taking on excessive debt to pay out dividends
? £10 minimum wage: George Osborne promised a £9 hourly “living wage” by 2020; McDonnell is promising a “real living wage” of at least £10 an hour
? Wealth taxes: McDonnell wants to shift the tax burden from income to wealth. Labour promised a mansion tax at the last election
? £250bn infrastructure plan: McDonnell wants to take advantage of low interest rates to borrow to invest. Jeremy Corbyn speaks of a £500bn infrastructure plan, once private funding taken into account

...and similarities is exactly what mikey74 was asking for.

They're both men, they both have hair (kinda), they're both from western countries, they both went to school - eerie isn't it.

outofbreath you troll constantly - do you [i]really[/i] not realise you're doing it? Even your username sounds trolly - bet you used to have a different one.

Maybe Crbyn is just like Trump

he could sell memberships to his allotment for [url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/mar-a-lago-donald-trump-florida-weekends-membership-members-list-cost-club-a7621051.html ]£200000 dollars and you could have secret meetings and influence him[/url]

that was a real car crash interview by dawn butler

Understatement. That was possibly the single worst interview I've had the "pleasure" of listening to. Radio 4's PM is a key political radio show, so why roll out an MP to be interviewed who has neither the skills nor knowledge to negotiate relatively tame questioning. Do Labour even realise how damaging this buffoonery is to hopes of swaying undecided electorate? I tell you; it sways them the wrong way.

No more Philip Greens”: John McDonnell promised new laws to stop a repeat of the BHS scandal, including a ban on companies taking on excessive debt to pay out dividends

? £10 minimum wage: George Osborne promised a £9 hourly “living wage” by 2020; McDonnell is promising a “real living wage” of at least £10 an hour

? Wealth taxes: McDonnell wants to shift the tax burden from income to wealth. Labour promised a mansion tax at the last election

? £250bn infrastructure plan: McDonnell wants to take advantage of low interest rates to borrow to invest. Jeremy Corbyn speaks of a £500bn infrastructure plan, once private funding taken into account

Is the private money via PFI's? The Chinese? The Russians?

I was making the point that politicians trying to tap into the populist wave of anti-establishment sentiment is interesting. I understand it's quite a well-established phenomenon after a financial crash. I wasn't trying to have a go at JC by suggesting he's the same as Trump.

b n d i guess you really shouldve attended his speech 😉

theres more detail in there, eg dates and sources of tax revenue

its about as detailed as the tories plan at the moment, well [url= https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/21/theresa-may-wants-conservative-mps-to-help-write-manifesto ]the ideas vaccuum that is Maybot anyway[/url]

- Claims there's no detail because it's not widely reported and couldn't be bothered to look for it
- Gets detail
- Says it's not detailed enough
- Can't be bothered to look up the more detailed plans which are also out there but hard to find because the MSM isn't interested

But you can find a million and one articles about his haircut, his ties, and whether or not he's singing at some public event or other.

And yet it's all Corbyn's fault that no-one knows what his policies are. Hmmm....

And yet it's all Corbyn's fault that no-one knows what his policies are. Hmmm....

It's extremely important as a leader to make sure your team understand where you're going and how you want to get there. Referring once more to the car crash Dawn Butler interview on PM last night, she failed to talk about policies despite being asked - politely - several times. If your team can't articulate policies effectively, you have to have a bit of a look at your leadership. A completely wasted opportunity, and I hope for Labour's sake it is not as damaging to them as it felt whilst I was [s]cringing[/s] listening to it.

It's extremely important as a leader to sure your team understand where you're going and how you want to get there. Referring once more to the car crash Dawn Butler interview on PM last night, she failed to talk about policies despite being asked - politely - several times. If your team can't articulate policies effectively, you have to have a bit of a look at your leadership. A completely wasted opportunity, and I hope for Labour's sake it is not as damaging to them as it felt whilst I was cringing listening to it.

problem with 'snap' elections

no ones got a manifesto ready, not even the Tories

@kimbers - Grum is saying the policies are there for all to see in the public domain.

see I said Corbyn would do well, if he keeps of Brexit and hammers home the NHS and Tax dodging issues he'll do well.

well its not hard to figure out

labour
raise minimum wage, go after tax dodgers, tax rich more, scarp 0hours, invest in infrastructure & NHS, renationalise railways

same as you can figure out tory one
close libraries, demoralise and run down NHS ready for full privatisation, tax breaks for the rich, cut benefits, force people to use food banks, usual pledge to cut immigration

both with the usual helpings of stuff pensioners like to hear

I fully endorse Corb's policies. However he's really buggering up the communication and leadership part of it, sadly.

- Can't be bothered to look up the more detailed plans which are also out there but hard to find because the MSM isn't interested

They were interested last night, they kept asking for them, and again and again

@kimbers - Grum is saying the policies are there for all to see in the public domain.

He can link to a paywall article in the FT which sets out the FT analysis but not to anything else

Or is that because it is a "rolling manifesto" ?

He can link to a paywall article in the FT which sets out the FT analysis but not to anything else

Ah so it's Corbyn/McDonnell's fault that the media doesn't bother to report major policy announcements they make?

Ah so it's Corbyn/McDonnell's fault that the media doesn't bother to report major policy announcements they make?

Can you list the ones not reported by the media please, there must be a significant number so it should be easy

Can you list the ones not reported by the media please, there must be a significant number so it should be easy

Well there's that one I linked to that you claimed didn't exist for starters.