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And tell me, how successful was Nigel, or his party, at the last general election?
100pc successful.
Their sole objective was to trigger a referendum. They spooked one of the main parties into offering a referendum and it even went their way.
There can't be many politicians and parties in history who achieved *everything* they wanted.
I cannot believe you accused them of thinking 😉I've no idea how this is all going to end but I'm sure it'll be a lot different to what you think.
Farage proves it
hugely popular policy (see referendum result) but utterly unelectable
go figure 😉
Maybe like Farage Corbyn's objective is to just get the Tories to implement his key policies, no need to bet elected or do anything so Bourgeoise as being PM
nah the referendum just proves that most MPs (and pollsters) dont understand the electorate
JC will win the Leadership tomorrow. He'll cobble together a shadow cabinet and ministers of 3rd rate performers. He'll deselect [s]moderate[/s]right wing MPs who should really be tories and replace them with [s]ideologically sound [/s]candidates more at home in a left-of-centre workers' party. He'll pack the NEC with [s]ideologically sound[/s] supporters more at home in a left-of-centre workers' party. He'll lose narrowly in 2020 having shifted the political narrative hugely back towards the centre and hand over the reins to a [s]ideologically sound MP[/s] better salesman/woman in a safe Labour seat from his 'new intake'. The [s]Labour[/s] Tory party will just fizzle out over a few years, having failed to deliver on a referendum result only a minority of their own party wanted.
That's how else it could work out. Unless you want to keep playing the man, rather than the ball, and ensure your own prediction becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy
@zokes from all the info I have seen the majority of Conservative voters supported Brexit and a bit more than half the Tory MPs campaigned for Brexit.
@dazh I'd be delighted to see Corbyn lead Labour into a 2020 General Election. That would fulfil the objective I would have written into the £3 form had I gone ahead with that;
"I wish to give the UK electorate the chance to vote on a firmly left wing manifesto"
@zokes from all the info I have seen the majority of Conservative voters supported Brexit and a bit more than half the Tory MPs campaigned for Brexit.
I didn't say voters, I said members (but meant parliamentary members)
Ok, true in both cases though just less clear cut for MPs. I am certain if the PM had campaigned Leave Tory MPs would have been 90/10 Leave.
The problem is that his ideas of helping people sound worthy, but are largely unworkable, uncosted, and therefore unachievable
That's what the working out part is about. When I go to a client, I don't swan in and pretend to know everything. What I do have is the ability to find a solution.
Why do we expect the former behaviour from politicians? Madness.
Maybe if he hadn't spent all his time having fighting people who wanted him to resign despite being elected he'd have been able to work on policy. The PLP really have ****ed this up.
When I go to a client, I don't swan in and pretend to know everything.
Did you miss day one of consultant school?
If you'd been working for the same client for over 30 years I'd expect you to know pretty much all the answers.
TBH even when I work with a new client i'd be expecting to have a blooming good understanding of things after a month.
That's what the working out part is about. When I go to a client, I don't swan in and pretend to know everything. What I do have is the ability to find a solution.
And if the clients senior management team says that the solution you've proposed is proper bobbins and will lose them loads of customers, do you:
a) listen to their concerns, try to allay them, reconsider your solution and try to present something that is acceptable
b) try and get the client to sack their entire senior management team and replace them with your mates from down the pub?
...and to reassure the client that you're not a bit of a leftie you say "I am a Marxist".
I would expect a company's boss to know all about their product and what it offers etc.
There may be an option c) above. That being your company folds as you cannot got enough people to buy your product, no matter how good it is as you just dont have the ability to sell it.
What if most of that client's potential customers also think the solution you've proposed is proper bobbins?
Having a 'great' product you can't sell pretty much sums up nationalised industries, British Steel badly suffered from this problem, so maybe it that is a better anology than you realised.
"Someone's been sitting in my chair," growled the Papa bear...
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-corbyn-ram-packed-virgin-8901399
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/23/andy-burnham-jeremy-corbyns-labour-leadership-call-for-unity ]Andy Burnham's going off script. Hasn't he read the memo about 6th form trots and placard waving revolutionaries?[/url]
Andy Burnham saying MPs should serve in the Shadow Cabinet even though he's "doing a runner" ? Opportunistic
[quote=big_n_daft said> http://philwoodfordsseachange.blogspot.co.uk
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Red tory innit.
And binners' faith school chum - keeping everyone sweet for his Manchester mayoral ambitions.
Andy Burnham has served under Corbyn from beginning to now, and managed to not complain to the media, resign on telly etc. Asking others to do the same is hardly opportunistic is it? Its the opposite really.
My point was he is stepping away from serving in Shadow Cabinet yet asking others to do the same.
Just when you don't need it Ken Livingstone pops up to make a "personal film" for BBC's This Week endorsing Corbyn and a deselection.process
[url= http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37452214 ]BBC[/url]
allthepies - Member
big_n_daft said »> http://philwoodfordsseachange.blogspot.co.uk
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Red tory innit.
Thanks for that incisive, considered and well researched analysis.
Did you actually read the blog or did you just immediately turn into a jerking knee at the sight of his name?
big_n_daft - Member
http://philwoodfordsseachange.blogspot.co.uk
Splitter!
(Am I allowed to use that when referring to critics of Corbyn, or is that against the rules?)
Also:
The people who support the veteran MP for Islington North are either cynical ultra-leftists who have no interest in Labour’s representation in Parliament or they are people sanctimoniously wedded to the idea that permanent opposition is a price worth paying for a range of abstract principles
Well, uh, ix-nay on the condescension-ay there, Chet.
Andy Burnham has served under Corbyn from beginning to now, and managed to not complain to the media, resign on telly etc. Asking others to do the same is hardly opportunistic is it? Its the opposite really.
This. He's one of the few who hasn't (publicly) taken sides in all this. Just kept this head down. You could say that in doing so, and also engineering his (probably temporary) absence from Westminster while this whole sorry mess plays itself out, he's the only one in the Party presently worthy of the title 'politician'. He's been a lot shrewder and more politically savvy than anyone else. Playing a longer game.
He'll walk the Mayoral election. And when he does I expect he'll probably be a greater PITA to the Tory's than the shambolic Westminster Labour front bench. Its also worth noting that he wasn't the preferred mayoral candidate for Jezza and his union chums. The utterly corrupt and useless Tony Lloyd was.
Andy was just on Radio 4 this morning. He still wasn't taking sides. As a testament to his scouse roots, it seems like he was just telling everyone to...
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😀
🙂 Keep Calm and Carry On is a decent enough slogan if you are heading in the right direction.
Not good reading in the Indy, some poll results on Corbyn specific questions.
Worryingly for Labour, just 22 per cent of working-class people thought Mr Corbyn “in touch with voters”, while 42 per cent said he is “out of touch” and 36 per cent did not know.Asked if people thought him “competent” or “incompetent”, working-class voters again gave an unsettling response. More than a third, 36 per cent, went for incompetent, only 26 per cent went for competent and 38 per cent did not know. That compared with 32 per cent of ABC1 middle-class voters who were prepared to say the Labour leader was “competent”.
[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-leadership-results-live-jeremy-corbyn-owen-smith-poll-incompetent-working-class-voters-a7326486.html ]Indy: Corby not seen as competent by the working class[/url]
Now the people who intend to vote for him think he's competant, those are the people in the room on Ken Loach's film
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Type 'how to leave' into Google and see what the auto complete suggestion is 😯 😆
Type 'how to leave' into Google and see what the auto complete suggestion is
try "how to j" 😀
Google autocomplete uses your search history as an input
Only if their is some, otherwise it uses everyone else's.
the eton mafia are taking this very very seriously..
they must be spending a small fortune on manning the digital dissemination campaign
dunno if it's funny or sad or a bit sinister that they've even gone to the trouble of boosting google searches and whatnot... S'all very spychological innit!!
Forget the sicilians... our insidious lot are criminal geniuses!!
they must be very worried at the moment though
I just hope that we get to see them taken down in our lifetime
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/24/i-fought-labour-hard-left-1980s-now-back-corbyn-neil-kinnock-same-hostility ]Someone who actually gets it.[/url]
He's been a lot shrewder and more politically savvy than anyone else. Playing a longer game.
Completely agree. I'm sure Burnham has a long term plan which may involve him standing again in future. Whether he's being politically savvy or genuinely putting the party first, he's been a model of how to act and behave behind a leader you disagree with and don't instinctively support. I can only hope some of his senior colleagues follow his example. I'm pretty sure that if they do, the polls will turn around and the commentary of failure might change into one of 'what if?'.
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/23/labour-party-two-choices-marketing-movement-building ]Someone else who gets it[/url]
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Champagne corks popping in tory hq! 😆
Sneer, sneer, sneer.
But Corbyn increases majority. Waiting for the breakdown of votes.
some poll results on Corbyn specific questions.
Since that's the message that has been relentlessly pumped out by every media organisation from Murdoch to the state media outlet it would be astonishing if the answers were different.
Whether he's being politically savvy or genuinely putting the party first, he's been a model of how to act and behave behind a leader you disagree with and don't instinctively support. I can only hope some of his senior colleagues follow his example.
Agreed its now down to the PLP to step up as he just increased his mandate and they really do need to respect this or realise they are out of kilter with the party
WHether they can win is a debatable point
There is no debate about whether they will perform better with their support /participation than a continuation of this
They really will destroy the party if they continue to ignore it
As for breakdown I imagine he won them all again except MP's with an increased majority
Very good interview with Ken Loach on R4. Re Labour he said recent Labour MP's had completely forgotten what Labour is supposed to be about (supporting the oppressed working class)....
Imo...the tide is turning...people have had enough of being dicked over by the most powerful... JC is not the answer, but finally someone in government has a voice that challenges the neo liberal order...
Todays a good day...
yunki - Member
the eton mafia are taking this very very seriously..
Seriously?
Last I looked, the Head Girl had given them all the boot.
Do keep up.
Lifer - Member
Sneer, sneer, sneer.But Corbyn increases majority.
A fine example of "La la la la I'm not listening" politics.
Majority of what?
Not the electorate...
Majority of what?
Not the electorate...
No. As per jamba, the way to do that is to blame foreigners, bring back hanging and memorise the names of light entertainers.
Well he could only increase it amongst those who voted and he did
I'm not on about the dippit shites that we have to endure on the telly and in the papers woppit
they're just the public face of the whole scam... the PR exercise
red ones blue ones, bottom rung scapegoats, footsoldiers
it's the capo's and the consiglieres pulling the strings that get all fidgety when they see the sort of shake-up that corbyn's labour would produce
Isn't it amazing how the rhetoric of the "Left" matches almost exactly the rhetoric of the "Right"?
(Neo) Liberal elites, biased press, conspiracies against, dubious organisations as friends...
Tweedledum and Tweedledee.
Meanwhile, the electorate just goes for what looks like the most sensible bunch of politicians who look like they're at least half capable of running stuff and keeping the ship afloat for the benefit of the nation as a whole, not any "class" in particular.
Hasn't the old boy done well!
Congrats Jezza - some achievement
Seems an appropriate time to revisit my OP
teamhurtmore - Member
So by latest accounts, Jezza is doing a pretty good job and may be appointed our next leader of the opposition. Well done to him.So what will the next name be
New, new labour
New, old labour
Retro labour
Hard labourOk not the last one but.....
POSTED 1 YEAR AGO #
it's the capo's and the consiglieres pulling the strings that get all fidgety when they see the sort of shake-up that corbyn's labour would produce
Capos? Consiglieres?
Oh, you mean the leaders and organisers and contributors of other parties than Labour under JeremyJeremy. Which of course doesn't have any of these.
Grow up.
I think you'll find the other "Capos" are too busy laughing their faces off to be "fidgety" about the Toytown Chavez Fanclub on the opposite benches.
ooooh
you're so masterful when you've got your knickers in a twist woppit 🙂
Some people are clearly rattled.... 😀
170 Labour mps?
Today we celebrate, but tomorrow we continue the long journey towards a fairer, more equal and more prosperous future for all.
😀
Breakdown of votes would suggest that the fewer of 'cuckoos' like him than last time, but he is now even more popular amongst real party members. I am genuinely suprised about this.
A microcosm of this would be my local Labour Party: most but not quite all of our labour councillors backed Smith yet locally the support for Corbyn amongst the regular members and trade unions is very high: no local breakdown yet but I expect our local vote if it is measurable will be well over 61.8%
Today we celebrate, but tomorrow we continue the long journey towards a fairer, more equal and more prosperous future for all.
Theresa May?
Champagne corks popping in tory hq!
Get In. 🙂 🙂
Well I'll certainly be raising a glass tonight in celebration, still on the Rose though as the weather is nice and it's cheap. Off now to the Arabic Street Party in our neighbourhood in a joyful mood.
170 Labour mps?
That was my estimate 12 months ago, I have since revised down to 150 and now 125 post boundary changes.
Today we celebrate, but tomorrow we continue the long journey towards a fairer, more equal [s]and more prosperous[/s] future for all.
Under Corbyn everyone will be poorer but it will be a more equal society when anyone with a good business idea sets up elsewhere and anyone with money just moves it offshore or simply leaves.
Can't believe you don't follow Corbyn on Facebook, 5th. 😛 (For that is where it's lifted from).
when anyone with a good business idea sets up elsewhere and anyone with money just moves it offshore or simply leaves
a sort of weeding out of the greedy and the self centred?
a deep cleanse of the moral fibre of British society?
fewer self important tossers clagging up the trails?
sounds like a plan! 🙂
Forgive me for i have sinned. Help me back to the path to the right. I too want to be a part of the party that will make me rich at the expense of the poorer in society. I don't mind the increase in suicides, the closing of bus services in rural areas that affect health and wellbeing of older people, the closing of libraries and other spaces for education...because I will be richer than you and I am truly worth it....please help me not care aout other members of society. .
[url=www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket]Inconvenient statistics.[/url]
a sort of weeding out of the greedy and the self centred?
No, a weeding out of those who not only pay their own way, but pay for many households that don't pay their own way.
It does seem to be a good idea to get rid of wealth-generating tax payers, doesn't it ?
when anyone with a good business idea sets up elsewhere and anyone with money just moves it offshore or simply leaves.
It sounds like you're confusing Capitalism, not Socialism with that descriptive?
It's been the standard model since Thatcherism
you're still blaming a tiny handful of poor folk for society's ills cranberry?
are you really that gullible?
the taxpayers are subsidising tesco's low wages mate... you think that's ok?
get a ****ing grip you poor sod
It does seem to be a good idea to get rid of wealth-generating tax payers, doesn't it ?
A better way would be zhc, wage repression and workfare, all New Labour babies, but the baton has certainly been taken and ran with since 2010
Tories should be worried, there is now a true alternative 🙂
The shouty, sixth form money-tree party?
a sort of weeding out of the greedy and the self centred?
a deep cleanse of the moral fibre of British society?fewer self important tossers clagging up the trails?
sounds like a plan!
< I point out where the money comes from >
then:
you're still blaming a tiny handful of poor folk for society's ills cranberry?
Did that make sense in your own head ?
The shouty, sixth form money-tree party?
Even they are preferable to the "Increase the defecit tripplefold with a double dip recession and lose the country its AAA finance rating while reducing the income tax take" party?
Did that make sense in your own head ?
It make sense in anyone other than an economically illiterate right wingers head.
"Increase the defecit tripplefold"
Tories overspending? I'd agree, but I don't think many would.
Did that make sense in your own head ?
By all means disagree with his point or sentiment but to pretend you are to thick to understand it a strange way of attacking his point and defending your own
the taxpayers are subsidising tesco's low wages mate... you think that's ok?
Tax credits for the lower paid (Labour invention) subsidised low Tesco wages. The Living Wage (Tory) started to remove that subsidy. Not sure if I think that's OK or not.
bainbrge - MemberTax credits for the lower paid (Labour invention) subsidised low Tesco wages. The Living Wage (Tory) started to remove that subsidy
The "national living wage" isn't a tory invention, it's a cynical rebranding of the minimum wage (brought in by Labour) to a level below the [i]actual[/i] living wage.
The increases in minimum wage it brought were in many cases insufficient to offset the changes to the wftc that accompanied it. It was a pretty simple scam founded entirely on the basis that running numbers is more complicated than headlines. As was the declaration that cuts had been cancelled, which turned out to be a flat out lie when the income disregard was halved less than 6 months later.
http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/uk_national_deficit_analysis
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Looks like the increase trend was around 2009, the aftermath of the global crash
Will I see another Labour government in my lifetime?
I can't see it happen. Oh, don't get me wrong, I would really wish not to have another Tory majority for 18+ years like I still remember having from my teenage years to my mid thirties, but it is now much probable. Gutted
when anyone with a good business idea sets up elsewhere and anyone with money just moves it offshore or simply leaves.
Which Labour policy would make that happen?
Brexit maybe 🙂
with a double dip recession
???
reducing the income tax take
???
Even they are preferable to the "Increase the defecit tripplefold ...
Hang on, aren't they the austerity party?
My point of view is that at this time in the election cycle is the perfect time for this. If the PLP and Corbyn sort it out now then fine...if not then as has been said the labour party is a spent force.