Jeremy Corbyn

Binners-San* is the one on the right.

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*auto correct but I think I'll keep it!

Binners, kimbers and clodhopper in the good old days

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tjagain - Member

Which ones you and which ones Ernie?

We all like a bit of banter but I find the suggestion that I might be ginger deeply offensive.

Right! I've rehearsed reading Ernies statements in an earnest voice, so I'm off to my Momentum meeting shortly. I'm hoping I don't get rumbled. If I need any further revolutionary crudentials, I'm a few chapters in to Dennis Skinners biography, and my cat is actually called Che Guevara*... erm... comrades

* I'm not joking either. He is.

ernie_lynch - Member
We all like a bit of banter but I find the suggestion that I might be ginger deeply offensive.

Not man enough for it? 🙂

Well... having been to the Momentum meeting

This isn't just a cult.

This is David Koresh stockpiling automatic weapons behind the fortified walls of the compound.

I have this vision of Donald Pleasance from the great escape teaching the fillers how to imitate the call of a cuckoo while the hard core go about under-mining.

Close?

Take me with you? I can vote, I tell you! Take me with you?

@binners very interesting that meeting must have been

@dazh who would have thought it, Tom Watson saying the membership and leadership campaign has been infiltrated by Trotskiests ? Watson's comments mirror those I've been making for months.

Shami's nomination for a peerage stinks as imo she most certainly was promised it in return for agreeing to produce the [s]independent report[/s] cover-up. She was asked before publication if she had been offered one (journalists clearly had a good ifea she had been) and she repeatedly dodged answer the question. What is doubly obnoxious is Corbyn was prepared to go against his long term (alleged ?) principals and actually nominate anyone at all.

jambalaya - Member

Shami's nomination for a peerage stinks as imo she most certainly was promised it in return for agreeing to produce the independent report cover-up.

[i][b]Shami Chakrabarti, the former director of Liberty and a lawyer with a well-deserved reputation for integrity, produced a thoughtful and important report on antisemitism and racism in the Labour party at the request of Jeremy Corbyn. It is highly regrettable that they are both now under attack because her inquiry did not find evidence to support allegations of rampant antisemitism in the party.

Such attacks say more about her detractors than they do about Chakrabarti. Their real objections concern her recommendation that the party’s disciplinary processes conform to the principles of natural justice, so that allegations of antisemitism and other forms of racism will be properly investigated, members cannot be suspended without knowing the charges against them, and people are protected against scurrilous and ill-founded allegations.

As Jews whose views are not represented by the chief rabbi, the Board of Deputies of British Jews or the pro-Israel lobbyists of the Campaign Against Antisemitism, we dissociate ourselves from the attacks on Chakrabarti and urge Corbyn to hold firm in implementing the positive recommendations in her report.

George Abendstern
Liane Aukin
Daphna Baram
Julia Bard
Sue Bard
Hannah Basson
Sandi Beecher
Shereen Benjamin
Sarah Benton
Craig Berman
Jo Bird
Rica Bird
Carla Bloom
Jenny Bloom
Louise Bloom
Professor Haim Bresheeth
Elizabeth Carola
Linda Clair
Mike Cushman
Ivor Dembina
Dr Judit Druks
Claudio García Ehrenfeld
Nancy Elan
Mark Elf
Liz Elkind
Deborah Fink
Sylvia Finzi
Louella Frankel Jones
Kenneth Fryde
Tessa van Gelderen
Claire Glasman
Monica Gort
Tony Greenstein
Abe Hayeem
Rosamine Hayeem
Professor Susan Himmelweit
Sue Hughes
Claire Jackson
Dr Vivienne Jackson
Selma James
Riva Joffe
Ann Jungman
Michael Kalmanovitz
Roisin Kalmanovitz
Monash Kessler
Simon Korner
Richard Kuper
David Landau
Pam Laurance
Leah Levane
Rachel Lever
Les Levidow
Susanne Levin
Rosalind Levy
Vivien Lichtenstein
John Lohrenz
Ruth London
Professor Yosefa Loshitzky
Deborah Maccoby
Professor Moshé Machover
Beryl Maizels
Jenny Manson
Miriam Margolyes
Stephen Marks
Martine Miel
Professor Simon Mohun
David Mond
Professor Mica Nava
Chaim Neslen
Diana Neslen
Esther Neslen
Helen Pearson
Rina Picciotto
Frances Ri****
Roland Rance
Michael Rosen
David Rosenberg
Professor Jonathan Rosenhead
Leon Rosselson
Maureen Rothstein
Michael Sackin
Caroline Salinger
Ben Samuel
Professor Donald Sassoon
Ian Saville
Miriam Scharf
Amanda Sebesteyn
Glyn Secker
Sam Semoff
Alexander Seymour
Professor Avi Shlaim
Ray Sirotkin
Dr David Sperlinger
Vanessa Stilwell
Alexandra Trone
Professor Clare Ungerson
Professor Philip Wadler
Margaret Wayne
Naomi Wayne
Sam Weinstein
Naomi Wimborne-Idrissi
Devra Wiseman
Naomi Woodspring
Ben Young
Dr Gillian Yudkin
Professor John S Yudkin
Professor Nira Yuval-Davis[/b][/i]

Rhea Wolfson, a Jewish activist backed by the Grassroots Alliance and Momentum, was elected onto Labour's NEC yesterday.

Despite the best efforts of right-wingers like the former Scottish Labour leader Jim Murphy to stop her.

I wouldn't accuse Jim Murphy of being anti-Semitic for opposing a Jewish activist though, I leave that sort of bollocks to desperate right-wingers.

http://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/rhea-wolfson-elected-to-labours-executive-committee/

I think the anti-semitism allegations come from the fact a lot on the left are anti zionist / isreal. Its not the same thing as anti semitism altho the Israeli government would like you to believe it is. And if one were being pedantic the Semitic peoples include all the arabs anyway.

Ernie the report may as well have Cover Up at the head of every page. You can see from the terms of reference it wasn't anything like "independent inquiry". Shami herself said she had joined the Labour Party and made that public so members would understand she was on their side.

The Jewish people I know where not at all surprised at the cover up. Saddened yes that someone like Chakrabati would stoop to such depths in return for a Peerage but not surprised.

I have never read a full report or piece of work from her before onky seen her on tv, from the anti-semitism report I certainly don't respect her. Her nomination for a peerage is a clear payment for agreeing to write the report

Jamba - If you have never read anything about her you are in no position to judge. Highly respected fighter for Human rights. Well respected right across the political spectrum apart from the far right.

Peerage for a cover up - thats a good one from you.

@tjagIn - yes there is a lot of truth in that large sections of the hard left are anti-Israel, partly in support of Palestinians but also as the US supports Israel so strongly, anything the US does is to be opposed including Capitalism. These hard left elements are frequently anti-Semitic and quite openly so. They don't differentiate between Jews based on their views just their religion, most British Jews don't carry Isreali passports and thus vote in their elections how can they possibly be held responsible for the actions of the state. Yes of course you can oppose Isreali policy without being anti-Semitic - many Jews themselves oppose Isreali government policy, its a coalition government not one that won a 100% share of the vote.

Note Zionsim simply means the belief of the right of the Jewish people to have a home state. Jews have only one state, Israel. To be against the entire state and the only place in the world Jews have the right to live is fundamentally anti-Semitic in my view.

What about anti-Zionist Jews?

the only place in the world Jews have the right to live

What a load of bollox. Jews have the right to live in the UK. And quite a few other places.

To claim that they don't have this right sounds a tad anti-Semitic to me.

Well there you go Jamba. Showing a basic lack of understanding of what anti semitism is.

I have never read a full report or piece of work from her before onky seen her on tv, from the anti-semitism report I certainly don't respect her. Her nomination for a peerage is a clear payment for agreeing to write the report

Just as well she's not a mountain biker as there would be lawsuits flying around about pretty obvious libel...

Well last night was interesting , to say the least. Educational. It was enlightening as to what the whole Momentum thing was all about.

Basically... [url= http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/tom-watson-angers-jeremy-corbyn-fans-with-attack-on-arm-twisting-trots-infiltrating-labour_uk_57a9c626e4b089961b857cde ]what Tom Watson said the other day was pretty much bang on![/url]. It would have been impossible to witness what I did last night and not draw that exact conclusion. The 3 of us who went all thought exactly the same.

As he said: They have no interest at all in winning a general election. They do not want to win the votes of a wider electorate. They are the outriders of 'Radical Revolutionary Socialism'.

So to start with this was billed as 'the establishment of a local branch of Momentum'. But we don't recognise anyone. And we're all local labour party members. Then the Momentum mob introduce themselves and - surprise surprise - they aren't local. They've been bussed in. As people stand up to speak, they introduce themselves. A lot of these people aren't from the constituency either.

So far, so Militant Tendency then.

The first point of order from Mr Momentum (complete with Cuban flag T-shirt): How to get your Constituency Labour Party Parliamentary Candidate deselected. Wooooah there!!! * me! No foreplay then? Not even a bit of fumbling with the bra strap? We're going straight in bareback there then?

There is no discussion as to WHY our Constituency Labour Party Parliamentary Candidate should be deselected. Its straight to HOW to go about doing it. Now I know our Parliamentary Candidate. He's a thoroughly decent bloke. He lost to the Tory candidate, in our key marginal constituency, after a recount, by 120 votes. So over 49% of voters thought he was a credible candidate. He's the epitome of a centre left MP.

But no. We're being told - by a load of lefties from out of town - that he has to go. Presumably because he has failed to show due deference to the Glorious leader. The representatives of St Jeremy of Islington have deemed he has been disloyal so he is to be 'purged'. As must the other members of the local Constituency Labour Party, as they come up for re-election. We are not told who they will be replaced by. None of the faithful cult members ask. Jeremy will know. The Glorious Leader will appoint who is best for us.

This is all starting to have more than the whiff of North Korea about it. I'm sorry... I didn't catch your name? And where are you people from again....?

Obviously what our knife-edge marginal constituency needs is a radical left wing candidate? Imposed from an Islington bunker. The last election result clearly shows that to be the case. Doesn't it? Its the only logical conclusion to reach, surely?

Then theres the language used. Its the same as our resident Marxist and other assorted Corbynites. Its the language of the bunker. Of paranoia. Its all 'plotters' and 'coups'. It requires 'eradication' and 'purges' of 'traitors' and 'right-wingers'.The tone says it all. Its paranoid, its extremely confrontational, and its very very aggressive. Uncomfortably so.

one phrase was repeated over and over and over. A very familiar phrase of late...

"Take Back Control"

... repeated over and over and over

Recognise it? You couldn't make it up. This Momentum guy was the mirror image of Farage. The left to his right. Without the 'bloke down the pub' charm. Even parroting the same phrase, over an over. The irony was apparently lost

Be in no doubt... this is the 80's all over again. These people are entryists. They are insurgents. They are trots, and Marxists who are espousing 'Radical Revolutionary Socialism' and couldn't give a toss about democracy

Because clearly thats what the British Electorate are crying out for at the ballot box

After what I saw last night I can honestly say, without any doubt, that when Corbyn is re-elected (which is now bound to happen) the 'purges' will start. And when this happens, the Labour party is utterly and completely, well and truly *ed! It is finished! Over!

Welcome to the one party Tory state. Endless right wing rule by an unopposed triumphant Party with free range to do what the hell it likes, indefinitely. With the 6th form trots shouting their bile, totally ineffectually, from the sidelines

Oh... at no point last night were the Tories even mentioned. Not once. Shows the priorities at play here.

Whats happening in the labour party is an absolute tragedy. And we we all be worse off as a result of this democratic deficit that is about to be ushered in by these hardline lunatics.

One of the most depressing things I have ever witnessed. Jeremy Corbyn and his followers are very very dangerous people. Be in no doubt about that. I'm certainly not, after what I saw last night

Did anyone challenge this? What was the response?

Oh... at no point last night were the Tories even mentioned. Not once. Shows the priorities at play here.

No real surprise there - its very inward looking. And I though Bojo was demonstrating narcissistic tendencies!

And we we all be worse off as a result of this democratic deficit

Already the case

One of the most depressing things I have ever witnessed. Jeremy Corbyn and his followers are very very dangerous people. Be in no doubt about that. I'm certainly not, after what I saw last night

No they are not, they are gently and new - get with the game. 😉

Cuckoo!

binners - Member

We're being told - by a load of lefties from out of town - that he has to go.

So your town has no lefties ...... the lefties have to come from another town.

That's interesting, what's your town called ? And why do all the lefties live in another town ? What's wrong with yours ?

The atmosphere wasn't one that was about debate on policy. Of two way conversations. The atmosphere was that of a cult. The 3 of us sat biting our lips as one after another people stood up to praise their revolutionary hero. This was a leftie echo chamber. The same one Jeremy and most of his followers obviously inhabit

Seriously... its a cult! And they're dangerous! This is Militant all over again> In fact, I honestly think this lot are worse. They're even more convinced that they're right, and that then justifies anything

At one point - and I swear I'm not making this up - they had a serious, lengthy discussion about how Momentum could prevent Jeremy from being assassinated. As 'The State' would obviously attempt this in a bid to stop the revolution.

Seriously!! 😯 This is what you're dealing with!

Well done binners. I admire your adventure to get the skinny from the horses mouth. Now at least you can't be accused of just "parroting what you read in the right wing press" (my paraphrase).

Although I'm pretty sure ernest will give it his best shot.

My sympathies to your sincere political preferences, which seem to be dying the death of a thousand cuts.

binners - Member

I swear I'm not making this up

It's very hard to believe a man who, despite Corbyn having over a quarter of a million supporters in the Labour Party, claims that his town so lacks Corbyn supporters that they have to be brought in from outside.

I have to say that on the occasions that I make a vague attempt to read your endless rants binners I am constantly amazed at the creative bollox that you keep coming out with 🙂

And now binners, watch for the classic response of closing down dissent. There is one group who are past masters at that!!

Oh, wait a second....

Ernie - I think we can trust the gist of this. BInners may enjoy a good rant but I don't see him as a purveyor of "Jambyfacts"

I have to say that on the occasions that I make a vague attempt to read your endless rants binners I am constantly amazed at the creative bollox that you keep coming out with

Is that the best you can come up with? Seriously, take five and have another go. There must be another loophole in Binners' post somewhere.

The script almost writes itself, THM!

Indeed it does and binners is now taking on a well-versed tag team!

There must be another loophole in Binners' post somewhere.

No doubt, I didn't really read his rant. The bit about Corbyn supporters having to be bussed in from outside town caught my eye, specially as it's universally agreed, even by his opponents, that he has a huge level of support.

I don't really bother arguing with binners, why would I, what would be the point ?

Corbyn supporter does not necessarily equal Momentum Activist, no?

No doubt, I didn't really read his rant.

That's one way of dealing with it, I suppose.

No doubt, I didn't really read his rant...I don't really bother arguing with binners, why would I, what would be the point ?

Evidence would suggest otherwise, but carry on, or not as the case may be!!

Well not if you believe the media bollox about Momentum. It's hard to support Corbyn but be opposed to Momentum. If you find yourself in that situation I would suggest that you consider reevaluating your position.

It's hardly surprising that a new branch of Momentum would have folk from existing branches outside the area sent in to explain the aims and agenda of the wider organisation to potential new members. I don't see why this is the part of the post that is causing you so much difficulty.

I also don't see why agreeing with the anti-austerity, investment and social justice agenda put forward by Corbyn would automatically make you a Momentum activist, or even supporter. The two can easily be separated.

Its the language of the bunker. Of paranoia. Its all 'plotters' and 'coups'. It requires 'eradication' and 'purges' of 'traitors' and 'right-wingers'.The tone says it all. Its paranoid, its extremely confrontational, and its very very aggressive. Uncomfortably so.

What do you expect? It seems inarguable that the PLP and NEC have been scheming against Corbyn - the orchestrated resignation, the gerrymandering, the poisonous briefings. Meanwhile Corbyn and Smith are proposing fairly similar left of centre policies yet Corbyn is supposedly a raging Trot.

No wonder so many of us think the whole business is total cobblers.

It's hardly surprising that a new branch of Momentum would have folk from existing branches outside the area sent in to explain the aims and agenda of the wider organisation to potential new members.

It's very surprising imo. I doubt that you understand Momentum very well, it has a tiny membership structure for a start, most are just supporters, and it's been active ever since Corbyn was first elected leader.

If you believe the media bollox that it's some sort of party within a party then I can understand how you might misunderstand.

I would still be interested in knowing what town it was, specially as they have set up Momentum so late in the day. What have they been doing the last 12 months, never mind the last 2 months - haven't they been following the news ffs ?

EDIT : And remember, this meeting was apparently packed with outsiders. Not a few to "explain the aims and agenda", whatever that entails.

Momentum has only 12,000 members, Labour 500,000.

Binners: Well done for putting your money where your mouth is. I might try and get to a Momntum meeting locally. I don't know anybody in Momentum but I know 5 or so people who voted Corbs in last election and pretty sure they'll vote him in next.

Deselecting someone who hasn't been elected seems harsh! What's the process to deselect someone?

And remember, this meeting was apparently packed with outsiders. Not a few to "explain the aims and agenda", whatever that entails.

Well, only one of us was there. But just to be clear, you believe he's making this particular point up?

Well his holiness is coming to Milton Keynes on Saturday

assuming he doesnt get assassinated, will be toddling along to see what he says!

You're missing the point here Ernie. unsurprisingly. Probably deliberately.

I didn't say 'packed with outsiders'. I pointed out that the people who came in, stood up and told us (members of the constituency Labour Party and local constituants) that we should be de-selcting our Parliamentary Candidate, and also members of our constituency party (presumably soley on the grounds that they are not approved of by the bearded one - no reason was given) were from who knows where? certainly not within the constituency.I doubt their proposed replacements (also not mentioned) would be either

This raises one major question to me:

1. Where does this fit in with this much vaunted 'Democratic Mandate' that Jeremy says is the foundation of the movement, and indeed his own leadership?

Or on a more emotional level, let me put it in the same way it was subsequently voiced by the three of us listening to it:

2) Who the * do these people think they are to rock up out of the blue and start telling people who should and shouldn't be their parliamentary representative? What *ing right do they think they have to do that then?

Feel free to answer whichever question style you're most comfortable with

off you go......

2) Who the * do these people think they are to rock up out of the blue and start telling people who should and shouldn't be their parliamentary representative? What *ing right do they think they have to do that then?

About as much right as the NEC has to tells us who should and shouldn't be eligible to vote. About as much right as the shadow cabinet has to try and force its leader to resign.

It's pretty clear that the Labour party is an unholy mess. Time to scrap it.

2) Who the * do these people think they are to rock up out of the blue and start telling people who should and shouldn't be their parliamentary representative? What *ing right do they think they have to do that then?

that is crap but wgaf considering how many candidates are parachuted in to safe seats they will 'represent' as an MP

"Well... having been to the Momentum meeting"

Yeah. Sure. Right. Course you did. Ok. 😆

And I suppose you went with an open mind, ready to have your opinion changed if anyone convinced you that there might be an alternative way of thinking to the narrow-minded, judgmental prejudiced attitude from which you obviously suffer?

"I swear I'm not making this up"

😆

Come on Binners; pull the other one. 😉

Errmmm - its on his facebook as well including pics.

"The Jewish people I know where not at all surprised at the cover up. "

Interesting, because the Jewish people I know, including several on that list Ernie posted, have accepted that the whole anti-Semitism slur was concocted purely to try and damage Corbyn. And that includes a few 'pro-Isreal' people. Anyone with any intelligence saw the accusations for what they were, bollocks. And has accepted the findings of the reports. Only those who have an axe to grind have deliberately chosen not to accept it.

"These hard left elements are frequently anti-Semitic and quite openly so."

Evidence please. Or shut up.

As for Shami Chakrabati; I'm mystified why you'd be so opposed to someone with her unquestionable dedication to fighting for human rights receiving a justifiable reward for her endavours. She's far more deserving than 95% of the cronies that sit in the upper house. And she's done a shit load more to help better our society, than you ever have or ever will.

kimbers - Member

that is crap but wgaf considering how many candidates are parachuted in to safe seats they will 'represent' as an MP

Well it's the NEC who has the power to impose candidates onto constituency parties, and since the New Labour clique have had a stranglehold on the party it's been going on for a very long time :

[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/blair-accused-of-plot-to-impose-candidates-1348712.html ]Blair accused of plot to impose candidates[/url]

However things changed last week and the New Labour clique no longer have a majority on the NEC.

Except unprecedented levels of hypocrisy from Labour right-wingers and their friends in the media should the new current NEC dare to intervene in the selection processes of constituencies.

But, TJ, what you're clearly missing is the fact that those pics are a plant by the right wing media and GCHQ.

Cheers Binners, very interesting that. I've been trying to keep an open mind but I think I've said previously that I thought the Corbyn thing was becoming a bit of a cult of personality, and this would seem to confirm it. Did any of the constituency members question any of this? In particular the need to deselect the candidate? What was the response?

Whilst I can accept that hardcore momentum organisers fit the description, I still don't believe that all these 100s of thousands of new members are entryist trots. Seems to me there's an opportunity there for the non-Corbyn wing of the labour party to capture these members, and it shouldn't be very hard if the momentum lot are as barking as you say. Before that can happen though the PLP needs to give up it's authoritarian and machiavellian machinations and start listening and talking to them.

All these problems would be solved if the Tories in the Labour party moved over to their real home the[s] Peasant-Crushing[/s] Tory party.

As for Shami Chakrabati; I'm mystified why you'd be so opposed to someone with her unquestionable dedication to fighting for human rights receiving a justifiable reward for her endavours. She's far more deserving than 95% of the cronies that sit in the upper house. And she's done a shit load more to help better our society, than you ever have or ever will.

I doubt you would see many people at all, if anyone, suggest that Shami Chakrabati is anything but wholly deserving of an honour, and indeed a place in the (unelected, remember) House of Lords. Her years of work on Human Rights make her the perfect type of person for inclusion in the legislative system (that so many on the left disagree with, remember)

Giving her that honour immediately after hosting an independent inquiry into problems (made up or otherwise) in the Labour Party however is just ridiculously bad politics, most particuarly after the cosy relationship that Blair (pantomime boo, hiss) had with party donations and cash for honours

Like so many other things that the LP has done recently, creating their own elephant trap to leap into as well as the ones the Tories have laid (with great big signs saying 'this is a trap') by handing her an honour within days of giving a remarkably upbeat report has to call into question the political competence of Corbyn and his surrounding team (far more than it calls into question the integrity of Chakrabati)

Tories in the Labour party

Go on then, who is your political Fulcrum, at what point, politically, do you become a Red Tory?

Maybe you could give some examples of who you are referring to as Tory? Let's see where the political divide starts?

Whilst I can accept that hardcore momentum organisers fit the description, I still don't believe that all these 100s of thousands of new members are entryist trots.

I don't either Daz. The thing is that I think most of us with left wing views agree with a lot of what Corbyn is saying. So as a destination, I don't have a problem with it.

What I do disagree with is where its going. There have now been so many examples of a pretty nasty and sinister undercurrent to all this. Its unpleasant on a number of levels. The anti-semitism and the threats, and the violent misogyny is coming from somewhere. And I think its coming from the same Militant element as the 80's, who've now hijacked the whole thing to suit their own hard left agenda>

But now - more seriously than that IMHO - is what I witnessed last night. And I can only presume by the way it was reeled off, parrot fashion that this is happening across the country in every constituency association. And whats happening is the subverting of democracy by a cabal. These people are travelling the country and making good on Corbyns threat - that if MP's failed to tow the line, they would be deselected.

What I saw last night is that this was no idle threat. They're already well underway with the proces. And its not just MP's, or candidates, the aim of this process is to 'purge' (their word) the party of dissenters, and eradicate (again - their word) any opinion that contrasts with Corbyns

Its a cult! Pure and simple! A very very dangerous one. On many levels

"Giving her that honour immediately after hosting an independent inquiry into problems (made up or otherwise) in the Labour Party however is yesterday ridiculously bad politics"

So, using the opportunity of Scameron's resignation honours to install somebody who should be there, inot the upper house to help counter all the tory cronies there is 'ridiculously bad politics'? Sounds like ridiculously good politics to me. Fantastic bit of opportunism, and a very shrewd more by Corbyn.

Giving a gong to your wife's 'stylist' is ridiculously bad politics. I don't ever have to bother to explain why.

Did any of the constituency members question any of this? In particular the need to deselect the candidate? What was the response?

Looking around the room there were only two distinct groups of people. The majority were the Cult members, standing up and praising the Bearded Messiah, like a north Korean praises the Glorious Leader, to wild North Korean style Applause. Then the paranoia of saying Jeremy needed to be protected from assassination by 'The State' (I mean ... SERIOUSLY... get a grip FFS?!!). It was mental. And not an atmosphere that encouraged anyone to contradict any of this evangelical lunacy.

Then there was me and my 2 friends (who are both quite a bit older and were absolutely horrified by what they were witnessing) and a small minority of others who were looking decidedly uncomfortable with the way this whole thing was going.

Like I said... this wasn't an atmosphere to encourage debate. This is a cult.And cults don't tolerate the questioning of the leader. That was very apparent right from the off.

You know me Daz. When do I miss an opportunity to gob off? But I sat there and kept my mouth shut last night. Standing up and disagreeing with them would have been a totally futile exercise. This wasn't a debate. This was a rally

"Its a cult! Pure and simple! "

Oh look! I'm using lots of exclamation marks! Which makes my posts seem so much more meaningful! And insightful! And hopefully people will pay more attention!

!!!!!!!!

"What I do disagree with is where its going."

Nobody's forcing you to stay. As before; you are free to go and join any party you like, which you feel best represents your own views and interests. I'm sure the LibDems would welcome you with open arms. 😆

"Then there was me and my 2 friends (who are both a lot older and were absolutely horrified by what they were witnessing) and a minority of others who were looking decidedly uncomfortable with the way this whole thing was going."

So you sat there and said nothing? 😆

You are funny. Ranting on and on on here, day and night, 24/7, but you havent' got the balls to actually stand up and voice your opinions in front of actual people?

What a brave little soldier you are. 😆

Yourself and the Croydon Communist are certainly doing your bit to promote and highlight the more intelligent, and civilised, level of debate within the Corbynista ranks Clodhopper.

i can't see why anyone wouldn't be attracted to this gentler, kinder ethos you both so eloquently espouse

Giving a gong to your wife's 'stylist' is ridiculously bad politics. I don't ever have to bother to explain why.

Oh, I agree

But [b]all[/b] political capital in that was lost (and they could have used that to slap the Tories round the face for a long time IMO) when The LP handed one to Shami for her report

And you have to give some bloody credit to J-TV for an utterly remarkable journalistic scoop in asking her that question in their interview!

ninfan - Member
"Tories in the Labour party'
Go on then, who is your political Fulcrum, at what point, politically, do you become a Red Tory?

I would start with those who abstained from opposing austerity or the DWP measures.

But I'm no expert. I'm watching this from the sidelines only because I regard Corbyn as Labour's best chance of recovery - which I do not want to see because a strong Labour party will affect our chances of independence in Scotland by taking seats from the SNP.

Before that can happen though the PLP needs to give up it's authoritarian and machiavellian machinations and start listening and talking to them.

Couldn't agree more Daz. They're not doing themselves any favours.I don't know how they think its being perceived.

I'd favour the opposite approach when dealing with such obvious cultist loons... simply give them enough rope....

You know me Daz. When do I miss an opportunity to gob off? But I sat there and kept my mouth shut last night. Standing up and disagreeing with them would have been a totally futile exercise. This wasn't a debate. This was a rally

Sounds quite fun. I loved nothing more in my politico days than winding up Socialist Workers. I'll have to keep an eye out for any meetings round my way, although up here it's more likely to be the National Front, not Momentum.

I would start with those who abstained from opposing austerity or the DWP measures.

But that was whipped party policy.

You can't go in about 'loyalty' and then accuse people who followed LP orders of being Tories.

Sounds quite fun. I loved nothing more in my politico days than winding up Socialist Workers. I'll have to keep an eye out for any meetings round my way, although up here it's more likely to be the National Front, not Momentum.

@clodhopper I have posted numerous personal examples on here before, direct experiences witnessed by myself and/or direct friends and colleagues. The most recent anti-semitism allegations came from within Labour initially OULC where Jewish Labour party members where the victims of anti-semitic abuse and highlighted that plus general anti-semitic behaviour from Labour supporters towards other Jewish students. Then we have Livingstone deliberately inflaming the issue.

The whole "slur" defence is an attempt to divert the conversation asay from the real issue. Corbyn could have put it to bed by publishing the original report from Baroness Royal in full and taking appropriate action. But he did not, to the contrary one if those named was given a senior advisory role. Then we add to the is the outright lie or inference thats it's the "zionist media"

OULC where Jewish Labour party members where the victims of anti-semitic abuse and highlighted that plus general anti-semitic behaviour from Labour supporters towards other Jewish students.

the OULC issue has much more to do with the Uinversitie's failure to tackle problems of bigotry and bullying among its various societies

meanwhile in the blue corner
(and this is ignoring the hatered and racism whipped up by the whole Brexit debacle)

• In 1989, David Cameron defied international sanctions to go on a jolly to apartheid South Africa1
on a trip funded by a firm that lobbied against the imposition of sanctions on the apartheid
regime. The Prime Minister apologised for the trip 17 years later, in 2006.

• In 2001, Tory MP Andrew Lansley told the Daily Telegraph, “There is endemic racism in the Tory
party. It is in the system.”2

• In a 2002 column for the Daily Telegraph, Boris Johnson (then MP for Henley) described black
people as “piccaninnies” with “watermelon smiles”.
He apologised six years later in 2008 (when running to be London Mayor). No disciplinary action
was taken by the Conservative Party at any point.
3

• In July 2006, Chorley Tory councillor Shaun Smith was arrested following an alleged racist
incident at Manchester airport
4.
He quit as a councillor in 2009 after refusing to provide the police with a blood sample following
a separate drink-driving incident

• While editor of The Spectator, then Tory MP Boris Johnson published an article that said
“blacks have lower IQs”. Another article from around the same time said that Caribbeans were
"multiplying like flies"
5. Mr Johnson apologised in 2008, but no disciplinary action was taken.

• In February 2009, Bolton Conservative councillor Bob Allen posted a picture of a gorilla alongside
a critical comment about an Asian Labour councillor on a blog6. He apologised, the Conservative
Party investigated, but it is not known if any disciplinary action was taken. According to his Twitter
profile, he remains a Tory councillor

• In March 2009, Leicestershire Tory councillor Robert Fraser said that Romanians would "stick a
knife in you as soon as look at you", as well as insulting East Europeans and the Irish, saying
“Some of these European ones, they make the Irish look like complete amateurs and I would
dread, I would dread, to see them in Groby”8
The Tory Party sent him on diversity training, but he was allowed to stand again for the Tories.

• In November 2009, Tory MP for Spelthorne, David Wilshire, said the expose of MPs expenses
left them treated like Jews in Nazi Germany, stating “Branding a whole group of people as
undesirables led to Hitler’s gas chambers”9
David Cameron asked him to apologise.

• In November 2009, Orpington Tory councillor Peter Hobbins, complained that none of the
prospective parliamentary candidates “has a normal English name” – questioning “Why are the
Candidates Department so keen on these foreign names?!!!!”10
He was suspended by the party.

• In January 2010, Tory councillor for Colne, Smith Benson, complained that there were “too many
P***s” in his town. Council Leader Tony Beckett refused to discipline him and said, “I think for
the Labour Party to say he should be sacked for making a sweeping statement is a bit strong.”11

• In January 2011, Baroness Warsi gave a speech about rising Islamophobia. Tory Lord Tebbit wrote
a blog dismissing her case and saying “a period of silence from the Baroness might not come
amiss.”12

• In August 2011, Tory Dover councillor Bob Frost described people involved in the riots as
“jungle bunnies”.
He lost his job as a Maths teacher, but the Conservative Party only suspended him for two months,
readmitting him in November 2011.
13
In 2014, he referred to the prospective Middle Eastern buyers of Dover port as “sons of camel
drivers”14. No disciplinary action was taken and Tory MP Charlie Elphicke defended him, saying
“I think the Labour Party is trying to victimise Cllr Frost.”
In May 2015, Cllr Frost was in trouble again for tweeting that a Big Issue seller should "**** off
back to Romania".
He was suspended pending investigation.
15

• In December 2011, Tory MP for Cannock Chase, Aidan Burley, helped organise a Nazi-themed
stag party.
In June 2012, David Cameron ordered he be sacked from his role as PPS to then Transport
Secretary Justine Greening – and ordered a fuller investigation.
16
Later in 2012, Mr Burley described the London Olympics’ opening ceremony as "leftie
multicultural crap"
17
In 2014 an internal Tory Party inquiry cleared him of any racism or anti-semitism.

• In January 2013, an Enfield Tory councillor Chris Joannides compared Muslim children to black bin
bags in a Facebook post.
He denied being Islamophobic,
18 but was suspended from the party for a year. It is not clear if he
has now been readmitted19, though when cleared from prosecution he thanked the local Tory MP,
David Burrowes, for standing by him.

• In April 2013, Tory councillor for West Sussex, John Cherry, told the Mail on Sunday, "Ninety-seven
per cent of pupils will be black or Asian. It depends what type of Asian. If they're Chinese they'll
rise to the top. If they're Indian they'll rise to the top. If they're ****stani they won't,” and
described Stockwell as “a coloured area”.
21
He resigned his position as a councillor, but there is no indication he faced any sanction from the
Conservative Party.

• In April 2014, a Tory Barnet councillor, Tom Davey, was accused of being not fit for office, after a
Facebook post came to light in which he suggested it might be easier to find a job if he were “a
black female wheelchair-bound amputee who is sexually attracted to other women”.
22
No disciplinary action was taken by the Conservative Party.

• In May 2014, David Bishop, a Tory council candidate in Brentwood, Essex, tweeted "It's good to be
anti-Islam” and called Islam “the religion of peace & rape”.
He resigned from the Conservative Party.

• In May 2014, Tory Coulsdon activist Stephen Lees tweeted “Every single Muslim should be
expelled from this country – not deported – expelled, and every mosque demolished.
23
The Conservative Party denied he was a member.
24 Yet he was apparently a former Secretary of
Coulsdon South Conservatives25

• In August 2014 UCL Conservative Society was under scrutiny for a series of anti-semitic,
Islamophobic and racist remarks, fostering a culture of discrimination and bullying, and creating a
“toxic” environment. One comment included, “Jews own everything, we all know it’s true. I wish I
was Jewish, but my nose isn’t long enough”.
26
In October 2014 after an investigation by UCL Union, the Conservative Society was ordered to
apologise27. There is no evidence that the Conservative Party investigated the incidents.

• In October 2014, Maidenhead Tory councillor Alan Mellins suggested complained about Travellers
and said the solution was to “Execute them.”
He apologised and then later resigned as a councillor over the incident. It is not clear whether the
Conservative Party took any disciplinary action.

• In January 2015, Derek Laud, a former aide to both Margaret Thatcher and John Major, described
the Conservative Party as “essentially racist”. He went on, “They are the ultimate racists because
they deal in stereotypes."
28

• In January 2015, a Conservative councillor for Bishop’s Stortford was accused of anti-semitism for
a tweet and condemned by Tory MP Robert Halfon as “abhorrent” and “unacceptable”.
29
Councillor Colin Woodward apologised and no action was taken by the Conservative Party.

• In April 2015, a Tory candidate for Derby Council, Gulzabeen Afsar, said she would never support
“the Jew” in reference to Ed Miliband.
30
Cllr Afsar apologised, and was later suspended by the Conservative Party.

• In April 2015, a Tory council candidate in Luton, David Coulter, described Travellers as “pikies”
and “thieving troublemakers”.
He was suspended.

• In May 2015, a Tory councillor, Thomas Crockett for Maida Vale in Westminster, compared some
young locals with the Hitler Youth.
He apologised and no disciplinary action was taken.

• In May 2015, Tory councillor for Leicestershire Bob Fahey referred to a fellow councillor
as a “Chink”.
33
This is no record of any disciplinary action and apparently remains a Conservative councillor
34.

• In September 2015, Tory councillor for East Renfrewshire, and former parliamentary candidate
Gordon MacAskill tweeted: "Scenes we'd like to see: the refugees Nicola invites into her house are
Daesh moles”, in response to the Scottish First Minister saying she would take in a Syrian refugee.
35
He was suspended by the Party, but has seemingly been reinstated.

• In October 2015, a Tory councillor in Rugby, Jim Buckley, tweeted re: Sadiq Khan,
“Your next London Mayor? You think his corner shop would be open on a Saturday?”
He was suspended from the Conservative Party, and charged (though not convicted) with
sending an offensive message.

• In December 2015, it was revealed that Oliver Letwin then an adviser to Margaret Thatcher had
made a series of racist remarks following the riots in 1985, describing black people as having
“bad moral attitudes”, and saying schemes to help black people would be spent in “the disco and
drugs trade” and employment programmes would only see black people “graduate … into
unemployment and crime”.
37
The Conservative Party took no disciplinary action and Mr Letwin remains a government minister.

• On 27 January 2016, Prime Minister David Cameron described refugees fleeing Syria and other
conflicts as “a bunch of migrants”38. He has previously spoken of a “swarm of people coming
across the Mediterranean”39
He has yet to apologise for either comment.

• In February 2016, Glasgow Tory councillor David Meikle accused the SNP of anti-semitism for
opposing the Israeli occupation of Palestinian land.
40
He later apologised and withdrew his comments

• Matthew Sephton41, Tory councillor in Altrincham, tweeted on 31 January 2016 a leaflet that read:
“Tired of your job? Sick of working 40 hours or more each week just to feed your family? Would
you like to relax all day and still have all the benefits of a full time job? If you answered yes to
any of these questions, then you should consider moving to England, The Welfare Country.”
In September 2015, he was accused of posting “vile” and “disgusting” comments on Facebook,
including “they should be transported directly back” and ”Refugees in ‘angry stand-off with
police’ in #Hungary? What on earth do they think they're doing?! They’re guests, not there by
any right!"
42
No action was taken for either incident, and he remains Chair of Greater Manchester
Conservatives

• In March 2016, the deputy provost of South Ayrshire Council, Tory councillor Mary Kilpatrick
backed attacks on fasting during Ramadan and calls to outlaw Muslim veils.
She apologised, but the Conservative Party merely issued a reminder to all its elected
representatives and candidates over online behaviour. 44

• Boris Johnson, Tory MP and current Mayor of London, wrote in an article for The Sun in April 2016,
that asserted that US president Barack Obama had an “ancestral dislike” of Britain, and described
him as “part-Kenyan”.
He was criticised by Tory MP Nicolas Soames45 as “appalling” and ”totally wrong”, but backed by
Nigel Farage. No disciplinary action was taken or investigation launched.

• In April 2016, former Tory parliamentary candidate Shazia Awan wrote of Zac Goldsmith’s mayoral
campaign, “one cannot forgive a collection of divisive literature and rhetoric within this negative
campaign”, adding “if the current mayoral campaign is anything to go by, there is a very real
danger that it will drag the party back to the prejudice, intolerance and ignorance of 50 years
ago.”46

• In April 2016, Fareham Tory councillor David Whittingham mimicked foreign accents, said he
didn’t want foreigners living in his road and made comments and behaviour that were “racist in
nature”.
47
He was kicked out of the Conservative Party in April 2016.

• In April 2016, the deputy chairman of Bradford Conservative Association, Abdul Zaman, made
inappropriate comments about Jews and women while speaking at a launch event for the local
election campaign.
49
He was suspended.

• In April 2016, Tory peer Baroness Warsi wrote, in relation to the London mayoral campaign of
Zac Goldsmith, “the right needs to weed out its Islamophobes ... Dog-whistle nasty politics is
damaging the UK”50

• In April 2016, lifelong Tory voter and Daily Mail columnist Peter Oborne wrote, “Goldsmith's
campaign for mayor has become the most repulsive I have ever seen

Perfect, you've proved that the lefties repeatedly take offence at a whole multitude of fairly innocuous things and jump up and down demanding apologies for the latest 'ism' that the Tories have committed.

Double standards or what!

From buster bloodvessel's description, I would imagine that voicing "non deriguer" opinions at that meeting would have been like facing down The Donald at one of his performances.

Only more dangerous...

Right from the word go there was the assumption that everyone present was an evangelical believer. I couldn't quite make my mind up whether that was naïveté, or just total arrogance, given that they then launched straight into the details of their agenda of how they are going to go about unseating who and when, and how they'll do it.

I concluded it must be the latter as I doubt you get many dissenting voices in the Islington echo chamber. None, in fact. No time for that in this brave new world.

I mean, if that kind of information were to be fed directly back to the constituency party, complete with names and timescales by someone or other, as soon as they walked out of there, as they strolled down to the pub for a well needed pint.....

That'd be terrible. treachery even 😉

Well, Momentum is directly descended from the 'Support Jeremy Corbyn' campaign, so it's not a totally unreasonable assumption that most people motivated enough to trudge along would be in the fan club.

And on reflection, given that you don't have a sitting Labour MP, again I suppose it's not unreasonable for the JC fan club to want the next candidate to be a supporter. The previous candidate has to be reselected for the next general election, presumably.

So it's not a question of unseating, just musical chairs.

It's when this lot start turning up with the same lines at constituency party meetings that the fun really starts.

Kimbers I don't contest any if the issues identified on that list and no doubt a lot worse is done "behind the lines" my and I think others concern is the fact that Corbyn/Brexit/Momentum are handing the type of people on that list virtually unopposed political power for the foreseeable future which they can effortlessly maintain by keeping the middle class (perceived and actual) pensioners and the right wing (read UKIP and Northern Working Class) happy - they will leave Scotland to the SNP. Corbyn people continually talk of winning elections as not important, John Dilenger (American Gangster) once said you can get a long way with a kind words but you can get a lot further with a kind words and a gun "Corbyn got no gun" Theresa May (like Thatcher) has all the guns"

I would still be interested in knowing what town it was, specially as they have set up Momentum so late in the day. What have they been doing the last 12 months, never mind the last 2 months - haven't they been following the news ffs ?

it's a northern mill town with people still working in factories

so a bit different to Croydon or Islington

The Labour Candidate was better than his predecessor who was parachuted in and her predecessor who was David Chaytor.

The Communist Party of Great Britain hasn't fielded a candidate for as long as I can remember

And on reflection, given that you don't have a sitting Labour MP, again I suppose it's not unreasonable for the JC fan club to want the next candidate to be a supporter.

Indeed. But what this does in underline the fact that they've no desire (and no clue how) to win elections. Its a key marginal constituency that was decided by a handful of votes. The sitting Tory is your full on Hang 'em and flog 'em, rabidly anti-EU right wing nut job, who seems to be increasingly pissing off even the Tories, he's that insane. The idea that what the seat needs for victory is the present centre ground candidate booting out, and some screaming lefty installed instead is absolute madness!

So confirming that actually winning seats that would swing you a parliamentary majority isn't even on their radar. They must know there isn't a cat in hells chance of some screaming lefty getting elected round here

I bet Theresa can't believe her bloody luck. All this shit is the greatest gift ever

it's a northern mill town with people still working in factories

It's a rather well to do town for middle class people who commute to Manchester.

Its both. Depending on whereabouts in the constituency you are. Some times you even get both right next to each other.

Mad eh?

I'll get out there and have a word with people and ask if we can be pigeon-holed more neatly?

Its both. Depending on whereabouts in the constituency you are. Some times you even get both right next to each other.

The meeting was in Ramsbottom, I believe. I moved there in 1984, it certainly had a very different character back then.

Its both. Depending on whereabouts in the constituency you are

funnily enough, a lot like Islington then 😉

/threadhijack

The meeting was in Ramsbottom, I believe. I moved there in 1984, it certainly had a very different character back then.

Don't worry, Binners. I understand your constituency is now profiled as 'hostile'.