What makes your opinion any more valid than theirs?
The fact that his is based upon fact?
I believe he is fundamentally more decent, honest and true to the ideals of our party than any of the alternatives.
Though it seems honesty is what he is being criticised for. Not being an EU true believer he didn't campaign for it wholeheartedly.
AS he said previously
"I would advocate a No vote if we are going to get an imposition of free market policies across Europe",
In another debate, hosted by the Fabian Society, he said he had "mixed feelings" on the EU, and at a hustings in Warrington said he would not rule out campaigning to leave.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35743994
Though it seems honesty is what he is being criticised for. Not being an EU true believer he didn't campaign for it wholeheartedly.
As seen previously with JC everytime he is faced with something he doesnt agree with he does a slightly reserved sulky kid impression ( national anthem, trident etc). Can you afford to excuse it as "I did my best " if sometimes someone else might have done better?
I am worried about the larger issues and decisions that may come up if he became prime minister if this is his starting point.
I am worried about the larger issues and decisions that may come up if he became prime minister if this is his starting point.
Yep, part of being a politician is making the best of what you have. I think the majority of people believe that and why single issue conviction politicians tend to fall by the wayside either they get what they want or are out. As admirable as some of the ideas Corbyn has and as much as people like the sound of them most get that it's a series of steps to get there. Getting grumpy because you don't get what you want isn't helpful.
Again if he wants his party to support him and the masses that voted for him then maybe he needs to get rid of the party?
Or maybe a lot who voted for him did a none of the others vote or a protest not expecting him to win. The only way to find out is to re ballot, probably not something he wants but a second victory should lead to some resignations and clearing of those against him.
At this point he needs to be standing up and explaining a vision for the UK in the wake of a No Vote in tangible and achievable terms with a reason as to why labour needs to be involved in the process going forward rather than being marginaliased yet again.
everytime he is faced with something he doesnt agree with he does a slightly reserved sulky kid impression ( national anthem, trident etc).
There is nothing "slightly reserved sulky kid" about Corbyn with regards to Trident and the national anthem.
Like the SNP which won a resounding victory in Scotland Corbyn is strongly opposed to Trident replacement.
And there was nothing slightly reserved sulky kid about silently showing respect at a memorial service instead of enthusiastically bellowing "God save our gracious Queen", which apart from anything else are ridiculous words.
Go on, remind us now how he didn't bow low enough before the Queen and it caused hysteria among the right-wing media. That's always a good criticism of Corbyn.
What a mess....it's all a great big F#######G MESS!
It's now reported that Tom Watson has told Corbyn he has lost authority in PLP. Corbyn is surely now a deadman walking.
Corbyn is surely now a deadman walking.
Did he ever have the authority of them?
Everyone knows he will have to quit, why not just get on with it?
I can't see this ending in any other way than a new SDP being formed. The two wings of the Labour party are too far apart.
he never led the PLP he has the support of all members of the party except the PLP
this is an issue a major issue and is in danger of creating civil war between the two.
I see no obvious solution
Its actually quite pathetic now - in the true sense of the word. As I said several months ago, this must be a nightmare for Corbyn and not good for his health.
He didnt want the job
He is ill-equipped for it
He is lacking leadership skills and clearly not a statesmen
He is the wrong guy, in the wrong place and the wrong time
Its amazing that political parties do this to themselves - or at least that their members chose people who are so obviously wrong. Its not just Labour, the Tories are just as guilty.
FFS, lets get this silly period over. We need an effective opposition with strong and effective leadership.
When you are a protest politician you can vote against everything with impunity. When you are a leader you have to lead and negotiate some tricky conflicts. Very different. IMHO if Corbyn had not been the leader he would have campaigned for Leave. He found himself in a no win position, or maybe he got the outcome he really wanted
Are the unions and a lot of party members not still in support of him though?
Which then runs the risk that they feel their own parties MPs are ignoring their wishes? Oh, back to normal then for politics. Tongue firmly in cheek.
When you are a protest politician you can vote against everything with impunity. When you are a leader you have to lead and negotiate some tricky conflicts. Very different.
As Bojo and Gove are about to find out
Yes, there is the irony that he has grass roots support even if he/they chose to be on different sides of this debate.
I can't see this ending in any other way than a new SDP being formed.
Or a merger between the Liberal Democrats and the right of the labour party, which will then campaign on an anti-brexit ticket? Whilst wanting to avoid hyberbole, this sort of stuff is pretty revolutionary. We could very easily end up with a completely fragmented political system on a par with Italy, with half a dozen or so parties, none of whom have the power to form a government on their own.
this must be a nightmare for Corbyn
Well it's in his hands to end the nightmare, but unfortunately the worst of the power grabbing hard left is now in play and they won't give it up.
Or a merger between the Liberal Democrats and the right of the labour party,
+1 you might even find the odd pro-EU Tory willing to come over.
I guess you'd end up with from left to right, Labour, New Center ground party, Tories (inc UKIP).
Lisa Nandy being touted as leadership challenger. Bring it on
It's like the Labour party can't stand to see the Tories getting all the bad press!
On the subject of Corbyn voters not voting for him again. I think it would depend on who was up against him in a challenge. If there was someone who felt like a sensible compromise between socialist values and statesmanship/leadership qualities then it might happen, but I don't see one.
ctk - Member
Lisa Nandy being touted as leadership challenger. Bring it on
Hell I thought for a second that was Mandy coming back from the grave again 🙂
Nandy has resigned from shadow cabinet, this revolt is far wider than just Blairites.
isnt it time to bring back the other milliband?
He landed back in the UK last night.
Probably just a coincidence, and he's been planning on popping by for ages
We could very easily end up with a completely fragmented political system on a par with Italy, with half a dozen or so parties, none of whom have the power to form a government on their own.
What a sort of proportional representation 😆
Lisa Nandy being touted as leadership challenger
& I just heard Nando's as leader...shurely a vote winner?
(I've never been but I've heard it's quite popular)
Release the Miliband!
...the proper one this time.
Trial by bacon sandwich has been initiated
Two brothers. One Bacon sandwich. Rind 1, Fight!
Has anyone had a phone call from Jeremy's office asking them to be shadow scottish minister yet?
Surely that would only be a temporary post, binners?
Rachel
I just hope Corbyn doesn't resign even if he loses a leadership election. Don't think he would though.
😆bongohoohaa - Member
Release the Miliband!...the proper one this time.
bongohoohaa - Member
Two brothers. One Bacon sandwich. Rind 1, Fight!
No need for a rash, err, decision or a streaky victory here.
Has anyone had a phone call from Jeremy's office asking them to be shadow scottish minister yet?
Its going to be like the school football team where the captain takes the penalties, the corners and does the coin toss. He's going to do the lot himself
Technically you don't need to be an MP to be in the shadow cabinet. Binners, Ernie, pack your crayons and your Che Guevara t-shirts, you're up!
So the Labour party leader,emphatically,fairly and democratically elected leader less than a year ago by a ballot of hundreds of thousands of Labour party supporters is being ousted a few dozen members of the parliamentary Labour party because thet are not happy with the result of a national referendum voted on by the whole of the United Kingdom? You couldn't make it up.
No they are not happy with his Leadership which was clearly pathetic during the referendum. And don't forget the MPs were democratically elected by their constituents, who are far more representative of the people, than the Labour party membership which whored itself for a few quid.
Practically queuing up behind Corbyn now ready to ram the knife between the shoulder blades.
Labour always know when to implode at just the right moment.
This from FB from a good mate of mine who's a labour party activist 🙂
"The benefit of this mass resignation from the Labour Party front bench is that you actually find out who our education leader, our transport leader, our justice leader, our Wales and Scotland leaders (yes we do have one) actually were. I am not lying when I say I have never heard of (until today) Lilian Greenwood, Karl Turner, Kate Green, Nia Griffith or Ian Murray. I still don't know what any of them have done in nine months and that can include Alessandro Del Piero, John Healy, Vernon Stoker, Lucy Powell and Kerry Lenin and McCartney."
😀
And don't forget the MPs were democratically elected by their constituents, who are far more representative of the people, than the Labour party membership which whored itself for a few quid.
You mean those constituents who turned out in force and just voted to leave the EU? 🙂
I find it interesting that people are accusing Labour of 'ignoring' the 'working classes' when the truth is, that successive right-wing governments and a right-wing media have been steadily churning out propaganda to suit their neo-liberal agenda. It's not Labour's fault that many amongst the 'working classes' have swallowed this propaganda and ended up believing the lies, the manipulation of facts and statistics, and succumbing to the divide and rule ideology of the right.
As had been said already on here; it's interesting to note that many areas with large immigrant populations voted by a majority to remain. I'd put that down to people's real experience of actually living and working with other nationalities and cultures, rather than simply believing what the Murdoch/Rothermere/Desmond press tell them.
"You can't sneer at people, call them offensive names like racists, bigots, knickledraggers and idiots and then wonder why they haven't engaged with you."
What are you supposed to do with them? Pander to their ignorance and xenophobia? What if they actually are racists, bigots, knuckledraggers and idiots?
Labour's biggest failure, is to confront that right-wing propaganda and show it up for what it really is. Very difficult when you don't control the mass media. This has been compounded by the 'liberal elite' being somewhat insulated from the experience of others, and not seeing the effects of this propaganda until it's too late. But then, a party once of the left, was hijacked by Blair, which merely served to further strengthen the right. And now we have a situation where the right-wingers in Labour are throwing their toys out of the pram, because Jeremy Corbyn and others had the temerity to want to return Labour to the left again, and actually make it a proper party of opposition, rather than simply the other side of a shit sandwich.
I suppose I'm part of that 'liberal elite'; indeed, Brexit doesn't really affect me, certainly not economically. But I do try to think a bit further than myself, and would much rather live in a better society where things are a bit fairer and less xenophobic than they are now. And I can't see that happening unless there is a radical shift in position by Labour, to the left. We need a better balance in UK politics. I look upon this 'crisis' within Labour as an opportunity to finally get rid of the likes of Hilary Benn, Margaret Hodge, Chuka Umunna, John Mann and all the other self-serving blairite ****s, and get some committed lefties in once more.
by a ballot of hundreds of thousands of Labour party supporters
not strictly true. 😀
*Best. £3. Ever*
Release the Miliband!
I believe that there is an uncontested Labour seat going begging at the moment.
What a mess.
From 1974 http://theoryandpractice.org.uk/library/irrational-politics-maurice-brinton-1974
"Let us consider for a moment - and not through rose-tinted spectacles - the average middle-aged working-class voter today (it matters little in this respect whether he votes "Conservative" or "Labour"). He is probably hierarchy-conscious, xenophobic, racially-prejudiced, pro-monarchy, pro-capital-punishment, pro-law-and-order, anti-demonstrator, anti-longhaired students and anti-dropout. He is almost certainly sexually repressed (and hence an avid, if vicarious, consumer of the distorted sexuality endlessly depicted in the pages of the News of the World). No "practical" Party (aiming at power through the ballot-box) would ever dream of appealing to him through the advocacy of wage equality, workers' management of production, racial integration, penal reform, abolition of the monarchy, dissolution of the police, sexual freedom for adolescents or the legalization of pot. Anyone proclaiming this kind of "transitional programme" would not only fail to get support but would probably be considered some kind of a nut."
not strictly true.
Same is going to be the case for the new conservative leader.
*registers*
