Jeremy Corbyn

Stopping personal attacks is a good thing.

Actually it isn't, money wasn't the reason iirc.

Never mind....you just carry on

Guardian and BBC are alleging that Corbyn and his team deliberately sabotaged the Remain campaign.

Some of us on here made the same observation a while ago. In a democracy you get what you vote for and this is what the Labour Party voted for

The Guardian and BBC are just making statements of the obvious. In the Guardian's case they want to see a Labour government and its been clear to many of us for a very long time that Corbyn guarantees a diminshed Labour party in electoral terms

Being reported that upton 150 Labour MPs will vote "no confidemce" I really wonder how bad those MPs who put Corbyn on the ballot must be feeling now

The BBC and the Guardian are certainly singing to the Jamby choir who obvs cares deeply about the labour party and would see them as credible were it any other leader

the guardian has flip flopped about on labour support of late and chose the lib dems in 2010 and labour in the last GE. I suspect they will go back to the centre ground with the lib dems again unless the labour party elect a lib dem as leader or a very centrist leader.

Cant help yourself eh THM?

Actually it isn't, money wasn't the reason [b]he gave[/b] iirc.

Yes I can thanks - but taking "candy off babies" (metaphorically speaking) is rather unfulfilling

KS2 macroeconomics is next week....

Back to Corbyn - has he gone yet?

Please carry on as you are Junky

I am interested in a credible opposition, I would vote for a centre-ist party which af present the Labour party is showing no signs of becoming.

I wanted Corbyn as leader of Labour as I wanted the idea of a firmly left government put to bed for a very long time. So far he's delivering. May he continue until that job is done

the problem is the guardian and the BBC hate him with a passion

This, for some reason the Guardian were portraying Corbyn as the Devil before he'd even been elected as leader; they've had it in for him from day 1. Probably because if he ever did win an election, Polly Toynbee would be paying a lot more tax....

Perhaps they have experience of examining the clothing of emperors?

teamhurtmore - Member

I post,you troll...How do you fit in those what;11 papers a day?

😀

Bless - go on then, a black wine gum please

So quick poll, should he stay or go?

Regrettably I'm a go. I never thought he'd get to the 2020 election mainly because I don't believe he actually wants to be PM (I have a friend in the party who reckons it's pretty much common knowledge that this is the case). It would have been good if he could have seen through his party reforms, but the brexit vote and high chance of a new election have changed things irrevocably, and I hope that in any election labour will campaign on an anti-brexit ticket along with the libdems and the SNP. It stands to reason Corbyn is not the leader to do that.

enough said - it does indeed stand to reason

Go and quickly

Stay and get rid of all ye traitors!

Seriously, I don't want a Tory lite Labour party.

I want him to stay. If he survives the night of the long knives then the decks will be cleared for a new generation, Burnham (if he stays loyal) will be in position as loyal deputy and heir apparent to come 2020 to take over a young fresh and invigorated socially responsible REAL Labour Party.

Or something. Who knows. But the traitorous evidently fairly right wing 'labour' MPs don't seem to represent anything I want to vote for and should not be rewarded for their treachery.

I am interested in a credible opposition, I would vote for a centre-ist party

I cannot decide whether to ask you to stop trolling or just continue to get the belly laughs

Corbyn is a dead man walking and essentially he can fall on his sword or he can split the party / have more of this fr his entire leadership

the real issue is whether the membership wins or the PLP wins

The reality is that a centre left party is more likely to win than a radically left wing HOWEVER the labour party do need to engage and win back some of its core voters

http://order-order.com/2016/06/28/seumas-bad-idea/

On the one hand Governments are best held to account by an effective and intelligent opposition.

On the other hand, the £3 I paid to help him, as I told my local Labour party "do to the party what the party did to the country", is providing excellent value for money.

I am really conflicted on whether I want him to stay in place or not.

The reality is that a centre left party is more likely to win than a radically left wing HOWEVER the labour party do need to engage and win back some of its core voters

Some might suggest that the best way to do that would have been to back an out vote...

Superb!(Nice edit btw)

Junkyard The reality is that a centre left party is more likely to win than a radically left wing HOWEVER the labour party do need to engage and win back some of its core voters

Some might suggest that the best way to do that would have been to back an out vote...

In a roundabout way, they kind of did...

[url= https://medium.com/@OwenJones84/my-thoughts-on-the-plight-of-labour-38413229f88#.9zo78sabc ]Seems I was on the right lines...[/url]

"A confession. There was a plan that, along with others, I subscribed to. The general election was scheduled to take place in 2020; two years or so before, a younger left-wing member of the new intake would take Jeremy Corbyn’s place."

44 bloody good effort

Where the hell did he find 40 people in the entire Uk who don't think he's a complete waste of space? 😯

Croydon?

Henry Cline and his posse?

Whats the betting we get a leader of the oppo who is even worse?

Now Jezza - as I said about 100pages ago - go and found a left wing, socialist party with your grass roots support.

So there'll be another leadership election. Only question is, will the membership still want the Socialist Workers Party headed by Corbyn to be the opposition in the Commons?

duckman - Member

I did ask last week why he was so keen to leave the EU but so against Scotland leaving the UK.

Sorry duckman I don't read every post, there was no deliberate attempt to avoid answering that question.

I'm not sure what you mean by "so against Scotland leaving the UK".

I thought it was a mistake for Scotland to leave the UK, and I didn't hear any compelling arguments to suggest otherwise. With that in mind I thought it would be both bad for Scotland and bad for the UK if Scotland voted to leave the UK. But I certainly didn't feel intensely passionate about the issue. And btw I would feel the same about any other region of the UK - it's not a thing about Scotland.

I feel completely different about the EU. I consider the EU to be a very dangerous aggressive regressive project which aims to, and increasingly does, take power (limited as it is) away from the people and shift into the hands of bankers, industrialists, the powerful, the elite. It puts the markets before the people.

And however difficult some Scots might think it is we can defeat the ruling party in Westminster. Even if we don't and we have to live under governments which we oppose we can still bear enormous pressure on them - there is always a constant stream of U-turns and redirections.

EU directives cannot be defeated, only implemented.

So for those reasons and others, for the good of the UK and all of Europe, I strongly, passionately, support leaving the EU.

If the price of leaving the EU is Scotland going her own way then I think it is a price worth paying. The interests of the 90% outweigh the interests of the 10%.

Despite my deep commitment to fraternity out of the EU is imo more important than in with Scotland. I would bid a sad but resolute farewell.

EDIT : BTW I was only ever lukewarm in my opposition to the EEC. Maastricht changed that - as the power of the EU grew so did my opposition to it. A phenomenon which we are increasingly witnessing throughout Europe.

Its not clear there will be a leadership election as unlike the Tories they don't have a formal rule (that's my understanding). Reported Watson and Eagle will try and get enough Mps between them that Corbyn won't get the 50 he needs for a place on the ballot

Sky had some interesting coverage, there was going to be a shadow cabinet meeting then Corbyn called over his aide (seamus ?) and said this is not a good idea. Cameras off and Eagle and Watson had disappeared 🙂 its on their webiste I think, the before and after plus the audio till Corbyn's aides remembered the mics

Also said you need 90 people to serve in the shadow cabinet, he is struggling with that a bit !

He's in a terrible position, isn't he? Stuck between a rock and hard place. Damned either way.

Corbyn won't get the 50 he needs for a place on the ballot

This isn't a coup against Corbyn, it's a coup against Labour Party members. Creating the conditions which forces a ballot while specifically excluding him from the ballot paper would be a full-frontal assault on democracy.

The consequences for the Labour Party would be devastating.

Jack Straw said the mandate (constitution?) of the Labour Party is to govern with a majority so as to implement their policies, the MPs know Corbyn cannot deliver that. It would be even worse for the Labour Party if the membership are only convinced of that by a catastrophic general election result.

I didn't really have an opinion on Corbyn as Labour leader until yesterday. I watched Skinner warming up the comrades with how the miners had won in 74 (but forgetting what that led to a decade later) then Corbyn, expecting/hoping for some comment on his party's policies following the Brexit vote. Zilch, nada, nix, que dalle... . This led me to spend a bit of time Googling:

2 x Es
dropped out of uni after arguing with tutors.
led union membership in increasingly futile and industry damaging battles, a champion of restrictive practices and flying pickets to this day
voted "out" in 75
lost to Thatcher
lost to Blair
failed to stop Blair invading Iraq - a more charismatic figure leading the campaign might just might have done
led the Labour party too far left to have any chance of winning an election.
paid lip service to remain but left me suspecting he personally voted out.

I now have an opinion.

ernie_lynch - Member
This isn't a coup against Corbyn, it's a coup against Labour Party members.

I'm not sure they considered the members for one minute.

The last gasp of the Blairlites seems to be an abandonment of reason, principle and any pretence at decency.
Fitting and entirely predictable, as is their total disregard of the wishes of the membership.

A dumbed-down, principle free Labour:
"It's new, it's lite, it's further to the right" etc to appeal to Brexiters and those who have left the fold?

Fine, but that's not the Labour Party.

C'mon Jezza GFI - take the betrayed members and form a new party. The country is begging for it....

As a committed Tory voter I value your opinion on the matter THM.

Any time, glad to help [even a UKIP sympathiser] .....

Any time, glad to help [even a UKIP sympathiser] .....

Pot kettle black

Is it happy hour?

I've avoided most of the political threads recently.

Is it always like this?

cranberry - Member

On the other hand, the £3 I paid to help him, as I told my local Labour party "do to the party what the party did to the country", is providing excellent value for money.

File this along with "Blair made Labour electable" I suppose- if you hadn't carefully edited their memory you'd remember that the £3 votes made no difference, and you may as well have dropped your £3 down the drain.

Weird though... if you're going to invent your own version of history in which your £3 vote achieved anything, why actually spend the £3? I'd just invent that bit too and save £3.

Tactical manoeuvring because of the Chilcot report being announced soon is what some people suggest...he's right to wait to see what the grassroots want since they're the ones who put him where he is .....

if that's the case, that the £3 votes made no difference whatsoever to the outcome, and that essentially it was just a donation to party funds/dropped down the drain - then presumably the LP will repeat the £3 exercise in any upcoming leadership election? 😀

[quote=Rusty Spanner ]I've avoided most of the political threads recently.
Is it always like this?

It's in the forum rules - haven't you read them?

Perhaps what needs to happen is all those Labour MPs who don't like the way JC is taking the party should all resign and join the Lib Dems.

Labour would then be on the left, Lib Dems hold the centre ground and Conservative on the right.

Boom - back to 3 party politics! 😀

I've avoided most of the political threads recently.

Is it always like this?

No. Sometimes it's worse.