Jeremy Corbyn

COMMIE

"What's wrong with refusing to sing the national anthem?"

As long as you're not a politician nothing.

If you're a politician its considered a vote loser.

It sure is a vote-winner Clohopper! That's for sure! They love that shit in marginal constituencies in the South East! Lap
It up, they do!

Whooping 'GO JEZZA!!!!!' as he stands there with a face like a smacked arse, looking like a surly teenager.

At least Venezuela has some evidence of significant wealth redistribution. Mainly to Maria Gabriela Chavez, but still...

I'm sure the next socialist proto-utopia will be along shortly.

they are all correct it a shit national anthem about a head i don't want nor respect and a god i don't believe it to protect them. And wirse its a shit shit tune.
i dont sign it ever.
However as a politician its just a vote loser

His I wont sign it ok I will showed he was naive at best , weak or inept at worst

He needs to say something like "the queen is a fabulous woman who I admire very much but I believe in a republic. I realise my view is in the minority but I feel in our open democracy there is no need for me to pretend to have views I don't just to fit in"

the queen is a fabulous woman who I admire very much

If he's going to lie to that extent he might as well just mouth the words of the anthem. Would be less hassle.

"the queen is a unscrupulous woman who I'd like to set fire to very much"

I'm sure he could do better than me (well not 100% sure). I just think he should have stated his position and shut the debate down. Being in favour of a republic is fine. People don't care (just don't diss Queeny)

I liked hearing Brian Moore talk about the national anthem. Slightly angry:

"its just not very good is it? The words, the tune- compare it to the Welsh one. Why cant we replace it?"

And in news of the latest triumph for the Momentum Party...

[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-election-vote-poll-yougov-prime-minister-a7157561.html ]Revolution![/url]

The YouGov poll for the Times

So, that's going to be completely unbiased and neutral! 😆

Why, whats your problem with YouGov?

I should think so. These polls usually are.

Viz: https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/05/17/labour-members-increasingly-bullish-on-corbyn/

Although I do realise that for belief in a Labour victory, you need to clutch at any available bit of what looks to you like a passing straw...

"Why, whats your problem with YouGov?"

Not much, although they've been a bit out on recent UK polls, but more with a Murdoch-owned newspaper.

Plus:

http://uk.businessinsider.com/yougovs-polling-methods-were-flawed-2016-5

"Why, whats your problem with YouGov?"

People have had enough of experts! 🙂

I'm still reeling from the news that Binners is a fat, bald bloke! Its completely destroyed my vision of him! I thought he looked something like this:

[img] [/img]

How can he look like that when he spends all his tme on here, and can't possibly have any time for exercise? 😆

Maybe we should have a thread for guessing what people look like? Could be interesting! 😕

@rock cat is out of the bag as we've had regular photos of yourself threads

ernie as far as I am aware you can't vote for a Tory leader by paying just £3 or £5. I called it a fiasco as I think it was and is still being widely abused by people who don't actually support the Labour Party in the broadest sense.

Polls: as I have said a few times - they are bollix. So easy to manipulate via how you ask the question and then even more so how you "adjust" the results plus they ask so few people, often as few as 1,000

Owen Smith said today he wanted the UK to be the world leader for workers rights. He might want to have a word with the French who are scaling back workers rights to deal with 25% youth and 10% general unemployment

@rockape is out of the bag as we've had regular photos of yourself threads

Ah yes just found the one of Binners:

[img] [/img]

Mr Woppit - Member

Viz: https://yougov.co.uk/news/ [b]2016/05/17/[/b]labour-members-increasingly-bullish-on-corbyn/

Although I do realise that for belief in a Labour victory, you need to clutch at any available bit of what looks to you like a passing straw...

😆

Durrrrrr

Have you noticed the date ? I have put it bold to help you.

Here's some more poll findings :

[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-overtakes-david-cameron-in-leadership-satisfaction-ratings-a6950456.html ]Jeremy Corbyn overtakes David Cameron in leadership satisfaction ratings[/url]

[i]"The Ipsos MORI poll showed Mr Corbyn up ten points and David Cameron down ten points after last week's Budget"[/i]

[url= http://www.****/news/article-3498486/Jeremy-Corbyn-s-Labour-LEAD-opinion-polls-Tory-wars-Europe-toll-David-Cameron-s-party.html ]Jeremy Corbyn's Labour take a LEAD in the opinion polls as Tory wars over Europe take a toll on David Cameron's party[/url]

It's only been about couple of months since Labour equaled or led the Tories and Woppit already wants to re-write history Joseph Stalin style!

So what do you think has happened in the last month Woppit?

Do you think that Labour MPs spending a month going on strike and refusing to fight the Tories and instead with the help of the media intensely attacking the Labour leader might have had an affect, or is it all just one big coincidence ?

You claim sarcastically [i]"And in news of the latest triumph for the Momentum Party"[/i] but of course we all know that this a huge triumph for the Blairites who have been waiting for nearly a year for bad headlines. When none came they lost their patience and decided to go on the rampage vandelising Labour's electoral chances as much as possible.

This was the situation last month in June when the plotters decided to move :

[b]Ipsos MORI’s monthly political monitor has a much closer race than ICM’s last poll. Topline figures are CON 36%, LAB 35%, LDEM 11%, UKIP 8%, GRN 4% [/b]

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/page/2

And you want to blame Momentum for the sudden drop in support for Labour in the last month. You really are a muppet.

i don't sign it ever.

"its just not very good is it? The words, the tune- compare it to the Welsh one. Why cant we replace it?"

The trouble with Corbyn is he stands for traditional labour values whilst the MP's stand for Blairite values

Not very Blairite at all

Yep, we should absolutely believe what the ex PR chief for sleazy big pharma tells us.

"Is that you, Alastair?"

Durrrrrr

Have you noticed the date ? I have put it bo

I suppose you missed my post where I offered evidence of a Yougov poll favourable to Labour, as a reply to a post from someone else which claimed right-wing bias in the Yougov polling method.

Which was the whole point. Which you missed. Again.

Never mind, Jeremy's New Improved Cleaned Up Party will never win power in the UK despite your valiant attempts at bolstering it's position with willfully obscurantist rants...

Yep, we should absolutely believe what the ex PR chief for sleazy big pharma tells us.

Well he reckons we should be 'smashing Theresa May back on her heels'. I have no idea what that means but it sounds rather violent and possibly sexual.

I think he should probably keep that sort of talk to when he's down the pub with his mates.

I quite liked Frankie Boyle comment with regards to Owen Smith :

[i]“Owen Smith was head of policy for Pfizer, but despite his best efforts there still aren't enough drugs in the world to make his election seem like a good idea. Smith looks like his most radical policy will be not wearing a tie to the park.”[/i]

So, a competition between a sexist bully and a divisive puritan as to who will lead their party into the next glorious defeat.

Well he reckons we should be 'smashing Theresa May back on her heels'. I have no idea what that means but it sounds rather violent and possibly sexual.

You'd think that a supposed PR guru would know better...

Mr Woppit - Member

So, a competition between a sexist bully

Ah, and so it begins. His choice of words was rubbish but what's sexist about it? For that matter, what's bullying about it?

It's been fun watching people who've maintained Corbyn is too far to the left seamlessly get behind Smith, now we get to see the other side of the coin, people who've dedicated their efforts to blaming Corbyn for the sinking of the Titanic and everything since getting ready to do the same for Smith, and retargetting their "reinterpret everything he says" lasers.

I disagree and find it heartening to see the RW on here suddenly becoming all bleeding heart liberal hair trigger offended on behalf of others types as I believe they call us.
Its deffo a genuine conversion and not at all about putting your politics before relaity

I do find all tho kitten heels stuff a bit tiresome.

It's been fun watching people who've maintained Corbyn is too far to the left seamlessly get behind Smith, now we get to see the other side of the coin, people who've dedicated their efforts to blaming Corbyn for the sinking of the Titanic and everything since getting ready to do the same for Smith, and retargetting their "reinterpret everything he says" lasers.

I don't think Owen Smith will be targeted in the same way Jeremy Corbyn has been.

Smith used Orgreave for his speech - Corbyn would have been castigated for that, Smith pledged a wealth tax on top earners - Corbyn would have been denounced for that, Smith spoke of the need for a [i]"cold-eyed, practical, socialist revolution"[/i] - Corbyn would have been vilified for that.

I expect Owen Smith to get a very easy ride in the media compared to Corbyn.

So what's the difference, is Smith less left-wing than Corbyn? Apparently not, he wants us to think that he is as least as left-wing as Corbyn if not more so.

Is the man who likes to talk about the need for a 'socialist revolution' and to tax the rich, when he isn't talking about smashing Theresa May back on her heels, more likely to win a general election than Corbyn? Probably not.

So what's the appeal of Smith over Corbyn ? Well for a start unlike Corbyn he is probably easy to manipulate. Secondly everyone knows that Corbyn is a conviction politician not a career politician, even his opponents like Hilary Benn describe him as 'decent and honest, they know that he means what he says.

In contrast while no one knows much about Smith they assume that he is just like most other Labour politicians, ie, a careerist who will say anything to get elected.

They don't actually believe what Smith says, and why should they? With Corbyn however they know that he isn't interested in spin or saying whatever he needs to say to get a few extra votes. Which is of course the reason why some people don't like him and precisely the reason why some do.

The big difference between Owen Smith and Jeremy Corbyn is integrity.

"Well he reckons we should be 'smashing Theresa May back on her heels'. I have no idea what that means but it sounds rather violent and possibly sexual."

R5 reckon its an everyday term in the world of Rugby. If so I can't see the problem.

20 costed policies! Fantastic.

"So what's the appeal of Smith over Corbyn ?"

That he'll resign and hand the job to a potential GE winner.

"The big difference between Owen Smith and Jeremy Corbyn is integrity."

The big difference is that Smith has policies.

And if you pay him enough, he has others.

That he'll resign and hand the job to a potential GE winner.

So the appeal of Owen Smith is that he will get someone else to do the job which no one thinks he can do ?

That's an interesting theory.

However a Labour leader can't simply 'hand over' their job to whoever they fancy when they don't want to do it anymore.

And in case you haven't noticed the Labour Party is changing. I believe that there is a proposition to amend the rules at this coming conference to reduce the candidate nomination threshold to 5%. Also there will be NEC elections in which the old Blairites, still living in the 1980s and 90s, will almost certainly lose their grip even further.

ernie_lynch - Member

I expect Owen Smith to get a very easy ride in the media compared to Corbyn.

Unless he wins.

If he wins I expect him to get the same sort of treatment as Gordon Brown and Ed Miliband got.

In contrast the treatment that Corbyn is presently receiving represents just the warmup to what has yet to come as the next GE approaches. It's not even the dressed rehearsal imo.

Ernie a serious non troll question, assuming the Labour Party morphs into this new fundamentalist socialist organisation how do you think they will win a general election I. E. How will it gain sufficient seats to form a government? As a minority opposition you have no power to change anything (even UKIP will vote in support of right wing agendas)

The big difference between Owen Smith and Jeremy Corbyn is integrity.

And there is the biggest lie of the whole Corbyn phenomenon, he doesn't have integrity he is to quote someone who was a member of labour rather than the Communist Party of Great Britain

Jeremy Corbyn is not a nice or decent man. He is a coward. He is a hypocrite. He is a bully. And he is a fraud.

All those fans who ignore the messaging that he uses and keep banging on about the semantics of what he sayes and does, and as importantly what he doesn't say or do will one day have their Kronstadt moment

I think Smith means the Labour Party should be strong enough to be attacking the Tories and not stressing itself out about dissapearing into irrelevance.

As for policies apart from Leaving the European Union and not renewing Trident I am not aware of Corbyn actually having any. Perhaps that will be one good thing to come out of the election, a chance to hear more than just campaign slogans

"However a Labour leader can't simply 'hand over' their job to whoever they fancy when they don't want to do it anymore."

Gordon Brown.

Labour MPs have learned their lesson, in the unlikely event Labour survives as a mainstream party the MPs will be a lot more careful about who they nominate in future.

"I believe that there is a proposition to amend the rules at this coming conference to reduce the candidate nomination threshold to 5%"

LOL, how could that possibly go wrong! Nothing like learning from your mistakes.

big_n_daft - Member

The big difference between Owen Smith and Jeremy Corbyn is integrity.

And there is the biggest lie of the whole Corbyn phenomenon, he doesn't have integrity he is to quote someone who was a member of labour rather than the Communist Party of Great Britain

Jeremy Corbyn is not a nice or decent man. He is a coward. He is a hypocrite. He is a bully. And he is a fraud.

All those fans who ignore the messaging that he uses and keep banging on about the semantics of what he sayes and does, and as importantly what he doesn't say or do will one day have their Kronstadt moment
Posted 11 minutes ago

Well if a right-wing columnist who describes himself as “tribal neo-Blairite” writing in the Daily Mail says that, then that settles it.

Who are you going to believe - me or the Daily Mail ?

Well if a right-wing columnist who describes himself as “tribal neo-Blairite”

Next GE forecast
Tories 345
Labour 185 (optomistic)
UKIP 30
SNP 50
Lib dems 15

outofbreath - Member

"However a Labour leader can't simply 'hand over' their job to whoever they fancy when they don't want to do it anymore."

Gordon Brown.

Labour MPs have learned their lesson, in the unlikely event Labour survives as a mainstream party the MPs will be a lot more careful about who they nominate in future.

"I believe that there is a proposition to amend the rules at this coming conference to reduce the candidate nomination threshold to 5%"

LOL, how could that possibly go wrong! Nothing like learning from your mistakes.
Posted 3 minutes ago # Report-Post

Oh OK outofbreath, the membership which gave Corbyn the largest mandate in Labour Party history will allow Owen Smith to simply handover the leadership to a mysterious "potential GE winner". Dream on mate, you obviously still haven't figured out the significance of Corbyn winning last September. Presumably you think it was a fluke that he won more votes than all the other candidates put together, and that an arch-Blairite like David Miliband will be welcomed with open arms.

oldmanmtb - Member
Ernie a serious non troll question, assuming the Labour Party morphs into this new fundamentalist socialist organisation how do you think they will win a general election I. E. How will it gain sufficient seats to form a government?

Good luck with that one, oldman. ernie doesn't like that question, he's too concerned with the goings on in the senior dorm where all the junior wevolutionaries are on the point of chucking out those wotten pwefects.

Next GE forecast

Tories 345
Labour 15 (optimistic)
I can't believe it's not new labour 170
UKIP 30
SNP 50
Lib dems 15

he's too concerned with the goings on in the senior dorm where all the junior wevolutionaries are on the point of chucking out those wotten pwefects.

And right there you reveal why I ignore your questions.

Good luck with that one, oldman. ernie doesn't like that question, he's too concerned with the goings on in the senior dorm where all the junior wevolutionaries are on the point of chucking out those wotten pwefects.

No, he is sat in a dingy pub in Croydon nursing a pint he can't stand the taste of desperate for a decent prosecco, discussing the success of the Corbyn phenomenon with his fellow travellers relieved that the internecine warfare between the Trot's, Maoist, Leninists etc is over and they can rejoice whilst checking their privilege and sneering at the newbies. They sometimes stretch to a second pint when they start to talk about revival of the CPGB to it's heady heights whenever they happened

Yay bullying, you Tories are more left wing than I thought!

assuming the Labour Party morphs into this new fundamentalist socialist organisation how do you think they will win a general election

At best it will GAS and focus a bit more on social justice and move a little to the left- I dont think he will be overthrowing the monarchy, nationalising everything and handing power to worker collectives.
I may as well call Theresa May a proto fascist it just ludicrous. By all means dislike Corbyn but FFS actually accurately describe what he stands for instead of making shit up.

If you must attack ernie do you have to draw such stupid tabloid caricatures whilst doing it?

Jesus this thread. Its essentially throwing insults masquerading as a debate.

So here's Owen Smith's 20 policies:

http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_5798849de4b06d7c426e0a8d

Wonder what the minimum legal contract hours will be? 1hr per week? 10? 37?

Ignore them comrades, they're just being horrid.

And right there you reveal why I ignore your questions.

But keep replying to my posts.

And of course it's just "question". Singular. By me and others. Which you obviously have no answer to because it's much easier to go on wiffling about the internal self mutilations of the dying Labour Party. Isn't it. ernie.

[img] [/img]

[url= https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/jul/27/uk-joins-greece-at-bottom-of-wage-growth-league-tuc-oecd ]Meanwhile: in other news the Corbyn front bench has either missed, or haven't bothered commenting on[/url]

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/08/labour-jeremy-corbyn-and-the-search-for-the-partys-henry-vii ]Media bias letter to Guardian[/url]

A letter to the Guardian about media bias against Corbyn. Signed by 100ish university bods (second letter down)

@binners: FWIW IMO it's better to play the ball, not the man.

[quote=outofbreath ]@binners: FWIW IMO it's better to play the ball, not the man.

See also "jambabollocks" "artwork".

@binners its been a straightforward choice these past 7 years, more jobs at lower wages or more unemployment. Would the TUC like French and Spanish levels of unemployment. You'll find me argue that unlimited EU freedom of movement has depressed wages too, with a relatively strong economy, English language and non-contributory benefits (unlike France and Germany where you have to pay in first to get out) all all strong pull factors.

@crk if people on the political "further left" actually bought a few newspapers perhaps there would be one which supported Corbyn. As it is the Guardian which is the closest we have understands you have to be elected and electable to achieve anything

"See also "jambabollocks" "artwork"."

I reckon the personal bullying Jamba is subjected to is utterly out of order and the excuses people make for it (he likes it really/he deserves it) are the text book excuses of the bully.

I wouldn't necessarily disagree with you Jammers. I'm just raising the point that you'd think news like that, which was front page on todays Guardian, might be something the Labour Party (clue's in the title) might have something to say about.

Apparently not.

Again

This 'kindler' gentler' form of politics, looks to me increasingly like being totally disengaged from whats happening around you. Still... there will be another Momentum rally to address along soon. So you can pontificate about unilateral nuclear disarmament in the common room, surrounded by nodding dogs

Mr Woppit - Member

"And right there you reveal why I ignore your questions".

But keep replying to my posts.

I reply to your posts if I feel like replying. I won't answer your 'questions' simply because you demand that I do. I choose what I post - not you. It's not complicated.

So Owen Smith stumbles at the first hurdle - his much publicized Orgreave launch :

[url= http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14646152.Owen_Smith_apologises_for__inappropriate__claim_Labour_should__smash__Theresa_May__back_on_her_heels_/ ]Owen Smith apologises for 'inappropriate' claim Labour should 'smash' Theresa May 'back on her heels'[/url]

I particularly liked this :

[i][b] Hours later Mr Smith backtracked, with his spokesman stating: "It was off script and on reflection it was an inappropriate choice of phrase and he apologises for using it."

The former shadow work and pensions secretary earlier vowed to end austerity as part of a "socialist revolution", with a new wealth tax on the rich and increased spending on the NHS. [/i][/b]

Backtracking and talk of a "socialist revolution" all in one day.

So, I think what we're saying then is that the Tories will be winning the next GE then.

An apology for inappropriate langauge, already differentiating himself from Corbyn who is so stubborn he never apolgises for anything no matter how offensive.

Nobody answered my question .... how are the old new labour actually going to motivate enough grass roots support to win an election. Not complicated....

I think it's like Brexit no *ing plan no *ing idea let's just moan.... bearing in mind this comes from me a life long socialist trade union member, piss poor working class origins not your middle ground or Tory *wit
I am watching the Tory party laying out its policy to dismantle the human rights of this country's poor and you momentum/Corbynites are fiddling while Rome burns - crack on folks your *ed

what's your alternative then oldman?
what are your suggestions for steering the opposition onto a better course?

I'm not convinced that sitting there moaning and farting like you and binners is gonna get anybody anywhere

I think you may have to let this run its course. This may well include a devastating 2020 defeat.

So, I think what we're saying then is that the Tories will be winning the next GE then.

No one can predict what will happen in 4 years time, after all who predicted a month ago that the Blairites would launch a coup doomed to failure with no plan and not even a candidate with any chance of winning ?

But yes, if there was a general election next week I don't think that you need to be an exceptional political pundit to figure out that the Tories would easily win. So well done the PLP.

Still, I'm sure that Tony Blair is quite pleased with that. Corbyn becoming PM is his worse nightmare.

We'll have to wait and see what happens next.

Oldman I think you know the answer. The Labour party is now fundamentally and ideologically split. I don't think for one minute that actually winning an election is even high on Corbyns agenda if it ever was. It seems to me that they would be quite happy entrenching their position and using that platform to quite rightly complain about the nasty Tories and how bad things are and will get without ever being in any position to have to put any of their ideas and solutions to the test. They would sh!t themselves if they got elected. Which ever party is in power needs a strong opposition to bring the goverment to account. On current form that is not going to happen.

You'll find me argue that unlimited EU freedom of movement has depressed wages too,

Nobody answered my question .... how are the old new labour actually going to motivate enough grass roots support to win an election. Not complicated....

The SDP did quite well initially, the problem the current Labour PLP has is that the alternative leaders are all 10 years from wanting to step up and even then won't have the gravitas of the "gang of four". Without decent leadership no one will follow (although Corbyn is the exception that proves the rule)

And to follow up my above comment here is a reminder what the situation was before the PLP mounted this attempted coup :

[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/new-poll-puts-labour-ahead-of-tories-for-first-time-since-jeremy-corbyn-became-leader-a6937926.html ]New poll puts Labour ahead of Tories for first time since Jeremy Corbyn became leader[/url]

[url= http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/election-results-2016-tories-lose-7923335 ]Election results 2016: Tories lose four times more council seats than Labour as final votes are announced [/url]

[i][b]"And the Tories lost a further 10 seats in by-elections which did not feature in the overall count".

"Labour also won the Bristol mayoral election by a landslide on Saturday after coming from behind to oust independent George Ferguson".[/i][/b]

Plus of course they had won all the by-elections, all with increased majorities iirc.

There was a poll in one of the papers today can't remember which one but a fair percentage of labour voters would rather vote for Theresa May than Corbyn. The gap is widening. If May makes a fare stab of Brexit I can't see Labour getting back in for 10 yrs.

But yes, if there was a general election next week I don't think that you need to be an exceptional political pundit to figure out that the Tories would easily win. So well done the PLP.

Still, I'm sure that Tony Blair is quite pleased with that. Corbyn becoming PM is his worse nightmare.

And there we have the narrative from the Croydon Communist and his fellow travellers already setting the scene for why they were robbed of power

Love the mention of the bogey man for added fizz

The eurozone is going to have a major crises sometime before 2020. As such Brexit is going to look absolutely Golden. Tory landslide in 2020. What"s likely thereafter is the UK strategy of refocusing globally and away from Europe is going to look better and better. Hence another win in 2025. Beyond there hard to tell, all guesswork. So Labour may have a shot in 2030